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Should PvP Solo queue be made permanent?

zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
edited March 2017 in PvP Discussion
Straightforward vote.
Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

Should PvP Solo queue be made permanent? 85 votes

Yes
92% 79 votes
No
7% 6 votes
«1

Comments

  • josiahiyonjosiahiyon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 396 Arc User
    Yes, per the following steps outlined at the link below:

    (1) same tenacity for all. Off gear, now as environmental stat
    (2) Return of diminishing return curves for pvp only. Including HP and Power
    (3) Bring back NCL. Seasonal resets, permanent.
    (4) Bring back solo q. Permanent feature.

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions/p1
    Pvpbysynergy.png
    Iyon the Dark
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.
  • elrondknightelrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User

    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
    How would it take months? That makes no sense...

    All the work was done in @josiahiyon post here:http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions

    Its very easy.

    1) Remove Tenacity on gear. Increase each characters base from 10% to 35% tenacity for everyone.
    2) Implement a diminishing returns curve on stats for PVP only that is different than PVE. The formulas and work are ALL done for the DEVs.



  • elrondknightelrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    ayroux said:

    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
    How would it take months? That makes no sense...

    All the work was done in @josiahiyon post here:http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions

    Its very easy.

    1) Remove Tenacity on gear. Increase each characters base from 10% to 35% tenacity for everyone.
    2) Implement a diminishing returns curve on stats for PVP only that is different than PVE. The formulas and work are ALL done for the DEVs.



    The devs have been trying to fix class balance for over a year now. There is a list of bugs that are unfixed going back to mod 5 or 6. Every time a new mod drops Foundry breaks and it takes weeks to get online. I think, if you expect any "simple" fix to be enacted quickly, you are ignoring the past precedents. However, this is all really besides the point. In order to enact ANY changes, they have to go thru the corporate approval process. That could take many, many... many meetings. Also, since this idea is coming from a player, i think the probability of it being picked up, whole, and embraced by the devs unlikely. It is more likely that they will view it as peeing in their lemonade. Solo queue, on the other hand, is something that the devs have already been working on. They have the foundation already in place. They have invested the time in it, and I think that is more likely to be implemented than any other proposed solutions to the PvP problem. So, if you wouldn't mind, answer the question... Why can't we have a solo queue until the devs finally decide to get down to business and really devote some time to fixing PvP?

  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User

    ayroux said:

    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
    How would it take months? That makes no sense...

    All the work was done in @josiahiyon post here:http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions

    Its very easy.

    1) Remove Tenacity on gear. Increase each characters base from 10% to 35% tenacity for everyone.
    2) Implement a diminishing returns curve on stats for PVP only that is different than PVE. The formulas and work are ALL done for the DEVs.



    The devs have been trying to fix class balance for over a year now. There is a list of bugs that are unfixed going back to mod 5 or 6. Every time a new mod drops Foundry breaks and it takes weeks to get online. I think, if you expect any "simple" fix to be enacted quickly, you are ignoring the past precedents. However, this is all really besides the point. In order to enact ANY changes, they have to go thru the corporate approval process. That could take many, many... many meetings. Also, since this idea is coming from a player, i think the probability of it being picked up, whole, and embraced by the devs unlikely. It is more likely that they will view it as peeing in their lemonade. Solo queue, on the other hand, is something that the devs have already been working on. They have the foundation already in place. They have invested the time in it, and I think that is more likely to be implemented than any other proposed solutions to the PvP problem. So, if you wouldn't mind, answer the question... Why can't we have a solo queue until the devs finally decide to get down to business and really devote some time to fixing PvP?

    LOL Class balance will NEVER be "balanced" that is a pipedream. Look at games that dont even have "gear" like Overwatch or its brother "Paladins" and they have a hard time balancing classes. Neverwinter will NEVER have balanced classes.

    You even further make my point that PVP needs a MAJOR change. Everymodule that I have played, new "PVP breaking" things come online.

    Going back to the VERY beginning. Tenebrous Enchants through module 1. With module 2 came the infamous "Emblem" Artifact. Then you have things like module 3 - I forget the artifact but it allowed you to 1 shot someone... Then you had boons like Avalanche that was multi-proccing etc etc.

    Each module, each release of new artifacts, boons, etc. ALL breaks PVP. It doesnt really impact PVE that much. None of those things were broken in PVP.

    This is exactly the problem. They need to separate out these game modes because right now, allowing 100% of the PVE stuff in PVP breaks it.

    A PRIME example is companions. SH Siege and OW PVP - one of the issues that plagues those are companions.

    what they NEED to do is remove all boons/mounts/companions/insignias/etc from PVP> Frankly, I dont see them doing that though so the NEXT best thing is to diminish the impact of all of those things via what that link stated:

    - remove tenacity on gear
    - Diminishing return curve for PVP only.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    The obvious solution to this problem is to grind out the gear with a team of your own. But I get the feeling my thoughts on this are in the minority.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
    Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    The obvious solution to this problem is to grind out the gear with a team of your own. But I get the feeling my thoughts on this are in the minority.

    People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!? Oh and all that money and time you spent gearing up your character for PVP already should just not count and be forced to use a cookie cutter build and gear. I swear communism is taking over every facet of the world.

    Some people like their individual builds and special gem loadouts. And we should be able to use whatever we have at our disposal to win the game. You know as long it isnt cheating of course.

    But on the the OP's topic.. Yes there should always be a solo que. But with a few stipulations...
    1. Make it so you can't que sync it by not telling you up at the top if you have "Waiting in que" or "MAP" so you wont know if its about to pop and have no warning when it pulls you in.
    2. Make it so it doesn't favor guildmates, friends or alliance people to put them on your team.

    Hey look I just fixed the whole issue with solo que right there wow that was easy.

    Class balance and other issues are a completely different issue then the OP's post and are pointless to talk about here. If you are against solo queing you just wanna fight pugs with your 5 man but don't wanna admit it.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    If you Sync solo Q you could just as well end up on the opposite team ... even if you can see the Q pop
  • lonewolfmk1lonewolfmk1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    While your suggestions are good, facing full premades ist still a problem, the soloque could easily solve. I have got a pretty much BIS PVP char (GF) and can go toe to toe with many well equipped players from pvp guilds, one on one that is (my guild has only guild hall 11, so missing a lot of the guild boons, and i am its only serious pvp member). As soon as you are facing a powerfull premade and you are the only well geared player in the team, its gg, especially, if that premade is using TS. And your suggestions wont change that fact at all. And i have some experience with this, as i still remember the times, when there wasnt such a thing as "tenecity" in the game.

    But soloque would, especially if cryptic at least tries again to get a proper elo system running to get ballanced teams. Far to often i see pvps, where all the powerfull players are in one team, despite all having qued seperatly. I still dont undestand how they broke it, it used to work reasonably fine in the past. Sometimes i get the feeling, that cryptic has given up on pvp, like with the foundry. The last developer live stream also seemed to indicate as much.

    I could write an essay, but the main point is, there is literally zero harm in making the soloque a permanent feature, and there is a good chance, that it will improve the overall pvp experience.
  • overdriver13overdriver13 Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    "People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!?". I work 40 hours a week already. If I sit down to enjoy a game and gotta work to enjoy the game, I'm playing the wrong game.
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    "People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!?". I work 40 hours a week already. If I sit down to enjoy a game and gotta work to enjoy the game, I'm playing the wrong game.

    The amount of sarcasm in beginning of my post I thought would be obvious. Not sure if everyone noticed lol.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User

    "People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!?". I work 40 hours a week already. If I sit down to enjoy a game and gotta work to enjoy the game, I'm playing the wrong game.

    We all have to put in the time bro, which is why I mentioned forming a team of your own in my previous post. Most of us have got jobs and kids to deal with too, you just have to take some time out of your busy raid schedule and get it done.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
    Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • overdriver13overdriver13 Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    Not worth it IMO. That is the view I have as a returning player. It's not even worth the time it takes to set up a bot. Last few nights, you're lucky to get roflstomped by a guild premade. Usually the que just sits unpopped and there are no matches at all. PvP in NWO is sadly dead. I guess I keep posting in some misplaced hope that things will change and it will become worth any kind of investment.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    If it's not worth your time, then why post at all? Complaining doesn't help anybody, least of all you.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
    Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    Yes to solo Q. PvP NEEDS a bandaid now, even if it not the holy grail of PvP salvation. It is time to bring it back!
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    Not sure how this isnt already a thing tbh. Oh wait they keep making only pve changes.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    I really am starting to get tired of meeting premades one after the other. So much time wasted for all of us. Absolute rubbish.
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    So does anyone have any ideas as to why the devs have not added solo Q?
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • mcgwarfacemcgwarface Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    Im not really sure why they keep turning it off. Makes me think one of the Devs is part of a Pre Made group and enjoys owning ;) Solo que makes more players relevant than not. It is the best temp solution until fixes are made in Mod 1374.
  • waywardwizard#4349 waywardwizard Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    Oh man, the big pvp guilds still writing those same old, endless improvement suggestions :smile: Like a dog chasing its own tail.

    Making everyone equal in a pvp environment is nothing new. Its being done by other games very well, its out there and any developer can copy it. They dont need us telling them how, what is important is they dont want to do it. Simple as that. Why? I'll let you folks work that out yourselves.
  • sweatapodimassweatapodimas Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    Have the Devs weighed in on this lately? Came back to pvp last night and it was a WASTELAND. It took me 15 min to get into a match :(
    "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    Im not really sure why they keep turning it off. Makes me think one of the Devs is part of a Pre Made group and enjoys owning ;) Solo que makes more players relevant than not. It is the best temp solution until fixes are made in Mod 1374.

    LOL there is no DeV in any premade stomping group in Pvp on PC 100% for sure
    even when there was Pvp with the devs they came out in the most embarrassing crappy gear ever
    worst powers ever and did not even use thier mount at the camp to ride to mid they WALKED to go contest the point
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    Have the Devs weighed in on this lately? Came back to pvp last night and it was a WASTELAND. It took me 15 min to get into a match :(

    I am guessing you are not Europe-based; the queues here pop up very frequently. Other than that, all the other match-making problems exist.

    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    i voted yes.

    but to be honest, they should keep it event thing. and empower it.
    let it be an event where u reset the table (and make it works)
    drop prizes random in PVP if you cap durring this time. (limit amout of prices per day if you afraid of point trading, or let the prize be equal the amounts of kills/hp delt during capture)
    bring the leauge back durring the event with the old prices.

    what ever they feel, just bring something new and not only bug fixes.
  • sweatapodimassweatapodimas Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Still no word as to why this is (seemingly) being scrapped? @mimicking#6533
    @nitocris83


    Perhaps they should consider the soloQ as a non-competitive league vs the 5 man "competitive league". Not-so-different when I played intramural basketball in grad school, i.e. they had this type of tiered system. Hell I like playing recklessly in the soloQ, lowbies get kills/talk HAMSTER and it was as fun as a competitive 5v5 premade match.

    I hope I didn't just cast Raise Dead on this thread. It would only have 1 hp (old DnD reference) :p
    "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
  • kronus#9296 kronus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 163 Arc User
    I'm still trying to figure out how the hell PvP became so damn important in a wait for it.......Dungeons & Dragons based computer game. It's always been a solo or party based PvE game since the days of desktop D&D. There were some things that were tried by TSR to do some things like PvP but I've never heard of them working and were nerfed. If they don't permanently add soloQ, as soon as I get the Glory needed for the one lousy PvP structure we need for the guild I'm in, I won't even try to bother with it again. In a previous comment on this thread someone had stated that it is basically dead now and I think they are right. The PvE is and always should be more important in a game such as this especially since that is what the D&D worlds were developed for.df
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    rynardm said:

    I'm still trying to figure out how the hell PvP became so damn important in a wait for it.......Dungeons & Dragons based computer game. It's always been a solo or party based PvE game since the days of desktop D&D. There were some things that were tried by TSR to do some things like PvP but I've never heard of them working and were nerfed. If they don't permanently add soloQ, as soon as I get the Glory needed for the one lousy PvP structure we need for the guild I'm in, I won't even try to bother with it again. In a previous comment on this thread someone had stated that it is basically dead now and I think they are right. The PvE is and always should be more important in a game such as this especially since that is what the D&D worlds were developed for.df

    Yeah this is very fair, however unbeknownst to the DEVs, they created a true diamond of a PVP game. The simplistic encounter/at will design of a few abilities, coupled with cooldowns - mimics the "Overwatch" esq simplicity that everyone LOVES to pick up as its very inviting and friendly and allows you to feel you can pick up a character and play him very quickly/easily.... While at the same time, hidden within the character customization is a deep "difficult to master" itemization as well as that same concept applying to the combat system itself where kills can be very rewarding, and countering other players builds, moves, abilities, at the same time striving for control over domination points.... It really has something "special" to offer and MANY players came to this game, invested $ into it, and fell inlove with it for its PVP.

    When this game was at its peak in population (and profits mind you) There were TONS of people on twitch streaming PVP. The Russian NW server, was even more "harcore" with its PVP.

    The issue, is that PVP players, invested SO much in their characters and this game, its made it very difficult to leave.. I know some that have invested thousands... As in plural (meaning more than 1).

    It has ALOT of things going for it, that attract PVPers.... Its a shame its fallen so far from its "roots".


    I recall a time, where I would get on during Dungeon Delves (which I still think is genius BTW as it "rallies" the community to all do the same thing at the same time). We would run T2 dungeons for T2 gear, in which, not only was it the BIS gear to USE... it was also sellable, which created a very healthy and fun place to play. Doing dungeons = profit. Doing dungeons = how you gear for both PVE and PVP. It didnt require "RP" or "dailies". Then you would Que up for PVP, and never knew what you would get! It was awesome. The population was large enough that you would occasionally meet people who were very formidable opponents you had never met before. You might bump into a premade, in which it would intice you to make your own and challenge them! The premade scene was very healthy, even hosting tournaments both on the live server and the PTR - which was streamed and brought in even MORE players and MORE profits for the game.

    But the key was, the PVP went "hand in hand" with PVE. The gear needed for PVP was farmed/earned through doing DUNGEON runs. There were not "tenacity" that forced you to have separate gear or enchants... Sure builds and stats varied, but even the most hardcore PVE players were still solid opponents in PVP , able to hold their own.

    it was a good time...

    Then came the modules. Module 1 was largely a success. It brought new gear, new dungeon, with new BIS gear earned THROUGH that dungeon. It gave us something more to do for a while.... However then we started to fall deeper down the rabbit hole... Module 2 brought "artifacts" and needing "RP" to level them. No longer was BIS gear "dropped". You now had to get these and spend currency to level them up - creating a "pay wall" for PVP. You also saw broken items like the Emblem which made PVP a "Emblem or GTFO" type of game... Forcing players to spend 6M AD on these for a GREEN item, and it alone would allow a player to take on several opponents and win. Also, with this it started to create a "gap" between players. This is where I had to choose.... Before this, I played SEVERAL classes and had decent gear on them all and was able to compete in PVP on any of them, depending on my mood.... Mod 2 made me focus on just 1 of them due to the high AD cost and time demand to do the dailies.

    Mod 3+ broke the camels back, and we have not recovered since... More boons, more gear gap, now "tenactiy" creates a "gear divide" permanently separating the PVE and PVP player base... Companions completely ruined any open world PVP. Overpowered GWF/HR builds that were unkillable and dominated domination so much so, that the only moderately non GWF/HR class that could even play PVP was a TR - who didnt even fight but contested nodes 24/7 without dying...

    Since then, it has never recovered..... I dont understand how they dont look at this timeline and think.... Hmmm... maybe we took the wrong path. Maybe "dailies" were not the best idea. Maybe deviating from having Dungeons the main focus... wasnt a good idea. Maybe having to level gear up, compared to just having it drop... wasnt a good idea... maybe having a "divide" in gear for PVE and PVP player bases... wasnt a good idea.

    The PVP solution is simple. Go back to when it was good. The "HOW" is simple as well.
    - Every character currently has 10% base tenacity. Increase this to the current levels and remove tenacity as a stat on gear. This brings us BACK to "PVE offers the best PVP gear" which ENCOURAGES more people to play PVE AND PVP.

    - Next would be to REMOVE all the boons in PVP. This has created a massive gap between the average player and the seasoned VET. The boons make up more stats than all your gear combined and cant even be farmed... they are time gated.. so even once someone hits lvl 70, they have no hope in being "competitive" for atleast a month of playing every. single. day.... Even many "retired" players list the boons as the #1 reason they dont want to come back. They dont want to do daily quests that are all largely boring and repetitive, every day, just to eventually be competitive after farming their boons for weeks, if not months....

    There are others, that have been written about all over these forums (such as mounts and overloads, etc.), so I wont write more, but this is the direction this game needs to go, and unless it stops trying to "money grab" from its players by sticking to this "RP for gear" system.... itll never re-populate back to former levels... Which BTW, it STILL COULD, if it went back to the EXCELLENT game model this game used to be before all the modules screwed it all up.

    Put the focus on dungeons, remove the "gear gap" not only between PVE and PVP but the "casual PVPer" vs the "Veteran PVPer". This is what will #MakeNeverwinterGreatAgain!



  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    rynardm said:

    I'm still trying to figure out how the hell PvP became so damn important in a wait for it.......Dungeons & Dragons based computer game. It's always been a solo or party based PvE game since the days of desktop D&D. There were some things that were tried by TSR to do some things like PvP but I've never heard of them working and were nerfed. If they don't permanently add soloQ, as soon as I get the Glory needed for the one lousy PvP structure we need for the guild I'm in, I won't even try to bother with it again. In a previous comment on this thread someone had stated that it is basically dead now and I think they are right. The PvE is and always should be more important in a game such as this especially since that is what the D&D worlds were developed for.df

    Nah , my first experiance with table top RPG was in scholl, 2 masters started a week long campaing (was a week for any social or cultural activity, we enter as a team, in last quest we got the same "contract and at some poit the partys clashed, the masters worked together and we had to pass our actions on paper for them before acting, some actions went in secret, like our ilusionist trap, was a really fun fight, we decide to keep the other party alive in the end, most off them at least...

    was really fun, and was some kind of pvp on D&D tabletop :)

    the problem with neverwinter pvp is that he's broken, really broken...

    tenacity is a weird thing that keep almost any pve player away from pvp and the classes are not balanced for a fair fight, plus there's no kind of tier, so in the end we get a lot of one sided matches...

    the Solo queue dont solve this but at least make it random...
  • swikklesswikkles Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    why not have both? Have a Team queue and solo queue.... Teams/Guilds will need a way to play together and challenge other Teams/Guilds in PvP... And Players who don't want to end up in that crossfire also need also need a random solo queue which results in a 5v5 randomly picked completely separate from the team queue.
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