Vladek's SB Fury Face-Melting Guide

strykr75601 · February 2017

After many requests, I've finally made it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1coX919R12KxKFC7WalNBHw-bfTrz4otmgb5vmrFB-60/edit?usp=sharing

merhunesdagon1 · February 2017

strykr75601 said:
After many requests, I've finally made it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1coX919R12KxKFC7WalNBHw-bfTrz4otmgb5vmrFB-60/edit?usp=sharing

Thnxs man. found alot of things I was doing wrong by reading this.

d4rkh0rs3 · February 2017

A few notes:

- Protector's Friendship
- Assassin's Covenant
- I claim Human and Dragonborn are the best races for SW. Both are better than Tiefling.

- Orcus set isn't as necessary as you may think, specifically in group content with significant damage bonuses. Consider the CON belt an alternative (no set bonus).
- Endgame groups with DCs and OPs tend to favor Hellbringer over Soulbinder. The cooldown reduction allows you to spam Killing Flames quite often and enemies typically do not live long enough to enjoy being hit by more than a couple Soul Scorches (at best). Even if enemies do take longer to kill, whatever gain you achieve from Soul Scorch + Blades + Essence Defilier must be compared against Owl Bear Pillar of Power + Firey Bolt/Arms of Hadar/Hadar's Grasp + Hellish Rebuke (and the Hellbringer self-damage buffs, of course).
- Hellbringer improves team buffs, enemy debuffs, and team survivability.

darthbane13 · February 2017

Human over tiefling?? Why? The extra features points? I can see Dragonborn for sure though.

d4rkh0rs3 · February 2017

With Human, Blood Pact of Cania can grant you an additional 3% damage bonus to Constitution (+5% total), which is a separate damage multiplier "bin" (ability score) than the rest of your character's damage bonuses.

beckylunatic · February 2017

Are you aware that you don't have to assign feat points in each tier? For example, you could take Hope Stealer and Vengeful Curse while still accessing Dark Revelry. Your writing slightly indicates that you are making some feat choices as an either/or decision when it's possible your build would be better served by selecting yet another earlier option.

darthbane13 · February 2017

I remember reading somewhere that blood pact of cania was bugged after 2 points? Anyone know for sure (empirical test) if the extra heroic feat points are well spent there for a human char? And @beckylunatic , learning small things every day, that was something I actually did not know lol. Ty for the heads up mate!

beckylunatic · February 2017

I was looking at Blood Pact of Cania and recalling earlier reports that it was broken. Now that we have test weapons, it would be easy to find out.

d4rkh0rs3 · February 2017

@beckylunatic is correct with feat choices and earlier reports of Blood Pact of Cania.

Blood Pact of Cania was reported broken many mods ago but my understanding is it was fixed. My initial guess is that it was fixed with either Underdark expansion or SW "class balance".

It will have to be tested because what worked in a previous patch may not work in the current patch.

darthbane13 · February 2017

Awesome gents, giving me something to think about. Let me know if anyone opts to test out blood pact as well, on ps4 here and no real ability to test.

plasmageek · February 2017

Thank you for the guide. I've been having to guess my way through SB (I've tried HB so many times and just can't stand its play style). Going to be testing this out and hoping for some better results

schietindebux · February 2017

d4rkh0rs3 said:
@beckylunatic is correct with feat choices and earlier reports of Blood Pact of Cania.

Blood Pact of Cania was reported broken many mods ago but my understanding is it was fixed. My initial guess is that it was fixed with either Underdark expansion or SW "class balance".

It will have to be tested because what worked in a previous patch may not work in the current patch.

Bloodpact is a 5% damage increase on preview, like 100 damage at 0/5 and 105 at 5/5.
Can´t tell what this will do on a 100% critbuild with 165% Severity using vorp, same or less?

d4rkh0rs3 · February 2017

@schietindebux thanks for confirming.

My understanding is ability scores are in their own multiplier "bin". So if your CON is 28, that's 18%. Factor in 5/5 Blood Pact of Cania for another 5%. Total is 23%. This damage bonus is separate from the damage buffs from feats, power, and third party effects (Into the Fray). Therefore, it is not subject to the same scale of diminishing returns experienced by the Dragonborn racial bonus (3% power) or Tiefling racial bonus (5% damage bonus when enemy has < 50% health).

To answer your question, the damage will be LESS, as it can never be MORE than 5%. This is why maxing your character's ability score damage bonuses are a great idea.

darthbane13 · February 2017

Interesting, so with the tiefling 5% damage at 50% health is effectively 2.5% damage increase, while if the scaled damage from blood pact is 3% with human. However, lose out on the +2 CON and CHAR.

d4rkh0rs3 · February 2017

You only lose out on +2 CHA if you choose human.

diloul31 · February 2017

I disagree with the HB dont't work with mobility.
You have no obligation to use dark revelry so in damnation path you can use the feat that allow you to go outside POP ans still benefit 5s buff/debuff ( same for the rest of the group party).

As for dps output, it is extremely rare to see SB on ps4 but you say no SW can outdps you, i have yet to see a SB with similar GS/gear outdps me xD.

But it's a well writed guide for those who care only about SB and dps.

I think Fernuu has proved that the difference is very small.

And i dont see why i would choose SB if i can do same dps with HB while buffing defense and dps of the whole party. (not to mention that POP now debuff ennemi since last update.)

It feels like : " i dont want others doing more dps than me and i will not help them do more damage and get extra defense"

Don't take it personally, but i think considering HB and SB, SB is a selfish build when HB is a very viable build and team-friendly.

Sure most of the content don't need that kind of "support" but with endgame it's really nice addition.

If i do even 10% less damage while the team do more damage and have better survability, overall it's a good thing.

If the difference between HB and SB was huge, i would go for SB but that's avsolutely not the case here...

Refusing to buff the party just to do a little more damage isn't my way of playing a coop game xD

I'm not judging thought, everyone play the build he wants.

merhunesdagon1 · March 2017

d4rkh0rs3 said:
You only lose out on +2 CHA if you choose human.

well, vladek's guide pretty much explained that. tiefling is the best choice for sw, or anything giving you +2 cha, but there's other ways to get that +2 cha. like from a belt for example. 28 cha can be obtained without a tiefling or a dragonborn and 28-30 cha is all you would really need.

strykr75601 · March 2017

Well, back after a while and I see a large amount of feedback on my guide already, it's good to see. And it's plain to see I need to clarify a few things:

First of all, I don't view my choice to go SB as a selfish one. I have always preferred SB over HB mechanically, and in no way did I state that SB is a superior class to HB. (Quote from my guide: "I am not saying conclusively that SB is better than HB for PvE play. I, personally, have always gotten better results as SB, but obviously some people will find the opposite to be true for them.") I simply have never had an HB beat me. I don't believe that it is impossible to do by any means. In my experience, and for my character specifically in the groups I generally run, a 7.5% damage output boost to my party would still net less overall outgoing damage for the run as a whole. Obviously, this will not always be the case, but I build my character for the majority of the runs I do, not for a select minority. Moreover, with Dark Revelry, I give my party 20% of their base power as a bonus, so I hardly think I ignore supporting my party.

Secondly, as for the debate regarding race. I have never noticed a significant difference in damage between the three races I have played my SW as: Tiefling, Dragonborn, and Drow. On paper, Tiefling and Dragonborn have the best bonuses suited for maxing out your statistics like crit. And, for my build, as I stated, crit is essential. That was the purpose for recommending those classes for a Soulbinder build.

Third, yes, you can choose to max out two tiers of a feat tree to skip over the next one, and indeed that is path I take when I am running a Temptation SW. In the specific case @beckylunatic referenced, the temp HP from Compounded Soul is marginally more beneficial to me, and the party, than the 10% chance to apply lesser curse. Most enemies in range of attacking me are also in range of me attacking them, which means they would automatically have a lesser curse applied to them, thanks to BoVA. If they were not in range, yes, Vengeful Curse would indeed curse them, but I would gain little to no benefit from it, as they would not suffer from Creeping Death. If there are specific questions regarding the choice of one feat over another, I welcome them and will do my best to add that information to the guide.

Finally, I appreciate the input @d4rkh0rs3 gave on the differences between Soulbinder and Hellbringer, and it indeed is valid and good. I do agree that I need to put a bit more information into the section regarding mount insignia bonuses and I will; this guide will be updated as I learn more about the class. However, I would appreciate it if the comments comparing SB to HB were to end, as this guide is solely to highlight my SB build, not to compare the two trees.

Thank you all for your feedback on my post, and I welcome further as it is updated.

One final thing, for those who have used the build and this guide, please, I would appreciate feedback regarding your results. Feel free to mail me ingame at Vladek@strykr75601.

darthbane13 · March 2017

@strykr75601, the guide was very helpful on my end. A PS4 player here, but I really enjoy playing around with the mechanics of the SW. Coming from a HB to SB is a big difference in mechanics, but I enjoy the challenge as it keeps the game fresh and enjoyable. I have been toying around with DT as a spark generator versus bova in some circumstances, mainly to generate at a distance for mobs. I sometimes have the issue of wanting to run in first, only to get mauled my mobs and proc my soulforged lol.

strykr75601 · March 2017

@darthbane13#2662 DT is a very effective spark generator for sure, especially coupled with the 15% debuff on enemies it hits. I dropped it in favor of BoVA so I could cast other powers while BoVA is running. I'm glad to hear it's working for you!

darthbane13 · March 2017

So on that note, I was running dust to dust for the constant dailies between mobs versus shadow walk, but I could see how the latter (greater mobility, deflect and life steal) would work well with BOVA, I just don't have the AP gain to constantly spam dailies with dust to dust

darthbane13 · March 2017

So considering how this is a SB fury discussion, I'm gonna throw this out here. Currently on ps4, and I was testing out the SS damage mechanic with no ACC, companion or rising sudden rings. My intent was to determine exactly how much damage the burn dot effect from SS does, and according to the in game damage logs, the dot was only equivalent to the initial hit of SS spread over 6 seconds. So essentially the 60k hit was initial, followed by the burn damage (shown by in game logs) ticking for 10k each second over 6 seconds. Is his correct? Or is the burn multiple hits of the initial hit plus the extra burn? Sorry for the novel, but I am trying to determine how much extra damage the curse consume mechanic allows. Is it doubling the damage by burn (60k +60k burn) or is it supposed to be hitting for 60k+(60k+10k)+(60k+10k) etc etc??

strykr75601 · March 2017

@darthbane13#2662 So there are some interesting mechanics at play, it seems. Upon first inspection, it seems that soul scorch burn (SSB henceforth) will hit proc five times, every time you cast SS. The interesting part about that is that USUALLY, the first 4 hits are done at 104-108% effectiveness, with the fifth and final hit USUALLY at 100% effectiveness, i.e. slightly lower damage than the previous ticks.

Shown above is the parse for a single cast of SS

Now, when you multi-cast SS, cursing after each application, something slightly different happens. The FIRST cast seems to proc the slightly lower burn tick FIRST, while the second cast seems to have its lower tick LAST.

Above is the parse for multi casting SS

On average, SSB seems to deal 70-85% of the initial cast of SS, spread across 5 ticks. I have not yet tested it with buffs, or any other factors beyond my character's powers.

darthbane13 · March 2017

Thanks for the detailed explanation @strykr75601, but for some reason I can't view the imagery you posted. So essentially the curse consume almost doubles the overall damage of SS?

strykr75601 · March 2017

@darthbane13#2662 That is correct. Right click the image icon and click "open image in new tab" and you should be able to view the parse.

darthbane13 · March 2017

This has all been through my phone, so I'll check it out when I arrive home. Thanks again for the clarification, I've been enjoying going nuclear with SS lol. I have found an understated beauty in the SW, I find I'm able to fully enjoy both HB and SB versions due to the unique mechanics of both. Just trying to master both aspects now lol

schietindebux · March 2017

ON liveserver SS (WC applied) hits and the DOT ticks five times for 80% damage overall (PC).
If you do a 10k hit the DOT is 80% in 5 ticks a 1,6k
On Preview actually that DOT ticks 6 time for 100% like 6x1,666, obviuosly a change.

strykr75601 · March 2017

schietindebux said:
ON liveserver SS (WC applied) hits and the DOT ticks five times for 80% damage overall (PC).
If you do a 10k hit the DOT is 80% in 5 ticks a 1,6k
On Preview actually that DOT ticks 6 time for 100% like 6x1,666, obviuosly a change.

I think that 80% of the initial hit was the intent of the developers, but in practice, according to my ACT parses, it ranged slightly in the numbers I posted. Perhaps that has to do with the varying effectiveness of the SSB ticks, but I rarely got a result where SSB dealt 80% of the base damage. If you look at my first parse and go from base damage, the initial strike of SS dealt 98050 damage. 80% of that would come to 78440, and one fifth of that would be 15688 damage. However, the base damage of the ticks was 14514. Looking at base damages only, SSB dealt 72570 damage on a base of 98050, netting a SSB/SS damage ratio of 74.01%.

80% is probably a reasonable rule of thumb, but I can't say for sure the exact number. If what @schietindebux says about Preview is true, though, I am reasonably excited for that buff to SS.

schietindebux · March 2017

YOu have to get rid of your twisted set, your reising power rings, your companions, etc.
You should take into account feats like "Burning Soul", Dark Revelry and some boons also, and use the test weapon.
Doing so all is as it should imo.

strykr75601 · March 2017

By doing so, yes, you get a purer test, but you also create a very unrealistic scenario. In theory SSB could be dealing 80% of the damage dealt by SS, but how often will that actually happen in a game setting? I, for one, will never run a dungeon without my relic set or my companion for any purpose other that laughs. I try to make it a habit to do all my testing in a setting that most players will be running in.

tyrtallow · March 2017

Are you guys sure this isn't just an issue with Warlock's Curse damage buff increasing initial SS damage and then disappearing for the rest of the equation because you forgot to put it back up again?

I honestly don't see a problem with "selfish" builds (bit of a misnomer in this case) as long as they do their job. Because debuffs have a cap, it helps if someone brings the the raw damage numbers. For the record, the HB's damage buff (Flames of Empowerment) is subject to that cap (it's actually a debuff even though only you benefit from it).

The meta is also ever-evolving. Tyrannical Curse doesn't stack with Warlock's Curse but they don't override each other anymore so SBSW WC+SS spam during TC is a massive damage spike in PvE. It's very noticeable in long fights.

Vladek's SB Fury Face-Melting Guide

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