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Buffs and debuffs need a tonedown

defiantone99defiantone99 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,634 Arc User
You have all of these people wanting to nerf class damage and survivability, but they ignore the elephant in the room. It is buffs and debuffs that have trivialized the game. You can see this in all of these speedrun videos popping up everywhere. The bosses die in seconds, the trash is not even allowed to move before it is dead. It is time to bring this game to a place where it takes skill and effort to complete content. There is no "skill" involved in speedruns. It is buffs, debuffs and bugs, that is all. Fix the bugs, fix the buffs and debuffs, improve the rewards.
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Comments

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    SKILL and effort i can in any class to kill the trash before the debuffs apply did you know that?
    OR some classes self effectiveness combo is too strong that can solo a boss not in 10 seconds but in 20-30 seconds.
    THAT is without debuffs-buffs.
    And you were against to the adjustment on lifesteal when you can instant heal from 0 to hero.( skill and effort)
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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User

    Videos please, I want to see your mastery of all classes. But, you can't use lifesteal.....

    play with me is more simple than a video.
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  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,435 Arc User
    I enjoy melting everything in seconds. I also enjoy taking hours to run FBI. You don't like your runs, adjust your team. The game is forever evolving and the fixes are like potholes dodge one and hit 2 (fix 1 make 2 more)

    There will always be some groups doing runs faster and easier than others. It's the nature of the game, If everyone is to build their unique characters. If you want to streamline the available ways to build toons so everyone has the same builds, then ya, you might be able to steer this in a different direction. However it would be my suggestion to run with the team you want to run with and who shares you views so you can share the gaming experience...

    If something is really broken and being exploited by all means make the adjustments but don't call nerf, we all know how that's turned out in the past...

    My 2 cents.
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User

    SKILL and effort i can in any class to kill the trash before the debuffs apply did you know that?
    OR some classes self effectiveness combo is too strong that can solo a boss not in 10 seconds but in 20-30 seconds.
    THAT is without debuffs-buffs.
    And you were against to the adjustment on lifesteal when you can instant heal from 0 to hero.( skill and effort)

    Is this actually a thing? Afaik solo times on T2 bosses are more like 5-8 minutes.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User

    You have all of these people wanting to nerf class damage and survivability, but they ignore the elephant in the room. It is buffs and debuffs that have trivialized the game. You can see this in all of these speedrun videos popping up everywhere. The bosses die in seconds, the trash is not even allowed to move before it is dead. It is time to bring this game to a place where it takes skill and effort to complete content. There is no "skill" involved in speedruns. It is buffs, debuffs and bugs, that is all. Fix the bugs, fix the buffs and debuffs, improve the rewards.

    90k power 90% critical resist ignore 60% and recharge speed from insignia bonus because of the power. YES just i described you an average bis cw dps spec. Tell me now you believe that player need buff-debuffs to do trivialise the content? I WILL tell you maybe with top buff debuff will need 1 button to clear everything and without buff debuff will do 1 rotation.
    BOTH cases is trivialise content.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    If u dont need skill for it then show us a 11 min fbi run of yourself defiatone.

    Edit: btw did u notice that all those speedruns contain an GWF as dps. The class with the most selfbuffs in the game by far... just saying ;)
  • lowenduslowendus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    What are you talking about ? lol!

    Bondings are the elephant in the room, no matter how much everybody turns a blind eye on them.

    Toons with 100K (a hamsterload vs current content) power need no buffs or debuffs, stuff just dies by the time they are in effect.

    And before you say anything about bondings, I use them, and still think they're way overpowered and they're trivialising content.

    They need to be toned down a bit and maybe then buffs, debuffs, correct power rotations and positioning (not facetanking red areas) will be of critical importance in doing content, especially end game.

    Maybe then skill will be finally in effect.

    Wasting a good buff or debuff ahead of time will then play some role into succeeding or failing a fight

    I see dc's, ops and gfs spamming their spells for no reason, or at the same time instead of chain casting one after the other expires, because...you know...they won't need them to buff their team during the fight.

    So...they blow cooldowns for which you'd otherwise stack a metric ton of recovery for and if failing to cast at the proper time would result in a not so favorable outcome.

    Thinking about how and when to cast, engage a skill and make a difference in a fight is real skill in my humble oppinion, it is just not necessary anymore because of bondings, not buffs and debuffs, Cap everybody's power at 30Kish and see how the game changes face.

    Edit: For the record, I can reach 54K power alone with 2 perfect, 1 greater bonding and insignia bonusses, I repeat, alone just hitting the dummies to test stuff...if that's not too much what is ?

    I agree with @mamalion1234
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I have an idea. Let's make a change: every class has the same abilities, same powers, the difference will be only cosmetics. Maybe then we won't see the nerfs/balance crying here. Or maybe we should only have one class.
  • evilsquirrel03evilsquirrel03 Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    I have an idea. Let's make a change: every class has the same abilities, same powers, the difference will be only cosmetics. Maybe then we won't see the nerfs/balance crying here. Or maybe we should only have one class.

    That seems to be the way we're going by turning every class into a DPS machine.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    AND i forgot to say some of the speed runs they had a bug got fix( commander strike-cleric stack million power-orcus set some examples)
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  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Or we could have different Tiers for every dungeon. It is a no brainer, that BIS chars are OP in dungeons with a min IL of 1-3k.

    As it is, you can either form a random group with some decent players, wing it and fail or collect a perfect combo for speed runs.

    More nerfs would not result in a lower difference in skill/gear between BIS groups and average players, but in a lower chance of average groups, to complete a dungeon.

    Before NWO I did progress raids in another MMO for a few years. 12 players. Every player had to have the perfect gear and perfect build, to complete the HM dungeons. TS was a must have. Min 3 days a week 3-5h raid time. Gearing up in your spare time. You HAMSTER up, you get dumped. You are a no show without an explanation, you get dumped. If a player left, you needed a few weeks, to train his replacement.

    This game is for casual gamers. Every group with above mentioned tactics will make a joke of every available dungeon. Otherwise 95% of the players would never complete the dungeons.

    PS looking forward to the 'tone down', 'elitism' and other rage posts, if PW ever would implement a dungeon with this kind of difficulty.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • hudman21hudman21 Member Posts: 276 Arc User
    How about the game content gets brought up to the gear, boons, bonding's and enchant current levels !?!
    Mods keep upgrading players IL scores but the content remains mainly unchanged.
    Life is full of drains, I prefer to be a fountain
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  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User

    You have all of these people wanting to nerf class damage and survivability, but they ignore the elephant in the room. It is buffs and debuffs that have trivialized the game. You can see this in all of these speedrun videos popping up everywhere. The bosses die in seconds, the trash is not even allowed to move before it is dead. It is time to bring this game to a place where it takes skill and effort to complete content. There is no "skill" involved in speedruns. It is buffs, debuffs and bugs, that is all. Fix the bugs, fix the buffs and debuffs, improve the rewards.

    Fully agree. And to Tom, speedruns use GWFs because they nicely scale with buff/debuffs.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    are they then.. going to adjust the amount of AD we earn by run to adjust to any such nerfs?

    You trust them to do this.. to make around a million AD a week , it takes approx 1.5 hours a day x 7 days.. you want to take and prolong said encounters by what? triple? quadruple time?

    or they going to fix some of the costing to adjust?

    All of these factors have to be weighed accordingly.

    Bondings by themselves are around 1 hg..

    so.. again.. nefing bondings doesnt do that much in reality.


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  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    LoL your arguments dont make any sence xD
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    @gabrieldourden
    Hmm i wasnt aware that GWFs have a mechanic to better scale with buffs then other classes. Can u enlighten me how that works? So bts on a GWF gives 50% buff and on other classes just normal 30%. How did i never notice that xD.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    > @tom#6998 said:
    > @gabrieldourden
    > Hmm i wasnt aware that GWFs have a mechanic to better scale with buffs then other classes. Can u enlighten me how that works? So bts on a GWF gives 50% buff and on other classes just normal 30%. How did i never notice that xD.

    Then look harder XD
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Mod 12: Elemental Eviler
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    That would be great. But no arpen bugs
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    If a level cap raise were in the cards, they would almost certainly force you to grind out new gear. After the SoMI legacy gear nerf, most likely not only would your existing gear not be upgraded, it would probably be nerfed to prevent it from ever being desirable again. However, I would be surprised if the level cap gets raised again. The fallout from the last time was too much and from all indications, the studio isn't swimming in funds. We've already been warned that the TR rebalancing will likely not involve comprehensive changes. I feel that power is out of control but remain very pessimistic regarding any long term solutions. This despite the fact that I am mostly pleased with mod 11 and recent Dec actions, but the glory days are probably behind us now. YMMV
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User

    I am interested in hearing alternative proposals, but not the ones of just adding 4.3k dungeons or nerfing GWF.

    why are harder dungeons such a bad idea?

This discussion has been closed.