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Bonding being seen as a must?

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  • nathan#8975 nathan Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    I don't play pop on this game and it's so bad that I forget most people do. So no, it doesn't cross my mind unless they have pvp gear equipped. Which is usually followed by an eye roll and then a rush of sympathy.
  • tornnomartornnomar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 388 Arc User
    Ugh, I held off on using Bondings until my eyes bled....

    But your OP question is: Bonding being seen as a must?
    Nope, they are not. Your free to play as you want.

    Just keep the fact that they are expected in the back of your mind for when you do catch slack for not having them.
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  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    micky1p00 said:

    We all know bonding will get nerfed at some point. So ?
    Stop playing ? Everything will be come obsolete at some point, something better will come or a nerf or a change or whatever....

    It's not even realistic to assume that they're going to nerf them to the point they're obsolete. They're just about to release another T3 dungeon balanced for players with bonding runestones. If there's a significant nerf to bonding runestones incoming, it's not going to be for a long time given the way they're balancing dungeons currently. I mean ffs we've only gotten epic versions of two of the dungeons they removed. What on Earth makes anyone think they're going to throw a wrench into their currently balance scheme by nerfing bonding runestones into oblivion? People have been complaining about the key change but a significant nerf to bonding runestones would be the last straw for a lot of people, especially if it meant hour long FBIs/SPC.

    ... read the below excerpt from his post, clearly he did not expect his team to "watch paint dry" for hours so he could have some sort of moment of glory. Your post is riddled with false assumptions about both his actions and his personality just like your others. A lot of bonding users are indeed HAMSTER to people who don't have bonding stones and will exclude them from groups. I do think he overgeneralized it when he said the majority of bonding users were like this, but other than that this is a valid problem and a good case study.

    That was for Orcus, I was referring to when he said he was solo'ing the first boss.

    I mean ffs it shouldn't even be a question with the party composition they have. They've got a DPS spot filled by a GWF. The second the other DPS went down they should've reset because they're wasting time having one DPS go at it with the support classes.

    For fast lvl ups and easy wins?



    There are situations where augments are better than non augments.



    At least for tricksters that can permanent stealth.

    Yeah, in DF when you have a full stronghold and companions are making the dragons immune to damage from having too many toons/companions in the dragon areas. Or if you're solo'ing a dungeon there are parts where your companion would die too many times to bother using anything but an augment. But in a 5 man dungeon with a full party? Nope. Never.
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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    urabask said:

    micky1p00 said:

    We all know bonding will get nerfed at some point. So ?
    Stop playing ? Everything will be come obsolete at some point, something better will come or a nerf or a change or whatever....

    It's not even realistic to assume that they're going to nerf them to the point they're obsolete. They're just about to release another T3 dungeon balanced for players with bonding runestones. If there's a significant nerf to bonding runestones incoming, it's not going to be for a long time given the way they're balancing dungeons currently. I mean ffs we've only gotten epic versions of two of the dungeons they removed. What on Earth makes anyone think they're going to throw a wrench into their currently balance scheme by nerfing bonding runestones into oblivion? People have been complaining about the key change but a significant nerf to bonding runestones would be the last straw for a lot of people, especially if it meant hour long FBIs/SPC.
    At some point is not equal now or soon, or next week. And if you don't think that at some point in the game life bondings will not be replaced by something better, or nerfed or changed, like other things in the game, you are not being realistic.
    And it is how it should be. A static, stagnated game is a dead game.
    urabask said:


    Yeah, in DF when you have a full stronghold and companions are making the dragons immune to damage from having too many toons/companions in the dragon areas. Or if you're solo'ing a dungeon there are parts where your companion would die too many times to bother using anything but an augment. But in a 5 man dungeon with a full party? Nope. Never.

    Companions do not count for DF. It was at the SH mod preview and was fixed later. So not there.
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    micky1p00 said:

    At some point is not equal now or soon, or next week. And if you don't think that at some point in the game life bondings will not be replaced by something better, or nerfed or changed, like other things in the game, you are not being realistic.
    And it is how it should be. A static, stagnated game is a dead game.

    Eh. It's basically like expecting them to raise the level cap. Sure, they probably will. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.
    micky1p00 said:

    Companions do not count for DF. It was at the SH mod preview and was fixed later. So not there.

    That bug definitely hit live. Maybe at some point they fixed it but it was definitely an issue while TUC/THC were still grinding DFs.
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  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,104 Arc User

    this game is full of kids

    Or adults who are worse than kids...
    yep, guilty as charged!
  • rhymenoiserhymenoise Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I really hate when people are build jerks.

    If your build works for you and you meet the requirements for the dungeon/run then there's nothing to complain about.
    I find the people who complain about augments vs bonding, etc are the same people who will complain when you're not using the current meta build and don't magically have the best posible gear and perfect enchants.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    It's the same issue in first person shooter games... someone dies.. then tries to tell you how to play.... the game needs an auto mute function when you are dead...
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  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User

    I really hate when people are build jerks.

    I approve of the phrase "build jerks"

    It works both ways ofc. Max-performance players belittling and whining about casuals who they don't think are working hard enough to aspire to be better AND the other way round with more laid back (whether by choice or necessity) players ridiculing BiS elitist perfectionism that they believe hard-core players stand for.

    Better balance in terms of the utility value of using augments vs bonds is always welcome, but that wont 'fix' people - there will always be optimal builds for certain types of (new) content and people who are willing to work towards those builds and streamlining the content. Luckily the payer base is still big enough for people sharing similar values to flock together in guilds.

    But just like in real life - you have the opportunity to look for and be in the company of people with similar aspirations. Which is why it seems to me that most of the really explicit jerkness (both ways) is more apparent here on the forums rather than in-game (seeing lfm 4k+ calls in your chat feed is hardly the same as someone quoting you to call you an elitist or an ignorant)
  • stevedudemanstevedudeman Member Posts: 129 Arc User


    Yeah you're going to be waiting for a while. No matter what they do to bonding runestones they'll remain better than augments. They'd have to re-balance all the content from the past four mods to actually work without bondings.

    Plus, remember back before bondings? If you had an actual pet, people would give you grief for not having an augment. Now, Bondings make most pets a viable option again....Which is nice.
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    Don't really care that bondings are better and more expensive than augments. People still have the right to make a choice.
  • sirjimbofrancissirjimbofrancis Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Play the build and style that you enjoy the most. There are always going to be jerks, try not to let them take up residence in your head. And, know that most players out there, even bonding users, aren't jerks.
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  • kisakeekisakee Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    Complaining, complaining never changes.

    These bondings are a total desaster for the whole game, splitting the community in half.. No one ever needed them, they're just some money makers from Cryptic. And no one will ever need them cause with some training you're able to manage every content.

    And complaining about non-bonding users is just stupid HAMSTER for brains. No one ever cared my 4,2k TR is using an ioun stone, no one ever cared i'm using a lightning WE, no one ever cared i'm not ever an executioner but a scoundrel. You know why? Cause i know how to play, i know how to avoid bad red circles, i know how to debuff enemies and even boss mobs AND i'm able to make some serious damage. My ioun stone got 3x R12 bondings (just for more power) and i never ever will switch over to a free running, mobs pulling, always dying and inconsistent buffs giving stupid AI which almost always ruins the plan. Yes, we have plans in Dungeons. You know, back in first modules? Tank goes first? We're living this since today and we can manage CN in 20-25 minutes with looting most of treasure chests and other stuff. Yes, we can.

    Screw bondings. Screw windbags who assume them.
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  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    null
    not using a bonding stone is not like choosing to not use a weapon enchantment in a slot and keeping the slot open and empty.

    my augment is a companion, a non augment is a companion.. therefore i am using a companion.

    my augment has bonding stones on it, but so what if it doesn't.

    like the person above me stated. I use my augment in times I don't want massive aggro, which is always!
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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    null

    not using a bonding stone is not like choosing to not use a weapon enchantment in a slot and keeping the slot open and empty.

    my augment is a companion, a non augment is a companion.. therefore i am using a companion.

    my augment has bonding stones on it, but so what if it doesn't.
    like the person above me stated. I use my augment in times I don't want massive aggro, which is always!

    No, it's like slotting lesser Brilliant Energy enchantment instead of t.vorpal for TR. Both weapon enchantments, both take the same slot.....
    Please lets not do BS rhetoric, and not insult people intelligence.

    Also with all the respect with people saying everyone allowed whatever they want. Ofcourse everyone can.
    But please keep in mind why a lot of people laugh at pugs (The random Q verity) and why everyone recommend to join channels / guilds and etc.... In large part It's the random builds, the random gear, and total lack of effectiveness (besides the great communication ofc).

    1. Bondings are among the best value per 'effectiveness' today. You can choose to use them, can't choose not to, but when you have bondings and and good companion gear, using an augment with bondings and not summoned companions is just.. well, throwing AD to the wind.
    As I've said earlier, I don't understand nor agree with these "Be different for the sake of difference" things. Gimping yourself just for the principle of it is just being pigheaded. Whom you punish for not using the bondings you have ? The devs for nerfing earlier builds you had? I'm sure they don't care.
    You have something, use it, enjoy it.

    2. TR -> What aggro ? There is nothing in CN that can't be smoked or killed or stealthed out, more so they don't aggro the sleeping zombies. And this is irrelevant to bosses, a boss is not something 'spare' your augment will save you from aggroing to your group....


    PS. I know many people with more unique builds, but in those cases they know that wont at the same dps / control or whatever level as the top builds. And take the good and bad that comes with it. One of it is that people will make suggestions from time to time.
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    +1

    I may like to drive a 67 mustang convertible, but will still lose a race to a Ferrari. To each his own, but in no way shape or form do augments have any advantage to a well selected bonding echanted companion. Peeps that have r12 bondings on augments also make very little sense to me. I guess I could put that Ferrari engine in my old mustang....but it still would get it's hamster transmission blown to all nine hells.
  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    if you've already decided to stick with the augment (whether it be out of spite or not) then... i mean...what else are you going to do with them if you happen to have them and their not a complete turn-off numbers-wise :D
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I am extremely effective with my build....

    Tested and proven many times over..

    Assume what you want..

    It's you who insults non bonding users intelligence levels.

    About cars...

    Doesn't matter what you drive when the speed limit is 60mpH

    To say augment has no advantage over the non augments is total idiocy...
    By speaking most of you are revealing just how much you don't know about situations in game based on various character types.
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  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User

    I am extremely effective with my build....



    Tested and proven many times over..



    Assume what you want..



    It's you who insults non bonding users intelligence levels.



    About cars...



    Doesn't matter what you drive when the speed limit is 60mpH



    To say augment has no advantage over the non augments is total idiocy...

    By speaking most of you are revealing just how much you don't know about situations in game based on various character types.

    they are just saying you could be 3x more effective^^
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited February 2017


    I am extremely effective with my build....
    Tested and proven many times over..
    Assume what you want..

    Compared to whom ?
    You want to say that almost doubling your stats wont make you better?


    It's you who insults non bonding users intelligence levels.

    Really:


    not using a bonding stone is not like choosing to not use a weapon enchantment in a slot and keeping the slot open and empty.
    my augment is a companion, a non augment is a companion.. therefore i am using a companion.
    my augment has bonding stones on it, but so what if it doesn't.
    like the person above me stated. I use my augment in times I don't want massive aggro, which is always!

    Where I've insulted anyone's inelegance or non-bonding users?


    Doesn't matter what you drive when the speed limit is 60mpH

    What limit is this ? DPS is not capped. There is a lot of HP to kill.

  • kisakeekisakee Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    tom#6998 said:

    I am extremely effective with my build....



    Tested and proven many times over..



    Assume what you want..



    It's you who insults non bonding users intelligence levels.



    About cars...



    Doesn't matter what you drive when the speed limit is 60mpH



    To say augment has no advantage over the non augments is total idiocy...

    By speaking most of you are revealing just how much you don't know about situations in game based on various character types.

    they are just saying you could be 3x more effective^^
    ..and having 3x less fun cause 3x less skill needed. None of them can understand that we do matter about HOW something is done and not only THAT.

    -- Edit for typo --
    Post edited by kisakee on
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  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    In the map where it was me vs a relic weapon bonding using traditional complaining, he did not have 3x my damage.. barely over 2x my damage. That alone was based on his choice of area encounters plus bonding rank 9 and 10.
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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    kisakee said:


    ..and having 3x less fun cause 3x less skill needed. None of them can't understand that we do matter about HOW something is done and not only THAT.

    Then why getting to 4k IL ? Why have t.vorpal ? Why have augment at all ? Go minimum 2k, for max skill...
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    To say you want to kick someine out who is second on the pain giver char out of 3 dps players because they don't have bindings is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. More so when the damages of the tr you are tryin to kick are many times greater than the gwf in party.
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  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    After reading the original post, my guess is no one or almost no one was using a soulforged enchantment.
    A lesser soulforged gives you a free resurrection and the cooldown is only 90sec.
    There are plenty of things in CN which can one hit kill a dps player.
    There are times when you make a mistake or the tank/healer makes a mistake or there is lag and you are dead.
    I don't mind running dungeons with players with weak companions, but no soulforged in pve does bother me (except if you are super tanky). When I use the queue, the first thing I look at is .... armor enchantment (because I want to know if this player will live or need revives).
  • kisakeekisakee Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    kisakee said:


    ..and having 3x less fun cause 3x less skill needed. None of them can't understand that we do matter about HOW something is done and not only THAT.

    Then why getting to 4k IL ? Why have t.vorpal ? Why have augment at all ? Go minimum 2k, for max skill...
    Really.. Go think by yourself about it, no troll food for you today.
    r9jtqurw.jpg

  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User

    To say you want to kick someine out who is second on the pain giver char out of 3 dps players because they don't have bindings is HAMSTER. More so when the damages of the tr you are tryin to kick are many times greater than the gwf in party.

    That hamster was already discussed and closed. The fact you found a pug that wanted to kick you is great... but there is probably someone who will like to kick you for your name, your transmute (or lack thereof), your guild, or any other reason conceivable. A single pug is not an indicator for anything.

    You are asking if bondings are needed.... Trying to argue that they are not. At the same concept vorpal is not needed either.
    But we still use it.
    It's exactly the same. And you can't say

    I am extremely effective with my build....
    Tested and proven many times over..


    And at the same breath "Another TR did twice more damage" Twice !!
    If for you, at BiS, twice, 3 times and so on is still "my build is extremely effective" I think we are not talking about the same effective.

    Don't misunderstand me, I'm not the greatest, I get outdpsed often enough... And I truly understand that there are limits, for example I wont use elixirs and potions and so on. I don't like to bother with consumables, while others have a pot bar enough to fill a second screen. So yes, I do understand. But having the bondings and not just swap to fully use them.... That I don't agree with.
    10mil AD right there not utilized... 20k stats...
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