Bonding being seen as a must?

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  • elrondknight
    elrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    araxelven said:

    I chose not to buy into bonding because everything that has ever performed too well eventually has been nerfed.



    When regeneration worked in combat I made all of my regeneration artifacs mythic to max regen. Guess what happened? Regeneration was changed to not work in combat anymore.



    Shadow demon was bis companion in pve able to hit for me in solo play 200000 critical damage on monsters. It was nerfed and it was not even as game breaking as bondings.



    Many other things that were seen as standard and not 1/10th as powerful as bondings were nerfed.



    Peaking chests was see as normal and it also got nerfed.



    I spent more than $3000.00 us dollars on this game just to have all I desired that seemed and we were told functioned as intended changed.



    Fool me one shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool spend 3000 bucks and constantly changing my items companions and skills like we are in perpetual beta mode - priceless literally.

    This... is a pretty bad explanation. How you spend your own money is your none of our business, but to spend 3000$ on this game (how? I dont even...) and refuse to get bondings when you obviously have enough accumulated wealth in the game to do so without spending a cent is baffling. Especially because unlike artifacts and companions, enchants will always be sellable if anything changes in the future.

    I love my Shadow Demon and still use it after the nerf, but if I had to change it the net loss would only be about 1.3 mill AD (cost + upgrading to epic) for a companion that I've used for 6 months. That's about the price of a single R11 enchant, and if you're 4k I assume you have plenty of those.

    Again, that's no excuse for other players being rude and for solo content you can do as you wish, but if you ADVERTISE yourself for GROUP content as a 4k TR but don't use bonding stones, I understand that others could feel that they were mislead.
    This a bad example. If you spend the time/money to level bondings to 12, & then they are nerfed... you will never sell them for anything close to what you spent on them.

  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User



    This a bad example. If you spend the time/money to level bondings to 12, & then they are nerfed... you will never sell them for anything close to what you spent on them.

    So? Where is the guarantee that anything will hold value?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • waywardwizard#4349
    waywardwizard#4349 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    So last night I was playing on my 4100 item level trickster in castle never, and everything was going perfect. We had two tricksters, one paladin, one great weapon fighter, and one cleric.



    I was using a full crowd control setup to keep the party alive then instant killing demons with the special boon that allows it.



    We made it to the first boss, talgath the undying or something like that.

    Everything was fine and dandy, until the super dps tr died. He instantly said my build sucks and raged on me saying use bonding. I responded I don't have bindings rank 12 nor do I need them. The whole party died and I was left soolong the boss.

    To make a long story short the paladin got jealous of my survivability, and the trickster got upset because he screamed at me to go buy bindings and I said no thanks.



    Then someone tried to vote kick me...(it was the tr) my damage was 36 million second highest only to the other trickster who had close to double my damage. (This was because he was using higher damage aoe spam skills that did not offer control, plus his bindings rank 10 or 11, plus he had purple relic weapons)



    Everyone in party said it would not be wise to kick me, but the bonding tr kept trying and was screaming again for me to open auction house and purchase bindings rank 12, even though he had rank 10 and 11s.



    So on the way to the second mini boss this tr died again. Guess what happened next... he blamed his death yet again on me not having bindings and held up everyone by screaming and trying to vote kick me.



    Eventually he left. Mind you I was secoND in dps. He had 68 million damage, I had 42 million damage and the great weapon fighter has 7 million damage. Yet still somehow it's my fault he died and that things were not perfectly smooth.



    So we beat the second mini boss, made it to orcus, then a hunter ranger joined the group. He was also a bonding user... as we fought orcus... everyone died but me again... the hunter ranger said we need more dps and that he doesn't use ranged attacks and left the group. So there I am soloing orcus.... LA LA LA and a Cotrol wizard joins the group.



    This control wizard also was a bindings rank 12 user. I asked if they wanted to reset or let me solo orcus... they said let's reset.



    Now we all go in again... everyone die's but myself and the control wizard. Orcus dies and we thanked the cw for being the only bindings rank 12 user that didn't complain, cry, or quit because I was not a bonding rank 12 user.



    So can anyone tell me why the majority of bonding's users are trying to say it's the only way to play and refusing to play with other dps players that don't have bondings slotted?



    I am all ears....



    (Forgive the spelling issues my phone keeps changing words and punctuations)

    Sounds like a run I would have left myself if I were you. Some things in this game and in life too are best just left behind and instantly forgotten. Don't overthink it.

    As far as bonding runestones rank 12... They spoiled us. They allow bad players to do amazing things except of course be good players. I have several high item level characters with a protection paladin being one of them. I have tanked CN without bondings but honestly after the nerf to Binding Oath it was hard to survive Orcus as a Paladin unless a cleric was spamming AA. I eventually got the r12 bonding (thanks RNG for that legendary mount which i sold) and my power ( by power i mean my char's overall power not the Power stat) pretty much trippled. My char was literally 3 times stronger...
  • mifiisu
    mifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    good grief, it seems some people fail to comprehend that in that 'race' between the 67 convertible and Ferrari - the only one treating that as a race to begin with is the guy in the Ferrari.

    Ofc augments don't compete with the sheer DPS numbers, but why would I ever want to max my DPS if I can already do everything in the game without r12s? The only measure of success I'm seeing here from ultra-bonding people seems to me speed?! And 90% of the content can be done at a perfectly reasonable time with augments as well. Ofc I can see why more is more is more, but I agree with those people who don't really see the fun in that.
  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    The issue is not whether bondings should be nerfed. The issue is that peeps need to quit acting like childern and play the game the way they like. I like to min/max. It is the single most enjoyable part of this game to me. It makes the grind worth it to me. I will never settle for not doing everything that I possibly can to improve my characters dps, survivability, and overall contributuon to the teams that I run with, Pug or Premade. That also includes having a helpful TEAM attitude. I respect others and hope that that respect and teamwork is given in return...if it is not ce la vie....there are plenty more runs (and an ignore button) in my future.
  • kolatmaster
    kolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    jaegernl said:

    This thread has taken a rather odd turn and could've been closed after @kolatmaster posted.




    va8Ru.gif
  • rafaelda
    rafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User

    So last night I was playing on my 4100 item level trickster in castle never, and everything was going perfect. We had two tricksters, one paladin, one great weapon fighter, and one cleric.



    I was using a full crowd control setup to keep the party alive then instant killing demons with the special boon that allows it.



    We made it to the first boss, talgath the undying or something like that.

    Everything was fine and dandy, until the super dps tr died. He instantly said my build sucks and raged on me saying use bonding. I responded I don't have bindings rank 12 nor do I need them. The whole party died and I was left soolong the boss.

    To make a long story short the paladin got jealous of my survivability, and the trickster got upset because he screamed at me to go buy bindings and I said no thanks.



    Then someone tried to vote kick me...(it was the tr) my damage was 36 million second highest only to the other trickster who had close to double my damage. (This was because he was using higher damage aoe spam skills that did not offer control, plus his bindings rank 10 or 11, plus he had purple relic weapons)



    Everyone in party said it would not be wise to kick me, but the bonding tr kept trying and was screaming again for me to open auction house and purchase bindings rank 12, even though he had rank 10 and 11s.



    So on the way to the second mini boss this tr died again. Guess what happened next... he blamed his death yet again on me not having bindings and held up everyone by screaming and trying to vote kick me.



    Eventually he left. Mind you I was secoND in dps. He had 68 million damage, I had 42 million damage and the great weapon fighter has 7 million damage. Yet still somehow it's my fault he died and that things were not perfectly smooth.



    So we beat the second mini boss, made it to orcus, then a hunter ranger joined the group. He was also a bonding user... as we fought orcus... everyone died but me again... the hunter ranger said we need more dps and that he doesn't use ranged attacks and left the group. So there I am soloing orcus.... LA LA LA and a Cotrol wizard joins the group.



    This control wizard also was a bindings rank 12 user. I asked if they wanted to reset or let me solo orcus... they said let's reset.



    Now we all go in again... everyone die's but myself and the control wizard. Orcus dies and we thanked the cw for being the only bindings rank 12 user that didn't complain, cry, or quit because I was not a bonding rank 12 user.



    So can anyone tell me why the majority of bonding's users are trying to say it's the only way to play and refusing to play with other dps players that don't have bondings slotted?



    I am all ears....



    (Forgive the spelling issues my phone keeps changing words and punctuations)

    hehe sorry to hear that, but i think your problem was not the bounding stone or there users, is that you had some bad luck and got some "jerk players" what unfortunately is quite common in pug party...
    when you meet this kind of players they will find something they think is best and yell at you, will be your buid, your gear, your companions or skill set ups, or even your vocation...
    One time i got someone yelling at me for my DPS be to low when i was playing a tank GF and he was a TR...

    Try to not blame the system, this kind off player will find somthing to complain and blame others when something not goes well or just a little slower than they usually does...

    Search good people and add as friends, only them and et a good guild, not for the boons, for the players and good luck out there

    BTW congrats os soling Orcus i wish i has there to see, i always like to see people fighting to the end !
    i wish that i could find more people like that in game ...
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Here is the result.....
    Got bondings on a non augment?
    Nope!

    http://imgur.com/BuYAxdc
    #readyforbondingequalization
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  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Final result here

    http://imgur.com/BuYAxdc
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  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    #readyforbondingequalization
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  • urabask
    urabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    Rofl. 1h 48m.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Everyone else was dead.....
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  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User
    My biggest issue "doing what works best" leads to things like what happened with the HR Trapper with the intent to make all paths viable; things get changed.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    What you fail to grasp @rinat114 is that at each boss everyone died continually. From the first boss to the last players died. Players gave up and left... New players came, died, left... More players came, died, and stayed.

    This was not a straight run at all.
    It was full of complications from start to finish. The bonding Hunter ranger that was here left at the first boss and had less damage than me. Before the Ranger left she said l, "sorry I don't have high damage I will go". We all said no no its fine you can stay we are not hating on you, but she still quit. This happened time and time again, until we were left with our final group.

    Something is wrong when players up and quit mid battle feeling like that can't compete even with the best gear.
    , and in this case perfect bondings.

    Where did this mentality come from.

    I think players like this have been kicked out many times for being inadequate.

    Remember the original CN? It was no easy task, took skill or tricks to beat it.

    Obtain the skill to stay alive and win through it all.

    Master your game with the tools you have at hand. Don't feel lesser than and pressured to bend to the masses.

    #love-bonding-users-hate
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  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    @rinat114
    Based on what you said you really don't get how my class works. (Shrugs)
    Let he who have an ear to hear, hear.
    I change my setup based on what is needed as we progress through the dungeon. I use what works when it is needed within my toolkit.
    (SMILES BIG)

    It all comes down to how you see the world bro. For you it's flat, for me its round.

    Click if you want to learn something

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  • rinat114
    rinat114 Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    @demonmonger

    As I said, time and again, it's not the bondings, stop blaming the bondings. Today it's the bondings, several mods ago it was augments. If you didn't have an augment back then you were getting the exact same hate and disgusted looks from everyone. Tomorrow it'll be something else and so on, it's an MMO - things change, get nerfed, buffed, etc. It's how MMO's move forward in development, for better or for worse.

    So as I said, let's call the child by its name - it's an attitude issue, no need to mask it behind an in-game item like bondings. The bondings just happen to represent a much wider issue that's in fact common in all games.

    People are lazy these days, true. Hiding behind the AA DC and stepping on red AOE's like there's no tomorrow - it's careless, terrible, crappy gameplay that I can't stand, and if there's something that I hate more than insisting on subpar builds for the sake of stubbornness and being different is careless gameplay. It's insulting to the players who are doing their job. However that's related to the endless power creep this game has (aka immunity to damage in various forms, it was bubble and now it's AA).

    There's no shame in following the masses, if the masses know wtf they're doing. I don't appreciate this whole hipster attitude, especially if it kills efficiency in the game. But then again, that's just how I view things. My guild represents my opinion and attitude - I encourage fine gameplay and style, unique or not, it doesn't matter, as long as one's capable of carrying their weight in a run and aren't a dead weight on everyone else.

    Edit: I know more about TR's than you think, don't insult me.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    You contradicted yourself...

    I agree that people are lazy, but to say I am not doing my job is untrue. I just don't care to buy bondings rank 12.

    The old issues of augment vs companion was that the companion would draw aggro as people tried to speed run through maps like pirate king and so on. It was not about 3 times or 4 times the damage.

    I don't hold the hipster mindset either.... think hard about who insulted who first.

    Yes it is the bondings and their direct interactions with accessories. No other enchantment has this overpowering effect in the game.

    Personally I feel it will be nerfed in some way.

    Someone brought up how I was upset when we had life steal, regeneration changes. That was totally different as well.



    Quote @tolkienbuff

    Thanks for your reply.
    Post edited by demonmonger on
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  • rinat114
    rinat114 Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    Bruh, case in point, you refuse to follow the current very powerful meta, you'll get hated for it by pugs forever and always, don't expect anything else, the world isn't gonna go upside down an instant or overnight, there's a majority, there's a minority, you're the minority as the meta is, whether you like it or not, the majority. Going on about who's wrong and who's right is absolutely pointless. It doesn't matter if the meta is bondings, augments, goddamn sprinkles on your shoes, the meta is forever created for efficiency and always popular. You don't want to roll with the stream? That's on you, and there are consequences. Nobody's making you buy bondings, a pug might get upset at you for not being efficient enough in their eyes, but that's about it. No harm, no foul. Sit tight and breathe, that's the best advice I can give you.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Because I know something you don't know (wink)

    And that's just it... the pug was saying load zen and buy bondings rank 12 or kick. He couldn't even do the job with the bondings.
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  • sirjimbofrancis
    sirjimbofrancis Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Look, @demonmonger , I can respect someone sticking to a build they enjoy. The point of the game is to have fun, after all. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. I also know that most people out there, (even bonding runestone users), are accomodating of other people in pug groups regardless of IL, build, or skill. But, the people who are likely to behave like jerks are more likely to be running in pugs, because they are jerks and no one wants to run with jerks. As @rinat114 pointed out, if you want to always avoid the jerks, run with friends.

    I don't think there is any debate that bondings are more effective than augments. Are they OP? I suppose that debate could be had. Does it take more skill to run some of the endgame dungeons with augments instead? That's probably debatable, too, with the other side saying bondings mainly cut down the time it takes as they can do significantly more damage.

    But, none of these debates matter, because you are running the build and the manner you find enjoyable. Other people run the builds they like as they feel they can help the party more by doing the maximum amount of damage that they can do. It's okay for people to run whatever they want.

    No one likes to deal with a jerk in a pug group, but that attitude doesn't mean everyone who runs bondings have the same attitude.

    Just block the jerks and play, man! Plenty of non-jerks to run with, you know? Even most of the people that have posted here wouldn't kick you from a pug just because you use an augment.
    Lilia Drakon - PVE Executioner TR
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  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    (Smiles) I have bondings on my augment.
    Listen though... do you hear that? They are on the move, things will be changing soon...

    Seriously though I have loyal companion gear on my augments. Tested it with my non augments, and because my bondings are just over lesser granting me like 35% of my companions bonuses, even if I put them on a non augment that could be buffed by others and whatnot. My power rating will not be more than 5% different than it is now. The effectiveness of bonding increases exponentially once you go beyond the greater range into perfect and rank 12.

    As is I'm better off with them on my augments.

    Would I invest in more power by getting higher rank bondings just so I can proc 4000x3 plus enchantment stats 700x3 x2 into my chatacter?

    No no no because I don't feel that these companions will always transfer this to the player.

    It's too much of an increase in stats, when things are too good to be true, they often are not true.
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  • jaegernl
    jaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    Stop pretending there's some 'in the loop' stuff going on. No one is buying it for a second.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Who is pretending?

    Want to learn more..
    Practice this
    http://www.greaterreality.com/rv/instruct.htm
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  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    Wow....ok one more time with meaning...WOW!
  • kangkeok
    kangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    I think the whole issue here is not bonding. Its PUG. U expect to get kicked, trolled, meeting new player that is still learning, people complaining or rage quit, pretender of elitist and etc. Despite all this, if u have the tolerance and willing to accept the outcome of it, then que for it. Else just run a premade or a guild run. I get kicked most the time when i m running my 2.3k MOF oppressor. Sometime i get recognized for my value. I dont expect everyone to recognize my value so i have no complain. I dont blame other to quit either. Sometime i quit when i realize real dps is needed for the party to complete the dungeon. What i dont like is the fact the dungeon closes after several quits which is very annoying and cryptic need to fix it. All in all, Its PUG. U expect to find all type of people.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    This is how I get left soloing maps... people come and go until map locks
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  • asterotg
    asterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    A few days ago we did some runs with a former guild mate. He has a 3.7k GWF. Another friend did run with his 3.3k GWF. The second one did ca. 2x the dmg of the first one.

    The first one complained about the low dps (as he did in some other runs before) and we compared builds, companions etc. Guess what. He did use an augment and the other GWF used an active companion with bondings, thats it. We went to the dread ring and compared stats outfight, in fight and with AA (I joined with my DC). BTW he used lesser bondings on his augment. After some reasoning he changed to an active companion.

    A hour later we had geared the active companion up and changed his insignia boni. He ended up with similar stats in fight without DC and with ~40k more power with AA.

    Dont get me wrong, I did run with him using an augment and I would have continued doing so. No one forced him to change to an active companion, but he saw, that our dps was much higher and he kept asking for the reason and we guessed before, that the augments could be the reason. We tested it. He saw the difference. He wanted to change his build and we helped him adjust.

    If you dont like active companions, good for you. If you want to be done with your grind in a minimum of time and help your mates with max impact for your ADs, use bondings and an active companion. After the next 2x RP I will have 15 R12 bondings. Not bc I am a fan of them, but bc they are the best way to boost your chars performance after gearing him up and slapping some R9s on the char. After that, I invest in R12 bondings and R12s for the offense slots of my active companions.

    I know, that I might lose millions, if they nerf them, but I saved hours in dungeon runs using them.

    PS. Yes I know, that 15 bondings is a little bit exessive, but I like to play different classes and I dont want to spent half of my time swapping enchants.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • mentinmindmaker
    mentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,372 Arc User
    So lets do a thought experiement:
    There are two types of gamers, those optimizing for dps(which means bondings), and those optimizing for 'other' including just having fun and not caring to improve their IL.

    We then make two queues, one for the dps focused people and one for the 'others'.

    Do anyone think the 'others' would join the 'other' queue at all? Would they not rather join the 'dps' queue hoping to be carried smoothly through the content?