If I was a dev, I wouldn't put any though into this without some data to support these accusations.
I had a friend SW send me a link of a GF during FBI, then calling for GF nerfs, saying griffon's strike is OP etc.... Didn't even check out the end of the video, where the GWF did 150% of the GF's damage, nor did he take note that the GF was using lunging to get ahead of everyone and get some damage out but still ended up doing 65% of the GWF's damage.
If there was really an issue with GFs being dps/support, then there would be a pack of angry players, including myself. Instead we only have one person foaming at the mouth for it.
> @defiantone99 said: > You made my point for me guys/girls. I do not need to say anything else. That is all you guys can do, insult and try to belittle.
Cause u never had a point to begin with xD
Guys how about we make a drinking game out of this? Like everytime defiant makes a post about nerfing smth u got to drink...
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
That really is all you can do. At least give a rational reason why GF damage should not be nerfed, you can't. You just insult and make things up to sound cool. You should form a guild called Mean Girls, you could all go to GG and see who has the biggest lance.
I haven't insulted once and am still waiting for answers you purport to have.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
GF will be just fine without HDPS. Right now it can outdamage all Striker classes. That is just stupid, for a Defender/Controller.
So your answer is no, you do not understand the fundamental mechanic of why a GF needs to be able to do damage.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
You have a tank, that actually plays GF to be a tank? I already said make KC a hard taunt. Heck, SW and CW have more threat than OP and GF, for real. This is a rework thread, of course there needs to be a rework, not a flat nerf. I am not like the GFs, that just want flat nerfs to other classes, so they are the only viable class. --Quit trying to be funny, taunts can be added to the class to give it threat. DPS classes can have threat nerfed. But, it seems like you are saying GF could not tank before the insane Mod 6 weapon damage increase, that is not true, I tanked on my GF just fine, as Protector.
You'll have to forgive me for thinking this thread is nothing but flamebait. You seem more concerned with generating negative comments so that you can claim to be a victim.
Just an addtional note on Pre-Mod 6. I didn't roll my GF and OP until Mod 6 so the details are a bit sketchy for me. But I recall the GF's roll for my time as a GWF was to kite the adds (for example SP and FH) so that the GWF's could tank/kill the bosses.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
That really is all you can do. At least give a rational reason why GF damage should not be nerfed, you can't. You just insult and make things up to sound cool. You should form a guild called Mean Girls, you could all go to GG and see who has the biggest lance.
I haven't insulted once and am still waiting for answers you purport to have.
I answered your stupid questions. GFs have been tanking for YEARS without HDPS. give me a break. You are worse than these other guys, for real.
in all fairness you probably should list the gf build types pros and cons the "tanky" one and the "dps" one they all dont have such high blocking DR do they ? there must be some weakness or HAMSTER in the armor lolz also might want to break down pvp gf vs pve gf or are they the same build as well ?
maybe pick a power so we can upvote it as over powered : D so the gfs get one "adjusted" just like the Tr courage breaker did...HAMSTER for tat as they say
I vote for gf prones respecting cc immunity / maybe toned down
The main overpowered power is Bullcharge. It needs to be a stun instead of a prone. It even gives 50% DR, like wait whut? Second is Knight's Challenge, it should be removed and replaced with a type of hard taunt. I think the problems are more of a feat and weapon damage thing though.
GF will be just fine without HDPS. Right now it can outdamage all Striker classes. That is just stupid, for a Defender/Controller.
So your answer is no, you do not understand the fundamental mechanic of why a GF needs to be able to do damage.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
You have a tank, that actually plays GF to be a tank? I already said make KC a hard taunt. Heck, SW and CW have more threat than OP and GF, for real. This is a rework thread, of course there needs to be a rework, not a flat nerf. I am not like the GFs, that just want flat nerfs to other classes, so they are the only viable class. --Quit trying to be funny, taunts can be added to the class to give it threat. DPS classes can have threat nerfed. But, it seems like you are saying GF could not tank before the insane Mod 6 weapon damage increase, that is not true, I tanked on my GF just fine, as Protector.
Ok so what you propose is that GF's in group content is making KC a Hard Taunt. Which encounter out of the 3 we are allowed to use would you replace, Enforced Threat, KV or ITF? I assume you meant to include Enforced Threat should be a Hard Taunt aswell?
What do you suggest the cooldown on KC (and Enforced Threat) should be for a GF that has little to no damage threat?
What happens when a groups Hate takes over an X second Hard Taunt and I have to wait several seconds for an encounter to become available again?
How do you propose content such as SKT, maybe RD but definitely Chult be handled by a character that has no innate ability to do damage under your proposals to limit a handful of players with the resources and expertise in the game to create HDPS GF's?. Or do you propose that harder Campaigns should be skipped or only run with other players.
GF's have a Buff Tree, Tactitian, but it's so unbelievably useless I cringe every time I hear someone ask for a buff GF.
Tactian have available to themselves 2 buffs which Prots and Conc Capstones cannot have access to.
Inspiring Leader: 5% ITF dam buff.
Martial MAstery Capstone: Dubious AP Gain.
Rousing Speech is Tier 3 and as such can be used easily with Conc (many of it's feats are trash anyway) and with a little sacrifice those with Prot capstone. It gives 5% AP gain to the party.
Crushing Pin is a Tier 1 Tactitian feat giving 10% debuff that can be a very good debuff if the GF invests in it. To get the most out of it, you must run Knight Valor, Guarded Assault and have the OH Gauarded Assault enabled.
I'm not sure why, if this is the debuff he most dislikes, noone has more that 2 class features, ideally a DPS GF would run Combat Superiority and Steel Grace, since although it is possible to hit 100% crit, GF's in general are crit starved, even with the GF Conc Capstone. Only people hitting 100% crit in PvE without Steel Grace would have to be absolutely BiS and that means R12 everything and R12 bondings pet.
---
That's it feat wise, everything else is pretty much a self buff, self mob debuff.
---
All GF's have Mark which is incredible which increases damage against a target and grants everyone attacking it their CA + CHA bonuses. GWF marks work in the same manner, also, GWF Daring shout, unlike Enforced Threat, is not removed from targets if they damage the GWF who cast it.
Every GF has access to ITF, a damage buff for everyone in the party, including the GF casting it.
Comander's Strike, buffs the damage of everyone in the party on their next encounter use.
---
That's all I can think of at 6am.
I'm still waiting to hear how you think KC alone will solve a threat issue, as I've already asked about above. I also asked about why you thought our buffs were OP.
@armadeonx no, I meant that a fully dps specced GF is very squishy and depends on paladins to do the actual tanking and that while doing so, the paladin can hdps as well + buffing the team, you should do the comparison actually as you don't seem to aware of the massive survability differences between conqueror GF and Justice Paladin and the latter can still hdps and buff like a champion, you see the GF as overpowered but the OP as balanced even though the latter as per overall perfomance and utility blows the former out of the water. You seem quite biased against GF as usual.
You did actually read my first line didn't you? Here it is again: "lol actually I do, my GF runs a conqueror build when soloing, he can't take nearly as much damage as my OP. I really don't need to do a comparison to learn that."
Pallies speccing for DPS is the required meta because it improves team buffs, threat & survivability. Pally buffing is less than a DC (of either path) or MoF so I wouldn't get too carried away with the exaggerations and as I stated on numerous previous occasions, a Pally typically does 40-70% of the DPS of a striker of equal IL.
You also completely ignored my point that only a BiS OP has very high buffing capability - and it is only fully effective when buffing other BiS players whereas a GF can do this to full effect as soon as they hit L70 & is not scaled to the recipients gear.
I know this goes against your (stated) goal of getting (yet) another round of nerfs for the OP as well as deflecting the debate away from the GF.
In response to your last comment of "You seem quite biased against GF as usual." I would remind you of my previous summary:
"Here's the thing though, I am actually pretty cool with where the GF is in general. It is pretty well balanced in most cases - but I stand by the point that when specifically built as a dps, it's damage multipliers take it into the realms of a Striker class. This is why I listed them."
So yeah, you can hype the pally and play down the GF all you like. You can take my words out of context and imply meaning where I gave none, or just simply ignore any valid observations by insinuating "but the pally is an immortal striker!". But all of these tactics just avoid the basic question: Should GFs be able to spec to GWF level DPS?.
I know you won't address the point seriously as any attempt I've made to debate reasonably has met with obscuring facts & diversion.
I have no issues with Pallies other than they have Hard Taunts and increased survivability with Temp Hit Points. On the flip side, GF has neither of those things but does have the capacity to do more damage.
I would argue that comparing OP and GF would be like comparing apples and oranges.
They are very different animals for sure. The GF does have hard taunts though - Mark, Enforced Threat & Enhanced Mark.
I did also say that the GF should have improved temp health, the amount they currently get is terrible.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
If a gf had no dps we would not be able to agro anything very well and you the super dps would get murdered doe
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
edited September 2017
Cryptic tooltips are known generally to be lacklustre to terrible. Not one power of a GF states that it actually hard taunts, unlike several companions that got updated at some point to specificly state they hard taunt.
OP powers will typically say that said powers force an enemy to attck them, GF's do not have this at all.
I am lucky to know at least 2 players that have played GF's from the start and their advice and tips on GF class are incredibly useful, even now and I've been playing a GF as my main since mod 6, but it seems around Mod 4 whatever mechanic the GF had in place previously was replaced with another. Enforced Threat merely places a GF at the top of the threat table, it does not physically force an opponent to attack you at least once.
I do find it easier to generate threat with GF's than OP's however. I have an OPP with similar gear level to my GF, once I have aggro/threat with GF, I rarely lose it, with OPP I have to keep working it at, I don't really know how that works.
The ALT GF I posted earlier needed a Trans Terror to be able to maintain decent aggro with his Drowned Weapon Set, however, he has so many sources of self healing now that I can probably just upgrade to something else and not notice now.
The reason I wanted so many self healing sources is because aforementioned accusation that Fighter's Recovery being too powerful does not work at all on n/e Demorgorgon and once everyone hits gold the healers usually just sit in the home well with everyone else leaving me to manage my health by myself.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Hahahahahha. you really can't come up with anything.
It seems my concerns that this thread is flamebait is confirmed. I shall not post in any more of your "balance threads" from now. You seem to enjoy taunting others more than trying to prove a valid point and improve game mechanics in general for everyone. Whatever your goals are they seem to be driven by purely selfish desires and nothing I have read in this thread has proven otherwise for me.
defiantone is using the exact same behavior than Trump and you guys fall for it. It's another nerf thread from him and should be closed because they're not allowed. It's obvious that he doesn't understand the classes, and always cries "you can only insult and not provide arguments" when there are no insult or whatever, and himself can't answer the numerous arguments provided by all the contributors.
I'm actually amazed you guys continue to answer this troll. But i have my popcorn so it's ok.
Even IF the devs "nerf" some "meta groups compositions", what would it lead to?
Some classes are then in that bad shape, some are now and i could still remember the time like Mod 4 and the so called "Kindergarden Mod 5", when noone where searching for an Tank, Dc (if the party was able to outgear the content).
Is it that what you want back?
Are you tired, to wait for an Tank class/Heal Class in the queue? Are you tired, to post every 10 seconds in the PE or lfg chat begging for an Gf/Dc, meanwhile other dps classes do the same and you start thinking, "Hell no, if these classes were not neccessary anymore i could invite some dps classes and try to start the run."
Sorry to say, but i really can't understand your behavior.
You say: " A Gf should be an Tank, nothing more."
I say: "Yes maybe, up to an point, when it is not neccessary anymore."
For me it depends of the knowledge of each class, the insight of game mechaniks, experience and gear.
Are all of them (or most) has reached an specific point, there is no need anymore to go as Dc as full heal, there is no need to be an defensive Gf, and that is the point (in my opinion), when "support classes" could try, if there are other ways to play the class, such as buff/debuff/dps.
I do remember seeing " nerf " the DC around a lot lately. Apparently the fact healing is long dead in PVE, means nothing really. Nerf to AS ... hopefully it will work only for PVP. But this is Cryptic. You know how that goes. We all do. It is a horrible thing, isn't it ? Now apparently our buffs are overpowered too. But that will be solved with nerf to the bondings , right >? ... it feels bad when people ask for a nerf of your class. I do not think Def here is serious in it. It is more of a : " lets see how you like it , when people ask for a nerf of something you care about. " You can understand that, right ?
If I was a dev, I wouldn't put any though into this without some data to support these accusations.
I had a friend SW send me a link of a GF during FBI, then calling for GF nerfs, saying griffon's strike is OP etc.... Didn't even check out the end of the video, where the GWF did 150% of the GF's damage, nor did he take note that the GF was using lunging to get ahead of everyone and get some damage out but still ended up doing 65% of the GWF's damage.
If there was really an issue with GFs being dps/support, then there would be a pack of angry players, including myself. Instead we only have one person foaming at the mouth for it.
He / She .. ( sorry Def i do not know if you are a he or a she ) got angry. I understand it, if i am thinking about what i would feel like, if my class got a nerf duo to other people crying. That is how bad stuff happens.. Def is i think trying to show , how that feels, when people do it. At least that is my subjective opinion.
Hahahahahha. you really can't come up with anything.
It seems my concerns that this thread is flamebait is confirmed. I shall not post in any more of your "balance threads" from now. You seem to enjoy taunting others more than trying to prove a valid point and improve game mechanics in general for everyone. Whatever your goals are they seem to be driven by purely selfish desires and nothing I have read in this thread has proven otherwise for me.
defiantone is using the exact same behavior than Trump and you guys fall for it. It's another nerf thread from him and should be closed because they're not allowed. It's obvious that he doesn't understand the classes, and always cries "you can only insult and not provide arguments" when there are no insult or whatever, and himself can't answer the numerous arguments provided by all the contributors.
I'm actually amazed you guys continue to answer this troll. But i have my popcorn so it's ok.
Indeed, all here feeding this GF hater. Nerf post should be closed from the bigining and its long time ago become personal hatred. Moderators hello?
Cryptic tooltips are known generally to be lacklustre to terrible. Not one power of a GF states that it actually hard taunts, unlike several companions that got updated at some point to specificly state they hard taunt.
OP powers will typically say that said powers force an enemy to attck them, GF's do not have this at all.
I am lucky to know at least 2 players that have played GF's from the start and their advice and tips on GF class are incredibly useful, even now and I've been playing a GF as my main since mod 6, but it seems around Mod 4 whatever mechanic the GF had in place previously was replaced with another. Enforced Threat merely places a GF at the top of the threat table, it does not physically force an opponent to attack you at least once.
I do find it easier to generate threat with GF's than OP's however. I have an OPP with similar gear level to my GF, once I have aggro/threat with GF, I rarely lose it, with OPP I have to keep working it at, I don't really know how that works.
The ALT GF I posted earlier needed a Trans Terror to be able to maintain decent aggro with his Drowned Weapon Set, however, he has so many sources of self healing now that I can probably just upgrade to something else and not notice now.
The reason I wanted so many self healing sources is because aforementioned accusation that Fighter's Recovery being too powerful does not work at all on n/e Demorgorgon and once everyone hits gold the healers usually just sit in the home well with everyone else leaving me to manage my health by myself.
Me too, threat on the GF is easier to manage and can be obtained well before DPS reach the target by Marking. On the Pally we have Binding Oath and Relentless for forced threat but Relentless can't be used in groups (except very specific exceptions) and Binding Oath (whilst good) is not always the best choice of skill. I actually find its threat mechanic to be buggy and having a taunt that requires enemies to be in the immediate area and you have to stop moving to cast it is not exactly optimal.
The main thing we rely on is the 5x threat multiplier from the Protection mechanic.
Given the 5% 'steal' threshold, we have to do a continuous minimum of 25% of the damage output of the highest dps in the group to maintain aggro. Newer OPs don't understand this requirement and often don't slot enough armor pen and so lose aggro.
There's a BiS GWF in my guild (the guild leader actually) who has really impressive dps. In MSP I'll come in at around 30% of his damage, putting me worryingly close to losing aggro - especially if we're light on damage debuffs and I have to cast SoF instead of Divine Judgement.
I like the way they reworked the GF skills so that most of them can be used whilst moving, I've often wished they'd do the same to Binding Oath and charging Burning Light - as a tank you can't really say "hang on a minute guys, I'm charging my encounter...".
If only they'd change Relentless so it didn't scatter enemies to the four winds, we be able to jump ahead and hard taunt at the beginning of fights, instead of waddling in at 3rd place (even with Gladiators Guile) and working to steal back the already taken aggro.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
defiantone is using the exact same behavior than Trump and you guys fall for it. It's another nerf thread from him and should be closed because they're not allowed. It's obvious that he doesn't understand the classes, and always cries "you can only insult and not provide arguments" when there are no insult or whatever, and himself can't answer the numerous arguments provided by all the contributors.
I'm actually amazed you guys continue to answer this troll. But i have my popcorn so it's ok.
Ewi, the people whining here are the ones who can't play their class right it seems. GFs can do damage, sure, but they're not almighty. Our little Lil' can spec for DPS for instance, but loses a lotta tanking capabilities. Can go full tank, and loses DPS, and can go hybrid in which case it's jack of all trades, master of none. And that's the way it should be. I'm 14.5k, and Lil is 17k. I can beat his hybrid build. I can't beat his DPS build. That's the way it should be. Higher IL = higher versatility, and capabilities. You get to allocate more stats into something you need when you're BiS. And that's EXACTLY how it's supposed to work.
> @defiantone99 said: > That really is all you can do. At least give a rational reason why GF damage should not be nerfed, you can't. You just insult and make things up to sound cool. You should form a guild called Mean Girls, you could all go to GG and see who has the biggest lance.
> @defiantone99 said: > That really is all you can do. At least give a rational reason why GF damage should not be nerfed, you can't. You just insult and make things up to sound cool. You should form a guild called Mean Girls, you could all go to GG and see who has the biggest lance.
Because in that video of the FBI run the gf did NOT do the most damage. All the proof you need right there.
If you look at the description of the class in the tooltip page of classes you can see that Guardian fighter class is Defense focused or Damage Dealer.
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
Mod 1- 3 the GF was a pure tank, with little means to significantly buff or do damage in a party. In those days of pure tank, the GF was the unwanted cousin, the very last choice in any party. I know. I was there.
First, I will answer defiant's question. Why should a GF have the ability to do damage equal to a dps class? Answer. Because this gives variety for the class. There is a cost to going pure dps for the GF, which you still ignore. Yes, a pure dps GF can hit for huge dps, yes it can be massive. Yes it is impressive, with videos and those of such ilk laughing and smiling in amazement. But, there is a cost. The dps GF must be in a party or in group content (like any other dps) that specifically layers buffs and debuffs. Moreover, the dps GF must sacrifice other abilities, mostly defensive ones, to hit those numbers. Even having the shield to stop 80% of the damage is no guarantee of success. Other classes that can hit huge numbers (TR and GWF) have in their stamina abilities, the mechanism to dodge or sprint out the area. I am sure that no one would say that because. You might answer, its their only mechanism as a TR or GWF to stay tanky, and I would say the same thing with the pure dps GF. The choice to go dps sacrifices defense, deflect, probably lifesteal (but to a lesser degree), recovery, and perhaps (gasp) arm pen. Pure dps GFs are glass cannons. They cannot tank and require tanks and other synergies to protect them from getting slaughtered. So, in this case, a pure dps GF functions not like a GF super tank-super buffer-super dps, but as a weak HAMSTER tank, a non buffer, and a super dps. This option for build is in the game that a few run because that is what they enjoy.
And that is the whole point of the game, to provide classes with build options so that one size does not fit all. And while some pure dps GF players might be FoTM players. The only people who ask for nerfs are those who care that their dps is always the highest, because that is their definition of BIS. I even left a channel because it was taken over by dps GFs who refused to understand that a pure dps GF is not the only style of play. Yes, the arrogance spilled over mightly. But, touche! To each his own. Good luck and God bless! If it remains in the game, oh well. Let them get their willies off of huge dps numbers. Until you can accept that this is the way the game is designed, to give options, you will continue to miss the whole point. The game will never bend to the will of (one) player(s) who has(have) a philosophy that is against the design of the game.
Comments
If I was a dev, I wouldn't put any though into this without some data to support these accusations.
I had a friend SW send me a link of a GF during FBI, then calling for GF nerfs, saying griffon's strike is OP etc.... Didn't even check out the end of the video, where the GWF did 150% of the GF's damage, nor did he take note that the GF was using lunging to get ahead of everyone and get some damage out but still ended up doing 65% of the GWF's damage.
If there was really an issue with GFs being dps/support, then there would be a pack of angry players, including myself. Instead we only have one person foaming at the mouth for it.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
> You made my point for me guys/girls. I do not need to say anything else. That is all you guys can do, insult and try to belittle.
Cause u never had a point to begin with xD
Guys how about we make a drinking game out of this? Like everytime defiant makes a post about nerfing smth u got to drink...
Just an addtional note on Pre-Mod 6. I didn't roll my GF and OP until Mod 6 so the details are a bit sketchy for me. But I recall the GF's roll for my time as a GWF was to kite the adds (for example SP and FH) so that the GWF's could tank/kill the bosses.
I'm still waiting to hear how you think KC alone will solve a threat issue, as I've already asked about above. I also asked about why you thought our buffs were OP.
I did also say that the GF should have improved temp health, the amount they currently get is terrible.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
OP powers will typically say that said powers force an enemy to attck them, GF's do not have this at all.
I am lucky to know at least 2 players that have played GF's from the start and their advice and tips on GF class are incredibly useful, even now and I've been playing a GF as my main since mod 6, but it seems around Mod 4 whatever mechanic the GF had in place previously was replaced with another. Enforced Threat merely places a GF at the top of the threat table, it does not physically force an opponent to attack you at least once.
I do find it easier to generate threat with GF's than OP's however. I have an OPP with similar gear level to my GF, once I have aggro/threat with GF, I rarely lose it, with OPP I have to keep working it at, I don't really know how that works.
The ALT GF I posted earlier needed a Trans Terror to be able to maintain decent aggro with his Drowned Weapon Set, however, he has so many sources of self healing now that I can probably just upgrade to something else and not notice now.
The reason I wanted so many self healing sources is because aforementioned accusation that Fighter's Recovery being too powerful does not work at all on n/e Demorgorgon and once everyone hits gold the healers usually just sit in the home well with everyone else leaving me to manage my health by myself.
It's another nerf thread from him and should be closed because they're not allowed. It's obvious that he doesn't understand the classes, and always cries "you can only insult and not provide arguments" when there are no insult or whatever, and himself can't answer the numerous arguments provided by all the contributors.
I'm actually amazed you guys continue to answer this troll. But i have my popcorn so it's ok.
Apparently the fact healing is long dead in PVE, means nothing really.
Nerf to AS ... hopefully it will work only for PVP. But this is Cryptic. You know how that goes. We all do.
It is a horrible thing, isn't it ?
Now apparently our buffs are overpowered too. But that will be solved with nerf to the bondings , right >?
... it feels bad when people ask for a nerf of your class. I do not think Def here is serious in it.
It is more of a : " lets see how you like it , when people ask for a nerf of something you care about. "
You can understand that, right ? He / She .. ( sorry Def i do not know if you are a he or a she ) got angry.
I understand it, if i am thinking about what i would feel like, if my class got a nerf duo to other people crying.
That is how bad stuff happens.. Def is i think trying to show , how that feels, when people do it.
At least that is my subjective opinion.
The main thing we rely on is the 5x threat multiplier from the Protection mechanic.
Given the 5% 'steal' threshold, we have to do a continuous minimum of 25% of the damage output of the highest dps in the group to maintain aggro. Newer OPs don't understand this requirement and often don't slot enough armor pen and so lose aggro.
There's a BiS GWF in my guild (the guild leader actually) who has really impressive dps. In MSP I'll come in at around 30% of his damage, putting me worryingly close to losing aggro - especially if we're light on damage debuffs and I have to cast SoF instead of Divine Judgement.
I like the way they reworked the GF skills so that most of them can be used whilst moving, I've often wished they'd do the same to Binding Oath and charging Burning Light - as a tank you can't really say "hang on a minute guys, I'm charging my encounter...".
If only they'd change Relentless so it didn't scatter enemies to the four winds, we be able to jump ahead and hard taunt at the beginning of fights, instead of waddling in at 3rd place (even with Gladiators Guile) and working to steal back the already taken aggro.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I'm 14.5k, and Lil is 17k. I can beat his hybrid build. I can't beat his DPS build. That's the way it should be. Higher IL = higher versatility, and capabilities. You get to allocate more stats into something you need when you're BiS. And that's EXACTLY how it's supposed to work.
> That really is all you can do. At least give a rational reason why GF damage should not be nerfed, you can't. You just insult and make things up to sound cool. You should form a guild called Mean Girls, you could all go to GG and see who has the biggest lance.
Stop assuming my gender u misogynist
thats not really how it works btw...
> That really is all you can do. At least give a rational reason why GF damage should not be nerfed, you can't. You just insult and make things up to sound cool. You should form a guild called Mean Girls, you could all go to GG and see who has the biggest lance.
Because in that video of the FBI run the gf did NOT do the most damage. All the proof you need right there.
deal with it.
First, I will answer defiant's question. Why should a GF have the ability to do damage equal to a dps class? Answer. Because this gives variety for the class. There is a cost to going pure dps for the GF, which you still ignore. Yes, a pure dps GF can hit for huge dps, yes it can be massive. Yes it is impressive, with videos and those of such ilk laughing and smiling in amazement. But, there is a cost. The dps GF must be in a party or in group content (like any other dps) that specifically layers buffs and debuffs. Moreover, the dps GF must sacrifice other abilities, mostly defensive ones, to hit those numbers. Even having the shield to stop 80% of the damage is no guarantee of success. Other classes that can hit huge numbers (TR and GWF) have in their stamina abilities, the mechanism to dodge or sprint out the area. I am sure that no one would say that because. You might answer, its their only mechanism as a TR or GWF to stay tanky, and I would say the same thing with the pure dps GF. The choice to go dps sacrifices defense, deflect, probably lifesteal (but to a lesser degree), recovery, and perhaps (gasp) arm pen. Pure dps GFs are glass cannons. They cannot tank and require tanks and other synergies to protect them from getting slaughtered. So, in this case, a pure dps GF functions not like a GF super tank-super buffer-super dps, but as a weak HAMSTER tank, a non buffer, and a super dps. This option for build is in the game that a few run because that is what they enjoy.
And that is the whole point of the game, to provide classes with build options so that one size does not fit all. And while some pure dps GF players might be FoTM players. The only people who ask for nerfs are those who care that their dps is always the highest, because that is their definition of BIS. I even left a channel because it was taken over by dps GFs who refused to understand that a pure dps GF is not the only style of play. Yes, the arrogance spilled over mightly. But, touche! To each his own. Good luck and God bless! If it remains in the game, oh well. Let them get their willies off of huge dps numbers. Until you can accept that this is the way the game is designed, to give options, you will continue to miss the whole point. The game will never bend to the will of (one) player(s) who has(have) a philosophy that is against the design of the game.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends