@defiantone99 that's why they need to add a buff chart. If a dc made me do this much more damage it should put that in a buffed damage score on the leaderboards. paingiver is true DPS hands down. I even consider movement speed to be more dps. I understand that there's a lot that effects paingiver and that why I say FBI and not CN because fbi is more team oriented. Going back to that link. The TR can only debuff a single enemy at a time 31% and a HR can do that with thorn ward that and that's AoE. The GWF as well but its only around 15% and that's even AoE. Even if they added the buffed dmg score the TR will fall short once again. The only thing that I can say about my TR is that I can make 1 enemy do 55% less dmg which is very helpful if you're fighting a boss and your tank is a lower item lvl. That post you linked is to make lower lvl Ppl feel better.
All of us here are experienced TR's over the 4K IL Can a handful of TR's compete still ...sort of But the effort and costs it takes to stay competitive are not in line with other classes. The main problem is they are not seeing it at the endgame level I can walk into a pug throne skirmish with my TR and dominate the chart by 20-40 million but this is a 2k IL skirmish and most there are 2500 -3000 But in an FBI or plague run with someone like lia knowles there my TR can't shine her GWF shoes even though we may be the same IL There is a point where TR isn't competitive any longer and it's not by a small margin it's quite big most don't reach this level so they only know what they see which is a 3.5k TR rocking it in edemo so that's what they base the class on .
4.3k TR here from ps4 best in slot also best boons max out guild power boon 8k etc some people says i am the best TR on PS4 also have been outdps by lower lever gear if i runs FBI with a cw,sw,gwf etc skilled player lower gear than me they can outdps me for 25 to 150 millions on FBI i feel shame lool amd they can buff and control better than me so TR need rework 911 urgent ! Dont you get it!! We need some love hello i am awesome but cant compete with other classes helloooooooooo
Can TR perform good? Yes it can. Are there such TR's? There are. How many such TR's are there? Very very few. Thats what ppl dont understand and they wont understand it unless they played TR seriously at BiS level. There are 2-3 TR's who are able to do really great and still, them being best what TR has to offer, are not able to keep up with the best of other dps classes. 4 out of 6 ppl who worked on this thread are offense wise, more or less finished, nothing else left to do, small tweaks here and there and we play the TR at least 2 years (except me) and we are being outdpsed by other classes by ridiculous amounts.
All we want is a simplification of the complicated mechanics, more forgiveness for mistakes and a small improvement in single target combat so TR can finally become what it is supposed to be - a real champion of single target combat.
Well when i mean lower im not refering to a 3k i mean 3.9 gwf can outdps me but he have to be skilled player or pro player no every dude around i mean best of the best on his class like i am and for more simple best rogue against best CW,Gwf,Sw they win in term of dps no matter how hard you try so when you are making a team i will take gwf,sw or cw cause beside been able to dps better they can buff and debuff or control or whatever maybe you dont any tr been stomped by lower gear tr cause many people exclude tr from teams looool i play ps4 and seriouly i and most of the time top pain giver but is agains ramdon pug but when i play with the best of best they outdps so you have here best TR in pc best TR on ps4 and xbox telling and you never saw
i see the other day one of the best TR on xbox running fbi with one of the best gwf on xbox what you think happen gwf outdps everyrun the TR about 50 to 200 millionssssssss looool the TR never have a chance
Lool was on twitch lot of people see and was not x 4 the damage do you know math? I say outpds him by 50 to 200 millions so the tr made 430 and the gwf made 500 or the Tr made 250 and the gwf made 350 and everybody knows who are really good on pc xbox or ps4 this guys that make this forum are mostly the best trs on pc maybe not the absolute champion but they are awesome and know what the hell they are talking about and everyone knows who are the best rogues on xbox Manchu,Cameron and wileE are some example , and dedikted,Max,Undyne,killswitch,Sour,blade of Brink and Lupinya are some example of ps4
Ok dude whatever i just mention half of the awesome TRs nation on 3 gaming machines and we sucks loool that why we are on this forum cause you actually say it we sucks all tr sucks and that why we are here looool
guys/girls pls dont let defiatone destroy this thread. Just ignore him. everyone knows hes a troll
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited April 2017
I am not going to pretend I know what needs to be done to improve tr, since I don't play the class and I don't know. With that being said however, when I compare the performance of the absolute best TRs I know to the absolute best of other classes, TR looks lackluster. I mean, I am by no means the best at playing CW but when I am actually trying I can beat these trs and if you compare these trs to the absolute best they don't stand a chance.
Do I still invite TRs to groups regardless? Yes. Do I feel the tr needs to be improved? Yes.
I know 3 of the trs on that list and I consider them to be some of the best trs in the game and I am pretty sure Janne wouldn't propose stuff that is (too) unbalanced.
The best way to put it (imo) is this:
In a 4 support 1 dps group, how will the different dps classes compare in terms of completion time in FBI. I bet you will find TR isn't on the high end of the scale for completion time.
@defiant TR at BiS is horribly underpowered Almost every class has had a balancing or rework done TR hasn't so it hasn't had anything done since a major stealth nerf a long time ago . Now most of the TRs here are pc and been playing TR and prob most other classes for a long time as we have had neverwinter since 2013 .Now don't get me wrong SW definitely needs love too templock is in a bad place too so I know we are not the only class needing work @fabricant We see our speed runs the most impacted mainly due to non aoe and single target nature but it is pretty significant non TR run can be a 17-20 min and TR run jumps up over 23 mins I would be interested in doing a full tr vs a full GWF run to compare times (we are not a powerhouse guild and I'm sure some can do it in much less)
First of all really great suggestions from the Tr Dream team. (Any sign from the devs?)
So @defiantone99 you can "buy" it, if so many Trs are posting the same, in Endgame we lack really strong behind other "on the paper" dps classes. And we are always the last class that get an rework, it tooks 5 Modules for the first and actually again 5 or maybe 6 (who knows) for the second, meanwhile at other classes the devs tweaked or toned down a little bit here and a little bit there, and we are still sitting here and waiting.
I am not going to pretend I know what needs to be done to improve tr, since I don't play the class and I don't know. With that being said however, when I compare the performance of the absolute best TRs I know to the absolute best of other classes, TR looks lackluster. I mean, I am by no means the best at playing CW but when I am actually trying I can beat these trs and if you compare these trs to the absolute best they don't stand a chance.
Do I still invite TRs to groups regardless? Yes. Do I feel the tr needs to be improved? Yes.
I know 3 of the trs on that list and I consider them to be some of the best trs in the game and I am pretty sure Janne wouldn't propose stuff that is (too) unbalanced.
The best way to put it (imo) is this:
In a 4 support 1 dps group, how will the different dps classes compare in terms of completion time in FBI. I bet you will find TR isn't on the high end of the scale for completion time.
Totally agree, so Natsu told me once in our teamspeak, if he is in the mood to start an serious Fbi speedrun to try (again) another record, he wouldn't actually never invite an Tr for it, bc the class has not the neccessary dps output. In an normal run even farm run with an decent time, yes every time.
So maybe i can ask him (or you) to post some pics from normal runs with (i think) actually the best four support and one dps char, like 1x dodc, 1x acdc, 1op, 1x gf, and then: 1x Sw like Grace, Fernuu, Natsu 1x Hr like Sume or Isaac 1x Cw like you or Alpatch 1x Gwf like Prozo or Wicked Duck
and then 1x Tr like Quilla or Haxx
maybe not Act logs bc devs (we know both how they are sometimes thinking) could start to nerf other classes instead of an serious rework for the Tr to make us more viable, i bet noone from us want that.
I do love the idea of making Shadow of Demise tick faster and longer, it is true that things die too quickly for it to be fully effective. It was from a time when there was not so much powercreep. I do not understand why they did not rework TR first, if you read the old state of the game blog, it mentions TR in the first batch of classes. But, if you watched the last livestream mimic king clearly stated that full reworks are not going to happen for now, just tweaks.
Luckily TR doesn't have bad mechanics and paths like the GWF, so DEVs should have an easy time with the TR..... right..?
First off.. everyone needs to stop saying that others ideas are bad. I work in creative problem solving, and "Yes but" is never said. Dont even think about saying "no". Most of you will have these products in your house today.
A taxi company had the stupid idea one day to make their taxis to be driven by the client. What? No taxi driver? stupid idea. Stupid Idea became first rental car company... Someones "stupid idea" can lead to a great one.
My idea: Add to SOD: If target dies before 6 seconds, all damage accumulated turns to AOE in # radius.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
First off.. everyone needs to stop saying that others ideas are bad. I work in creative problem solving, and "Yes but" is never said. Dont even think about saying "no". Most of you will have these products in your house today.
A taxi company had the stupid idea one day to make their taxis to be driven by the client. What? No taxi driver? stupid idea. Stupid Idea became first rental car company... Someones "stupid idea" can lead to a great one.
My idea: Add to SOD: If target dies before 6 seconds, all damage accumulated turns to AOE in # radius.
Hmmm why the TR was not reworked when it should have been and why it remains in the state it's in.... Well ..no one knows for sure. While it is obvious to most of the community it definitely needs it and is noticeable to anyone that looks at an ACT and runs thru FBI with each dps class its quite noticeable that TR falls short . As more mobs enter the picture and boss fights get shorter both really hurt the TR due to lack of aoe and it takes long for TR to ramp up the damage .also decent length boss fights have become more mobile and no longer stay in place which is not another TR strongsuit Now why this hasn't been fixed I have an idea or hypothesis so to say. I noticed when we were doing live streams on DEV day for the illusionist gambit unveiling the sheer amount of devs that play was impressive but what stuck out for me was the lack of TRs Lots had CW and GWF and DC and a few HRs (noticing anything here) lol
Oh and kinganuthin that's actually a good idea thanx.
Can TR perform good? Yes it can. Are there such TR's? There are. How many such TR's are there? Very very few. Thats what ppl dont understand and they wont understand it unless they played TR seriously at BiS level. There are 2-3 TR's who are able to do really great and still, them being best what TR has to offer, are not able to keep up with the best of other dps classes. 4 out of 6 ppl who worked on this thread are offense wise, more or less finished, nothing else left to do, small tweaks here and there and we play the TR at least 2 years (except me) and we are being outdpsed by other classes by ridiculous amounts.
All we want is a simplification of the complicated mechanics, more forgiveness for mistakes and a small improvement in single target combat so TR can finally become what it is supposed to be - a real champion of single target combat.
exactly this, TRs can do damage but the mechanic is overly complicated. I've played mine since beta going from pve to pvp as the game changed.
a quick change they can make is to increase the bleed from duelist to 20 again and revert the tick speed to when it was fast.
also to the guys that finally put all the bugs in one place, well done
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
We all may be 4k trs but some of us have guild boons granting more hp and more power. These additions are not taken into account and should be.
There is a big difference between a 4ktr with and without guild boons
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I agree with most of the changes proposed in this thread's mother post. Here are some TR problems and buff suggestions of my own to add to the mix:
TR Dazes: Make it so all TR dazes grant combat advantage like they are supposed to. Smoke bomb is well known for not granting combat advantage. Unfortunately, its not just smoke bomb with this problem, all TR dazes except dazing strike fail to grant combat advantage. This problem includes TR feats with daze effects, its not just passives and powers.
Shadow of Demise: The part that says you no longer have your stealth regeneration interrupted when taking damage does not work properly. Your stealth regeneration is stalled a little bit less when you take damage than if you didn't have this feat but is not completely stopped. This should be fixed as part of the rework.
Tenacious Concealment: This passive is seldom used and is pretty useless for a PVE TR. In PVP, this passive is also rarely used but did find one small niche: It was used on some experimental executioner builds because you could stack the stealth loss effect with the defective one from shadow of demise. Neither shadow of demise or tenacious concealment completely stop you from having your stealth regen stalled but stacking the two did help. I am not sure of the exact buff this passive needs but its very underwhelming right now. Perhaps buffing the amount of stealth regen it gives you at rank 4 or adding another useful effect to this passive would make it more appealing.
Oppressive Darkness: This passive's piercing damage is too weak and badly needs to be increased. When it was originally released to preview server, people threw a fit over the amount of piercing damage it granted and it got nerfed into the ground. Now it grants too little piercing damage and is in no way competitive with our other passive powers be it PVE or PVP.
Talisman of Shadows: This passive is rarely used. I have yet to hear of a person actually running it in PVE and you don't get much out of it in PVP either. Its daze is meant to function as a quick interrupt to throw off your opponent. The problem with it is it activates when you enter stealth. You do not need to interrupt your opponent when you are already in stealth, its completely redundant as a defense mechanism and its daze is too short to be of much use for anything else. This power should be reworked to have a different trigger instead of entering stealth being the trigger. Upgrading the daze to a stun AKA adding an immobilize would also make it a little better. This power is of little appeal in PVE, I suggest adding an additional effect of some kind that would attract PVE players.
Gloaming Cut: This power is too slow and because of this, very few people use it. Speed up this power's animation.
Sly Flourish: This power is mostly used in PVE in conjunction with DF and a handful of PVPers with stealth builds are also known to use it. Its mostly desired for its damage buff though it takes time to reach the 4th strike. I suggest making it so its damage buff activates on every even strike instead of just the last strike. This should make this power more efficient.
Deft Strike: Make it so this power grants you and your allys combat advantage against the target for 5 seconds. Remove the ability to teleport to allies when stealthed from this power altogether, this effect tends to irritate players more often than it helps them when they mistakenly target an ally instead of an enemy. Replace this power's stealthed effect with something else, here is my suggestion: Stealthed: in addition to this power's other effects, you and you allies deal increased combat advantage damage to the target for 5 seconds and this power's range increases to 80 feet.
Blitz: The slow from it is pitifully short and weak. Buff both the duration and the strength of the slow.
Bait and switch: This is all in addition to this power's current effects: When not in stealth, make this power grant you combat advantage for 5 seconds against anyone who damages your dummy. Stealthed: Make this power cast 3 dummies instead of 1 as part of its in stealth function, each of these dummies grants 1/3d of the AP when hit that a single dummy launched out of stealth grants.
Shadowy Disappearance: This power currently is nearly useless in combat and is not well designed. Its only really useful for out of combat pass times like exploring maps. Here is my suggested redesign: Remove the mini stealth from this power altogether. Increase the radius of the entry point and exit aoes. Any targets struck by the aoes are stunned for 1 second and cause you to regain 20% of your stealth bar per target hit. Stealthed: You are not removed from stealth. This power changes from aoe to single target and marks the target instead of its other effects. While the target is marked, you may activate this power a second time to consume the mark, switching places with your target and stunning them for 1 second. This mark lasts 15 seconds or until the distance between you and your target is greater than 80 feet. you may only have one target marked at a time.
Impact Shot: Increase the speed of its animation a little bit, its on the slow side. I was going to suggest a damage buff to this power as well but the other changes suggested to increase TR damage probably will be enough to give this power the kick it needs.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Thanx trgluesticks You totally reminded me of something. There's a feat in the first row where points in supposedly combat advantage gives bonus action points called action advantage. I was always skeptical of this so I ran with full points in it and then parsed a mob pull in the digsite I stealthed came out so I would have combat advantage then video'd it went back and timed how long from empty to full action points. Went back and did the same thing without points in it..
It took 12 secs and 10 secs to dispatch the 7 mobs and although my overcharge offense from shadewalkers procs were inconsistent I found points not in this feat actually gave me same 10 secs to full action gauge So I am sure now you get absolutely no combat advantage bonus points from the five points . Others have said this but I had to try it myself to believe . Now I'm not sure if my other boons and action point jewels put me at a soft cap and it just doesn't help me or if it's everyone.
It's almost like the .5 damage bonus from each archon companion ...another urban legend It almost makes me wonder how many of these bonuses in tooltips actually work a lot we assume are working but when you test these theories they fall short. That one made me switch from human as it made the extra feat points worthless for my build so I rerolled dragonborn and saw an increase in damage . I will go thru and test a lot of these bonuses this weekend .
Oh @demonmonger guild boons have nothing to do with TR class as they are universal across all classes. This thread is to help the TR class please don't throw personal grievances that have nothing to do with the thread in here as it just detracts from the purpose. If you have something against guild boons there's a thread for that but it's not this one.
I have been playing a scoundrel TR as my main since mod 7 or 8 and would like to weigh in on the scoundrel tree sugestions. I liked the sugestions offered in this thread's main post but it needs to be expanded upon some. Here is a more extensive look into the scoundrel TR tree and buff sugestions:
Roll with the Punches: increases your deflection chance by .5/.1/1.5/2/2.5% Add a flat increase to damage of the same amount.
Bloody Brawler: increases your lifesteal chance by .5/.1/1.5/2/2.5% Same as above
Survivor: you gain 2/4/6/8/10% more deflection chance while you are below 30% health. This feat is very outdated and pretty much useless for both pvp and pve. Back in the day, this feat was good because there were fewer sources of self healing and you would both hit low health more often and you would be more likely to linger at low health. As a scoundrel nowadays, if you hit 30% health, you will either die to a followup blow or heal back up in seconds. There is no inbetween and you do not linger at low health long enough for this feat to be worth taking. I would suggest reworking this feat to something that is still oriented towards deflection or other self defense but is more appealing.
Press the Advantage: Your Impossible to Catch now also increases your power rating by 2/4/6/8/10% this feat is good as is
Back Alley Tactics: When your action points are empty, you deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage. This bonus diminishes as you gain action points. This feat is good as is.
Master Infighter: you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from attacks This feat is good as is
Concussive Strikes: Your critical strikes and attacks from behind the target daze foes for .5/.1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds. Foes can only be dazed this way once every 5 seconds. This effect is halved against players. This feat has an excellent mechanic but is a little too watered down in pvp. I would suggest increasing its duration in pvp to either 1.8 seconds or 2 seconds up from 1.2 seconds. While there are more sources of control resistance than there used to be, a little goes a long way with this feat and it could easily become overpowered if increased by too much.
Savage Blows: Dealing damage to foes increases your lifesteal by .2/.4/.6/.8/1% for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. The main post in this thread suggests adding a damage increase that works exactly the same as this feat's life steal mechanic. This proposed buff is reasonable and would work well.
Low Blows: you deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are effected by a control effect. This feat would be a good place to put a buff to scoundrel damage. The main post in this thread suggests 40%. This would be a great buff to the scoundrel, TY to the people who put this thread together for suggesting this.
Mocking Gesture: Entering stealth increases your deflection chance by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 seconds This feat is in a similar hole as Survivor. While its a little bit better than survivor, it still does not see much use. This feat is also something of an oddball in that it is the only feat scoundrels have that involves stealth and is a little out of place. It works okish on pvp builds with more recovery and stealth where you have the best chance of keeping it up as often as possible, but even then this feat is difficult to maintain and other feats typically outweigh it. Since this feat is pretty sub-optimal for a scoundrel but fits right in with the sabotuer tree, I would suggest removing blood soaked blades from the sabotuer tree and giving them mocking gesture instead. Then make an entirely new feat for the scoundrel tree.
Scullcracker: Increases movement speed by 15%. Every 15 seconds, you gain the scullcracker effect. Scullcracker: your next encounter power now dazes the target for 4 seconds your attacks extend this daze by .5 seconds up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% more damage to targets effected by this daze. The daze from this effect is halved against players.
This feat stands out as being the only TR capstone that is almost completely useless. The only thing useful about it is the 15% speed increase but even this has a drawback. This speed increase is up all the time unless you have recently used an encounter power. This speed increase should be increased to 20% and made permanent. The rest of scullcracker needs a rework. The suggestion in this thread's mother post was to change scullcracker to a 30% damage buff that lasts 6 seconds. The daze would still occur but the damage bonus would be a separate effect from it. This way, the damage bonus applies to control immune targets. The damage buff should be the same duration in both pve and pvp under this sugestion since it is no longer tied to the daze. Both the daze and the damage bonus are triggered when you use an encounter power and can only be triggered once every 15 seconds. This idea would work fine though I'm open to other sugestions. To further improve on this idea, the daze should be modified to simply last 6 seconds (less in pvp, 3 would be good) instead of being a 4 second extendable daze. The daze should also be upgraded to a stun.
Update: This post's section on scullcracker was later edited to make it more clear. This post was quoted once before this edit was made so there are some minor wording differences between the quoted version of this post and the current version.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
Scullcracker: Increases movement speed by 15%. Every 15 seconds, you gain the scullcracker effect. Scullcracker: your next encounter power now dazes the target for 4 seconds your attacks extend this daze by .5 seconds up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% more damage to targets effected by this daze. The daze from this effect is halved against players.
This feat stands out as being the only TR capstone that is almost completely useless. The only thing useful about it is the 15% speed increase but even this has a drawback. This speed increase is up all the time unless you have recently used an encounter power. This speed increase should be increased to 20% and made permanent. The rest of scullcracker needs a rework. The suggestion in this thread's mother post was to change scullcracker to a 30% damage buff that lasts 6 seconds. The daze would still occur but the damage bonus would be a separate effect from the daze. This idea would work fine though I'm open to other sugestions. To further improve on this idea, the daze should be modified to simply last 6 seconds (less in pvp) instead of being a 4 second extendable daze. I will also sugest upgrading the daze to a stun.
+1 to this. TR's dont have sny stun source besides VP and IS, and IMO TR's should have more stuns instead of so many dazes.
The Skullcracker change is really nice, and to get more aligned with other changes. That 30% dmg buff during 6 seconds, and a stun, is really nice.
Also, Both Skullcrakcer and Low Blows should should work like "Shatter strike", from CW Opressor tree: those feats should deal 100%/50% of weapon damage against CC imune targets, respectively.
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
Comments
Can a handful of TR's compete still ...sort of
But the effort and costs it takes to stay competitive are not in line with other classes.
The main problem is they are not seeing it at the endgame level
I can walk into a pug throne skirmish with my TR and dominate the chart by 20-40 million but this is a 2k IL skirmish and most there are 2500 -3000
But in an FBI or plague run with someone like lia knowles there my TR can't shine her GWF shoes even though we may be the same IL
There is a point where TR isn't competitive any longer and it's not by a small margin it's quite big most don't reach this level so they only know what they see which is a 3.5k TR rocking it in edemo so that's what they base the class on .
All we want is a simplification of the complicated mechanics, more forgiveness for mistakes and a small improvement in single target combat so TR can finally become what it is supposed to be - a real champion of single target combat.
Do I still invite TRs to groups regardless? Yes. Do I feel the tr needs to be improved? Yes.
I know 3 of the trs on that list and I consider them to be some of the best trs in the game and I am pretty sure Janne wouldn't propose stuff that is (too) unbalanced.
The best way to put it (imo) is this:
In a 4 support 1 dps group, how will the different dps classes compare in terms of completion time in FBI. I bet you will find TR isn't on the high end of the scale for completion time.
TR at BiS is horribly underpowered
Almost every class has had a balancing or rework done TR hasn't so it hasn't had anything done since a major stealth nerf a long time ago .
Now most of the TRs here are pc and been playing TR and prob most other classes for a long time as we have had neverwinter since 2013 .Now don't get me wrong SW definitely needs love too templock is in a bad place too so I know we are not the only class needing work
@fabricant
We see our speed runs the most impacted mainly due to non aoe and single target nature but it is pretty significant non TR run can be a 17-20 min and TR run jumps up over 23 mins
I would be interested in doing a full tr vs a full GWF run to compare times (we are not a powerhouse guild and I'm sure some can do it in much less)
So @defiantone99 you can "buy" it, if so many Trs are posting the same, in Endgame we lack really strong behind other "on the paper" dps classes.
And we are always the last class that get an rework, it tooks 5 Modules for the first and actually again 5 or maybe 6 (who knows) for the second, meanwhile at other classes the devs tweaked or toned down a little bit here and a little bit there, and we are still sitting here and waiting.
Totally agree, so Natsu told me once in our teamspeak, if he is in the mood to start an serious Fbi speedrun to try (again) another record, he wouldn't actually never invite an Tr for it, bc the class has not the neccessary dps output.
In an normal run even farm run with an decent time, yes every time.
So maybe i can ask him (or you) to post some pics from normal runs with (i think) actually the best four support and one dps char, like 1x dodc, 1x acdc, 1op, 1x gf, and then:
1x Sw like Grace, Fernuu, Natsu
1x Hr like Sume or Isaac
1x Cw like you or Alpatch
1x Gwf like Prozo or Wicked Duck
and then 1x Tr like Quilla or Haxx
maybe not Act logs bc devs (we know both how they are sometimes thinking) could start to nerf other classes instead of an serious rework for the Tr to make us more viable, i bet noone from us want that.
A taxi company had the stupid idea one day to make their taxis to be driven by the client. What? No taxi driver? stupid idea. Stupid Idea became first rental car company...
Someones "stupid idea" can lead to a great one.
My idea: Add to SOD: If target dies before 6 seconds, all damage accumulated turns to AOE in # radius.
Well ..no one knows for sure.
While it is obvious to most of the community it definitely needs it and is noticeable to anyone that looks at an ACT and runs thru FBI with each dps class its quite noticeable that TR falls short .
As more mobs enter the picture and boss fights get shorter both really hurt the TR due to lack of aoe and it takes long for TR to ramp up the damage .also decent length boss fights have become more mobile and no longer stay in place which is not another TR strongsuit
Now why this hasn't been fixed I have an idea or hypothesis so to say.
I noticed when we were doing live streams on DEV day for the illusionist gambit unveiling the sheer amount of devs that play was impressive but what stuck out for me was the lack of TRs
Lots had CW and GWF and DC and a few HRs (noticing anything here) lol
Oh and kinganuthin that's actually a good idea thanx.
Thanks to all for this great feedback.
M.K.
a quick change they can make is to increase the bleed from duelist to 20 again and revert the tick speed to when it was fast.
also to the guys that finally put all the bugs in one place, well done
There is a big difference between a 4ktr with and without guild boons
TR Dazes:
Make it so all TR dazes grant combat advantage like they are supposed to. Smoke bomb is well known for not granting combat advantage. Unfortunately, its not just smoke bomb with this problem, all TR dazes except dazing strike fail to grant combat advantage. This problem includes TR feats with daze effects, its not just passives and powers.
Shadow of Demise:
The part that says you no longer have your stealth regeneration interrupted when taking damage does not work properly. Your stealth regeneration is stalled a little bit less when you take damage than if you didn't have this feat but is not completely stopped. This should be fixed as part of the rework.
Tenacious Concealment:
This passive is seldom used and is pretty useless for a PVE TR. In PVP, this passive is also rarely used but did find one small niche: It was used on some experimental executioner builds because you could stack the stealth loss effect with the defective one from shadow of demise. Neither shadow of demise or tenacious concealment completely stop you from having your stealth regen stalled but stacking the two did help. I am not sure of the exact buff this passive needs but its very underwhelming right now. Perhaps buffing the amount of stealth regen it gives you at rank 4 or adding another useful effect to this passive would make it more appealing.
Oppressive Darkness:
This passive's piercing damage is too weak and badly needs to be increased. When it was originally released to preview server, people threw a fit over the amount of piercing damage it granted and it got nerfed into the ground. Now it grants too little piercing damage and is in no way competitive with our other passive powers be it PVE or PVP.
Talisman of Shadows:
This passive is rarely used. I have yet to hear of a person actually running it in PVE and you don't get much out of it in PVP either. Its daze is meant to function as a quick interrupt to throw off your opponent. The problem with it is it activates when you enter stealth. You do not need to interrupt your opponent when you are already in stealth, its completely redundant as a defense mechanism and its daze is too short to be of much use for anything else. This power should be reworked to have a different trigger instead of entering stealth being the trigger. Upgrading the daze to a stun AKA adding an immobilize would also make it a little better. This power is of little appeal in PVE, I suggest adding an additional effect of some kind that would attract PVE players.
Gloaming Cut:
This power is too slow and because of this, very few people use it. Speed up this power's animation.
Sly Flourish:
This power is mostly used in PVE in conjunction with DF and a handful of PVPers with stealth builds are also known to use it. Its mostly desired for its damage buff though it takes time to reach the 4th strike. I suggest making it so its damage buff activates on every even strike instead of just the last strike. This should make this power more efficient.
Deft Strike:
Make it so this power grants you and your allys combat advantage against the target for 5 seconds. Remove the ability to teleport to allies when stealthed from this power altogether, this effect tends to irritate players more often than it helps them when they mistakenly target an ally instead of an enemy. Replace this power's stealthed effect with something else, here is my suggestion: Stealthed: in addition to this power's other effects, you and you allies deal increased combat advantage damage to the target for 5 seconds and this power's range increases to 80 feet.
Blitz:
The slow from it is pitifully short and weak. Buff both the duration and the strength of the slow.
Bait and switch:
This is all in addition to this power's current effects: When not in stealth, make this power grant you combat advantage for 5 seconds against anyone who damages your dummy. Stealthed: Make this power cast 3 dummies instead of 1 as part of its in stealth function, each of these dummies grants 1/3d of the AP when hit that a single dummy launched out of stealth grants.
Shadowy Disappearance:
This power currently is nearly useless in combat and is not well designed. Its only really useful for out of combat pass times like exploring maps. Here is my suggested redesign:
Remove the mini stealth from this power altogether. Increase the radius of the entry point and exit aoes. Any targets struck by the aoes are stunned for 1 second and cause you to regain 20% of your stealth bar per target hit.
Stealthed: You are not removed from stealth. This power changes from aoe to single target and marks the target instead of its other effects. While the target is marked, you may activate this power a second time to consume the mark, switching places with your target and stunning them for 1 second. This mark lasts 15 seconds or until the distance between you and your target is greater than 80 feet. you may only have one target marked at a time.
Impact Shot:
Increase the speed of its animation a little bit, its on the slow side. I was going to suggest a damage buff to this power as well but the other changes suggested to increase TR damage probably will be enough to give this power the kick it needs.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
You totally reminded me of something.
There's a feat in the first row where points in supposedly combat advantage gives bonus action points called action advantage.
I was always skeptical of this so I ran with full points in it and then parsed a mob pull in the digsite I stealthed came out so I would have combat advantage then video'd it went back and timed how long from empty to full action points.
Went back and did the same thing without points in it..
It took 12 secs and 10 secs to dispatch the 7 mobs and although my overcharge offense from shadewalkers procs were inconsistent I found points not in this feat actually gave me same 10 secs to full action gauge
So I am sure now you get absolutely no combat advantage bonus points from the five points .
Others have said this but I had to try it myself to believe .
Now I'm not sure if my other boons and action point jewels put me at a soft cap and it just doesn't help me or if it's everyone.
It's almost like the .5 damage bonus from each archon companion ...another urban legend
It almost makes me wonder how many of these bonuses in tooltips actually work a lot we assume are working but when you test these theories they fall short.
That one made me switch from human as it made the extra feat points worthless for my build so I rerolled dragonborn and saw an increase in damage .
I will go thru and test a lot of these bonuses this weekend .
Oh @demonmonger guild boons have nothing to do with TR class as they are universal across all classes. This thread is to help the TR class please don't throw personal grievances that have nothing to do with the thread in here as it just detracts from the purpose.
If you have something against guild boons there's a thread for that but it's not this one.
Roll with the Punches:
increases your deflection chance by .5/.1/1.5/2/2.5%
Add a flat increase to damage of the same amount.
Bloody Brawler:
increases your lifesteal chance by .5/.1/1.5/2/2.5%
Same as above
Survivor:
you gain 2/4/6/8/10% more deflection chance while you are below 30% health.
This feat is very outdated and pretty much useless for both pvp and pve. Back in the day, this feat was good because there were fewer sources of self healing and you would both hit low health more often and you would be more likely to linger at low health. As a scoundrel nowadays, if you hit 30% health, you will either die to a followup blow or heal back up in seconds. There is no inbetween and you do not linger at low health long enough for this feat to be worth taking. I would suggest reworking this feat to something that is still oriented towards deflection or other self defense but is more appealing.
Press the Advantage:
Your Impossible to Catch now also increases your power rating by 2/4/6/8/10%
this feat is good as is
Back Alley Tactics:
When your action points are empty, you deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage. This bonus diminishes as you gain action points.
This feat is good as is.
Master Infighter:
you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from attacks
This feat is good as is
Concussive Strikes:
Your critical strikes and attacks from behind the target daze foes for .5/.1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds. Foes can only be dazed this way once every 5 seconds. This effect is halved against players.
This feat has an excellent mechanic but is a little too watered down in pvp. I would suggest increasing its duration in pvp to either 1.8 seconds or 2 seconds up from 1.2 seconds. While there are more sources of control resistance than there used to be, a little goes a long way with this feat and it could easily become overpowered if increased by too much.
Savage Blows:
Dealing damage to foes increases your lifesteal by .2/.4/.6/.8/1% for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
The main post in this thread suggests adding a damage increase that works exactly the same as this feat's life steal mechanic. This proposed buff is reasonable and would work well.
Low Blows:
you deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are effected by a control effect.
This feat would be a good place to put a buff to scoundrel damage. The main post in this thread suggests 40%. This would be a great buff to the scoundrel, TY to the people who put this thread together for suggesting this.
Mocking Gesture:
Entering stealth increases your deflection chance by 2/4/6/8/10% for 10 seconds
This feat is in a similar hole as Survivor. While its a little bit better than survivor, it still does not see much use. This feat is also something of an oddball in that it is the only feat scoundrels have that involves stealth and is a little out of place. It works okish on pvp builds with more recovery and stealth where you have the best chance of keeping it up as often as possible, but even then this feat is difficult to maintain and other feats typically outweigh it. Since this feat is pretty sub-optimal for a scoundrel but fits right in with the sabotuer tree, I would suggest removing blood soaked blades from the sabotuer tree and giving them mocking gesture instead. Then make an entirely new feat for the scoundrel tree.
Scullcracker:
Increases movement speed by 15%. Every 15 seconds, you gain the scullcracker effect. Scullcracker: your next encounter power now dazes the target for 4 seconds your attacks extend this daze by .5 seconds up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% more damage to targets effected by this daze. The daze from this effect is halved against players.
This feat stands out as being the only TR capstone that is almost completely useless. The only thing useful about it is the 15% speed increase but even this has a drawback. This speed increase is up all the time unless you have recently used an encounter power. This speed increase should be increased to 20% and made permanent. The rest of scullcracker needs a rework.
The suggestion in this thread's mother post was to change scullcracker to a 30% damage buff that lasts 6 seconds.
The daze would still occur but the damage bonus would be a separate effect from it. This way, the damage bonus applies to control immune targets.
The damage buff should be the same duration in both pve and pvp under this sugestion since it is no longer tied to the daze.
Both the daze and the damage bonus are triggered when you use an encounter power and can only be triggered once every 15 seconds.
This idea would work fine though I'm open to other sugestions. To further improve on this idea, the daze should be modified to simply last 6 seconds (less in pvp, 3 would be good) instead of being a 4 second extendable daze.
The daze should also be upgraded to a stun.
Update:
This post's section on scullcracker was later edited to make it more clear. This post was quoted once before this edit was made so there are some minor wording differences between the quoted version of this post and the current version.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The Skullcracker change is really nice, and to get more aligned with other changes. That 30% dmg buff during 6 seconds, and a stun, is really nice.
Also, Both Skullcrakcer and Low Blows should should work like "Shatter strike", from CW Opressor tree: those feats should deal 100%/50% of weapon damage against CC imune targets, respectively.