I'm still trying to figure out how the hell PvP became so damn important in a wait for it.......Dungeons & Dragons based computer game. It's always been a solo or party based PvE game since the days of desktop D&D. There were some things that were tried by TSR to do some things like PvP but I've never heard of them working and were nerfed. If they don't permanently add soloQ, as soon as I get the Glory needed for the one lousy PvP structure we need for the guild I'm in, I won't even try to bother with it again. In a previous comment on this thread someone had stated that it is basically dead now and I think they are right. The PvE is and always should be more important in a game such as this especially since that is what the D&D worlds were developed for.df
I'm still trying to figure out how the hell PvP became so damn important in a wait for it.......Dungeons & Dragons based computer game. It's always been a solo or party based PvE game since the days of desktop D&D. There were some things that were tried by TSR to do some things like PvP but I've never heard of them working and were nerfed. If they don't permanently add soloQ, as soon as I get the Glory needed for the one lousy PvP structure we need for the guild I'm in, I won't even try to bother with it again. In a previous comment on this thread someone had stated that it is basically dead now and I think they are right. The PvE is and always should be more important in a game such as this especially since that is what the D&D worlds were developed for.df
Yeah this is very fair, however unbeknownst to the DEVs, they created a true diamond of a PVP game. The simplistic encounter/at will design of a few abilities, coupled with cooldowns - mimics the "Overwatch" esq simplicity that everyone LOVES to pick up as its very inviting and friendly and allows you to feel you can pick up a character and play him very quickly/easily.... While at the same time, hidden within the character customization is a deep "difficult to master" itemization as well as that same concept applying to the combat system itself where kills can be very rewarding, and countering other players builds, moves, abilities, at the same time striving for control over domination points.... It really has something "special" to offer and MANY players came to this game, invested $ into it, and fell inlove with it for its PVP.
When this game was at its peak in population (and profits mind you) There were TONS of people on twitch streaming PVP. The Russian NW server, was even more "harcore" with its PVP.
The issue, is that PVP players, invested SO much in their characters and this game, its made it very difficult to leave.. I know some that have invested thousands... As in plural (meaning more than 1).
It has ALOT of things going for it, that attract PVPers.... Its a shame its fallen so far from its "roots".
I recall a time, where I would get on during Dungeon Delves (which I still think is genius BTW as it "rallies" the community to all do the same thing at the same time). We would run T2 dungeons for T2 gear, in which, not only was it the BIS gear to USE... it was also sellable, which created a very healthy and fun place to play. Doing dungeons = profit. Doing dungeons = how you gear for both PVE and PVP. It didnt require "RP" or "dailies". Then you would Que up for PVP, and never knew what you would get! It was awesome. The population was large enough that you would occasionally meet people who were very formidable opponents you had never met before. You might bump into a premade, in which it would intice you to make your own and challenge them! The premade scene was very healthy, even hosting tournaments both on the live server and the PTR - which was streamed and brought in even MORE players and MORE profits for the game.
But the key was, the PVP went "hand in hand" with PVE. The gear needed for PVP was farmed/earned through doing DUNGEON runs. There were not "tenacity" that forced you to have separate gear or enchants... Sure builds and stats varied, but even the most hardcore PVE players were still solid opponents in PVP , able to hold their own.
it was a good time...
Then came the modules. Module 1 was largely a success. It brought new gear, new dungeon, with new BIS gear earned THROUGH that dungeon. It gave us something more to do for a while.... However then we started to fall deeper down the rabbit hole... Module 2 brought "artifacts" and needing "RP" to level them. No longer was BIS gear "dropped". You now had to get these and spend currency to level them up - creating a "pay wall" for PVP. You also saw broken items like the Emblem which made PVP a "Emblem or GTFO" type of game... Forcing players to spend 6M AD on these for a GREEN item, and it alone would allow a player to take on several opponents and win. Also, with this it started to create a "gap" between players. This is where I had to choose.... Before this, I played SEVERAL classes and had decent gear on them all and was able to compete in PVP on any of them, depending on my mood.... Mod 2 made me focus on just 1 of them due to the high AD cost and time demand to do the dailies.
Mod 3+ broke the camels back, and we have not recovered since... More boons, more gear gap, now "tenactiy" creates a "gear divide" permanently separating the PVE and PVP player base... Companions completely ruined any open world PVP. Overpowered GWF/HR builds that were unkillable and dominated domination so much so, that the only moderately non GWF/HR class that could even play PVP was a TR - who didnt even fight but contested nodes 24/7 without dying...
Since then, it has never recovered..... I dont understand how they dont look at this timeline and think.... Hmmm... maybe we took the wrong path. Maybe "dailies" were not the best idea. Maybe deviating from having Dungeons the main focus... wasnt a good idea. Maybe having to level gear up, compared to just having it drop... wasnt a good idea... maybe having a "divide" in gear for PVE and PVP player bases... wasnt a good idea.
The PVP solution is simple. Go back to when it was good. The "HOW" is simple as well. - Every character currently has 10% base tenacity. Increase this to the current levels and remove tenacity as a stat on gear. This brings us BACK to "PVE offers the best PVP gear" which ENCOURAGES more people to play PVE AND PVP.
- Next would be to REMOVE all the boons in PVP. This has created a massive gap between the average player and the seasoned VET. The boons make up more stats than all your gear combined and cant even be farmed... they are time gated.. so even once someone hits lvl 70, they have no hope in being "competitive" for atleast a month of playing every. single. day.... Even many "retired" players list the boons as the #1 reason they dont want to come back. They dont want to do daily quests that are all largely boring and repetitive, every day, just to eventually be competitive after farming their boons for weeks, if not months....
There are others, that have been written about all over these forums (such as mounts and overloads, etc.), so I wont write more, but this is the direction this game needs to go, and unless it stops trying to "money grab" from its players by sticking to this "RP for gear" system.... itll never re-populate back to former levels... Which BTW, it STILL COULD, if it went back to the EXCELLENT game model this game used to be before all the modules screwed it all up.
Put the focus on dungeons, remove the "gear gap" not only between PVE and PVP but the "casual PVPer" vs the "Veteran PVPer". This is what will #MakeNeverwinterGreatAgain!
I'm still trying to figure out how the hell PvP became so damn important in a wait for it.......Dungeons & Dragons based computer game. It's always been a solo or party based PvE game since the days of desktop D&D. There were some things that were tried by TSR to do some things like PvP but I've never heard of them working and were nerfed. If they don't permanently add soloQ, as soon as I get the Glory needed for the one lousy PvP structure we need for the guild I'm in, I won't even try to bother with it again. In a previous comment on this thread someone had stated that it is basically dead now and I think they are right. The PvE is and always should be more important in a game such as this especially since that is what the D&D worlds were developed for.df
Nah , my first experiance with table top RPG was in scholl, 2 masters started a week long campaing (was a week for any social or cultural activity, we enter as a team, in last quest we got the same "contract and at some poit the partys clashed, the masters worked together and we had to pass our actions on paper for them before acting, some actions went in secret, like our ilusionist trap, was a really fun fight, we decide to keep the other party alive in the end, most off them at least...
was really fun, and was some kind of pvp on D&D tabletop
the problem with neverwinter pvp is that he's broken, really broken...
tenacity is a weird thing that keep almost any pve player away from pvp and the classes are not balanced for a fair fight, plus there's no kind of tier, so in the end we get a lot of one sided matches...
the Solo queue dont solve this but at least make it random...
why not have both? Have a Team queue and solo queue.... Teams/Guilds will need a way to play together and challenge other Teams/Guilds in PvP... And Players who don't want to end up in that crossfire also need also need a random solo queue which results in a 5v5 randomly picked completely separate from the team queue.
why not have both? Have a Team queue and solo queue.... Teams/Guilds will need a way to play together and challenge other Teams/Guilds in PvP... And Players who don't want to end up in that crossfire also need also need a random solo queue which results in a 5v5 randomly picked completely separate from the team queue.
That would make too much sense. Cryptic can only make one group of players happy at a time. Pvp, this is not your mod. The next mod is not looking too good, either.
As far as the solo Q, they seem to be able to turn it on and off like an event, I am not sure who would not like this on as an option all the time....turn it on and set the calendar out to 2099 please!
I think ayroux makes some good points about the transition of the PvP. When the only place to get gear was from the dungeons and before R12 enchants and guild boons and campaign boons everywhere, there was much less diversity between the characters and I think a much smaller gap in the Gear Score from the gear of today's game and it made it much more about the play strategy and not about the BiS gear.... Not that this is a PvP game, but PvP can be fun and a nice change from the daily grind.
When the only place to get gear was from the dungeons and before R12 enchants and guild boons and campaign boons everywhere, there was much less diversity between the characters and I think a much smaller gap in the Gear Score from the gear of today's game and it made it much more about the play strategy and not about the BiS gear.... Not that this is a PvP game, but PvP can be fun and a nice change from the daily grind.
This exactly. They need to lessen the "gear gap" and the only way to do this IMO is to strip all the boons/mounts/insignias etc out of PVP.
This creates a minimal gear gap situation where solo Que and premades and stuff dont matter as much.... Solo Que doesnt fix the issue, its a bandaid that long term will ensure PVP will never get what it REALLY needs. Thats why I have opposed it.
Solo Que will make PVP APPEAR like its "fine" when the reality is, its not.
When the only place to get gear was from the dungeons and before R12 enchants and guild boons and campaign boons everywhere, there was much less diversity between the characters and I think a much smaller gap in the Gear Score from the gear of today's game and it made it much more about the play strategy and not about the BiS gear.... Not that this is a PvP game, but PvP can be fun and a nice change from the daily grind.
This exactly. They need to lessen the "gear gap" and the only way to do this IMO is to strip all the boons/mounts/insignias etc out of PVP.
This creates a minimal gear gap situation where solo Que and premades and stuff dont matter as much.... Solo Que doesnt fix the issue, its a bandaid that long term will ensure PVP will never get what it REALLY needs. Thats why I have opposed it.
Solo Que will make PVP APPEAR like its "fine" when the reality is, its not.
Im sorry but what "long term"? The game is already 4 years old and pvp has only gotten worse. Cryptic has established that there is no long term with them. There is only the current patch and maybe the next one. And the current situation is bad as it was a year ago, 2 years ago, 3 yeas ago etc. PVP used to be rly fun and competitive way back in the pre tenacity gear days when most people who queued were very similar in gear and overall character power. We've been having the same discussions here over and over and what did that get us? Class balance still bad, gear gap bigger than ever. Only one pvp mode alive (just barely at that) and the same 20 people in all the queues. If the game was a living thing the doctors would have cut off the tumor that is pvp already.
They could also implement queues that take into account gear and boons. SO you get to keep your uber gear and boons but get matched against similarly geared players. I think WoW does this.
Also once they normalize things like this or with the other suggestions above, and make it more fair, and gather more data -- then start to gather W/L data on people and Matchmaker based on performance in PvP and skill level.
Please at least try to test it again during the summer at least. Maybe the festival. It brings back a lot of older players that quit and may swell up the soloQ to truly exhibit its potential.
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
Please at least try to test it again during the summer at least. Maybe the festival. It brings back a lot of older players that quit and may swell up the soloQ to truly exhibit its potential.
This is a really bad idea. Players are too busy farming pigs for alts during the summer event. Tacking a PvP event onto that is a recipe for failure. Luckily on this thread:
... there is a plan to roll out the solo-queue on a "more recurring basis." Whether that means permanent... even the devs don't likely know at this point It IS positive change, tho.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
">"Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.
The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.
removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.
"
The queue is the biggest obstacle to PVP. If you play enough the equipment will come but Pick-up_groups (PUGs) never have a chance and it is no fun.... even for well geared players.
So, make Solo Queues perm and I believe the rest will follow.
Comments
When this game was at its peak in population (and profits mind you) There were TONS of people on twitch streaming PVP. The Russian NW server, was even more "harcore" with its PVP.
The issue, is that PVP players, invested SO much in their characters and this game, its made it very difficult to leave.. I know some that have invested thousands... As in plural (meaning more than 1).
It has ALOT of things going for it, that attract PVPers.... Its a shame its fallen so far from its "roots".
I recall a time, where I would get on during Dungeon Delves (which I still think is genius BTW as it "rallies" the community to all do the same thing at the same time). We would run T2 dungeons for T2 gear, in which, not only was it the BIS gear to USE... it was also sellable, which created a very healthy and fun place to play. Doing dungeons = profit. Doing dungeons = how you gear for both PVE and PVP. It didnt require "RP" or "dailies". Then you would Que up for PVP, and never knew what you would get! It was awesome. The population was large enough that you would occasionally meet people who were very formidable opponents you had never met before. You might bump into a premade, in which it would intice you to make your own and challenge them! The premade scene was very healthy, even hosting tournaments both on the live server and the PTR - which was streamed and brought in even MORE players and MORE profits for the game.
But the key was, the PVP went "hand in hand" with PVE. The gear needed for PVP was farmed/earned through doing DUNGEON runs. There were not "tenacity" that forced you to have separate gear or enchants... Sure builds and stats varied, but even the most hardcore PVE players were still solid opponents in PVP , able to hold their own.
it was a good time...
Then came the modules. Module 1 was largely a success. It brought new gear, new dungeon, with new BIS gear earned THROUGH that dungeon. It gave us something more to do for a while.... However then we started to fall deeper down the rabbit hole... Module 2 brought "artifacts" and needing "RP" to level them. No longer was BIS gear "dropped". You now had to get these and spend currency to level them up - creating a "pay wall" for PVP. You also saw broken items like the Emblem which made PVP a "Emblem or GTFO" type of game... Forcing players to spend 6M AD on these for a GREEN item, and it alone would allow a player to take on several opponents and win. Also, with this it started to create a "gap" between players. This is where I had to choose.... Before this, I played SEVERAL classes and had decent gear on them all and was able to compete in PVP on any of them, depending on my mood.... Mod 2 made me focus on just 1 of them due to the high AD cost and time demand to do the dailies.
Mod 3+ broke the camels back, and we have not recovered since... More boons, more gear gap, now "tenactiy" creates a "gear divide" permanently separating the PVE and PVP player base... Companions completely ruined any open world PVP. Overpowered GWF/HR builds that were unkillable and dominated domination so much so, that the only moderately non GWF/HR class that could even play PVP was a TR - who didnt even fight but contested nodes 24/7 without dying...
Since then, it has never recovered..... I dont understand how they dont look at this timeline and think.... Hmmm... maybe we took the wrong path. Maybe "dailies" were not the best idea. Maybe deviating from having Dungeons the main focus... wasnt a good idea. Maybe having to level gear up, compared to just having it drop... wasnt a good idea... maybe having a "divide" in gear for PVE and PVP player bases... wasnt a good idea.
The PVP solution is simple. Go back to when it was good. The "HOW" is simple as well.
- Every character currently has 10% base tenacity. Increase this to the current levels and remove tenacity as a stat on gear. This brings us BACK to "PVE offers the best PVP gear" which ENCOURAGES more people to play PVE AND PVP.
- Next would be to REMOVE all the boons in PVP. This has created a massive gap between the average player and the seasoned VET. The boons make up more stats than all your gear combined and cant even be farmed... they are time gated.. so even once someone hits lvl 70, they have no hope in being "competitive" for atleast a month of playing every. single. day.... Even many "retired" players list the boons as the #1 reason they dont want to come back. They dont want to do daily quests that are all largely boring and repetitive, every day, just to eventually be competitive after farming their boons for weeks, if not months....
There are others, that have been written about all over these forums (such as mounts and overloads, etc.), so I wont write more, but this is the direction this game needs to go, and unless it stops trying to "money grab" from its players by sticking to this "RP for gear" system.... itll never re-populate back to former levels... Which BTW, it STILL COULD, if it went back to the EXCELLENT game model this game used to be before all the modules screwed it all up.
Put the focus on dungeons, remove the "gear gap" not only between PVE and PVP but the "casual PVPer" vs the "Veteran PVPer". This is what will #MakeNeverwinterGreatAgain!
was really fun, and was some kind of pvp on D&D tabletop
the problem with neverwinter pvp is that he's broken, really broken...
tenacity is a weird thing that keep almost any pve player away from pvp and the classes are not balanced for a fair fight, plus there's no kind of tier, so in the end we get a lot of one sided matches...
the Solo queue dont solve this but at least make it random...
I think ayroux makes some good points about the transition of the PvP. When the only place to get gear was from the dungeons and before R12 enchants and guild boons and campaign boons everywhere, there was much less diversity between the characters and I think a much smaller gap in the Gear Score from the gear of today's game and it made it much more about the play strategy and not about the BiS gear.... Not that this is a PvP game, but PvP can be fun and a nice change from the daily grind.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
This creates a minimal gear gap situation where solo Que and premades and stuff dont matter as much.... Solo Que doesnt fix the issue, its a bandaid that long term will ensure PVP will never get what it REALLY needs. Thats why I have opposed it.
Solo Que will make PVP APPEAR like its "fine" when the reality is, its not.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Also once they normalize things like this or with the other suggestions above, and make it more fair, and gather more data -- then start to gather W/L data on people and Matchmaker based on performance in PvP and skill level.
@nitocris83
Please at least try to test it again during the summer at least. Maybe the festival. It brings back a lot of older players that quit and may swell up the soloQ to truly exhibit its potential.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/categories/player-feedback-pc
... there is a plan to roll out the solo-queue on a "more recurring basis." Whether that means permanent... even the devs don't likely know at this point
So, make Solo Queues perm and I believe the rest will follow.
Urlord
the problem will still be the same : high level players will still destroy everything
cut the level 70 in half and no gear change inside, that's it
so low gear will go against their kind and have a chance to have a good fight
I'm almost best in slot on my main and I still see players with green/blue/purple pve gear ... I am not trolling