I played Temptation enough , as mentioned above several mods in PVE and PVP. Atm this tree is redicules bad in PVP because it is impossible to defeat geared/skilled contrahents and because capstone is punished twice, making it useless in PVP. On top you are very squishy as a HB templock because you lack in dps/selfheal by that far weaker than HB fury (tested myself). Only build you can run as templock is a nodeholder being SB, by that worse than damnation or fury. Same problem in PVE lacking in dps like 40%< Fury or more. Since the leader role is not working for actual content, all this tree provides is slowing down every dungeonrun significant, sadly. There is no templock mania, and there are not hater, there is a discussion about this tree for years now, pointing exactly on the inefficiency of this tree. The deeper fall of templock lately was caused by 1. implementing FBI and SVA, where lot´s of mob just onehit without pretty strong buffs and mitigation abilities and 2. the rework in mod 10 buffed Creeping Death, now dealing far mor damage than before, increasing the gap between Temptation and Fury significant, damnation is in between.
If Temptation tree should be from any interest in the future, it needs either a boost in dps to be a viable strike or a significant boost in buffs/mitigation to be a viable leader (wich I would prefer). Otherwise noone will count on this tree and outside every guildrun it will be hard to get a step into endcontent
@bloodyspamer At last; I do not understand how you can judge about this tree in case you did not run any endcontent or run PVP for a considerable time, beside the fact that 2 weeks running with a DC is rediculessly short to have any clue about this class.
haven't had a single issue with my templock in any content, buffing party dmg and debuffing enemy dr/dmg is more than enough for now, it's not about what a class doesn't have, it's about what you can do WITH it, sure, temptation tree does need some reworking, but to tell people to not even try the class? that's just ignorant, might as well say don't ever play a spellstorm cw since MoF debuffs are more important for a party while you're at it, hell why even have more than gf dc and gwf? who needs diversity? drop the rest of the classes since those 3 are the master race. Honestly instead of picking apart everything, GIVE SUGGESTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP
I played Temptation enough , as mentioned above several mods in PVE and PVP. Atm this tree is redicules bad in PVP because it is impossible to defeat geared/skilled contrahents and because capstone is punished twice, making it useless in PVP. On top you are very squishy as a HB templock because you lack in dps/selfheal by that far weaker than HB fury (tested myself). Only build you can run is a nodeholder being SB, by that worse than damnation or fury. Same problem in PVE lacking in dps like 40%< Fury or more. Since the leader role is not working for actual content, all this tree provides is slowing down every dungeonrun significant, sadly.
IF u played as templock in mod 4 and mod 5, Then it's same as you haven't played. Because we are in mod 10.5 not in mod 6. I have played with CW in mod 3, so does that make me smartest one in CW buildings, gameplay and etc? The answer is no. IF I have question about something like damnation building, gameplay etc, I ask the one who play with damnation. If I have question about CW master of flames builds, I will ask guy who play with it. IF I want to hear info about gwf performance, I ask gwf.
AS for pvp, SB is more better there. Why? Simply due tactical reasons. Pillar of Power even if it would provide gazillion dps boost, and full incoming DMG negation, it will make templock easy mark. Outside PoP u become weak, Also It's easy to notice PoP circle. and only blind ones would not. I don't know how about u, but SW is not ment go head2head fight with tanks.. And over all pvp without using dodging properly, without using obstacles to get advantage is not pvp at all. I have seen how guys pvp, facing each other in fight face2face, both eating incoming hits. Such fight is called gear/buff demonstration not pvp. And to know for u, icewindale, dvarf valley open world pvp I do it time to time. EVen due bug which my templock heal enemies in same rates as allies, even fight is harder, yet still I can deal with other players. So pvp is even in this mod is not new for me..
You say templock lack dps compared to furry. < yea sure, Now perhaps by same way lets compare heal DC vs gwf dps? Next, pvp is not 1vs5, neither it's duel 1vs1,. Supporting comes in many forms, healing, buffing/debuffing is not only ways. CC also can be consider as supporting, assisting also can be consider as supporting. Enough to make opening so that allies would get extra advantage in fight = supporting. Luring player out of group to trap/ambush = supporting.. Seems you lack creativity in fights.. And this is big difference between me and you.
Leader role, is not only providing buffs, debuffs and healing. Leading is when you moderate field in favor to team. One of simply example. Twin scorpions in Lostmouth dungeon. I lure one of scorpion away from team, while they deal with other one. Or simply keeping scorpion just in range from others, while I apply DoT based effects on scorpion which party fighting with..
There is no templock mania, and there are not hater, there is a discussion about this tree for years now, pointing exactly on the inefficiency of this tree. The deeper fall of templock lately was caused by 1. implementing FBI and SVA, where lot´s of mob just onehit without pretty strong buffs and mitigation abilities and 2. the rework in mod 10 buffed Creeping Death, now dealing far mor damage than before, increasing the gap between Temptation and Fury significant, damnation is in between.
No templock haters mania u say.. Yeah sure.. Guys try convince don't play with temptation, give up on it's worthless etc/ . What does that sounds like? It's like I would say: give up on dc, it's not worth, it's dps sucks. It's just not worth. Pick GWF.
Talking for year about templock? Seriously? Ghez, then search mechanic in forum lies. Before I posted my build after mod 10 sw's rework, I looked for latest templock builds, to see how it where. I checked not only warlock forum, discussions, pve/pvp forums too. There where no comments toward templocks for years. So I wonder where did u so talks for Years about templocks... ? When I started run dungeons, players didn't knew what the heck temptation warlock is, it where totally abandoned. So don't put such nonsense claims.
1) One shot in dungeon.. I have seen 4k GS played got one shotted in eTOS dungeon. Tough, high GS, high stats, yet one shot he dead, Why? Lot of Life steal, low Damage reduction from players side. Glass canons builds tend to die a lot.
By the way, u have wrote that end game players usually have enough survivability and no need healing and etc. Now seems they die from one shot.
2) Still don;t understand you.. We talk about furry or templock? Or I should start talk abut DC vs gwf in term of dps? or DC vs GF in term of tanking. Thats how your talks goes.
If Temptation tree should be from any interest in the future, it needs either a boost in dps to be a viable strike or a significant boost in buffs/mitigation to be a viable leader (wich I would prefer). Otherwise noone will count on this tree and outside every guildrun it will be hard to get a step into endcontent
Temptation is not striker. Yet u suggest buff dps to be striker.. And next suggestion is simply convert tempt to DC.
The only way to keep templock viable is to make sure it have different approach than DC to achieve same or similar effect. Also remember that, furry and damnation will be able pick feats too. So if to strong feats would be introduced, furry or damantion would pick and make them overpowered. Which would end in hatred, and nerf requests.
As for endgame content.. It's funny, one guy once wrote me in game. Templock will not get in eDemo runs because he is just bad.. Yet, i did lot of eDemo run with casual players. No one complained, and actually some invited me in friendlist, and time to time invite me to join their alliance eDemo runs. Some wrote that templock is just bad, not worth to pick in eDungeons. And ended same as eDemo. So you claims that I will not get in x content run outside guild/alliance just amuse me.
At last; I do not understand how you can judge about this tree in case you did not run any endcontent or run PVP for a considerable time, beside the fact that 2 weeks running with a DC is rediculessly short to have any clue about this class.
Same question can be apply to u. How u can judge templock if u don't play with templock in current mod, and how can u judge without having more than 2 weeks gameplay time with it.
And with DC I played not 2 weeks. Perhaps u referred to yourself. I have played long enough.. Actually I have 2 DC's. One is in sharred account, and next one in same account where SW is, and it's due DC artifact.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
The thread was ment to point out uselessness of temptation warlock in most of the content as there is not much role to assign to him, neither buff nor practical heal whatsoever, and yes I'm obviously aware scourge warlock can buff, with pillar of power and such but to do this you can be at any path just pick Hellbringer and you got pretty solid buffing capability if you blend into your build Dark Revelry currently is all you need for buffing purposes from temptation tree so, in general is pretty much useless. Also things that supposedly debuff incoming damage aren't really much worth picking up imo, I understand if people sees it differently though, I have no issue, but on the topic.
Like I wrote in older post, I can tolerate that pointing weak side, what stuff need to buff/rework. But I can't tolerate when someone suggest to give up on temptation builds. As for healing, In big fights, templock beating DC by default. Thats why only real competitor I consider Paladins.
AS for weakness and way to fix. Vampiric embrace need add feature, that encounter would be piercing by nature. Even if 20k power, without 4k arp is kinda HAMSTER healing.. But once u hit higher arp, vampiric embrace start shine. During mod 10 balancing time, When I build first (test) templock, I didn't used VE at all. By dmg numbers it HAMSTER. But through fights, I notice that it's not so bad at all. But it' depend on arp.
As for changes.. well. Aura of despair merge with aura of cruelity and making space for other possible ffeats.
Also My suggestion that HB's hellish rebuke would work same or similar to CW's master of flame: Scorching Burst To more precise to have it's mechanic how apply DoT effect. From furry side, it would boost dmg performance, because it would be possible use on multiple target or single one. For templock due> hellish condemnation would be possible to apply for more than couple targets. Aura of despair effect boost up from 5% to 10% + chance add extra 5%.
I have other ideas, however as I wrote before, I have no intention to making templock overpowered. Also My ideas more focusing on areal supporting. So all feats effects should not exceed single target buff/debuff powers. In other words, I have no intention to making tempt to strong and kill other supporters.. I want to make templock would be viable, having strong and weak sides, as each class do have.
But to do that, firstly need to have at least some templock population in game. Only then we could get developers attention. Quiting templocks and waiting will not change anything. We waited for changes long enough. I started Templocks resurrection, and hech I will not stop now.
We were promised some templock rework since SH release and everytime they touch SW, is everything except for templock, I hope next time they do anything, they make templock shine.
Everything is based on priorities, and priorities depend on populations. Not so long ago, CW's or gwf's one of powers got broken and players started complain. And glitch where fixed, fastly. While Sw's problem lasted through whole module. Also why templock didn't receive any changes.. well probably because it where abandoned, by players and developers. Why they should dev's spent any time for tempt if no players use it? Simply there is no reason and they don't do it. Also less players complain directly to them, or other forums = less attention = lesser priority.
Also Like I wrote, I don't claim that Templock is uber supporter. I just say it's not worthelss, yet require reworking.
The biggest problem where @etelgrin u posted video here in warlocks forum. IF u would posted in preview, showing recorded performance how it heal, buff and how do stats interact and ect to developers. It would be other thing, because developers more time spent in preview than in other forum parts. They do visit other forums, but warlocks is kinda least visited one, perhaps they do come here once per year.
Any videos, threads where someone say, temptation HAMSTER, bad, worthless = discourage players even try play with temp builds. = reduce chance to get developers attention = smaller priority = higher chance templocks got abandoned(again).
It's so simply, if we try kill temptlocks all alone, then developers had do nothing, just ignore this tree.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Puh, again a lot of HAMSTER to read. @bloodyspamer, You theorize a lot but do no PVP nor actual content. I respecced to templock in mod 10 for a short period, to realize in short time that it is far worse than both other trees atm. I also run damnation in mod 10 and I also run damnation in mod 6 and 8. Run your templock 4ever, going eLoL, VT or MC idk. Everyone may chose whatever he wants to run. If someone tells me he has no issues by running temptation, sure I also never had issues running it in T1 or T2, even CN, have fun doing so. You will have issues running FBI in case that fkn turtle is not going down because you lack in dps/buffs and have to face 14 stacks of Slam and die all time because the leader can´t protect the party against those onehits she dishes out every 10 seconds. Warlocks leaderrole needs a rework, otherwise that tree has a fun aspect...lot´s of green numbers.
Alright, even I like to have fun here by trolling you here. It's time for explanation couple serious stuffs..
1) I play with templock, And I don't give a HAMSTER if any random 1diots try convince me to give up on my character because he don't like it. 2) it's not your buisness/concerns if I clear dungeon, flail it, do it quick or slow, died lot of time or have't at all. It's not your concern what power sets I use, how much I heal and etc. You don't like Templock, Fine, Don't pick in your party.
3) there are not so many templocks in game. so it's not like in every party will be templock. And since u hate them. u will not pick in party. Players will decide to keep templock or give up on it. Not because you Ordering to do so.
4) u are not giving orders to players which supporters to pick for dungeon runs. It's their own problem. I don't think that u would do so called end game dungeons with random players.. 80%+++ time u will do within own alliance/friends parties. So templock hatters stop this nonsense HAMSTER about quiting templock tree.
Puh, again a lot of HAMSTER to read. @bloodyspamer, You theorize a lot but do no PVP nor actual content. I respecced to templock in mod 10 for a short period, to realize in short time that it is far worse than both other trees atm. I also run damnation in mod 10 and I also run damnation in mod 6 and 8. Run your templock 4ever, going eLoL, VT or MC idk. Everyone may chose whatever he wants to run. If someone tells me he has no issues by running temptation, sure I also never had issues running it in T1 or T2, even CN, have fun doing so. You will have issues running FBI in case that fkn turtle is not going down because you lack in dps/buffs and have to face 14 stacks of Slam and die all time because the leader can´t protect the party against those onehits she dishes out every 10 seconds. Warlocks leaderrole needs a rework, otherwise that tree has a fun aspect...lot´s of green numbers.
Like u have done lot of pvp with temptation. I wrote why with templock is problem go in pvp.. Due bug, which heal allies and enemies in same time. Since your brain performance is low I will try explain. I hit enemy, > I deal lets say 5k dmg. Due life steal triggering and healing, I heal allies based on that value, and also heal enemy on that value. So more less, Enemy can kill me, while my hits heal me, allies and him(enemy) in same quantity.
Only one way templock can kill enemy in pvp, is if he do not trigger life steal. And that is real experience from pvp, not like yours paper comparison without having real combat.
I wondering,, how templock become worser in mod 10 than it where before? In mod 10, due rework we received curse sinergy= less cursing/marking. We received Pillar of Power rework which is buff/debuff and dmg. Aura effects areas' got widen. So tell me how templock become worser than it where prior mod 10 huh? Performance increased in good way, yet you claim it become worser. That could happen only due one simple reason. You HAVEN'T played with templock, and all your claims as just based by theories.
AS for damnation. I can bet you played with that build only when Soul Puppet where bugged/glitched and due bad powers interactions where able to deal lot of dmg. In that time, there where lot of guys who did it.. But once Soul Puppet problem where fixed, they gave up on damnation. So I am 100% sure that u where just yet another one who did that.
It's not your concerns how many times I will run dungeons any dungeon, instead calculating how many times I will do dungeons look own stuffs. Don't think u are center of neverwinter. It's not your right to say what kind builds players must choose and which not.
Templock need rework. yes, and since u are least hellping one to get developers attention, neither having ideas how to rework( except DC's powers copy paste). So simply stop discouraging players pick this tree, stop talking about templock at all. It's not your concern who and how will play with templock, and which game content it will run.
And one of most crucial part of this post would be> Stop act as you are center of neverwinter online.. U are just yet another player. It's not like you have right to give order to players which classes/builds play and which ones quit.
Best advice for person like you would be> Don''t like, don't look. < In other words. don't stick nose in templocks business.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
hmm, i gave templock a go about 5 months ago i think and i was pretty happy with it. Heals were better than a buff dc or 3k< dc and buffs were okay i guess, not amazing but i was doing a good job. Edemo was most fun i have to say since group healing was much wider. My only problem was finding out which weapon enchant was best for that path as i tried several and i think in the end i was using t.holy but wasn't very impressed with it and it always felt like something was missing and it was reaching it's whole potential. Alas i am not used to playing a healer so after 3-4 weeks of fun with it i went back to dps.
now, i don't know what has happened since then but i did a respec on my alt sw to temp last week and tried out a dungeon... worst decision ever ) it's probably worth mentioning that i only have sh boons on him, no insignia bonuses and only 1 bonding but still... heals were weak as sh1tte, buffs close to non existent and survivability 0 )) so now i'm gonna let it sit for a while and hope that when i get back to it, it will be better.
Alright, even I like to have fun here by trolling you here. It's time for explanation couple serious stuffs..
1) I play with templock, And I don't give a HAMSTER if any random 1diots try convince me to give up on my character because he don't like it. 2) it's not your buisness/concerns if I clear dungeon, flail it, do it quick or slow, died lot of time or have't at all. It's not your concern what power sets I use, how much I heal and etc. You don't like Templock, Fine, Don't pick in your party.
3) there are not so many templocks in game. so it's not like in every party will be templock. And since u hate them. u will not pick in party. Players will decide to keep templock or give up on it. Not because you Ordering to do so.
4) u are not giving orders to players which supporters to pick for dungeon runs. It's their own problem. I don't think that u would do so called end game dungeons with random players.. 80%+++ time u will do within own alliance/friends parties. So templock hatters stop this nonsense HAMSTER about quiting templock tree.
Puh, again a lot of HAMSTER to read. @bloodyspamer, You theorize a lot but do no PVP nor actual content. I respecced to templock in mod 10 for a short period, to realize in short time that it is far worse than both other trees atm. I also run damnation in mod 10 and I also run damnation in mod 6 and 8. Run your templock 4ever, going eLoL, VT or MC idk. Everyone may chose whatever he wants to run. If someone tells me he has no issues by running temptation, sure I also never had issues running it in T1 or T2, even CN, have fun doing so. You will have issues running FBI in case that fkn turtle is not going down because you lack in dps/buffs and have to face 14 stacks of Slam and die all time because the leader can´t protect the party against those onehits she dishes out every 10 seconds. Warlocks leaderrole needs a rework, otherwise that tree has a fun aspect...lot´s of green numbers.
Like u have done lot of pvp with temptation. I wrote why with templock is problem go in pvp.. Due bug, which heal allies and enemies in same time. Since your brain performance is low I will try explain. I hit enemy, > I deal lets say 5k dmg. Due life steal triggering and healing, I heal allies based on that value, and also heal enemy on that value. So more less, Enemy can kill me, while my hits heal me, allies and him(enemy) in same quantity.
Only one way templock can kill enemy in pvp, is if he do not trigger life steal. And that is real experience from pvp, not like yours paper comparison without having real combat.
I wondering,, how templock become worser in mod 10 than it where before? In mod 10, due rework we received curse sinergy= less cursing/marking. We received Pillar of Power rework which is buff/debuff and dmg. Aura effects areas' got widen. So tell me how templock become worser than it where prior mod 10 huh? Performance increased in good way, yet you claim it become worser. That could happen only due one simple reason. You HAVEN'T played with templock, and all your claims as just based by theories.
AS for damnation. I can bet you played with that build only when Soul Puppet where bugged/glitched and due bad powers interactions where able to deal lot of dmg. In that time, there where lot of guys who did it.. But once Soul Puppet problem where fixed, they gave up on damnation. So I am 100% sure that u where just yet another one who did that.
It's not your concerns how many times I will run dungeons any dungeon, instead calculating how many times I will do dungeons look own stuffs. Don't think u are center of neverwinter. It's not your right to say what kind builds players must choose and which not.
Templock need rework. yes, and since u are least hellping one to get developers attention, neither having ideas how to rework( except DC's powers copy paste). So simply stop discouraging players pick this tree, stop talking about templock at all. It's not your concern who and how will play with templock, and which game content it will run.
And one of most crucial part of this post would be> Stop act as you are center of neverwinter online.. U are just yet another player. It's not like you have right to give order to players which classes/builds play and which ones quit.
Best advice for person like you would be> Don''t like, don't look. < In other words. don't stick nose in templocks business.
The class was top dps till mod 9, then it dropped off and got 2 nerfs in a row and all we have now is a more or less competetive fury tree concernig the striker role, but we are not at the top any more but I am glad the class got fixed. Till mod 9 the difference temp to fury was smaller. Till mod 9 there was no issue temptation healing the opposit team in PVP, never met that bug tbh, warlock was performing bad in PVP in a hole. A templock got high survivability due to eldrichs momentum and endless stamina, with some moments of stamina bug and some moments of onehits meeting an OP. The calss was a pain below endgear and had issues to kill other classes. Till mod 9 templock did maybe 1/3 less dps than fury, now it´s half of it. My templock was a viable striker and able to run the old dungeons as leader. I dealt same ammount of damage as some other striker classes did . That´s the point ! A drop of in overall damage and a bigger gap between both trees = worse dps in a hole, atm your templock is creeping in the lower depth in case you pop up paingiverchart. Things changed and templock fell off since mod 10, in dps as in the ability to be a viable leader/striker, none of the new content is comfortable to solve for this setup. By that you have now a bad striker with the same buffs other builds can run and doing better by that. I know lot´s of player in this thread and other threads tried to get this into your brain.
Actually I want to play the tree once again, but it is no choice atm. , not in PVE and by sure not in PVP. To start a discussion about this tree you need to have any clue about actual content and necessities outside 3 year old dungeons. You never did any competetive PVP following your silly comments and you never played your lock in any other dungeon than T1, T2 and maybe CN. So who is the peebrain telling everyone if or if not the tree/build can compete in the ACTUAL content? Show me an FBI run with your templock I want to see your performance At least that´s what I did running PVP and PVE, before mod 10 lauched, posting some vids as templock. I also praised the capstone, said to be dead that time, and all those dungeons where a solveable task for a templock, even tought an actual DC would have taken the speed to another limit. I guess that´s mod 8 running a strikt PVP setup, and by sure I hated that class posting those vids incl a templock PVP build https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aj-8_H2mKvQ
To any moderator outside, please delete all these posts, idk. This is from no benefit for anyone and will save the world from more useless walls of text about a tree in need of rework. If there will be a healthy discussion about this tree some day, I hope for reasonable player with some experience and sort of ideas, and I wish they will not be terrorized by a player that measures the class on his level running outdated dungeons alltime. Bloody you are an annoyance to any thread, congrats
no matter the path sw's were never meant to be top dps but a support class. so i can live with a gwf, cw or hr dealing more dmg than me.
I can smell your troll stink from a mile away.
From my experience and a practical standpoint, there is ONE reason and ONE reason only to take Templock-- heals. You can comfortably outheal any class in the game if you know what you're doing. Now, again, group healing is a appreciated but IN NO WAY sought out by high level groups. Healing is not desireable for anything after a T2 dungeon. Most people don't even need healing in T2 once they are low 3k. Sure it's helpful, but people DO NOT look for it. Outside that, all the buffs Temp offers after Dark Revelry are stupid. The only thing Temp gets is the ability to offer PotNH and Dark Revelry, whereas Fury would choose one or the other.
The best way to play Templock I've found is to just play it like a straight DPS character with PoP at the center of the build. Companions, encounters, enchants, artifacts, stats, everything should be basically the same as a Fury. Vampiric Embrace is a piece of HAMSTER power. Even Accursed Souls is underwhelming because the damage is awful and it takes 3 seconds to cast, in which time I can heal just as much with encounters and at-wills. BoVA, PoP, and AoH is the best rotation I have found, with Brood, Gates, and TC for dailies where appropriate. Temp and Fury are 90% the same in terms of building (no KF, no FB, different passives).
Anyway, my point is the Temp is basically a Fury that sacrafices ~20% damage, or whatever it may be, for the ability to heal. That's it. Temp buffs, mitigation, whatever are all essentially useless for group play. DR + PotNH is great to have, but it's just not enough. As many have pointed out, extra % of damage provided by DR is underwhelming, due to the nature of the meta revolving completely around BUFF and DEBUFF... neither of which Templock is significantly better at than Fury or even Damnation.
I am NOT hating. I'm being honest. I've been Temp for months. I've been a Templock advocate for a while. But it's important that I give my honest opinion. You won't get kicked from a group as a Templock for sure, but I guarentee no one will be looking for you either. Templock is extremely fun to play and I won't be swtitching anytime soon. But there's no point in pretending like all these issues don't exist. Every role is better filled by another class/build--except healing. That's a fact.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
That´s how I played my templock in the past, as a dps with supporter abilities and a pure striker setup. But the gap to fury got bigger since rework imo. Maybe an owlbear can compensate for this a bit, maybe a powerfocussed build is able to deal better results as treeclimber posted. But I have my doubts about powerbuild + owlbear, at least on single target and that´s what I would focus on. I can´t compete to a skilled CW´s or GWF´s AoE abilities.
I am curious about mod 11. The new weaponenchants are mixing the cards. Bile/lightning is BIS for CW I learned. Lightning got good results for warlock too, till they nerfed DT from proccing weapon enchants multiple times, no clue why they did so. It´s an encounter that deals small numbers, has a long CD and don´t let you cast anything else in between. The only way to maybe build arround lightning I guess...so it was wrecked, only proccing WE once. Someone posted that Bile is BIS for some other classes too, outdamaging vorp by far. Smokebomb procs weaponenchants too. If that´s correct, classes like GWF/TR with high power selfbuffs may be unreachable. Warlock seems to have issues with weaponenchant procs, so we stay with vorp/dread I understood. It would be sad somehow if warlock can´t benefit from that rework and drop further off, but I hope things will not escalate that much. Maybe there will be Bile/Lightning builds with owlbear, pop and stacking power, even that I don´t like to be dependant to a somehow bugged companion. I could not test stuff since there was not one Bile or Lightning on preview to get , all sold out
PS: just leared you can buy trans enchants for 1 copper at that merchant, lol
Couple days I spent in preview server, to check new master spellplague Dungeon, on top also have been in schietindebux so many times mentioned master assault on svardborg. And I found that dungeon is not so hard as I expected, and where dissapointment. and actually discouraged to even bother with to unlock that dungeon in live server.
Perhaps for you guys it's hard, but for me it where far far far from hard. Personally I hope than one day I we would have fight's which difficulity would match this fight in video.
There in that game, at that time when that boss where introduced, you could only pick 15 HP potions which never restore full your HP,. 5 feathers to recover dead player, 1 mass feater for 7 players who are near. And 5 tools to fix your gear which breaks after strong hit you receive. Not mentioned that game which is in that video, had not assistance mechanic as nwo had. There where no red burble/area which marks/indicate where enemy will land his attacks. You had to think, react by yourself, you fail dodge, then even if top end gear reduce incoming hit, it breaks after such impact. And after couple hits you are without armor, and one slap in that moment you are dead.
Why I mentioned that game here. Well, probably to show you how action mmorpg really do look like, and what's really hard fight is. After playing that game you will found that nwo don't even anything to offer which would be close that that hard fight. You learn how dodge, how use openings to get advantages and exploit for extra damage.
You guys play with more classic styled mmorpg gameplay(buff/gear depending) I play less depending on buffs. Thats major difference. So when you guys claim that assault of svardbord is hard, it's make me laught. There only require more brain activity, more players skills, rather brainlessly smashing keyboard.
Now in new master spellplague dungeon guys you notice that gameplay will change. So get ready.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I thought about speccing templock and give it a try, if I can find some brave heros to join (no timelimit for sure). Maybe I can prove myself wrong. Something like GF-templock-Hunter-CW - TR
So you went SVA and scipped FBI ? Interesting. Maybe a vid of templock as leaderclass in FBI would prove me wrong, so feel free to post it
I'll do my best to at least share some clips from Xbox next time I am able to. I won't be able to record the whole thing, but 30 second clips can be captured.
On another note, I'm looking at the Fey weapons as being great for Temp on paper. Anyone know how effective they are? As for weapon enchant I'm trying to switch out my Dread for a Feytouched but the difference in price is...staggering.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
I only tested on dummy Bilethorn and Lightning, no option for a warlock imo. Only thing to mention is Bilethorn that procs from Hand of blight 4 times per hit in melee and deals 45% of dps for this at will only. A GWF seems to benefit from Bilethorn far better, the damage somehow scales better, maybe due to buffed weapon damage. To me it looked like the revival of "Lolset insanity". I got a feytocuhed on live, but can´t say if it´s gonna be any worth in mod 11... my testing were too short. High power build + owlbear, like treesklimber said, may be the perfect build for a feytouched. Maybe someone else can help. I stick with dread and vorp, will be top on single target , and taht´s what most fights are made off. In case adds will show up it´s time for TT, so you can´t lose that way.
So you went SVA and scipped FBI ? Interesting. Maybe a vid of templock as leaderclass in FBI would prove me wrong, so feel free to post it
IF my laptop could handle game and recording without any noticible laging. Then I would be already done that. When I posted my build, I intended to make video how my templock performed, in all known dungeons. But due hardware limitation I keep this idea on hold.
Also because laptop is not extreme strong, is one of reasons why I still do play nwo. Because if I could run other new games on decent performance, I would be there instead here in nwo.
AS for SVA, well I went there unplanned. That day I where in preview server, tested weapon enchant changes. But unlike you, I didn't try impress training dummy with my dmg. I tested enchants performance In Heroic encounters. And locked which one gives actually benefits in gameplay. Not just ~3% dmg boost. I look for changes which you can notice in gameplay. So after doing some HE's in reworked mod 11 area. I received queue invite.. Some guys simply gathered players for content runs, I was there just to fill empty spot in queue group.
So thats how I went to mSVA, and as I wrote before.. It didn't impressed me, neither by visual, neither by difficulity.
But obviously you will still claim that I haven't been there or u will try point FBI and bla bla bla bla and other HAMSTER, which I simply ignore.
Unlike you, I don't go with option pick temp or DC. If you didn't know, you can pick both in party. You actually can take Temp, DC, OP, CW there too.
AS for lightning enchant,, well if you hitting only training dummy then obviously it show not the highest performance.. Also lightning is not best if your warlock use burst powers. Gate of hell, filling flames, fiery bolt, SS simply not the best combo. But, when Warlock is furry tree, and use Necrotic with DoT effect powers, all changes..
In Heroic encounter I use PoP, Hadar grasp and DT + Hellish rebuke powers, and daily power where Tyrannical Curse.
Now without daily power(TC), all alone PoP> hadar grasp> DT and you have lot of dmg for all enemies in your spot. Each time you hit, lightning hit other enemy which is close to him, and this hit jump up to 3 times. Now each DoT, and Creeping Death trigger Lightning strike. Not mentioned if you damage someone with Lightning, u triggering creeping death. :P Now with TC > hadar grasp> DT and when that encounter used, keep hitting enemies with hellish rebuke, you get to point that whole your screen is full of dmg indicators. And each hit = triggering life steal. So even with glasscanon furry I can go to HE and more less give middle finger to enemies. More are around me = more I stay alive. Also if there is no other enemies around primary target receive extra dmg.
In other words, lightning enchant + Dot + TC, and you have close effect as Tyrannical curse where before mod 10.
But, if you sw is build for burst, then it's no use.
Anyways,, changes can be done anytime, so read patch notes. At least time to time..
Anyways. It's not like I would had to convince you anything.
It's far from culmination. For me this thread is just having fun, to see how couple guys try "teach" me, convince me that templock so bad that we should give up on this build, and relay on broken DC's powers only.
And also I am kinda disappointed, both of you claiming that you don't hate Templocks, but none of you brought any ideas how would need to fix. Even Denvald brough any suggestions to how change. As for you two. Nothing.. So yeah, not only not trying write any suggestion how make templock more viable, you simlply discouraging anyone to play with it.
I can keep this show going, I don't mind, because I care less about you two.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
@bloodyspamer I hear you, I really do. I feel where you are coming from. Temp is decent. I can solo everything pre mod 10...but who cares? As many have suggested for future improvement, it's best to boost buffs/debuffs and make them more useful. I would advise against a damage increase as that is covered by Fury already; no need to muddy the paths.
Temp can already easily out damage DC, and it outheals every class if you play right. Ex, Tiamat with 10 4ks i came 4th in damage and 1st in heals by 7mil. Thing is, the 3rd dps was 50mil more than me, and i had 60mil. But that's not our role... the best solution would really be to make heals more useful at end game but to do that you would basically need enemies to apply a DoT effect always. It's a very hard question to answer sufficiently, since templock has essentially not evolved with the meta.
The whole temp tree needs a rework such that this formula occurs [{(buff/debuff))+ dps potential] ~ rivals DC}] Otherwise, without heals meaning much, temp is not sought after in a min/max sense
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
@bloodyspamer I hear you, I really do. I feel where you are coming from. Temp is decent. I can solo everything pre mod 10...but who cares? As many have suggested for future improvement, it's best to boost buffs/debuffs and make them more useful. I would advise against a damage increase as that is covered by Fury already; no need to muddy the paths.
Temp can already easily out damage DC, and it outheals every class if you play right. Ex, Tiamat with 10 4ks i came 4th in damage and 1st in heals by 7mil. Thing is, the 3rd dps was 50mil more than me, and i had 60mil. But that's not our role... the best solution would really be to make heals more useful at end game but to do that you would basically need enemies to apply a DoT effect always. It's a very hard question to answer sufficiently, since templock has essentially not evolved with the meta.
The whole temp tree needs a rework such that this formula occurs [{(buff/debuff))+ dps potential] ~ rivals DC}] Otherwise, without heals meaning much, temp is not sought after in a min/max sense
Hoo, Someone do heard me. Thats kinda new, or perhaps not. All because you play with templock, you see stuffs kinda different.
And yes, who cares if I do run x content or not.. Personally I have no desire neither intention to go in FBI or master Assault on svardborg in live server. It's not like I can't, but simply I have no intention go there, obtain relict gear, which will require restore, and for that you need go there again. And latter keep grinding voinblood to keep it's full dmg up. Also why bother with arti weapons if in the end of this months we get new module with new arti weapons? So more less I will skip FBI and mSvarborg, unless in alliance someone will look to fill spot in group. But nothing more. -----------------------------------
And yes I totally agree, no need enchant dmg output specifically for templocks. It's dmg boost should be come only in same quantity as everyone would get from his buffs which he share with others. In others words, templocks dmg should not be enchanted same as furry ones.
Now also I prefer that templock stay as field/aoe buff/debuff + heal supporter. So by buff debuff quality DC should remain slightly ahead. Not so much, but yet it should. Why? Because if templock or OP or any other class would offer similar effect, and if it would be areal as OP's/Templocks aura effects. It would kill any reason pick DC at all. Or if making templock as DC"s rip off, also would be worser option that anything, Because that would mean one of class would had to die. Now imagine, Templock with his healing + dc's buffs/debuffs and his higher dmg output.. It simply kill DC class. And thats is what I am not for.
----------------------
So we need damage mitigation effect, yes, Now what is similar effect? Instead buffing allies, why do not debuff enemies? Thats what Aura of despair does. But it's current effect is low. So as I wrote, it's effect value should be increased from 5% to 10%. And on top add extra feature. Perhaps add chance to add extra 5% damage reduction. Perhaps adding x% of DR boosting to allies. It's just example. But as you can see, even through some values changing it could be big thing. Now some feats I actually prefer to merge, and leave spot for other's new ones. For example Aura of Cruelty now add 5% life steal to everyone who are near templock. Which is way way way outdated. Also Soul breaker feat also not fitting current games situation. In past that feat perhaps where OK, now players restoring AP so fast, that this feat become irrelevant.
Anyways, if you have ideas how templock should/could be reworked @mrshabok then I would like to read about it..
Personally I would like to get at least 5 players who play as templocks in one thread. To gather ideas how feats should be changed, and make templock viable. But also not try kill other supporters within game. Not mentioned we need count that, not all players are over 4k GS, having legendary mounts or legendary companions with x3 maxed bonding runestones. Not all are in Guild who have stronghold's hall lv 20. Need to count low lv's players too. Thats why dropping high boosting carelessly is not an option. Also we need to count, that damnation and furry players will be able to pick some feats too.
Denval had started thread, called, The temptation/Support Warlock thread.. At first I was for changes, but he was intended to just making DC"s and paladins rip off. And I am for that.. I think templock should still do have own specific gameplay and way to support allies, and all changes should be done within tree feats changing only. Anything beyond feats changing = over all warlocks redesing.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I recently picked up playing a Templock and its has seemed worthwhile to run with. Here's been my experience so far.
New skirmish does not guarantee a healer. Thus, if you can heal AoE style, then there will be a higher rate of success because of this.
If healing isn't this "huge" faction in endgame, then why would it matter if you have DC, OP or SW for those minor healing times. Each class has an additional role (increasing DPS, buff/debuff or even DPS). These are non tanking roles in the end anyways. It really seems this is more of a group consistency issue rather than having the "IT" builds all in one group. There is nothing to say that you can't have a Templock and buff DC in the same group.
This build is not going to be everyone's cup of tea. There is no build that is everyone's cup of tea. That's why its possible to have so many unique builds. If you don't like a build, then move on. No one is forcing you to click on "POST COMMENT".
[Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (446273) Physical Damage to you with Wand Bash. [Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (514415) Physical Damage to you with Bash. [Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (521299) Physical Damage to you with Bash. [Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (555505) Physical Damage to you with Wand Sweep. [Combat (Self)] Orcus deals 64883 (648828) Physical Damage to you with Wand Bash.
4.2 DC, 2.6 mof, 3.6 ss thaum, 4k pally we chewed through CN in 11mins. Fast enough. This meta is all about buff/debuff and insert DPS here. I didn't even hit 1mil in heals. Why? No one took damage. That's why heals are largely uselsss in GOOD group composition. With the right buff/debuff everything just falls over in seconds.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
one thing I still find kinda interesting. You all talk a lot of endgame, but literally forgot that when it's not like you gona play endgame content right after creating new character... Now in mod 4, templocks where popular in same amount as furry due one reason. Templocks are less depended on curse as furry. So Temptation warlocks can go more AoE in most cases.
As for healing requirement, well, I also don't see really big importance of buffers either.
Yesterday I went to illusionist gambit skirmish via public queue, I where in party with GWF, Paladin, x2 Furry SW, and me as tempt HB.
here shows that guys if want can pull out high dmg boost even without DC's buffs.
So playing as supporter is just for own entertainment, don't think tempt, of DC's is now important. Sure if u pick all buffers in one group u hit gwf's power over 200k, or as one of friends assured that he so that GWF reached 300k power limit.
So as I wrote, don't put hope that if u pick supporter u will be important. neverwinter don't have class balance, game is build around certain class.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
GWFs are probably the best class in the game and also the most boring, by far. I play Templock because it's fun and for no other reason. My only point is that, for people worried about completing things much slower as temp, you can throw any class with decent DPS into a good buff group and blow through anything in minutes.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
GWFs are probably the best class in the game and also the most boring, by far. I play Templock because it's fun and for no other reason. My only point is that, for people worried about completing things much slower as temp, you can throw any class with decent DPS into a good buff group and blow through anything in minutes.
And I met not only GWF who all alone without any other players help manage to reach 100k power. Since current mod went live I met HR, TR, CW, OP, GF, even DC, and SW, who manage to hit 100k power all alone, without any help from any other classes. Thats mean they where alone, there where no buffer behind them. DC manage hit 100k power, I can accept that, so be. But other classes manage reach this high power barrier all alone is insine. Now add owlbear cub companion. Then u dealing x2 more dmg. There is no game content where players with these stats would have put any efforts at all.
One of funniest part if u pick Heal Paladin to use prism with these stats. Due HEALING WARMTH boon interaction + owlbear cub companion enemies/demons/monsters melts in second. I where in party with heal paladin who have yet only 50k power, and due boon and companion interaction he all alone cleared Cn dungeon without any efforts, he did 98% dmg. Now make group of players with these stats. Do you think there is game content which would give any decent challenge? Nop.
Not only GWF is broken, but all classes are overbuffed.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
u dont understand it xD its like talking to a stone
1. Temptationlock has no real buffs. The only feat buffing is Dark Revelery and u can take that as Fury too. 2. Its no problem for ppl to get the DC buffs what are u even talking about. even if it would be a problem id rather have area limited buffs then no buffs. 3. Well i dont know which parties u play with but in my parties dying isnt an issue 4. I can solo eCC on my Fury SW. what does that even have to do with our discussion? 5.I know u dont need a DC to finish the content. But why would i take a Templock over a DC when it takes atleast 2x or 3x the time to finish the dungeon. 6.Templock is no balanced supporter. its a close to useless supporter. U can use things like DT and PoP on a fury setup too and then u support and deal a fair amount of dmg. 7. unlike others u are only trying to defend a speck which is very bad and needs a complete rework. 8. u honestly ask why bother with dc? that just shows how little u know about other classes. maybe its cause DCs increase the groups dmg by more then 200%
This is more a testament to the brokeness of DCs as of today than anything else. And to the fact that healing doesn't matter anymore in the game. I agree that there are some horrible feats in the Temptation tree and that a rework should be done, but it's not that bad. A couple of days ago we run eToS with a relatively low iLvL party except for a pretty good DC (over 4k with all the bells and whistles, good friend of Sharpedge and Michela and very well aware of how a DC should be played). It took 12 minutes. He then changed to his Temptlock (3k-ish) and we did it again. It took 14 minutes. Longer? Yes. Two-three times longer? No. Maybe things in FBI would have been different and I agree that at the top end of this game the temptlock is definitely way behind a DC but for most casuals around, a temptation SW with an Owlbear Cub is a valuable member of a party and it's fun to play. The real issue is that without an Owlbear Cub things are really different....
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
This is more a testament to the brokeness of DCs as of today than anything else. And to the fact that healing doesn't matter anymore in the game. I agree that there are some horrible feats in the Temptation tree and that a rework should be done, but it's not that bad. A couple of days ago we run eToS with a relatively low iLvL party except for a pretty good DC (over 4k with all the bells and whistles, good friend of Sharpedge and Michela and very well aware of how a DC should be played). It took 12 minutes. He then changed to his Temptlock (3k-ish) and we did it again. It took 14 minutes. Longer? Yes. Two-three times longer? No. Maybe things in FBI would have been different and I agree that at the top end of this game the temptlock is definitely way behind a DC but for most casuals around, a temptation SW with an Owlbear Cub is a valuable member of a party and it's fun to play. The real issue is that without an Owlbear Cub things are really different....
It's not only DC broken. But majority of NWO community. Players relay on broken powers, relay on glitched power interaction. And yet keep asking devs to buff these classes. It's amuse me when players call dungeon run failure if they didn't clear it in couple minutes. Players here are spoiled of easy gameplay, easy wining. Here in nwo you put ~30% efforts and gaining 150% reward. And yet players complaining that is too hard here..
Templock feats also is good example how game changed. In past buffs had ~40% influence in fights. Thats mean 60% of remaining influence are split for gear, team work and players skills. Now Buffs influence fights is slightly higher, about 200% . Thats mean players skills are not required.
NWO need back to roots, where you had put efforts in order complete dungeon. And dependence on buffs where way lower.
Now also I want to clear that, there are guys who talks, aw in FBI and Assault of svadborg u got oneshot. This is epic crappy excuse for inability to use own head. Inability to see of incoming hit, dodge, flank enemy and hit him. In are content where you got oneshot too. So these 2 dungeons haven't brought anything new.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Comments
Same problem in PVE lacking in dps like 40%< Fury or more.
Since the leader role is not working for actual content, all this tree provides is slowing down every dungeonrun significant, sadly.
There is no templock mania, and there are not hater, there is a discussion about this tree for years now, pointing exactly on the inefficiency of this tree.
The deeper fall of templock lately was caused by
1. implementing FBI and SVA, where lot´s of mob just onehit without pretty strong buffs and mitigation abilities and
2. the rework in mod 10 buffed Creeping Death, now dealing far mor damage than before, increasing the gap between Temptation and Fury significant, damnation is in between.
If Temptation tree should be from any interest in the future, it needs either a boost in dps to be a viable strike or a significant boost in buffs/mitigation to be a viable leader (wich I would prefer). Otherwise noone will count on this tree and outside every guildrun it will be hard to get a step into endcontent
@bloodyspamer At last; I do not understand how you can judge about this tree in case you did not run any endcontent or run PVP for a considerable time, beside the fact that 2 weeks running with a DC is rediculessly short to have any clue about this class.
I have played with CW in mod 3, so does that make me smartest one in CW buildings, gameplay and etc? The answer is no.
IF I have question about something like damnation building, gameplay etc, I ask the one who play with damnation. If I have question about CW master of flames builds, I will ask guy who play with it. IF I want to hear info about gwf performance, I ask gwf.
AS for pvp, SB is more better there. Why? Simply due tactical reasons. Pillar of Power even if it would provide gazillion dps boost, and full incoming DMG negation, it will make templock easy mark. Outside PoP u become weak, Also It's easy to notice PoP circle. and only blind ones would not.
I don't know how about u, but SW is not ment go head2head fight with tanks.. And over all pvp without using dodging properly, without using obstacles to get advantage is not pvp at all. I have seen how guys pvp, facing each other in fight face2face, both eating incoming hits. Such fight is called gear/buff demonstration not pvp.
And to know for u, icewindale, dvarf valley open world pvp I do it time to time. EVen due bug which my templock heal enemies in same rates as allies, even fight is harder, yet still I can deal with other players. So pvp is even in this mod is not new for me..
You say templock lack dps compared to furry. < yea sure, Now perhaps by same way lets compare heal DC vs gwf dps?
Next, pvp is not 1vs5, neither it's duel 1vs1,. Supporting comes in many forms, healing, buffing/debuffing is not only ways. CC also can be consider as supporting, assisting also can be consider as supporting. Enough to make opening so that allies would get extra advantage in fight = supporting.
Luring player out of group to trap/ambush = supporting..
Seems you lack creativity in fights.. And this is big difference between me and you.
Leader role, is not only providing buffs, debuffs and healing. Leading is when you moderate field in favor to team.
One of simply example. Twin scorpions in Lostmouth dungeon. I lure one of scorpion away from team, while they deal with other one. Or simply keeping scorpion just in range from others, while I apply DoT based effects on scorpion which party fighting with..
There is no templock mania, and there are not hater, there is a discussion about this tree for years now, pointing exactly on the inefficiency of this tree.
The deeper fall of templock lately was caused by
1. implementing FBI and SVA, where lot´s of mob just onehit without pretty strong buffs and mitigation abilities and
2. the rework in mod 10 buffed Creeping Death, now dealing far mor damage than before, increasing the gap between Temptation and Fury significant, damnation is in between.
No templock haters mania u say.. Yeah sure.. Guys try convince don't play with temptation, give up on it's worthless etc/ . What does that sounds like?
It's like I would say: give up on dc, it's not worth, it's dps sucks. It's just not worth. Pick GWF.
Talking for year about templock? Seriously? Ghez, then search mechanic in forum lies. Before I posted my build after mod 10 sw's rework, I looked for latest templock builds, to see how it where. I checked not only warlock forum, discussions, pve/pvp forums too. There where no comments toward templocks for years. So I wonder where did u so talks for Years about templocks... ? When I started run dungeons, players didn't knew what the heck temptation warlock is, it where totally abandoned. So don't put such nonsense claims.
1) One shot in dungeon.. I have seen 4k GS played got one shotted in eTOS dungeon. Tough, high GS, high stats, yet one shot he dead, Why? Lot of Life steal, low Damage reduction from players side. Glass canons builds tend to die a lot.
By the way, u have wrote that end game players usually have enough survivability and no need healing and etc. Now seems they die from one shot.
2) Still don;t understand you.. We talk about furry or templock? Or I should start talk abut DC vs gwf in term of dps? or DC vs GF in term of tanking. Thats how your talks goes.
Temptation is not striker. Yet u suggest buff dps to be striker.. And next suggestion is simply convert tempt to DC.
The only way to keep templock viable is to make sure it have different approach than DC to achieve same or similar effect. Also remember that, furry and damnation will be able pick feats too. So if to strong feats would be introduced, furry or damantion would pick and make them overpowered. Which would end in hatred, and nerf requests.
As for endgame content.. It's funny, one guy once wrote me in game. Templock will not get in eDemo runs because he is just bad.. Yet, i did lot of eDemo run with casual players. No one complained, and actually some invited me in friendlist, and time to time invite me to join their alliance eDemo runs.
Some wrote that templock is just bad, not worth to pick in eDungeons. And ended same as eDemo.
So you claims that I will not get in x content run outside guild/alliance just amuse me.
At last; I do not understand how you can judge about this tree in case you did not run any endcontent or run PVP for a considerable time, beside the fact that 2 weeks running with a DC is rediculessly short to have any clue about this class.
Same question can be apply to u. How u can judge templock if u don't play with templock in current mod, and how can u judge without having more than 2 weeks gameplay time with it.
And with DC I played not 2 weeks. Perhaps u referred to yourself. I have played long enough.. Actually I have 2 DC's. One is in sharred account, and next one in same account where SW is, and it's due DC artifact.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
As for healing, In big fights, templock beating DC by default. Thats why only real competitor I consider Paladins.
AS for weakness and way to fix. Vampiric embrace need add feature, that encounter would be piercing by nature.
Even if 20k power, without 4k arp is kinda HAMSTER healing.. But once u hit higher arp, vampiric embrace start shine.
During mod 10 balancing time, When I build first (test) templock, I didn't used VE at all. By dmg numbers it HAMSTER. But through fights, I notice that it's not so bad at all. But it' depend on arp.
As for changes.. well. Aura of despair merge with aura of cruelity and making space for other possible ffeats.
Also My suggestion that HB's hellish rebuke would work same or similar to CW's master of flame: Scorching Burst
To more precise to have it's mechanic how apply DoT effect.
From furry side, it would boost dmg performance, because it would be possible use on multiple target or single one.
For templock due> hellish condemnation would be possible to apply for more than couple targets.
Aura of despair effect boost up from 5% to 10% + chance add extra 5%.
I have other ideas, however as I wrote before, I have no intention to making templock overpowered.
Also My ideas more focusing on areal supporting. So all feats effects should not exceed single target buff/debuff powers.
In other words, I have no intention to making tempt to strong and kill other supporters.. I want to make templock would be viable, having strong and weak sides, as each class do have.
But to do that, firstly need to have at least some templock population in game. Only then we could get developers attention.
Quiting templocks and waiting will not change anything. We waited for changes long enough.
I started Templocks resurrection, and hech I will not stop now.
Everything is based on priorities, and priorities depend on populations.
Not so long ago, CW's or gwf's one of powers got broken and players started complain. And glitch where fixed, fastly.
While Sw's problem lasted through whole module.
Also why templock didn't receive any changes.. well probably because it where abandoned, by players and developers.
Why they should dev's spent any time for tempt if no players use it? Simply there is no reason and they don't do it.
Also less players complain directly to them, or other forums = less attention = lesser priority.
Also Like I wrote, I don't claim that Templock is uber supporter. I just say it's not worthelss, yet require reworking.
The biggest problem where @etelgrin u posted video here in warlocks forum. IF u would posted in preview, showing recorded performance how it heal, buff and how do stats interact and ect to developers. It would be other thing, because developers more time spent in preview than in other forum parts. They do visit other forums, but warlocks is kinda least visited one, perhaps they do come here once per year.
Any videos, threads where someone say, temptation HAMSTER, bad, worthless = discourage players even try play with temp builds. = reduce chance to get developers attention = smaller priority = higher chance templocks got abandoned(again).
It's so simply, if we try kill temptlocks all alone, then developers had do nothing, just ignore this tree.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
@bloodyspamer, You theorize a lot but do no PVP nor actual content.
I respecced to templock in mod 10 for a short period, to realize in short time that it is far worse than both other trees atm. I also run damnation in mod 10 and I also run damnation in mod 6 and 8.
Run your templock 4ever, going eLoL, VT or MC idk. Everyone may chose whatever he wants to run.
If someone tells me he has no issues by running temptation, sure I also never had issues running it in T1 or T2, even CN, have fun doing so. You will have issues running FBI in case that fkn turtle is not going down because you lack in dps/buffs and have to face 14 stacks of Slam and die all time because the leader can´t protect the party against those onehits she dishes out every 10 seconds.
Warlocks leaderrole needs a rework, otherwise that tree has a fun aspect...lot´s of green numbers.
Alright, even I like to have fun here by trolling you here. It's time for explanation couple serious stuffs..
1) I play with templock, And I don't give a HAMSTER if any random 1diots try convince me to give up on my character because he don't like it.
2) it's not your buisness/concerns if I clear dungeon, flail it, do it quick or slow, died lot of time or have't at all. It's not your concern what power sets I use, how much I heal and etc.
You don't like Templock, Fine, Don't pick in your party.
3) there are not so many templocks in game. so it's not like in every party will be templock. And since u hate them. u will not pick in party. Players will decide to keep templock or give up on it. Not because you Ordering to do so.
4) u are not giving orders to players which supporters to pick for dungeon runs. It's their own problem. I don't think that u would do so called end game dungeons with random players.. 80%+++ time u will do within own alliance/friends parties.
So templock hatters stop this nonsense HAMSTER about quiting templock tree.
Like u have done lot of pvp with temptation. I wrote why with templock is problem go in pvp.. Due bug, which heal allies and enemies in same time.
Since your brain performance is low I will try explain.
I hit enemy, > I deal lets say 5k dmg. Due life steal triggering and healing, I heal allies based on that value, and also heal enemy on that value. So more less, Enemy can kill me, while my hits heal me, allies and him(enemy) in same quantity.
Only one way templock can kill enemy in pvp, is if he do not trigger life steal. And that is real experience from pvp, not like yours paper comparison without having real combat.
I wondering,, how templock become worser in mod 10 than it where before? In mod 10, due rework we received curse sinergy= less cursing/marking.
We received Pillar of Power rework which is buff/debuff and dmg. Aura effects areas' got widen.
So tell me how templock become worser than it where prior mod 10 huh? Performance increased in good way, yet you claim it become worser. That could happen only due one simple reason. You HAVEN'T played with templock, and all your claims as just based by theories.
AS for damnation. I can bet you played with that build only when Soul Puppet where bugged/glitched and due bad powers interactions where able to deal lot of dmg. In that time, there where lot of guys who did it.. But once Soul Puppet problem where fixed, they gave up on damnation.
So I am 100% sure that u where just yet another one who did that.
It's not your concerns how many times I will run dungeons any dungeon, instead calculating how many times I will do dungeons look own stuffs. Don't think u are center of neverwinter. It's not your right to say what kind builds players must choose and which not.
Templock need rework. yes, and since u are least hellping one to get developers attention, neither having ideas how to rework( except DC's powers copy paste). So simply stop discouraging players pick this tree, stop talking about templock at all. It's not your concern who and how will play with templock, and which game content it will run.
And one of most crucial part of this post would be> Stop act as you are center of neverwinter online.. U are just yet another player. It's not like you have right to give order to players which classes/builds play and which ones quit.
Best advice for person like you would be> Don''t like, don't look. < In other words. don't stick nose in templocks business.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
now, i don't know what has happened since then but i did a respec on my alt sw to temp last week and tried out a dungeon... worst decision ever
Till mod 9 templock did maybe 1/3 less dps than fury, now it´s half of it. My templock was a viable striker and able to run the old dungeons as leader. I dealt same ammount of damage as some other striker classes did . That´s the point !
A drop of in overall damage and a bigger gap between both trees = worse dps in a hole, atm your templock is creeping in the lower depth in case you pop up paingiverchart. Things changed and templock fell off since mod 10, in dps as in the ability to be a viable leader/striker, none of the new content is comfortable to solve for this setup.
By that you have now a bad striker with the same buffs other builds can run and doing better by that. I know lot´s of player in this thread and other threads tried to get this into your brain.
Actually I want to play the tree once again, but it is no choice atm. , not in PVE and by sure not in PVP.
To start a discussion about this tree you need to have any clue about actual content and necessities outside 3 year old dungeons.
You never did any competetive PVP following your silly comments and you never played your lock in any other dungeon than T1, T2 and maybe CN.
So who is the peebrain telling everyone if or if not the tree/build can compete in the ACTUAL content?
Show me an FBI run with your templock I want to see your performance
At least that´s what I did running PVP and PVE, before mod 10 lauched, posting some vids as templock. I also praised the capstone, said to be dead that time, and all those dungeons where a solveable task for a templock, even tought an actual DC would have taken the speed to another limit.
I guess that´s mod 8 running a strikt PVP setup, and by sure I hated that class posting those vids incl a templock PVP build
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aj-8_H2mKvQ
To any moderator outside, please delete all these posts, idk. This is from no benefit for anyone and will save the world from more useless walls of text about a tree in need of rework. If there will be a healthy discussion about this tree some day, I hope for reasonable player with some experience and sort of ideas, and I wish they will not be terrorized by a player that measures the class on his level running outdated dungeons alltime. Bloody you are an annoyance to any thread, congrats
From my experience and a practical standpoint, there is ONE reason and ONE reason only to take Templock-- heals. You can comfortably outheal any class in the game if you know what you're doing. Now, again, group healing is a appreciated but IN NO WAY sought out by high level groups. Healing is not desireable for anything after a T2 dungeon. Most people don't even need healing in T2 once they are low 3k. Sure it's helpful, but people DO NOT look for it. Outside that, all the buffs Temp offers after Dark Revelry are stupid. The only thing Temp gets is the ability to offer PotNH and Dark Revelry, whereas Fury would choose one or the other.
The best way to play Templock I've found is to just play it like a straight DPS character with PoP at the center of the build. Companions, encounters, enchants, artifacts, stats, everything should be basically the same as a Fury. Vampiric Embrace is a piece of HAMSTER power. Even Accursed Souls is underwhelming because the damage is awful and it takes 3 seconds to cast, in which time I can heal just as much with encounters and at-wills. BoVA, PoP, and AoH is the best rotation I have found, with Brood, Gates, and TC for dailies where appropriate. Temp and Fury are 90% the same in terms of building (no KF, no FB, different passives).
Anyway, my point is the Temp is basically a Fury that sacrafices ~20% damage, or whatever it may be, for the ability to heal. That's it. Temp buffs, mitigation, whatever are all essentially useless for group play. DR + PotNH is great to have, but it's just not enough. As many have pointed out, extra % of damage provided by DR is underwhelming, due to the nature of the meta revolving completely around BUFF and DEBUFF... neither of which Templock is significantly better at than Fury or even Damnation.
I am NOT hating. I'm being honest. I've been Temp for months. I've been a Templock advocate for a while. But it's important that I give my honest opinion. You won't get kicked from a group as a Templock for sure, but I guarentee no one will be looking for you either. Templock is extremely fun to play and I won't be swtitching anytime soon. But there's no point in pretending like all these issues don't exist. Every role is better filled by another class/build--except healing. That's a fact.
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
Maybe an owlbear can compensate for this a bit, maybe a powerfocussed build is able to deal better results as treeclimber posted. But I have my doubts about powerbuild + owlbear, at least on single target and that´s what I would focus on.
I can´t compete to a skilled CW´s or GWF´s AoE abilities.
I am curious about mod 11. The new weaponenchants are mixing the cards. Bile/lightning is BIS for CW I learned.
Lightning got good results for warlock too, till they nerfed DT from proccing weapon enchants multiple times, no clue why they did so. It´s an encounter that deals small numbers, has a long CD and don´t let you cast anything else in between. The only way to maybe build arround lightning I guess...so it was wrecked, only proccing WE once.
Someone posted that Bile is BIS for some other classes too, outdamaging vorp by far. Smokebomb procs weaponenchants too.
If that´s correct, classes like GWF/TR with high power selfbuffs may be unreachable.
Warlock seems to have issues with weaponenchant procs, so we stay with vorp/dread I understood.
It would be sad somehow if warlock can´t benefit from that rework and drop further off, but I hope things will not escalate that much.
Maybe there will be Bile/Lightning builds with owlbear, pop and stacking power, even that I don´t like to be dependant to a somehow bugged companion. I could not test stuff since there was not one Bile or Lightning on preview to get , all sold out
PS: just leared you can buy trans enchants for 1 copper at that merchant, lol
Couple days I spent in preview server, to check new master spellplague Dungeon, on top also have been in schietindebux so many times mentioned master assault on svardborg. And I found that dungeon is not so hard as I expected, and where dissapointment. and actually discouraged to even bother with to unlock that dungeon in live server.
Perhaps for you guys it's hard, but for me it where far far far from hard. Personally I hope than one day I we would have fight's which difficulity would match this fight in video.
There in that game, at that time when that boss where introduced, you could only pick 15 HP potions which never restore full your HP,. 5 feathers to recover dead player, 1 mass feater for 7 players who are near. And 5 tools to fix your gear which breaks after strong hit you receive.
Not mentioned that game which is in that video, had not assistance mechanic as nwo had. There where no red burble/area which marks/indicate where enemy will land his attacks. You had to think, react by yourself, you fail dodge, then even if top end gear reduce incoming hit, it breaks after such impact. And after couple hits you are without armor, and one slap in that moment you are dead.
Why I mentioned that game here. Well, probably to show you how action mmorpg really do look like, and what's really hard fight is.
After playing that game you will found that nwo don't even anything to offer which would be close that that hard fight.
You learn how dodge, how use openings to get advantages and exploit for extra damage.
You guys play with more classic styled mmorpg gameplay(buff/gear depending)
I play less depending on buffs. Thats major difference. So when you guys claim that assault of svardbord is hard, it's make me laught. There only require more brain activity, more players skills, rather brainlessly smashing keyboard.
Now in new master spellplague dungeon guys you notice that gameplay will change. So get ready.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Maybe a vid of templock as leaderclass in FBI would prove me wrong, so feel free to post it
Something like GF-templock-Hunter-CW - TR
On another note, I'm looking at the Fey weapons as being great for Temp on paper. Anyone know how effective they are? As for weapon enchant I'm trying to switch out my Dread for a Feytouched but the difference in price is...staggering.
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
A GWF seems to benefit from Bilethorn far better, the damage somehow scales better, maybe due to buffed weapon damage. To me it looked like the revival of "Lolset insanity".
I got a feytocuhed on live, but can´t say if it´s gonna be any worth in mod 11... my testing were too short.
High power build + owlbear, like treesklimber said, may be the perfect build for a feytouched. Maybe someone else can help.
I stick with dread and vorp, will be top on single target , and taht´s what most fights are made off. In case adds will show up it´s time for TT, so you can´t lose that way.
Also because laptop is not extreme strong, is one of reasons why I still do play nwo. Because if I could run other new games on decent performance, I would be there instead here in nwo.
AS for SVA, well I went there unplanned.
That day I where in preview server, tested weapon enchant changes. But unlike you, I didn't try impress training dummy with my dmg. I tested enchants performance In Heroic encounters. And locked which one gives actually benefits in gameplay. Not just ~3% dmg boost. I look for changes which you can notice in gameplay.
So after doing some HE's in reworked mod 11 area.
I received queue invite.. Some guys simply gathered players for content runs, I was there just to fill empty spot in queue group.
So thats how I went to mSVA, and as I wrote before.. It didn't impressed me, neither by visual, neither by difficulity.
But obviously you will still claim that I haven't been there or u will try point FBI and bla bla bla bla and other HAMSTER, which I simply ignore.
Unlike you, I don't go with option pick temp or DC. If you didn't know, you can pick both in party. You actually can take Temp, DC, OP, CW there too.
AS for lightning enchant,, well if you hitting only training dummy then obviously it show not the highest performance..
Also lightning is not best if your warlock use burst powers. Gate of hell, filling flames, fiery bolt, SS simply not the best combo.
But, when Warlock is furry tree, and use Necrotic with DoT effect powers, all changes..
In Heroic encounter I use PoP, Hadar grasp and DT + Hellish rebuke powers, and daily power where Tyrannical Curse.
Now without daily power(TC), all alone PoP> hadar grasp> DT and you have lot of dmg for all enemies in your spot.
Each time you hit, lightning hit other enemy which is close to him, and this hit jump up to 3 times.
Now each DoT, and Creeping Death trigger Lightning strike. Not mentioned if you damage someone with Lightning, u triggering creeping death. :P
Now with TC > hadar grasp> DT and when that encounter used, keep hitting enemies with hellish rebuke, you get to point that whole your screen is full of dmg indicators. And each hit = triggering life steal.
So even with glasscanon furry I can go to HE and more less give middle finger to enemies. More are around me = more I stay alive. Also if there is no other enemies around primary target receive extra dmg.
In other words, lightning enchant + Dot + TC, and you have close effect as Tyrannical curse where before mod 10.
But, if you sw is build for burst, then it's no use.
Anyways,, changes can be done anytime, so read patch notes. At least time to time..
Anyways. It's not like I would had to convince you anything. It's far from culmination. For me this thread is just having fun, to see how couple guys try "teach" me, convince me that templock so bad that we should give up on this build, and relay on broken DC's powers only.
And also I am kinda disappointed, both of you claiming that you don't hate Templocks, but none of you brought any ideas how would need to fix. Even Denvald brough any suggestions to how change. As for you two. Nothing.. So yeah, not only not trying write any suggestion how make templock more viable, you simlply discouraging anyone to play with it.
I can keep this show going, I don't mind, because I care less about you two.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Temp can already easily out damage DC, and it outheals every class if you play right. Ex, Tiamat with 10 4ks i came 4th in damage and 1st in heals by 7mil. Thing is, the 3rd dps was 50mil more than me, and i had 60mil. But that's not our role... the best solution would really be to make heals more useful at end game but to do that you would basically need enemies to apply a DoT effect always. It's a very hard question to answer sufficiently, since templock has essentially not evolved with the meta.
The whole temp tree needs a rework such that this formula occurs [{(buff/debuff))+ dps potential] ~ rivals DC}] Otherwise, without heals meaning much, temp is not sought after in a min/max sense
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
And yes, who cares if I do run x content or not.. Personally I have no desire neither intention to go in FBI or master Assault on svardborg in live server. It's not like I can't, but simply I have no intention go there, obtain relict gear, which will require restore, and for that you need go there again. And latter keep grinding voinblood to keep it's full dmg up. Also why bother with arti weapons if in the end of this months we get new module with new arti weapons?
So more less I will skip FBI and mSvarborg, unless in alliance someone will look to fill spot in group. But nothing more.
-----------------------------------
And yes I totally agree, no need enchant dmg output specifically for templocks.
It's dmg boost should be come only in same quantity as everyone would get from his buffs which he share with others. In others words, templocks dmg should not be enchanted same as furry ones.
Now also I prefer that templock stay as field/aoe buff/debuff + heal supporter. So by buff debuff quality DC should remain slightly ahead. Not so much, but yet it should. Why? Because if templock or OP or any other class would offer similar effect, and if it would be areal as OP's/Templocks aura effects. It would kill any reason pick DC at all.
Or if making templock as DC"s rip off, also would be worser option that anything, Because that would mean one of class would had to die. Now imagine, Templock with his healing + dc's buffs/debuffs and his higher dmg output.. It simply kill DC class. And thats is what I am not for.
----------------------
So we need damage mitigation effect, yes, Now what is similar effect? Instead buffing allies, why do not debuff enemies? Thats what Aura of despair does. But it's current effect is low. So as I wrote, it's effect value should be increased from 5% to 10%. And on top add extra feature. Perhaps add chance to add extra 5% damage reduction. Perhaps adding x% of DR boosting to allies. It's just example.
But as you can see, even through some values changing it could be big thing.
Now some feats I actually prefer to merge, and leave spot for other's new ones.
For example Aura of Cruelty now add 5% life steal to everyone who are near templock. Which is way way way outdated. Also Soul breaker feat also not fitting current games situation. In past that feat perhaps where OK, now players restoring AP so fast, that this feat become irrelevant.
Anyways, if you have ideas how templock should/could be reworked @mrshabok then I would like to read about it..
Personally I would like to get at least 5 players who play as templocks in one thread. To gather ideas how feats should be changed, and make templock viable. But also not try kill other supporters within game.
Not mentioned we need count that, not all players are over 4k GS, having legendary mounts or legendary companions with x3 maxed bonding runestones. Not all are in Guild who have stronghold's hall lv 20. Need to count low lv's players too. Thats why dropping high boosting carelessly is not an option. Also we need to count, that damnation and furry players will be able to pick some feats too.
Denval had started thread, called, The temptation/Support Warlock thread.. At first I was for changes, but he was intended to just making DC"s and paladins rip off. And I am for that..
I think templock should still do have own specific gameplay and way to support allies, and all changes should be done within tree feats changing only. Anything beyond feats changing = over all warlocks redesing.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
New skirmish does not guarantee a healer. Thus, if you can heal AoE style, then there will be a higher rate of success because of this.
If healing isn't this "huge" faction in endgame, then why would it matter if you have DC, OP or SW for those minor healing times. Each class has an additional role (increasing DPS, buff/debuff or even DPS). These are non tanking roles in the end anyways. It really seems this is more of a group consistency issue rather than having the "IT" builds all in one group. There is nothing to say that you can't have a Templock and buff DC in the same group.
This build is not going to be everyone's cup of tea. There is no build that is everyone's cup of tea. That's why its possible to have so many unique builds. If you don't like a build, then move on. No one is forcing you to click on "POST COMMENT".
Check out the Shadowknight Build for OP Protection here
[Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (446273) Physical Damage to you with Wand Bash.
[Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (514415) Physical Damage to you with Bash.
[Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (521299) Physical Damage to you with Bash.
[Combat (Self)] Orcus gives 0 (555505) Physical Damage to you with Wand Sweep.
[Combat (Self)] Orcus deals 64883 (648828) Physical Damage to you with Wand Bash.
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
Now in mod 4, templocks where popular in same amount as furry due one reason. Templocks are less depended on curse as furry.
So Temptation warlocks can go more AoE in most cases.
As for healing requirement, well, I also don't see really big importance of buffers either.
Yesterday I went to illusionist gambit skirmish via public queue,
I where in party with GWF, Paladin, x2 Furry SW, and me as tempt HB.
here shows that guys if want can pull out high dmg boost even without DC's buffs.
So playing as supporter is just for own entertainment, don't think tempt, of DC's is now important.
Sure if u pick all buffers in one group u hit gwf's power over 200k, or as one of friends assured that he so that GWF reached 300k power limit.
So as I wrote, don't put hope that if u pick supporter u will be important. neverwinter don't have class balance, game is build around certain class.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
DC manage hit 100k power, I can accept that, so be. But other classes manage reach this high power barrier all alone is insine.
Now add owlbear cub companion. Then u dealing x2 more dmg.
There is no game content where players with these stats would have put any efforts at all.
One of funniest part if u pick Heal Paladin to use prism with these stats. Due HEALING WARMTH boon interaction + owlbear cub companion enemies/demons/monsters melts in second.
I where in party with heal paladin who have yet only 50k power, and due boon and companion interaction he all alone cleared Cn dungeon without any efforts, he did 98% dmg.
Now make group of players with these stats. Do you think there is game content which would give any decent challenge? Nop.
Not only GWF is broken, but all classes are overbuffed.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I agree that there are some horrible feats in the Temptation tree and that a rework should be done, but it's not that bad.
A couple of days ago we run eToS with a relatively low iLvL party except for a pretty good DC (over 4k with all the bells and whistles, good friend of Sharpedge and Michela and very well aware of how a DC should be played). It took 12 minutes.
He then changed to his Temptlock (3k-ish) and we did it again. It took 14 minutes. Longer? Yes. Two-three times longer? No.
Maybe things in FBI would have been different and I agree that at the top end of this game the temptlock is definitely way behind a DC but for most casuals around, a temptation SW with an Owlbear Cub is a valuable member of a party and it's fun to play. The real issue is that without an Owlbear Cub things are really different....
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Templock feats also is good example how game changed. In past buffs had ~40% influence in fights. Thats mean 60% of remaining influence are split for gear, team work and players skills.
Now Buffs influence fights is slightly higher, about 200% . Thats mean players skills are not required.
NWO need back to roots, where you had put efforts in order complete dungeon. And dependence on buffs where way lower.
Now also I want to clear that, there are guys who talks, aw in FBI and Assault of svadborg u got oneshot.
This is epic crappy excuse for inability to use own head. Inability to see of incoming hit, dodge, flank enemy and hit him.
In are content where you got oneshot too. So these 2 dungeons haven't brought anything new.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================