Illusionist's Gambit. Do something about the Bronze Runners plz

uptondarkdiamond · April 2017

Hopefully there can be a solution that works for both sides of this issue.

urabask · April 2017

joe123thewayward said:

defiantone99 said:
They should just remove the ability to leave and remove that reflect damage nonsense.
HECK NO!!! The reflect damage effect is the only thing that makes IG even remotly challenging. It is a huge advantage over esot, kr, etc. Esot, kr and any IG that random reflect does not appear means a run so mind numbingly easy that I can auto run it while watching tv and still be number 1 in damage done.

Virtually every party I've been in ignores it and continues to spam AOEs. You might die a couple of times but you can still power through it without any challenge.

thefabricant · April 2017

joe123thewayward said:

thefabricant said:

therealprotex said:
I'd reverse your demand: enter the gambit with a premade team of 5 if you want to run gold.

There is nothing to gain from gold that you won't get from bronze as well. If you want to run gold for fun, find people who do so as well. The fact that most people do not WANT to run gold should be evidence enough that most people do not have fun running the gambit for gold.
You get companion gear for gold, which some of us want. You not going to get your fancy +4 pet gear in a bronze run.

You have no idea how frustrating it is for me to have my time wasted by you people who do nothing more than end it at bronze.

It is made worse by the fact that 90% of the time I am in a run where they end it early, the bronze runners sit around and do HAMSTER all in the first round and let me kill everything, because they a bunch of lazy asses.

Idgaf if I am carrying 3 people, so long as they damn well don't waste my time.
The drop rate for +4 stuff is so low in IG that the reality is you are not goint to get a +4 in a gold run either. I ran 30 golds. I got 29 green +1s and one +2. I have taken to running nothing but bronze 2x 6 alts most days. It gets my skirmish AD knocked out in an efficient manner (can do 2+ bronze runs in the time it takes to do a gold) and bronze gives me better drops (usually 10 or 11 +2s and 1 or 2 +1s). As near as I can tell gold runs are a fools run.

@joe123thewayward I don't need AD, I am not running IG for AD, I am running IG because the 2 things I need in this game is 1x dod for my CW, 1x helig for my dc and pet gear. I am well aware that I will be running IG for a very long time, but considering that is what it is going to take to get me pet gear, it is what I am running.

andreask · April 2017

joe123thewayward said:

The drop rate for +4 stuff is so low in IG that the reality is you are not goint to get a +4 in a gold run either. I ran 30 golds. I got 29 green +1s and one +2. I have taken to running nothing but bronze 2x 6 alts most days. It gets my skirmish AD knocked out in an efficient manner (can do 2+ bronze runs in the time it takes to do a gold) and bronze gives me better drops (usually 10 or 11 +2s and 1 or 2 +1s). As near as I can tell gold runs are a fools run.

Exactly this. Running multiple bronze is more efficient than going for one gold. The items that can be found (obviously with low chance) on a gold run don't seem to interest the majority of players. There is an easy way to test this with the help of a friend: start 2 ques at the same time asking people for IG. One should request for gold, the other for bronze. See which que fills faster. Reapeat at different times and draw your own conclusions.

Personally, I already got my fleece but i still run 2 bronze runs per day. It is one of the fastest and efficient way to get AD.

lantern22 · April 2017

thefabricant said:
If people can be bothered to get a group of 3 together to farm for bronze, they can go to the effort of getting 2 more. It is flat out inconsiderate to force the decision for bronze on 2 other random people.

I agree with this. If you are getting a group three together then you are doing it so you can force or "rig" the vote and you are doing it knowing that there is a decent chance that the remaining two won't agree, otherwise why make sure you have 3? Its not that hard to get 2 more like minded players and then you know you aren't going to upset anyone. Its just common courtesy, isn't it?

lowendus · April 2017

lantern22 said:

thefabricant said:
If people can be bothered to get a group of 3 together to farm for bronze, they can go to the effort of getting 2 more. It is flat out inconsiderate to force the decision for bronze on 2 other random people.
I agree with this. If you are getting a group three together then you are doing it so you can force or "rig" the vote and you are doing it knowing that there is a decent chance that the remaining two won't agree, otherwise why make sure you have 3? Its not that hard to get 2 more like minded players and then you know you aren't going to upset anyone. Its just common courtesy, isn't it?

Well common courtesy doesn't seem to be that common anymore.
That's exactly my point.

It's hella easier to find a group of people spamming bronze, why hurdle the rest who Q up normally and force your vote onto them (groups of 3+) if they want a chance at something better ?

andreask · April 2017

@lowendus
I am not really sure why you make such an issue. Find 2 more players wanting to go gold and vote your way there. What's the problem?

lowendus · April 2017

andreask#1780 said:
@lowendus
I am not really sure why you make such an issue. Find 2 more players wanting to go gold and vote your way there. What's the problem?

I'd like to public Q for IG during the times our guild or other channels I'm in are silent and get a chance at some of the new companion equipment.

I am being forced to quit Q after Q till I get lucky and find a team that will go for gold or suck it up and run bronze time after time, which is no fun at all for me, that's why, plain and simple.

therealprotex · April 2017

lowendus said:

andreask#1780 said:
@lowendus
I am not really sure why you make such an issue. Find 2 more players wanting to go gold and vote your way there. What's the problem?
I'd like to public Q for IG during the times our guild or other channels I'm in are silent and get a chance at some of the new companion equipment.

I am being forced to quit Q after Q till I get lucky and find a team that will go for gold or suck it up and run bronze time after time, which is no fun at all for me, that's why, plain and simple.

Don't you see that every single argument you made can be used in the other way as well? It was said here already, there are two opposing and mutual excluding interests here and the only solution that serves both sides would be to make two different queues - one for bronze and one for gold runs (or are there people who run for silver, too?) - and THEN remove the poll feature. But to be honest, at the moment I am pretty sure that the "gold" queue would be quite dead, while the "bronze" queue had a good chance to replace Master of the Hunt and Dread Legion as the skirmish with the best AD/time ratio and thus would be overrun.

mamalion1234 · April 2017

NO no let it that way and put a zen item to increase the ignore list. IGNore for leavers.
NICE design cryptic also go to pvp and put vote options too: i want farm my ad 2: i want get glory 3: i dont want to fight at all.
ALSO why force stay and force leave? your system cant replace the leavers with poeple could stay? oh not it cant.

therealprotex · April 2017

defiantone99 said:
There is no excuse for there to be bronze pug runs. It would be like if back in the day when 1/2 premade VT runs were a thing that some left after the first boss in a pug saying its a 1/2 run. haha

No, it is not. And there is no excuse needed for a bronze pug run. Because this skirmish was MADE in a way that running bronze is LEGIT. Even with a pug run. A comparison with VT or any other dungeon/skirmish is plain stupid, because there never was such a feature before in any dungeon or skirmish.

tearsoffear · April 2017

Long story short:
if you have a specific goal in mind don't go PUG.
If you PUG expect the unexpected.

The probability of encountering the unexpected in a PUG increases proportional with the time required to reach your specific goal.

All players have the possibility to create groups. If someone doesn't like the playstyle of the majority I strongly recommend to go premade.

I can't believe that players (gold runners) really demand from other players (bronze's) to enter premade. At the same time, if you ask them to go premade as well, they feel threatened in their freedom of playing as they wish to.

And the supposed three man majority ... I don't know, is this not a persecutory delusion? As there seem to be way more bronze runners this could be a wrong impression.
Can't the gold runners see the wall in their head?

Even if there are players out there making small teams to rig the vote (what I don't believe) it is still your, and only your fault, to PUG. Even more so as you obviously already comprehended and realized the outcome of PUGing.

bashteros1234 · April 2017

At the moment I'm only interested in AD and fleece - so I queue solo and vote for leave at bronze level, but from time to time there are 3 or more voting for staying and I happily fight with them to the end - no big deal. Perhaps the amount of gold runs would increase if there would be an official feedback from cryptic saying that the best +4 gear only comes from gold runs (or at least I didn't see that statement).

At the moment it's like in every democratic system - give your vote and accept the result.

nameexpired · April 2017

Considering the time/effort it might be a good and probably fair solution to give 1 fleece for every stage, so a gold run would earn 3 fleece AND has a chance for +4/+5 companion gear.

rayrdan · April 2017

remove the ads for bronze runs and the fiencee thats all

the real problem is that those rings are not worth the time spent tho

mightyeriksson · April 2017

It would be awesome if the devs could implement the same type of system from the Twisted weapon sets / EDemo, some form of currency that could be traded for the desired companion-gear, even if it's only the +4 versions... (since they're currently superior)

dread4moor · April 2017

Bronze runs are officially part of the content. The vote is WAI.
Do not PUG unless you are willing to be forced to stop at Bronze by a majority vote.
Want Gold and nothing short of Gold?
"LF4M IG Gold only". Done.
You aren't forcing your selfish needs onto others nor are they forcing you.

asterotg · April 2017

Wow, so much bias. I want to run it this way and everyone else is either an exploiter or an egoist, if he does not do as I say. Thats so ... .

Guess what, I do PuG, too. Sometimes I did get grouped with lazy AFK players and I want to abort after the first round, bc I dont want to waste my time with a group, that did 1/2 the dmg of my GF. Surprise, they vote for another round and I can either continue to carry them or leave. With some luck they all die in the 3rd round and I die, too. No reward at all. Am I happy about this? No. Do I swear about lazy HAMSTER undergeared noobs? Yes. Do I call them exploiters, no.

The system is less then ideal. The gold reward compared to bronze is pure HAMSTER. These are the problems and not players, who dont do as you said/ wish for.

demonmonger · April 2017

You always have to worry about who you are running with in a pug group.

You don't need 5 to go gold bro..

You can go gold with 3....

People say upfront what they want from what I have seen.

I like doing bronze, mainly because if people can't handle gold and attempt plus fail, we get nothing. Which is a huge waste of my time.

thefabricant · April 2017

therealprotex said:

lowendus said:

andreask#1780 said:
@lowendus
I am not really sure why you make such an issue. Find 2 more players wanting to go gold and vote your way there. What's the problem?
I'd like to public Q for IG during the times our guild or other channels I'm in are silent and get a chance at some of the new companion equipment.

I am being forced to quit Q after Q till I get lucky and find a team that will go for gold or suck it up and run bronze time after time, which is no fun at all for me, that's why, plain and simple.
Don't you see that every single argument you made can be used in the other way as well? It was said here already, there are two opposing and mutual excluding interests here and the only solution that serves both sides would be to make two different queues - one for bronze and one for gold runs (or are there people who run for silver, too?) - and THEN remove the poll feature. But to be honest, at the moment I am pretty sure that the "gold" queue would be quite dead, while the "bronze" queue had a good chance to replace Master of the Hunt and Dread Legion as the skirmish with the best AD/time ratio and thus would be overrun.

And that is the point. If it is really easy to get 5 for bronze and much harder to get 5 for gold, then it is the responsibility of those running bronze to build a complete 5 man team. Forming a 3 man team and then forcing the decision of bronze on 2 other people, just shows you have no consideration for those 2 other people since you are deliberately making a team to force the vote your way.

therealprotex · April 2017

thefabricant said:
And that is the point. If it is really easy to get 5 for bronze and much harder to get 5 for gold, then it is the responsibility of those running bronze to build a complete 5 man team. Forming a 3 man team and then forcing the decision of bronze on 2 other people, just shows you have no consideration for those 2 other people since you are deliberately making a team to force the vote your way.

I see your point and you are not wrong. However, I do not believe that the majority of runs where the poll ends up 3-2 is a run with a premade 3-man bronze team. I do not even believe that it is a significant portion at all. I think that the vast majority of 3-2 or 4-1 runs are REAL pug groups without any premade sub-team. But without getting the numbers this might be an everlasting moot point.

demonmonger · April 2017

I have been held hostage in illusionist gambit by players that wanted gold many times... guess what? I would just leave the instance and try again getting nothing.

Why? Because at least 1/3 times people run for gold they die all at once and when that happens we waste a cra ton of time just to get NO items at all!!!

dread4moor · April 2017

@thefabricant
"... it is the responsibility of those running bronze to build a complete 5 man team. Forming a 3 man team and then forcing the decision of bronze on 2 other people, just shows you have no consideration for those 2 other people since you are deliberately making a team to force the vote your way."
I respectfully disagree.
The PUG life is the thug life, Playa!
You are not "making" anyone do anything either way cause all PUG'S are the wild west. Always have been. You know that going in.

When you willingly join a PUG Q for a majority vote progression you surrender your absolute right to have it your way, cousin.
If we are in aneed IG PUG Q together the only thing we owe each other is cooperation during game the current round. That's it.
When that round is over... brother, I don't owe you hamster.
Voting time. My vote is for my needs, not yours.
If I want to vote "done" that is legal and built right into the game... but you can flip that script... I might be out voted. I know that going in.
Tough hamster for me if YOU out vote ME. We both knew that going in.

And hamster nuts to whoever is comparing IG voting to the old VT 1/3 loot and ditcherst.
Those <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-hats were leavers, abandoning teammates prematurely. Not the same at all.
IG Bronze is built-in, WAI.
Those who want "my way or the highway", don't PUG.

demonmonger · April 2017

Just form your own group... if you pug anything can happen. If you can't form your own group ask what's up before the match begins. Then you know what's up before you waste your time.. Bronze or gold.

asterotg · April 2017

defiantone99 said:
And, that is why it needs to be changed. First mod 10 brought hyper-elitism, now 11 brings players who do not even want to finish the content and instead bail out.

The run is finished as a bronze run, when the majority votes to finish it at bronze. Simple as that. This is an implemented feature, no bug, no exploit, no abandoning. You dont have to like it, but that is how it is.

Illusionist's Gambit. Do something about the Bronze Runners plz

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