@ayroux Theres a difference between broken equipment/artifacts/enchantments and boons. Personally I wouldn't be too bothered if they took away the sh boons in domination but Id be really confused why they would take away all the other boons from the other campaigns.
Just trying to set up your stats perfectly would be such a pain in the !$@ if you had to do a respec of one or two loadouts and purposely not pick any boons just to see what your stats would be in DOM.
Oh this is very simple though.. You apply the same "code" to domination that removes boons/companions/potions to Trade of Blades so you can very easily go in there and see all your stats removed to set up a loadout! Or with custom Que, you can set up a private 1v1 with a buddy and go test your stats too. Thats not a problem at all.
Im not sure I follow. Those things werent broken, in fact they were working as intended, however they didnt realize that how they intended them to work would be so overpowered.
In the same way I would argue that the boons are working as intended, but at this point, 12 modules down the road, the boons represent too much "stats" that cannot be overcome with skill in PVP.
Right now, Gear/Boons/Pots ALL > Skill. Skill hardly factors into the equation at all anymore unless players are equally geared. When you allow gear and stats to give you SUCH an edge in PVP - I see this as the same thing. Its "overpowered".
The difference between a "best in slot" player and an "average" player should be maybe ~20% swing in "power advantage" but in Neverwinter its easily over 400%...
The main 2 culrpits of this are: 1) Boons 2) Potions
In fact, add up all the stats boons provide. We would have to make assumptions about SOME of them that provide effects not stats but how many would you have? 15k? 20k? more stats from campaign boons? Then we add another 16k from SH boons (offense + defense)
So boons are providing atleast 30k+ stats in PVP. This is the equivalent of 42+ Rank 12 enchants.... Potions provide about 38 rank 12s when you add ALL of them.
So this means that the combination of campaign + SH boons + Pots is giving you about 80 rank 12 enchants.
How can a new player overcome this with "skill", how can even the average player overcome this level of gear gap. Even assuming they have HALF the boons and are in a average SH... And maybe they use a few potions... Your still talking 40? 50? rank 12s in "advantage".
This is why PVP is so broken... Because the amount of sheer "power" via stats you can have over other players. Neverwinter has one of the biggest gear gap discrepancies in any MMO I have seen. There is always a "BIS" level but in games like WOW, ESO, Guild Wars, Warhammer, you name it... I havnt seen a game where a BIS level player like this can just completely annihilate without really any skill just due to sheer gear...
We can debate all day what is fair. Im not trying to argue if its "fair or not" to ask people to give up hard earned things like boons. I am merely saying the ONLY way to revive PVP and make it competitive again, to bring in MORE players, to bring BACK players that have left - is to remove this major barrier to entry.... Boons+Pots.
@ayroux well, after watching 300k HP healings, i thought that 30k per heal tick is nice (imo), but you're right in certain sense: i've watch these amounts on BiS vs BiS matches, not on "regular" ones... so, i think that a good idea would be make a "progressive heal depression" based on IL: the lower, the better heals do you get/do.
But think about this and using my PoV: right now, even under HD, we are watching 300ks heals on PvP besides "self sustain" (insignias, LS + Endless, etc), this means that on PvP we are healing for 600k+ [i think the biggest heal i saw on PvP was like over 600ks this means that that DC healed for 1.2M...] . Do you really think that those amounts (300ks) with 50% on HD are correct? Not from my PoV, sorry, because those amounts just make teams immortals and, from my PoV, heals must be "impactful" on teamfights not "game breaking"...
eDIT: i love when i "send" by mistake. U_U
About GFs... its obvious that the class is overperforming and needs a tone down, mainly, on their base damage on the whole class (it has one of the best ones of the whole game, GWFs is the 3rd from the botton only surpased by TRs and DCs or SWs [if i remember correctly. BTW, the base damage of TRs should get a buff, IMO, and make it the best one of the whole game]).
About enchants... well... it depends on how they work. I agree that Feytouched needs a fix soon as also, needs a nerf on its uptime.
I dont disagree with your POV and that healing is too much, I merely disagree with the "solution" to merely increase heal depression. The SOLUTION IMO is to remove boons + potions in PVP, removing tens of thousands of stats.
The reason we see such high numbers like this, is because of power creep, well in this game its been more like a Power Sprint not a creep. Each module brings thousands of more stats. Over 12 modules now, including SH boons, its just SOOO many stats... Remove all these stats, it removes things like Endless Consumption - that provides WAY too much lifesteal. It removes lifesteal STATs itself! Which reduces self healing, it removes TONS of power, crit, arp that ALL provide more damage, it removes HP, etc.
The issue isnt the "base powers" themselves, those largely work the same as they always have (with some minor tweaks through the years ofcourse) but its the stat inflation that causes these massive numbers.
So I agree - healing (especially SELF HEALING) needs to be tonned down, but the solution IMO is remove the boon/potion power creep, not heal depression.
We agree on GF. I would love to see their damage nerfed a bit. I think they SHOULD provide things like tankiness, CC, Utility (ITF), stuff but their damage just puts them over the top.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Oh this is very simple though.. You apply the same "code" to domination that removes boons/companions/potions to Trade of Blades so you can very easily go in there and see all your stats removed to set up a loadout! Or with custom Que, you can set up a private 1v1 with a buddy and go test your stats too. Thats not a problem at all.
I don't inherently object to the idea of making a mock-PvP test environment*, buuuuuut if using the Trade of Blades to do so, it would require creation of another test environment available to players who are not 70 and not in a guild.
A door in the trade of blades that opens a 'training room' where you can spar with someone else? I like that.
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Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
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Im not sure I follow. Those things werent broken, in fact they were working as intended, however they didnt realize that how they intended them to work would be so overpowered.
In the same way I would argue that the boons are working as intended, but at this point, 12 modules down the road, the boons represent too much "stats" that cannot be overcome with skill in PVP.
Right now, Gear/Boons/Pots ALL > Skill. Skill hardly factors into the equation at all anymore unless players are equally geared. When you allow gear and stats to give you SUCH an edge in PVP - I see this as the same thing. Its "overpowered".
The difference between a "best in slot" player and an "average" player should be maybe ~20% swing in "power advantage" but in Neverwinter its easily over 400%...
The main 2 culrpits of this are:
1) Boons
2) Potions
In fact, add up all the stats boons provide. We would have to make assumptions about SOME of them that provide effects not stats but how many would you have? 15k? 20k? more stats from campaign boons?
Then we add another 16k from SH boons (offense + defense)
So boons are providing atleast 30k+ stats in PVP. This is the equivalent of 42+ Rank 12 enchants....
Potions provide about 38 rank 12s when you add ALL of them.
So this means that the combination of campaign + SH boons + Pots is giving you about 80 rank 12 enchants.
How can a new player overcome this with "skill", how can even the average player overcome this level of gear gap. Even assuming they have HALF the boons and are in a average SH... And maybe they use a few potions... Your still talking 40? 50? rank 12s in "advantage".
This is why PVP is so broken... Because the amount of sheer "power" via stats you can have over other players. Neverwinter has one of the biggest gear gap discrepancies in any MMO I have seen. There is always a "BIS" level but in games like WOW, ESO, Guild Wars, Warhammer, you name it... I havnt seen a game where a BIS level player like this can just completely annihilate without really any skill just due to sheer gear...
We can debate all day what is fair. Im not trying to argue if its "fair or not" to ask people to give up hard earned things like boons. I am merely saying the ONLY way to revive PVP and make it competitive again, to bring in MORE players, to bring BACK players that have left - is to remove this major barrier to entry.... Boons+Pots.
The reason we see such high numbers like this, is because of power creep, well in this game its been more like a Power Sprint not a creep. Each module brings thousands of more stats. Over 12 modules now, including SH boons, its just SOOO many stats... Remove all these stats, it removes things like Endless Consumption - that provides WAY too much lifesteal. It removes lifesteal STATs itself! Which reduces self healing, it removes TONS of power, crit, arp that ALL provide more damage, it removes HP, etc.
The issue isnt the "base powers" themselves, those largely work the same as they always have (with some minor tweaks through the years ofcourse) but its the stat inflation that causes these massive numbers.
So I agree - healing (especially SELF HEALING) needs to be tonned down, but the solution IMO is remove the boon/potion power creep, not heal depression.
We agree on GF. I would love to see their damage nerfed a bit. I think they SHOULD provide things like tankiness, CC, Utility (ITF), stuff but their damage just puts them over the top.
*I support better test environments for everyone.
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Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
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