@asterdahl ty for the update on frost and plague. this is indeed an overwhelming change and quite frankly i wont feel bad using terror now comparatively. I just could not understand why you guys let terror go through all that mitigation and let some of the other enchants just not respect the cap and hence in the long run perform better, but i guess this was the plan all along to get them inline. 30% dr reduction on frost still feels too high even if it's active for 4 secs.. i would have settled with 15% but in any case now that they are all capped at 200% all that means is most of just keep applying stuff to maintain that cap. I understand vorpal and dread are off the charts for the time being, but it would be better if you just removed the dr effects from them and perhaps apply more utility. This would help bridge the gap between the currently in-progress rework and the baseline you guys set which was vorpal and dread. Most likely .. err in all probability everyone will not want the dr effects removed from them but it needs to be done.
GWF has no DoTs or multi-procs except Deep Gash and Slam. So, they have to proc WEs or GWF will likely be left in the dust if IT, SB, PotB, DT and other powers proc them.
Flourish is also a multi-hitting power. I haven't tested anything on preview but on live my Lightning enchant only triggers off the first hit. So instead of a 24% boost to the power's damage it's only 3.6% added damage.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2661 Physical Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Weapon deals 640 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Arc deals 585 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2752 Physical Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Arc deals 548 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2838 Physical Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Arc deals 608 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2783 Physical Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 3022 Physical Damage to Target Dummy. [Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2949 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
GWFs (and I specifically mean Destroyers here, since the other two paragon feat paths are probably going to undergo a massive rebalance) are set up so pretty much the only spammable attack you have are your at-wills. This makes up for the fact that your other nukes hit for MASSIVE damage. GWF is basically a combo-setup class, except thanks to the Destroyer capstone they can also do consistently good DPS the more they hit something. Regardless, considering how you have one of the very few things in this game that buffs attack animation speed (Unstoppable) and one of the very best AoE spammable powers in the game (Wicked Strike, Weapon Master's Strike) I'm not sure what you're complaining about. You want more procs? Spam your at-wills.
Finally, as I pointed out in a previous post, some classes have the means to stack an incredible amount of +%damage effects to significantly increase weapon strike proc damage. GWFs fall under this category. You may not be doing as many procs, but the sheer number of +%damage effects you have act as a MULTIPLIER for the number of procs you do per attack. I have already pointed out that the relationship between number of procs and +%damage (from buffs and debuffs) might be something worth looking into in the future.
While that's not a bad guess, it's actually due to the power being one that requires selecting a target area, not due to it having a healing component. When @rgutscheradev mentioned a big fixup for a number of powers that don't proc weapon enhancements, Divine Glow should be caught in that fixup. I apologize for the inconvenience this issue has long caused.
-Score.
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What's true today need not be true tomorrow. Vorpal just works. If other enchants are buffed but don't work on all hits for some classes it may shift things.
(Also I think Slam could definitely use some love, but triggering on all of its hits might be too much.)
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
GUYS.. umm you have totally devalued those enchantments to zero.. this WILL not work and you need to go back to the drawing board.
Plaguefire and Frost, they literally are not woth the cwards Ive used to make them.
Plaguefire was my first enchantment i made to perfect 3 years ago.
You cannot leave this as is and expect us to work with it.. THEY will be useless to anyone over 70 basically.
Dont you dare just pass this over.. your tlaking millions and millions of AD down the drain, we cant all just go out and purchase new ones because of this whim.
EITHER revert the change, or make that they do something , if the debuff isnt counted.
Wowzers.. overnight code change.. destroy multiple enchants at once.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
Yeah, the enchants being subject to the 200% debuff cap for PF & Frost, pretty much make them substantially less valuable to an end game party, since the DR cap is generally already hit by the parties active/passive skills. Expect a market crash on plague fire & frost.....
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
They are nothing more then leveling enchants.. THEY made them into pre 70 leveling enchants!
They wont debuff.. they wont do enough damage to compensate for not debuffing.
SO WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR?
This is crazy.
you cannot just wipe away thier value in this manner without better compensation on the enchnats..
Basically terror, plague and frost will never be used in game.
This is all you have done IS RIPPED away value of 2 enchants entirely (terror was already destoryed) and adding value to a couple others..
How in the world is this ok?
You are stating the goal is to have enchants have more value.. but you just massively nerfed two of them.. without adding enough value EVERY to use them.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Seriously @rgutscheradev, talk @asterdahl out of this... Nobody uses those enchantments for their 'damage'. This change has messed up my day The uncapped debuff was the only reason those were used, don't make it another Holy Avenger...
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
By the way... Kudos to @rgutscheradev for the constant participation and updates. Please keep it coming
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
In this case, need to do to cap had been reached very difficult.
Maybe make all DR debuffs mitigated against mobs LVL 73 by 25%? (from all ability, feats, WE, etc). Or make a function of debuffs converging to 200%, but not reaching it? (like hyperbole)
In the current situation the WE with DR debuff almost not needed.
advertising : pls, rework HR capstone of Archery spec. Its DR debuff, capped, work for one enemy(boss) and it do nothing on boss (because cap on the boss always reached).
Drider
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
the issue is enchants are just not made overnight.. they take significant time and resources, by basically destroying two in this manner (utility ones) there is little recourse.
it also forces everyone to go into a dps spec basically.
Why does EVERY class have to go into a dps spec to be useful?
Oh... if the debuff on those enchants gets capped, many people just lost months and months of progress on their characters, or a ton of $$$ if they invested money in the game.
You'll need to add these to the trader next to the rewars agent, so they can be traded for an equal level enchant of another type.
With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.
@rgutscheradev Knee Breaker and Flourish are GF powers that should tick enchantment for each hit, otherwise they wouldn't be getting the same benefit other powers get from echantments.
@asterdahl No love for Lifedrinker, Holy Aveneger and Terror? It was mentioned previously in the thread by @thefabricant that, according to testing, those three are simply outclassed by other options.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
SInce plauge is "fixed" when do u plan to "fix" dread? dread ignores cap as well and it is 8%(and some ppl say it can stack to if more ppl have it) i guess its time for everyone to replace plague for dread
Post edited by warpet on
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited February 2017
Updated my links to account for the current build on preview. I did preemptively change the formulae for fixed bilethorn, however, it is still currently broken.
Additional notes:
Steal time now procs weapon enchantments twice rather than 6 times.
Imprisonment procs weapon enchantments once.
All other abilities remain unchanged.
The hidden DoTs no longer exist and have been factored out of my formulae.
If the PF and Frost changes go through I will remove PF from the graphs, as it would then become objectively worse than other enchants for CW.
Wow, 30%??! I mean...it seems excescive, in jump fights like demogorgon/sva/tiamat (with pauses) and in endgame groups in normal dungeon cleaning the fighting time amount will be quite superior to 1/5th. in pvp as well it will give a big burst. 200% DR reduction in jump fights is not always easy to achieve, in bosses on the other hand....
Comments
ty for the update on frost and plague. this is indeed an overwhelming change and quite frankly i wont feel bad using terror now comparatively. I just could not understand why you guys let terror go through all that mitigation and let some of the other enchants just not respect the cap and hence in the long run perform better, but i guess this was the plan all along to get them inline. 30% dr reduction on frost still feels too high even if it's active for 4 secs.. i would have settled with 15% but in any case now that they are all capped at 200% all that means is most of just keep applying stuff to maintain that cap. I understand vorpal and dread are off the charts for the time being, but it would be better if you just removed the dr effects from them and perhaps apply more utility. This would help bridge the gap between the currently in-progress rework and the baseline you guys set which was vorpal and dread. Most likely .. err in all probability everyone will not want the dr effects removed from them but it needs to be done.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2661 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Weapon deals 640 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Arc deals 585 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2752 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Arc deals 548 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2838 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lightning Arc deals 608 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2783 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 3022 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Flourish deals 2949 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
@ramotheone
Regardless, considering how you have one of the very few things in this game that buffs attack animation speed (Unstoppable) and one of the very best AoE spammable powers in the game (Wicked Strike, Weapon Master's Strike) I'm not sure what you're complaining about. You want more procs? Spam your at-wills.
Finally, as I pointed out in a previous post, some classes have the means to stack an incredible amount of +%damage effects to significantly increase weapon strike proc damage. GWFs fall under this category. You may not be doing as many procs, but the sheer number of +%damage effects you have act as a MULTIPLIER for the number of procs you do per attack.
I have already pointed out that the relationship between number of procs and +%damage (from buffs and debuffs) might be something worth looking into in the future. -Score.
So... What are our debuff enchantments now? From my understanding, Frost and PF are effectively useless now.
Pah, Dreadtheft nerfed. Why that?! It freakin locks your powers while using.
(Also I think Slam could definitely use some love, but triggering on all of its hits might be too much.)
@rgutscheradev
GUYS.. umm you have totally devalued those enchantments to zero.. this WILL not work and you need to go back to the drawing board.
Plaguefire and Frost, they literally are not woth the cwards Ive used to make them.
Plaguefire was my first enchantment i made to perfect 3 years ago.
You cannot leave this as is and expect us to work with it.. THEY will be useless to anyone over 70 basically.
Dont you dare just pass this over.. your tlaking millions and millions of AD down the drain, we cant all just go out and purchase new ones because of this whim.
EITHER revert the change, or make that they do something , if the debuff isnt counted.
Wowzers.. overnight code change.. destroy multiple enchants at once.
They wont debuff..
they wont do enough damage to compensate for not debuffing.
SO WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR?
This is crazy.
you cannot just wipe away thier value in this manner without better compensation on the enchnats..
Basically terror, plague and frost will never be used in game.
This is all you have done IS RIPPED away value of 2 enchants entirely (terror was already destoryed) and adding value to a couple others..
How in the world is this ok?
You are stating the goal is to have enchants have more value.. but you just massively nerfed two of them.. without adding enough value EVERY to use them.
The uncapped debuff was the only reason those were used, don't make it another Holy Avenger...
Maybe make all DR debuffs mitigated against mobs LVL 73 by 25%? (from all ability, feats, WE, etc).
Or make a function of debuffs converging to 200%, but not reaching it? (like hyperbole)
In the current situation the WE with DR debuff almost not needed.
advertising
it also forces everyone to go into a dps spec basically.
Why does EVERY class have to go into a dps spec to be useful?
You'll need to add these to the trader next to the rewars agent, so they can be traded for an equal level enchant of another type.
Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.
The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
If the purpose is to make enchants useful.. they are not doing their job with these two.. they just ripped them apart to nothing.
Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.
The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
@rgutscheradev
can i please have an update regarding my post on the barkshield enchant please
* only reason i mention it is it was included in your notes with weapon enchants initially
Knee Breaker and Flourish are GF powers that should tick enchantment for each hit, otherwise they wouldn't be getting the same benefit other powers get from echantments.
@asterdahl
No love for Lifedrinker, Holy Aveneger and Terror? It was mentioned previously in the thread by @thefabricant that, according to testing, those three are simply outclassed by other options.
And no, dread doesn't ignore cap...
Additional notes:
Steal time now procs weapon enchantments twice rather than 6 times.
Imprisonment procs weapon enchantments once.
All other abilities remain unchanged.
The hidden DoTs no longer exist and have been factored out of my formulae.
If the PF and Frost changes go through I will remove PF from the graphs, as it would then become objectively worse than other enchants for CW.