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Guardian Fighter needs a rework for Mod 12b.
defiantone99
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,634 Arc User
This class is broken and overpowered. It had been for a while, but powercreep and design flaws have skyrocketed it to levels beyond GF's intended design. The class can buff itself and others, while also dealing out insane levels of damage and having an 80% Reduced Incoming Damage shield. It has a daily that heals it. It fills every role at once, except healer. Other classes have to sacrifice damage for survivability, GF just has to press Shift. With high stamina, this shield can almost always be up. As soon as you approach, SMASH, you are dead. Then it goes back behind its shield. In PVE, it can match all DPS classes. A tank that is top tier DPS, that is absurd on its face. Fix this mess, make GF a tank again.
DEFIANT "Where Yesterday Has Been Exiled, Memory Is Rebellion." "The state of ruin is essentially a temporary situation that happens at some point, the volatile result of a change of era and the fall of empires. Ruins are a fantastic land where one no longer knows whether reality slips into a dream or whether, on the contrary, dream makes a brutal return into the most violent of realities." #ITMFA
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Comments
they all dont have such high blocking DR do they ? there must be some weakness or HAMSTER in the armor lolz also might want to break down pvp gf vs pve gf or are they the same build as well ?
maybe pick a power so we can upvote it as over powered : D so the gfs get one "adjusted" just like the Tr courage breaker did...HAMSTER for tat as they say
I vote for gf prones respecting cc immunity / maybe toned down
As said before if you fall behind in dps when a Gf tanks a FBI/Orcus/Tong run you should probably either change game or l2p your class unless its DC which it is not as we know ....
GF has to sacrifice something to gain something. Every class has to. It's called trade off's. You can't be a Conquerer and expect to be as tanky as a Protector. It's just not possible. Even with a GF's shield up you are still taking damage and it can be clearly seen especially in PvP. It's not "Hit a billion, take 0's) you sacrifice survivability for damage. Also, GF stamina as a Conquerer is very low. It only "appears" to have a higher uptime because either the GF is momentarily CC'd and can regenerate some of it, or is attacking someone and they gain stamina back while they attack. Every class in this game has the same thing, every class in this game is capable of doing so. GF is no different.
Your point about a GF is absurdly incorrect. Like, what are you even talking about? Mobs in ETOS? Lol, and why would the GF be in front of everyone else as if it's some speed machine? "before the rest of the team gets there" If I was running with a Warlock or a GWF, they can run a Marathon ahead of me, my team should be following the tank, even as a DPS GF, you follow the tank, tank always should be in front of the group to hold aggro and intercept damage first yes, but to make it as if it is ahead of everyone running at light speed, pile driving and steamrolling hoards of mobs on it's own all the while melting EVERYTHING in it's path is just not true. At all. You can't passively run (Assuming it is a PvE GF on SM because thats what most GF's are in PvE) Steel Grace and Combat Superiority or Shield Warrior's and hold your shield up and tank and run faster than everyone and wipe mobs and mini bosses, you just cant. Your shield will diminish within 10 seconds of holding it up (Thats tested with Gladiators Guile and every stamina regen boon you can get in combat as of now with out killing or hitting a crit on someone), theres too many things for the GF to handle at once even if you slotted Fighter's Recovery, the GF has a choice to make either hold off the mobs, or try to damage them which in a fight, will get the GF insanely low, or instantly dead. It's not humanly possible. This is especially true in higher tier dungeons, and in PvP when holding off multiple enemies of similar item level and skill.
GF's feats are atrocious btw. (I know some in other classes are as well) They are hilariously outdated, and most feats do not fit with any liking to people who have knowledge of the class, and most feats are paired with powers with the GF, few are stand alone that can increase a GF's performance on a large scale.
PvE people are complaining about the Staggering Challenge feat mixed with Griffons Wrath, KC, and Fray. Which (if you read up on the class) is clearly only on boss's which is where the BULK of the damage comes from. If you want to nerf KC to make it 50% in PvE as opposed to just PvP and rework Staggering Challenge, go ahead. I wrote 2 full pages of the feat changes i'd like to see in the GF anyway, and personally, id like to see it gone and like many of the GF feats, reworked and replaced with something better. https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912
PvP people complain about the GF's damage, which in that case have people seen what Paladins are capable of? Have you fought in top tier games where you have been hit with a Courage Break for the whole match? Have any of you seen what TR's SoD is capable of? Have you seen what Combat HR's can do on a node? With TR's not harassing GWF's anymore with dunks or CC, have you seen what a GWF can do? I got from half to dead with a Savage Advance just with initial first hit of Savage Advance, and have been 1 rotated by a GWF, multiple times. Have you seen what a DPS wizard can do in dom? It can mess someone up, they can have some great survivability too if you run shield on tab and deflect/HP slotted correctly. I haven't even gone into all of what classes can do, and I don't need to, to prove this point.
@marnival is right. You need to really learn your class, if a GF is tanking and your DPS is behind the GF, thats an issue for you and your teams DPS. Even on mobs, any DPS with cognitive skills can easily kill the mobs faster than the GF, even if the GF is DPS. I don't wanna hear "but WMS can clear mobs" yeah not faster than a GWF running it with Unstoppable up. Not gunna happen.
PvP, Utilize Dodges, Sprint frames, and learn better movement patterns, and anticipate what your enemy is going to throw at you next. GF's deadly damage doesn't come from a single encounter or even a daily. It is a combination of all of the encounters and the daily, you should dodge correctly as soon as you see the GF hit Into the Fray. They usually always follow up with a Bull Charge as well.
Work on your build as well. As mentioned above GF clearly isn't the only class capable of killing, others can too, when used correctly, they can shred a GF and other classes as well.
"GF just holds shift" Yeah because thats for sure what actually happens. Every real GF main knows it's not just "hold up shield" and thats that.
You also make it seem it's the "GF" that is doing all the work in PvE. Do you even take into account how things work? Bonding's, companions, PvE Gear, the freedom to pick and choose whatever stats you desire in PvE, PvE set bonus's, Debuffs, Buffs, etc. Take away everyone's companions, and anything companion related, and tell me if it is the same as WITH companions.
Bull Charge already got nerfed, Fray got nerfed, Anvil got nerfed, Knights Challenge got nerfed, Lunging Strike got nerfed, Combat Superiority got nerfed. Nerfing the Weapon Damage of the GF would mean they would nerf the Paladins Weapon Damage which makes no sense. That would contradict the changes they made in module 6, and would end in a disaster. A lot of what they buffed/ changed no one really likes clearly as I, nor do I ever see other GF's use what they reworked and buffed on the GF. Make KC 50% not just for PvP but for PvE as well, replace Staggering Challenge with something else, and rework the classes that didn't get reworked yet. Take hard look at classes like the SW to be more efficient in both PvE and PvP. Whatever paragon path they choose to go to, every class should have the option to pick 1 from the multiple options. Every class should have feats that are up to date and that encourage players very careful choice making and stuff that they enjoy, not just "just go Destroyer thats what every GWF goes" for example.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Make everyone happy, merge them to the one class
http://dnd.wizards.com/dungeons-and-dragons/what-is-dnd/classes/fighter
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Fighter
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_Archetypes#Fighter
Dead🔪It isn't absurd, it's one of their two main team buffs.
On the GF the issue is the damage multipliers.
Reckless Attacker: 25% buff
Tactical Superiority: 5% buff
Wrathful Warrior 15% buff
Staggering Challenge 20% buff to Griffons and 10% buff to Knights Challenge
Crushing Pin: 10% buff
Combat Superiority: 8% buff
Knight's Challenge: 50% buff
I've left out multipliers that work for the whole team, these increase dps just for the GF and all can be active simultaneously.
Compare this to OP buffs and you'll see the majority improve DPS for the whole team. OP's can do good personal DPS and indeed always spec for high DPS but when grouped with an equal IL dps player, they will do between 40-70% of that other player. That to my mind is fair and balanced.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Anyone sees Xuna in that party? Yup... No one invited the TR even to the video....
Tactical CloakStealth to enter combat.;3
defiantone, you sound like a whiny idiot with your rants against GFs. In PVE, they're not broken in any way, there may be one or two exceptional ones who need to be measured against equally exceptional DPS, but all will be outdamaged by equally well played DPS classes. I accept there may be issues in PvP (I don't PvP but hear people complaining).
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Yeah and if you read what I said, I said make KC 50% not just for PvP, remove Staggering Challenge, and replace it with something else. That would hinder the GF especially on boss fights. If they made KC a forceful "Taunt" like you said that would significantly lower the damage they delt on bosses or anything PvE by 110%. KC is a horrible move anyway. Thats why people only use it for PvE, and can be abusable on classes who don't deal damage in PvP on pugs. You remove KC and Staggering Challenge. Your problem is solved. But I would like the Feat and Power replaced with something that can be better and help. The Taunt could hold aggro, and the feat can be fixed to appropriately fit the Conquerer tree.
Your true colors show when you say "If DPS class gets beat by a GF, they are bad players" Thats not even what I said and you are taking words from your own mouth and putting it into mine.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Which, ironically, was probably why the rise of deeps GF happened.
Also combine this with the fact that GFs are just naturally tankier than most other dps classes, and on top of this any competent gf can hold their shield up for what might as well be forever, all the while spinning around like a top taking no dmg and not being able to be cc'd by anyone other than a courage breaker rouge.
To my mind a support class should max out at about 70-80% of an equal level striker class even when fully specced for dps. This is of course countered by having better survivability than the striker.
On that subject, I do think that the feat Take Measure should be improved though. 5% temp HP every 50 seconds is just lame. I'd want it to be more like 20% every 30 seconds - that's a lot more useful.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
We suggest to remove or adjust KC now bring any Gf you want and I bring Hr Tr CW or Gwf in a Tong run and let me see Gf come out top dps and that is WHILE TANKING according to you lol.
The only agenda one can have to want to nerf the Gf class playing Gwf or Tr is pure sore ego and your own inability to play or build your own classes right.
Cw ruled pve for several modules back in the day and 3-4 Cw was norm I know I played Gwf as main back then and trust me it was hard to get into groups then.
Now Gwf is meta for high dps in the 2 dc pal Gf +1 dps group. Why do you think they want Gf in group for its dps lol nop it is for ITF and mark so the Gwf can as solo dps make for speed runs in MSVA, FBI and Tong.
Pal is for buffs and powercharing gwf is for buffs and mark some tact for AP gain they dont care if you are conq tact or prot as Gf they want you for the synergy the sum of buffs for the DPS class.
But I am pretty sure that your hunt for nerfing Gf only create the opposite as you never ending ranting actually reveals how it really are from all other posts that points out your lies and flaws in just about everything you write
or a warlock taking out a high end gf . // or a dps cleric ...against most classes GF is not a fair matchup in pvp what does that say ??? he just sits and waits behind a shield forever for you to make a mistake or have an opening then one huge chain combo and its over .
also most of these 1 v1 video are bs one of them lasts almost 5 mins that is not how a 1 v 1 works in a live match either ... if you cant kill anybody with in 30-60 seconds its a stale mate and lucky hit after 2- 3 mins dont prove anything as far as any class taking out any class the sample size is too small ...