Aura of Courage not using Pally's hitpoints for calculation.

patcherrkm · September 2017

It states - "You and allies within 30' of you deal 1% of your Maximum Hit Points as bonus damage."

It currently uses each group members hitpoints instead of just the pallys hitpoints to calculate damage. Fix please?

Unknown · September 2017

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patcherrkm · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
Ya, it also scales in absurd ways. The Lostmauth set was nerfed for this type of scaling.

Can you elaborate on ways it scales?

Unknown · September 2017

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mamalion1234 · September 2017

patcherrkm said:
It states - "You and allies within 30' of you deal 1% of your Maximum Hit Points as bonus damage."

It currently uses each group members hitpoints instead of just the pallys hitpoints to calculate damage. Fix please?

Word your is either for many or for one person.

You and allies ( paladin and allies ) within 30' of you ( paladin ) deal 1% of your ( paladin and allies) maximum hit points as bonus damage.

below my source for " your " because english is not my native.

https://www.google.gr/search?rlz=1C1ASRM_enGR730GR730&q=your++means=&oq=your++means=&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i10i30k1j0i22i30k1l3.2894.5523.0.6237.12.10.0.0.0.0.113.901.5j4.9.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..4.8.809...0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i10k1.Xo0gZf8wtFQ

niadan · September 2017

Wotking as intended...except we (non pallys) are only getting .9% not a full 1%.

mamalion1234 · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
Ya, it also scales in absurd ways. The Lostmauth set was nerfed for this type of scaling.

You can compare the exactly same things : weapon enchants are like the old lostmauth they can critical aura of courage cannot critical.

dupeks · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
Ya, it also scales in absurd ways. The Lostmauth set was nerfed for this type of scaling.

Lostmauth was nerfed because it was the only viable option for literally every dps class, and designing new sets was going to be difficult without exacerbating the power creep even further.

You know, kind of like they are doing with bondings now.

Saying that is the same thing applies for a feat on a class is misleading at best, although it does bring up a good question. How much damage contribution from support classes is appropriate, and how varied can the sources of damage contribution be?

Should the role of support classes only be to soak damage and heal the damage dealers?

Unknown · September 2017

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niadan · September 2017

Addressing the OP's question...using player's HP IS WAI. And is not a bug. The .9% instead of the 1% is probably a bug.

dupeks · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
No, it is not WAI. When a power from an OP in your group does more damage than your own powers, something is wrong. The ACT that mamal posted the other day was just like, wow.

I always have a hard time understanding how exactly you determine what is "WAI" or not.

Do you understand that almost all damaging powers scale exactly how AoC scales? The only difference is that AoC doesn't crit, and the base number (somewhere in the couple thousand range) is based on your HP.

So in the situation where AoC is doing massive damage, literally any damaging power would do comparable damage. Insisting otherwise is nonsense. And you can definitely create artificial situations that try to demonstrate some absurd claim, but that doesn't make the claim true.

But all of that aside, please go back to my original question: how much damage contribution should a support class contribute to a party (via buffs or other mechanics)?

Because if you decide that everything is not WAI as soon as you see a big number associated with it, then literally every support mechanic is overpowered and we should all just play damage dealing classes to avoid being nasty exploiters.

Unknown · September 2017

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niadan · September 2017

Nope...sounds ok with me. More power (HP) to them.

dupeks · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
You literally have DPS players switching to full HP builds to abuse AoC. And, some even theorycrafting using augments with Empowered Runestones. That does not make you think that something is wrong?

Sounds creative to me.

Sounds like a game that has multiple viable builds for support classes, and encourages understanding class synergies in high end parties to utilize combat mechanics interactions to maximum effect.

I don't want a game that encourages "I do me" mentality. I don't want a game where I don't have to think about other party members because my optimal build and play style are completely independent of the other folks I'm running with.

Changing your builds to synergize with support characters? Changing depending on the type of situation / classes your running with?

Sounds excellent to me.

Unknown · September 2017

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dupeks · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
No, I am quite sure it is supposed to be set to the OPs HP, and that it is not supposed to scale with everything. We will see.

We will see indeed hahah.

So any chance you'll venture an answer to my question? What is the appropriate damage contribution for support classes in a party? Is it fair to assume you'd prefer it to be close to 0?

Unknown · September 2017

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mamalion1234 · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
No, I am quite sure it is supposed to be set to the OPs HP, and that it is not supposed to scale with everything. We will see.

as dupeks said everything is scaling do not look only to aura of courage. Did you know that with a lot buffs the 20% from the unstopable on encounters is much higher than 20% ? That dont worry you because you cant see the buff contribution make it more than 20%. Aura of courage in other hand because you see it it has to be a bug?:)

mamalion1234 · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
You literally have DPS players switching to full HP builds to abuse AoC. And, some even theorycrafting using augments with Empowered Runestones. That does not make you think that something is wrong?

AND what you prefer to be from paladin hP? fine fine so i can use other enchantments on defence slot to boost my power with assasins covenant because will not matter what is my hp.

You describe it like paladins have 50k hp and the other classes abusing it go 300k+

Unknown · September 2017

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dupeks · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
No, I would like TR and GWF to give damage to the party as well. It is not up to me to decide how much damage classes should give to each other. But, not enough, as it is currently, where Tier 3 bosses die in a few seconds.

You say it's not up to you to decide, yet you frequently claim support mechanics are not Working As Intended because they do too much damage. So clearly you do decide something (i.e. an opinion). I'm trying to ask you to be more specific with your answer, so that I understand where you're coming from.

So that's exactly what I'm asking: what is your opinion about how much damage should a typical support character provide to a party (via combination of buffs, debuffs, mechanics, etc.)?

beckylunatic · September 2017

defiantone99 said:
No, I am quite sure it is supposed to be set to the OPs HP, and that it is not supposed to scale with everything. We will see.

The tooltip suggests it should scale from the OP's hitpoints. With high-end paladins, you realize this would contribute MORE damage to the party? Speed melt groups aren't the ones taking some newbie OP with 50k HP. You're inventing a problem there.

The changes Into the Fray has gone through made it so that now any GF, lowbie or BiS, contributes exactly the same to any group (from ItF specifically). DO DC Terrifying Insight provides a flat buff at any gear level. AC DC is much more dependent on the character's item level. Right now, it makes sense for an OP to invest in their own HP for their own sake anyway, but a lowbie can contribute something (but may still fall down in their tanking duties depending on gear and skill). I think there are arguments for both sides, where it's nice that any support character can contribute to a group, but also that support characters that have been lovingly ranked up can contribute even more.

niadan · September 2017

I run a high HP CW build, and would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE for AOC to be based on OP's HP and not mine. Until that happens, c'est la vie.

jameswesten · September 2017

I agree with you, cause why can tanks and dps not run an instance. It's always the same question: We need a Dc. Always. And Dev OP is still not an adequat alternative, because nobody needs as much healing as an OP can apply on it's party members. I think there should be an alternative damage or power buff through anyother Class (for example Dev OP hp build with AoC
or more debuff through CW MoF). Than imho it's singing in the long run that everytime ppl want to run something they have to get an Cleric. It simply can not be that everyone's individual times when something is to be run 6 different classes have to want until a Cleric takes pity. Wanna have AoC based on OP'S HP and empowered runestone to be 80000 hp at rank 14. So i can offer an alternative.

micky1p00 · September 2017

mamalion1234 said:

defiantone99 said:
No, I am quite sure it is supposed to be set to the OPs HP, and that it is not supposed to scale with everything. We will see.
as dupeks said everything is scaling do not look only to aura of courage. Did you know that with a lot buffs the 20% from the unstopable on encounters is much higher than 20% ? That dont worry you because you cant see the buff contribution make it more than 20%. Aura of courage in other hand because you see it it has to be a bug?:)

hmmm.... om.... hm.... 20% is still 20% no matter what buff, debuff, or even if Arnie Schwarzenegger himself would have been bashing. Well, perhaps not with Arnie, he can bash Math into submission, but for the rest of us mortals, 20% is still 20%.

If I'm saying that I'm taking half of your salary as 'protection' fee, and your boss decided to pay you double, I'm still taking half. You don't multiply one by the other and say "I'm taxed 100% now". That's simply incorrect.

pegasusx1 · September 2017

I run on xbox 1, AoC on my pally at 350k HP, gives a little over 6000 bonus radiant damage, I also run AoW in combo for the 35% dmg buff. I get the point of "whats too much for a support"? Well, that would also entail how much is too much control? CW's steal time, icy terrain? The entire trapper tree from the HR. Smoke bomb from a TR running a saboteur high recovery build. I can go on for days, I main a pally never had a complaint for buffs on either my Dev or Pro. It procs as intended off the pallys HP atleast for the XB1.

beckylunatic · September 2017

pegasusx1 said:
I run on xbox 1, AoC on my pally at 350k HP, gives a little over 6000 bonus radiant damage, I also run AoW in combo for the 35% dmg buff.... I main a pally never had a complaint for buffs on either my Dev or Pro. It procs as intended off the pallys HP atleast for the XB1.

It damages from your hitpoints (seems low, my DevOP with half the hitpoints can do about that much damage per tick of AoC in solo content) when it's your damage. Other players get AoC damage from their hitpoints.

Sorry, but console players don't have the tools to analyze combat logs PC players can access. For a long time, everyone thought this was how it worked, but after running the numbers, it became evident that AoC damage from each player is based on that character's hitpoints, not those of the paladin they're running with.

niadan · September 2017

Everyone in range of the Aura, gets the Aura. So bulk up and hug a Paladin!

pegasusx1 · October 2017

For sure. Pallys my absolute fave. I believe pallys were truly designed for hp builds mho.

ravenskya · October 2017

I would LOVE for AOC to proc off of my HP... un-buffed I'm well above what all of my higher IL friends have because I built for HP.

xxmantaraxx · November 2017

I asked this question during the bug fix month and it never got a response.

Aura of Courage not using Pally's hitpoints for calculation.

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