kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Cleaned up some flaming. Please do not attack your fellow players. Keep this thread on topic.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Imo it'd be worse to have a dungeon with awful loot than it would to have lag and some minor difficulty issues.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited July 2017
The cutscene of orcus leaves almost no time after until battle starts. Traps have no leads, from the 3 traps my group found i only understood 1 of them.
From what i've seen of the loot this is just another dungeon to throw to the drawer, i don't even bother anymore honestly, i run eToS in 10 minutes, my expectancy for a run in this dungeon is 100 minutes, i can simply farm 10 times eToS across my chars to get massively more profit, equipment has nothing special either, pilgrim, historian regalia and vivified combination with guild boons and bondings will make the difference from 500IL to avg 470 meaningless, good aspect is within a year or so i'll be able to queue for it and run it.
While I have no plausible answer why ignoring feedbacks on a feedback forum is doing any good, the loot table might have some answer.
And this is a perceptional thing:
Tomb of the nine gods is just an another dungeon. It has some adjustment to be the hardest at the moment, to catch up with the scaling up average power-level of the player base, but that's all. It has no incentive to "tier up" the rewards as it does not tier up the difficulty. It adjusts difficulty in a way to punish mindless grind-throughs (with more or less success) and it had to take some necessary step-ups, but that's all. There's no more difference than an eToS compared eGWD.
I think (I did not take the time to run it like 50 times to see the average loot) it'll give more salvage in general, and who need the Primal gear will open the chests regardless and there will be a dungeon specific item and then the next mod steps in, with a harder dungeon and we just let this as a weekly 1 for the Kavatos quest.
It's just my opinion and still makes me write this feedback:
I can see that a Rank 5 or rare-uncommon refine material makes the reward better, but in the same time, it feels degrading. Please, do not toss coins in our face. Pay in paper or do not pay at all, because you are making the whole "open the chest" experience feel bad. The marginal difference it gives does not feel like a difference at all. It feels unrewarding in general and because it happens at the very end of the dungeon, it's defining the experience of the whole content, as this is the phase where you are getting the full view on it and trying to sum it up. And it's pretty pathetic to open a chest for the same stuff that drops in the dungeon for free (with like, Dragon's hoard enchantment or just getting an R5 for killing a mob).
Edit, Tomb is hard as hell and I like it
Post edited by theraxin#5169 on
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I have the feeling this dungeon was designed by the same person(s) as designed the new mSP.
On the positive side:
Those dungeons look good
The bosses have interesting "new" mechanisms - it is not only a matter of just burning them as quickly as possible.
On the negative side:
The loot is bad. If you just calculate the expected earnout rate in, say, average AD sale value of unbound loot items divided by the time it takes to complete the dungeon, you will probably find that number to be quite low.
I have not yet heard of anyone getting anything that could be described as "great" loot from the new dungeon, and it seems to me that people will only want to run it for one reason, to get the seals required for the Primal gear, but that's it.
@asterdahl If you dont want our feedback pls say so. 2 pages of ppl bringing up the loot issue and still no response. If u alrdy decided to not change the loot let us know.
there are two things that i like to have adjusted:
1. The second boss is too easy at the moment, i can't wait to fight the fixed version of it.
2.The loot is not very tempting, which may lead to a few problems. After people reached the weekly seal-cap, most of them will stop to run it for this week. There also seems to be a disbalance between support- and dps-chars on the server. This will make it even more difficult for the dps-chars to find parties after the support-chars are capped on seals. I would like to see the loottable changed, so it will be worth to run the dungeon after you reached the seal-cap. If you don't want to make the dungeon more profiatble (for whatever reason), then adding account bound purple insignias to the campaign-chest would be a nice addition.
there are two things that i like to have adjusted:
1. The second boss is too easy at the moment, i can't wait to fight the fixed version of it.
2.The loot is not very tempting, which may lead to a few problems. After people reached the weekly seal-cap, most of them will stop to run it for this week. There also seems to be a disbalance between support- and dps-chars on the server. This will make it even more difficult for the dps-chars to find parties after the support-chars are capped on seals. I would like to see the loottable changed, so it will be worth to run the dungeon after you reached the seal-cap. If you don't want to make the dungeon more profiatble (for whatever reason), then adding account bound purple insignias to the campaign-chest would be a nice addition.
Accound-bound purple insignias will make the dungeon more profitable in a sense that now you don't have to buy the sometimes million costing insignias. Yes, you can get bad ones that will be useless (still can be taken to the guild coffer), but will remove a lot players from the buyer side of the auction house -> lowering the price of these insignias. So, in a less efficient way, you still generated some value.
In my opinion: -Delete the seal cap. -Make the shop cap to retrieve 1 Primal item per week. -Add some item for brave seal for a reasonable cost to spend the leftover seals for. Bound or not, it'd help to maintain the cost of running the dungeon in a not random way.
Dungeons that take this amount of time need BOE drops that are worth selling or keeping. Anything less than this is simply not worth the time once you have the seals.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Seeing how FBI and mSP were ignored, I guess horrible loot is WAI.
Hi, I've ran this dungeon this weekend with my guild and here are my thoughts:
The dungeon maps are all very beautiful. We were all commenting on what a great job you guys have did creating this impressive looking dungeon, stopping to admire the detail during several points.
The large room when you first enter the temple is incredibly laggy. I assume it's due to the large open room filled with hordes of mobs. Please look into reducing the lag here by reducing the mobs in this room if that's what it takes. It left a terrible first impression for what is otherwise a great lead into the dungeon.
The puzzle/trap rooms are all very nice touches, and are really fun to coordinate if you are running with a team using voice chat like we did. I also like the little moments where players get punished with their deaths for wandering off and touching things, like when I decided to inspect the sleeping skeleton the throne. Moments like these are very “DnD,” and I definitely feel like this is the most DnD-like dungeon you guys have made so kudos to the team.
1st Boss: Our team was stuck on this boss for the longest time. As we were having a lot of difficulty figuring out what we were supposed to do. This didn't help because of a couple of bugs which made things more confusing. Bug: When clicking on the pedestals that give you curse descriptions, the curse explanation is given out in the “background talking NPC” GUI element. This was very bad as one of our teammembers had unknowingly had this GUI disabled, so was getting extremely frustrated with this room as she kept clicking on the objects but received “nothing”. Said party member was feeling left out of the teammwork moments since everyone else was receiving the clues just fine but we couldn't figure out why she didn't. I would suggest that any important information SHOULD NOT be solely delivered through this GUI. Solution: When clicking on the clue objects, the player should be forced into the dialogue window where they can read the clue, thus eliminating the player from possibly missing important information.
Bug: The curses will sometimes disappear seconds after taking them, before we even enter the boss fight. We had no idea that this was a bug for a very long time since we had no idea what was or wasn't part of the design... but this definitely needs to be fixed ASAP because if the temp HP curse bugs and removes itself prematurely (which happened several times in our run) then it will make the fight unwinnable. This bug was also very frustrating as we had theorised the temp HP curse was supposed to jump on the spheres of annihilation, but because it had bugged out before the fight, the curse holder died and so we had thought we had drawn the wrong conclusion. THIS BUG MUST BE FIXED. NOT ONLY DOES IT MISLEAD PLAYERS FROM THE CORRECT SOLUTION IT ALSO MAKES THE FIGHT UNWINNABLE WHEN IT HAPPENS. Our party all expressed disappointment when after exploring this completely brand new dungeon (one member was sure you would reuse assets from one of the discontinued dungeons before we started) the first boss they were greeted with was Orcus. This seemed like a let down as everyone was on a high with seeing how everything was brand new in this dungeon. Now, I understand that the Orcus fight in this is completely different, and I have read your explanation in this thread defending your addition of Orcus in the dungeon, but I must plead for you to understand that no matter how justified it is to add Orcus in the dungeon, players are only going to think “Oh, the devs have gotten lazy again and are reusing assets”. Yes that is an unfair assessment and it might sound like I'm being mean, but I am telling you this to help you understand what your players are going to think the moment they see Orcus.
Now of course it is too late for you to change the boss at this point, but this is something to take away and consider the next time you add a completely new experience and want to WOW your players.
2nd Boss: We died a few times exploring this room and trying to understand the “gimmick” of this boss, before we just decided to pile in on the boss and burn him down, which lead us to beating him. We all commented that it seemed like we were over-thinking the boss.
From the comments I've read in this thread it seemed like the boss is currently bugged to not work correctly, so maybe once it's fixed we will need to apply the boss gimmicks. Though from what I can figure to play it “properly” seems like quite an ordeal, as you would need 1 team to attack the boss, while a team of 2 will have to run around killing dwarves, and it would need to be 2 to make sure the dwarf killer doesn't get killed by the Bigby's Hands.
3rd Boss: I have to agree with the overall sentiment of the thread that the paralysis during this fight is TOO STRONG. Due to:
1) It is very hard for non tanks to avoid the attack that deals paralysis. It seems like you want non-tanks to hug the boss's back when he winds up the animation. But this is VERY HARD because the boss twists his back for the wind-up animation which confuses players where his “back” truly is (it's not like you can look at where the boss is planting his feet afterall).
2) There is no red-AoE to signal this attack which normally I would be okay with, but because all the various spell VFX and damage numbers fills the screen it makes it very hard to see the wind-up animation. Our group ended up setting our graphics all the way to low and some even removed damage numbers just so they can see the boss mechanics. THIS SHOULD NOT BE DESIRABLE PLAYER BEHAVIOUR.
3) I would suggest a halfway point to improve the visibility of this attack would be to add a purple aura to the boss as he winds up, and that the purple vfx of the sword swing makes it clearer where the attacks blindspot is behind him.
Getting hit by paralysis is a death sentence in itself as you can be stunned just as you try and run away from the platform tilting and die, get stunned while channelling a heal, getting detoggled, etc. Combined with how easy it is to get hit by the effect due the points I raised above it is a very punishing mechanic, especially for classes with long attack/spell animations. I would suggest a decrease in the severity of the paralysis, such as half the tick rate of what it currently has on stunning players.
The red AoE attack the bosses do where the player only has a thin strip to stand on to be safe seems comically thin. While it is possible to stand on the lines to be safe, that the width of the character models makes it look like they are outside of the safe-zone makes it look a little absurd. I would suggest widening the strips so it looks like most models could reasonably stand within the zones.
Chest Reward: I have to agree with the thread sentiment that the chest rewards seem very disappointing. At the very least please replace the R5s from the loot table as it feels like an "unreward" after having been through the hardest dungeon.
Please add more incentive outside of grinding for Primal armor to run this dungeon (which will also mean this dungeon risks being dead once all the strong players have grinded out Primal gear). I point you to MSP, whose extreme difficulty for PUG teams combined with poor rewards (R5s in end chests!) meant that this dungeon was avoided by weak and strong players alike until the devs added fartouched residuum(spl?) drops.
Difficulty: We completed the dungeon in 3 hours, 1 minute. Our team were all guildmembers, at 14k IL and using voice chat to help coordinate. We certainly aren't the bestest of the best players on the server: it takes us 25-30mins to complete fbi and 35-40 mins to complete MSP. We estimate that once we gotten used to the dungeon, we could probably do it in the 30-40 min range. The difficulty is for the most part, just right in the danger and challenge of the latest dungeon. My only concern is that if the difficulty of FBI and especially MSP are out of reach of the general NW population, then TotN is another dungeon in the line of new content that they will ignore. I'm not sure if the devs intend the new dungeon to be run only by the top 10% or if they are trying to get as much of the playerbase as they can onto the new dung, and level the playing field as what everything else seems to indicate about this mod.
Conclusion: Overall I am very satisfied with the new dungeon. Our team enjoyed the challenge and looked forward to running it again. We'll definitely be back to check the 2nd boss when he is fixed.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I asked to have some bug reports merged in this thread, but forgot that they'd end up posted in chronological order, so they're about halfway down the first page, Asterdahl.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited July 2017
Feedback: Final Boss Partial Paralysis @asterdahl There are 2 attacks that apply this attack, Stinging Blade and Stinging Halo. Stinging Halo is not a problem, it is telegraphed and you have a fair amount of time to dodge it (I have a bit of a tough time, but my ping is very high, so I understand in a country with a lower ping it should be less of an issue.) However, as far as I can tell, Stinging Blade is not telegraphed and is very hard to deal with. I would add telegraphing to the attack, considering partial paralysis is the hardest mechanic in the dungeon.
jeffsliderMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 112Arc User
edited July 2017
FeedBack: Loot.
Gotta echo the loot in this dungeon like the others have. I've ran it 8 times now and I feel like for sure, changes need to be made from those rank 5's/perdiots for starters. It's really a top tier dungeon so it's must have top tier loot.
FeedBack: Dungeon on the whole.
I've already commented here in an earlier post but just updating as we did a recording of it. We've more or less have this dungeon understood pretty well but just didn't do the last boss as well as previous runs where we barely got hit or even died from his strongest move
This is so random, I've been in groups that we have not figure out the consistent way to do this particular puzzle. It's a pattern for sure, but the pattern is so random. I wish there was hints on the patterns. Not sure if this is really intended or just badly done.
Seeing how FBI and mSP were ignored, I guess horrible loot is WAI.
Lol yeah it may be WAI indeed.
FBI does hold it's own but MSP is a joke.
You dev's need to realize that you're wasting some of the dungeon potential by giving it poor loot.
We're there to adventure, we're there to enjoy the view, we're there to challenge ourselves, we're there to experience bosses and their mechanics, and there are those to go there to get the loot and exit ASAP.
You want us to come back? hell, we want to go back too! give us the initiative to do so and be sure we will.
Multiple stat enchants in a loot table is a great idea, I like it a lot. Please consider these before you move it to live.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Feedback loot: As it was already pointed out more then once I can agree on this point. I think this dungeon definetly needs something special as loot. It is the "final endgame dungeon" on its release but has nothing to offer for endgame players (except the seals). The same probelm we had with FBI and SP.
Yo @asterdahl diregarding feedback about horrible loot won't magically make us forget about it, it is a serious issue. I'm saying it again, loot currently is WAAI= working as asterdahl intends.
I gotta jump on the "poor loot" bandwagon on this one. Please don't make the same mistake you made with mSP. Poor loot = empty dungeon.
I have a hard time getting a full group together for MSPC, most of our guild is playing rocket league until mod 12 because the rewards are so bad for the effort, and if destiny 2 comes out before mod 12 you might be losing a huge portion of the PS4 crowd.
While we can't play on preview, we sure monitor it, you need to fix this, you already have people leaving in droves and donating all their stuff to the guild which loses you money for pres wards, coal wards, etc.
I finally got around to running the dungeon (too busy with work and a baby on the way ) , i liked the dungeon , the overall difficulty was just about the same as spellplague caverns. The avatar of orcus was a joke but in any case i never liked how you guys designed this boss fight (over here as well as cn) and i dont want to express my disdain any further, now the second boss .. hmm , there is something seriously wrong here, this cannot be what you guys envisioned. Its too incredibly easy and going to the extremes, horribly stupid. I liked the final boss fight, i had a gut feeling it was going to revolve around the yuan ti based on my experience on running around the jungles of chult, partial paralysis is nice mechanic , there are ways to get around it .. but it's not easy, as it should be. In any case i ran this dungeon with my friends and all of us are competent or in terms of ilvl (end game geared) and competent so the dungeon was a pleasant run. We ran this 9 times in a row and we averaged close to half an hour. I personally liked the puzzles , but my group didn't feel the same passion and i really thought there should have been a punishing mechanic to getting it wrong. Now comes the question of loot .. and most of this thread unanimously raised their voice in unison about how bad it is but i'm going to be brutally honest here and talk about my experiences with loot. I don't think i will ever be happy with how you roll the loot tables simple because when i run group content, i expect my group to be rewarded equally and not based on rng.. If i did solo things and obtained something worthwhile , that's fine, but i cannot tolerate it if a group who goes in and only 1 person manages to pull something good. I gamed your system during the ancient times and i did plenty of split runs simply because that's how it should have been and it felt good knowing all of us were getting a piece of that pie. I would never advocate anyone to do this nowadays simply because it would result in them getting banned. It's still possible to do split runs but it requires a lot of trust among the ppl you run with and also involves the use of the trade rather than plain ad..The individual turnover from a dungeon run is plain horrible. But unlike the other's who posted about loot i probably will never be happy with loot unless it rewards the entire group and not based on rng, it's a group effort after all.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
now the second boss .. hmm , there is something seriously wrong here, this cannot be what you guys envisioned. Its too incredibly easy and going to the extremes, horribly stupid.
I don't believe there's been a preview build released since it was confirmed this boss is broken in the current iteration.
oh ok thanks @beckylunatic, thats good to know.. it did feel broken
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited July 2017
Bug: Orcus temp hp buff.
Now that the buffs persist through death, if the party wipes, when you respawn the buff is still on your buff bar, but it grants 0 temp hp, which causes you to automatically fail the instance.
Feedback: Loot. Thanks for unbinding the loot in this dungeon.
Now that the buffs persist through death, if the party wipes, when you respawn the buff is still on your buff bar, but it grants 0 temp hp, which causes you to automatically fail the instance.
As @thefabricant said, if you wipe at the first boss, the temp hp debuff bugs out, meaning you keep the debuff icon, so nobody else can take it, but you. When you do this however, you get no temp hp, just a partial damage immunity + the heal immunity. I could disable 2 balls even with the bugged out temp hp, but once you reach the point when you have 3 balls spawning it's a guaranteed wipe.
The only way we could get rid of the bugged debuff, w/o restarting the dungeon, is by relogging, but that's not a solution, that's just another bug.
As for the loot, once ppl get the new armor pieces they want, the dungeon will be abandoned, which is a shame, since it's probably the best dungeons so far.
I haven't attempted to run any of the new Mod on preview as I'd like to shave something to enjoy when it comes out But could someone say if the unpopular paralysis effect dished out by the Final Boss in this new dungeon can be mitigated at all using Control Resist ? I don't try to max out anything in my characters but go for things that keep the game fun and entertaining instead. In this case, my CW has a Sylph as his summoned companion because I like having her around when I am playing. Her active bonus is 50% Control Resist which might actually be useful in the new dungeon IF the paralysis affect respects increased levels of Control Resist in the player...I might even dust off his Will 'O Wisp too if this is the case Has anyway checked this out or can @asterdahl chip in with some feedback on whether this was a consideration when the mechanic was introduced ? Control Resist of mobs and bad guys in general has made CC from characters pretty useless for some time, it would have been a nice bit of kharma if players were finally given the option of turning the tables with a similar ability. The consideration being that players can sacrifice some DPS for Control Resist so they have a better chance of surviving this particular fight. Just a thought :-)
Comments
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Imo it'd be worse to have a dungeon with awful loot than it would to have lag and some minor difficulty issues.
The cutscene of orcus leaves almost no time after until battle starts.
Traps have no leads, from the 3 traps my group found i only understood 1 of them.
From what i've seen of the loot this is just another dungeon to throw to the drawer, i don't even bother anymore honestly, i run eToS in 10 minutes, my expectancy for a run in this dungeon is 100 minutes, i can simply farm 10 times eToS across my chars to get massively more profit, equipment has nothing special either, pilgrim, historian regalia and vivified combination with guild boons and bondings will make the difference from 500IL to avg 470 meaningless, good aspect is within a year or so i'll be able to queue for it and run it.
While I have no plausible answer why ignoring feedbacks on a feedback forum is doing any good, the loot table might have some answer.
And this is a perceptional thing:
Tomb of the nine gods is just an another dungeon. It has some adjustment to be the hardest at the moment, to catch up with the scaling up average power-level of the player base, but that's all. It has no incentive to "tier up" the rewards as it does not tier up the difficulty. It adjusts difficulty in a way to punish mindless grind-throughs (with more or less success) and it had to take some necessary step-ups, but that's all. There's no more difference than an eToS compared eGWD.
I think (I did not take the time to run it like 50 times to see the average loot) it'll give more salvage in general, and who need the Primal gear will open the chests regardless and there will be a dungeon specific item and then the next mod steps in, with a harder dungeon and we just let this as a weekly 1 for the Kavatos quest.
It's just my opinion and still makes me write this feedback:
I can see that a Rank 5 or rare-uncommon refine material makes the reward better, but in the same time, it feels degrading. Please, do not toss coins in our face. Pay in paper or do not pay at all, because you are making the whole "open the chest" experience feel bad. The marginal difference it gives does not feel like a difference at all. It feels unrewarding in general and because it happens at the very end of the dungeon, it's defining the experience of the whole content, as this is the phase where you are getting the full view on it and trying to sum it up. And it's pretty pathetic to open a chest for the same stuff that drops in the dungeon for free (with like, Dragon's hoard enchantment or just getting an R5 for killing a mob).
Edit, Tomb is hard as hell and I like it
On the positive side:
- Those dungeons look good
- The bosses have interesting "new" mechanisms - it is not only a matter of just burning them as quickly as possible.
On the negative side:- The loot is bad. If you just calculate the expected earnout rate in, say, average AD sale value of unbound loot items divided by the time it takes to complete the dungeon, you will probably find that number to be quite low.
I have not yet heard of anyone getting anything that could be described as "great" loot from the new dungeon, and it seems to me that people will only want to run it for one reason, to get the seals required for the Primal gear, but that's it.If you dont want our feedback pls say so. 2 pages of ppl bringing up the loot issue and still no response. If u alrdy decided to not change the loot let us know.
1. The second boss is too easy at the moment, i can't wait to fight the fixed version of it.
2.The loot is not very tempting, which may lead to a few problems. After people reached the weekly seal-cap, most of them will stop to run it for this week. There also seems to be a disbalance between support- and dps-chars on the server. This will make it even more difficult for the dps-chars to find parties after the support-chars are capped on seals.
I would like to see the loottable changed, so it will be worth to run the dungeon after you reached the seal-cap.
If you don't want to make the dungeon more profiatble (for whatever reason), then adding account bound purple insignias to the campaign-chest would be a nice addition.
In my opinion:
-Delete the seal cap.
-Make the shop cap to retrieve 1 Primal item per week.
-Add some item for brave seal for a reasonable cost to spend the leftover seals for. Bound or not, it'd help to maintain the cost of running the dungeon in a not random way.
The dungeon maps are all very beautiful. We were all commenting on what a great job you guys have did creating this impressive looking dungeon, stopping to admire the detail during several points.
The large room when you first enter the temple is incredibly laggy. I assume it's due to the large open room filled with hordes of mobs. Please look into reducing the lag here by reducing the mobs in this room if that's what it takes. It left a terrible first impression for what is otherwise a great lead into the dungeon.
The puzzle/trap rooms are all very nice touches, and are really fun to coordinate if you are running with a team using voice chat like we did. I also like the little moments where players get punished with their deaths for wandering off and touching things, like when I decided to inspect the sleeping skeleton the throne. Moments like these are very “DnD,” and I definitely feel like this is the most DnD-like dungeon you guys have made so kudos to the team.
1st Boss:
Our team was stuck on this boss for the longest time. As we were having a lot of difficulty figuring out what we were supposed to do. This didn't help because of a couple of bugs which made things more confusing.
Bug: When clicking on the pedestals that give you curse descriptions, the curse explanation is given out in the “background talking NPC” GUI element. This was very bad as one of our teammembers had unknowingly had this GUI disabled, so was getting extremely frustrated with this room as she kept clicking on the objects but received “nothing”. Said party member was feeling left out of the teammwork moments since everyone else was receiving the clues just fine but we couldn't figure out why she didn't. I would suggest that any important information SHOULD NOT be solely delivered through this GUI.
Solution: When clicking on the clue objects, the player should be forced into the dialogue window where they can read the clue, thus eliminating the player from possibly missing important information.
Bug: The curses will sometimes disappear seconds after taking them, before we even enter the boss fight. We had no idea that this was a bug for a very long time since we had no idea what was or wasn't part of the design... but this definitely needs to be fixed ASAP because if the temp HP curse bugs and removes itself prematurely (which happened several times in our run) then it will make the fight unwinnable. This bug was also very frustrating as we had theorised the temp HP curse was supposed to jump on the spheres of annihilation, but because it had bugged out before the fight, the curse holder died and so we had thought we had drawn the wrong conclusion. THIS BUG MUST BE FIXED. NOT ONLY DOES IT MISLEAD PLAYERS FROM THE CORRECT SOLUTION IT ALSO MAKES THE FIGHT UNWINNABLE WHEN IT HAPPENS.
Our party all expressed disappointment when after exploring this completely brand new dungeon (one member was sure you would reuse assets from one of the discontinued dungeons before we started) the first boss they were greeted with was Orcus. This seemed like a let down as everyone was on a high with seeing how everything was brand new in this dungeon. Now, I understand that the Orcus fight in this is completely different, and I have read your explanation in this thread defending your addition of Orcus in the dungeon, but I must plead for you to understand that no matter how justified it is to add Orcus in the dungeon, players are only going to think “Oh, the devs have gotten lazy again and are reusing assets”. Yes that is an unfair assessment and it might sound like I'm being mean, but I am telling you this to help you understand what your players are going to think the moment they see Orcus.
Now of course it is too late for you to change the boss at this point, but this is something to take away and consider the next time you add a completely new experience and want to WOW your players.
2nd Boss:
We died a few times exploring this room and trying to understand the “gimmick” of this boss, before we just decided to pile in on the boss and burn him down, which lead us to beating him. We all commented that it seemed like we were over-thinking the boss.
From the comments I've read in this thread it seemed like the boss is currently bugged to not work correctly, so maybe once it's fixed we will need to apply the boss gimmicks. Though from what I can figure to play it “properly” seems like quite an ordeal, as you would need 1 team to attack the boss, while a team of 2 will have to run around killing dwarves, and it would need to be 2 to make sure the dwarf killer doesn't get killed by the Bigby's Hands.
3rd Boss:
I have to agree with the overall sentiment of the thread that the paralysis during this fight is TOO STRONG. Due to:
1) It is very hard for non tanks to avoid the attack that deals paralysis. It seems like you want non-tanks to hug the boss's back when he winds up the animation. But this is VERY HARD because the boss twists his back for the wind-up animation which confuses players where his “back” truly is (it's not like you can look at where the boss is planting his feet afterall).
2) There is no red-AoE to signal this attack which normally I would be okay with, but because all the various spell VFX and damage numbers fills the screen it makes it very hard to see the wind-up animation. Our group ended up setting our graphics all the way to low and some even removed damage numbers just so they can see the boss mechanics. THIS SHOULD NOT BE DESIRABLE PLAYER BEHAVIOUR.
3) I would suggest a halfway point to improve the visibility of this attack would be to add a purple aura to the boss as he winds up, and that the purple vfx of the sword swing makes it clearer where the attacks blindspot is behind him.
Getting hit by paralysis is a death sentence in itself as you can be stunned just as you try and run away from the platform tilting and die, get stunned while channelling a heal, getting detoggled, etc. Combined with how easy it is to get hit by the effect due the points I raised above it is a very punishing mechanic, especially for classes with long attack/spell animations. I would suggest a decrease in the severity of the paralysis, such as half the tick rate of what it currently has on stunning players.
The red AoE attack the bosses do where the player only has a thin strip to stand on to be safe seems comically thin. While it is possible to stand on the lines to be safe, that the width of the character models makes it look like they are outside of the safe-zone makes it look a little absurd. I would suggest widening the strips so it looks like most models could reasonably stand within the zones.
Chest Reward:
I have to agree with the thread sentiment that the chest rewards seem very disappointing. At the very least please replace the R5s from the loot table as it feels like an "unreward" after having been through the hardest dungeon.
Please add more incentive outside of grinding for Primal armor to run this dungeon (which will also mean this dungeon risks being dead once all the strong players have grinded out Primal gear). I point you to MSP, whose extreme difficulty for PUG teams combined with poor rewards (R5s in end chests!) meant that this dungeon was avoided by weak and strong players alike until the devs added fartouched residuum(spl?) drops.
Difficulty:
We completed the dungeon in 3 hours, 1 minute. Our team were all guildmembers, at 14k IL and using voice chat to help coordinate. We certainly aren't the bestest of the best players on the server: it takes us 25-30mins to complete fbi and 35-40 mins to complete MSP. We estimate that once we gotten used to the dungeon, we could probably do it in the 30-40 min range. The difficulty is for the most part, just right in the danger and challenge of the latest dungeon. My only concern is that if the difficulty of FBI and especially MSP are out of reach of the general NW population, then TotN is another dungeon in the line of new content that they will ignore. I'm not sure if the devs intend the new dungeon to be run only by the top 10% or if they are trying to get as much of the playerbase as they can onto the new dung, and level the playing field as what everything else seems to indicate about this mod.
Conclusion:
Overall I am very satisfied with the new dungeon. Our team enjoyed the challenge and looked forward to running it again. We'll definitely be back to check the 2nd boss when he is fixed.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
@asterdahl There are 2 attacks that apply this attack, Stinging Blade and Stinging Halo. Stinging Halo is not a problem, it is telegraphed and you have a fair amount of time to dodge it (I have a bit of a tough time, but my ping is very high, so I understand in a country with a lower ping it should be less of an issue.) However, as far as I can tell, Stinging Blade is not telegraphed and is very hard to deal with. I would add telegraphing to the attack, considering partial paralysis is the hardest mechanic in the dungeon.
Gotta echo the loot in this dungeon like the others have. I've ran it 8 times now and I feel like for sure, changes need to be made from those rank 5's/perdiots for starters. It's really a top tier dungeon so it's must have top tier loot.
FeedBack: Dungeon on the whole.
I've already commented here in an earlier post but just updating as we did a recording of it. We've more or less have this dungeon understood pretty well but just didn't do the last boss as well as previous runs where we barely got hit or even died from his strongest move
FeedBack: The Puzzle with the 6 items
This is so random, I've been in groups that we have not figure out the consistent way to do this particular puzzle. It's a pattern for sure, but the pattern is so random. I wish there was hints on the patterns. Not sure if this is really intended or just badly done.
@asterdahl sir you keep ignoring the feedback regarding the really bad loot.
FBI does hold it's own but MSP is a joke.
You dev's need to realize that you're wasting some of the dungeon potential by giving it poor loot.
We're there to adventure, we're there to enjoy the view, we're there to challenge ourselves, we're there to experience bosses and their mechanics, and there are those to go there to get the loot and exit ASAP.
You want us to come back? hell, we want to go back too! give us the initiative to do so and be sure we will.
Multiple stat enchants in a loot table is a great idea, I like it a lot.
Please consider these before you move it to live.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
As it was already pointed out more then once I can agree on this point. I think this dungeon definetly needs something special as loot. It is the "final endgame dungeon" on its release but has nothing to offer for endgame players (except the seals). The same probelm we had with FBI and SP.
While we can't play on preview, we sure monitor it, you need to fix this, you already have people leaving in droves and donating all their stuff to the guild which loses you money for pres wards, coal wards, etc.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Now that the buffs persist through death, if the party wipes, when you respawn the buff is still on your buff bar, but it grants 0 temp hp, which causes you to automatically fail the instance.
Feedback: Loot.
Thanks for unbinding the loot in this dungeon.
The only way we could get rid of the bugged debuff, w/o restarting the dungeon, is by relogging, but that's not a solution,
that's just another bug.
As for the loot, once ppl get the new armor pieces they want, the dungeon will be abandoned, which is a shame, since it's probably the best dungeons so far.