Something that I see in every new mmo is a false sense of elitism in poorly skilled players. In neverwinter this elitism is coming from a persons item level. Many people believe that if they struggle in a group instance and have a high item level (3k+) it must be because the instance is too OP even for their "mlg" skills and "proper skill set up".
As of right now I am having trouble running any dungeons because of this. I sit at 2.1k item level and am getting booted from most t1 dungeon because most of the groups i get matched with believe that you need 3k to be able to damage the boss. EVEN though I always come out in the top 2 on the pain giver chart and have out dps'd many people sitting at 3k item score in those dungeons (i'm SW btw which i already know is a high dps class). I've been able to "solo" kill the bosses in t1 dungeons after my team dies in reasonable time (the hp has always been down to the last bar or two). My point is you definitely dont need to be immensely overleveled to run a group instance (3k+ for t1's?? lol)
If your reading this and thinking wth I'm wrong and the community is not like that; its is because this is how it is on the ps4, which is where i am currently playing.
Which leads to my question for pc veterans.
How long did it take for this elitism in the poorly skilled players to die off?
Unfortunatly the game has revoved to a state that when a player gets in a dungeon all it matters is a chart, how stable your runs is going doesn't matter and who is buffing you matters but is put to second place, the goal is to be top paingiver, and that is just stupidity, if you want to know more about it, you should read @thefabricant "what paingiver doesn't tell", paingiver is not just not accurate (I caught logs of buffs being set as buffer damage and the chains in first CN boss damage count as damage for the person taking the damage) but it also doesn't translate the run, i can be using a dancing shield in sva, increasing the 10 people there damage by a lot, more specificly single target but get mine reduced a bunch.
Second the game is full of small minded people who's only gold is become the best by the standards settled, no matter what it takes and they dont even ask themselves why, the just go with the flow and focus on understanding that rotation and forget to understand other classes and what's around them, if you want to run content without beeing kicked/misjudged you need:
High IL: There are several ways to increase your item level at low cost, alsrandomkill explains some in one of his videos if you're interested in see.
Here is my "short" 101 for lfg:
A set people recognize for your class;
The best set for a SW is orcus but the range prices of the set is intolerable, orcus set is not drastic change, it is the best, but the belt of black ice, cloack of black ice and another random artifact make very good performance and it's of wide comunity knowledge that black ice is good for sw. Dont pick artifacts with defencive stats/recovery, even if your pet has defencive slots, people that see that when you are inside the dungeoun will either forget or dont care, but they WILL judge your artifacts when looking for group. So a good combination would be DC sigil as main, CW sigil, tiamat's orb of magesty, lantern of revelation.
Armour reeinforcment kits, each one at best tier will give you 35 IL, but warning, once applied it's gone forever, so choose wisely if your equipment will be definitive or not.
Upgrade your artifact equipment to legendary to open the extra enchant slot, if you do that even if you slot a r7, it will be a big boost on your IL.
I ignore all of this, my sw has 3 artifacts of HP, plated band of constitution and some recovery, but i dont lfg anymore, if you do then you should prepare for the elitists
Something that I see in every new mmo is a false sense of elitism in poorly skilled players. In neverwinter this elitism is coming from a persons item level. Many people believe that if they struggle in a group instance and have a high item level (3k+) it must be because the instance is too OP even for their "mlg" skills and "proper skill set up".
As of right now I am having trouble running any dungeons because of this. I sit at 2.1k item level and am getting booted from most t1 dungeon because most of the groups i get matched with believe that you need 3k to be able to damage the boss. EVEN though I always come out in the top 2 on the pain giver chart and have out dps'd many people sitting at 3k item score in those dungeons (i'm SW btw which i already know is a high dps class). I've been able to "solo" kill the bosses in t1 dungeons after my team dies in reasonable time (the hp has always been down to the last bar or two). My point is you definitely dont need to be immensely overleveled to run a group instance (3k+ for t1's?? lol)
If your reading this and thinking wth I'm wrong and the community is not like that; its is because this is how it is on the ps4, which is where i am currently playing.
Which leads to my question for pc veterans.
How long did it take for this elitism in the poorly skilled players to die off?
I agree ilvl is not everything and even that a high ilvl toon can have bad build/playing skill but it be always better than a low ilvl toon with bad build/playing skill.
There always be elitism, Let's be fair cant really blame people who looks forward to ilvl most of these people are inexperience as well (not really/barely 3k LF3k+)
These ppl don't know your capability or the owner of 2k ilvl toon, all they can see is your ilvl numbers . The ilvl indicates the owner's dedication/effort/experience that was put into the toon (can be wrong sometimes)
Everyone wanted a smooth run instead of stuck and gated outside last boss for an hour or so.
Most of the veteran players don't look for ilvl they know exactly what they need, what to do and looks for, unfortunately most of these people looks for party from guild/alliance/friend list or custom channel which you normally don't see them
As most guys above advised, join good guild do guild/alliance runs and don't pug premade your own team prove to them that you are capable to hold your own weight and more.
While IL is not everything, to claim, that it it does not contribute to dps is utter BS.
Yes, a 4k PVP player with PvP build and spec will most likely get outdpsed by a 3-3.5k PvE player with a good build. I joined a PUG run, CN. By chance it was an alliance group with PvP players, who asked for more runs. My AA righteous DC (3.6k IL) did more dmg then the 2 PvP GWFs (3k+IL) in some runs.
BUT, if your time is limited and you have a BIS or near BIS PvE char, you can save a lot of time by running with similar geared and build ppl. Just read run times and compare them. A group of ppl with good builds, good gear and the right party composition will be done in less then half of the time most other groups will need. TBH a decent group of 4k PvE players will most likely be done in 1/4 th of the time a normal PuG group would need.
I would not kick someone from a PuG run, but I did leave groups, if I was sure, that there is no chance to complete the dungeon.
While there is some elitism and in some chases unfounded, I dont like this trash talk about 4k ppl searching for a group of similar geared players. Yes, I might be able to solo ELOL with my GF or kill Orkus alone with my CW (active companion), but why should I? I spent years gearing up my chars. Refining the build after every change. Reading guides, tips, talking to other players or just testing different builds/ skills/ setups/ rotations. Are there other players with better builds or more skill, I am sure. Can I contribute to a run, I am sure, too. Where is the problem, if ppl prefer to build groups in 'super secret PvE channels' or running premade with like minded friends/ players?
My play time is quite limited at evenings after work, family, gym etc and I cant waste it in a 2 hour CN run with a pug 2k guys who haven't mastered Valindra yet. That being said I never initiate vote kicks nor I diss people for their build, items etc. I try to act only upon stuff that's under my control so what I do in a failing instance is tell everybody I think the run cant be finished and then leave. Im sure it seems elitist or a-hole like behavior to some people but after all time is precious. If the failing run is a guild/alliance run then I'm ok with it taking as long as it needs but that's another story.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Which leads to my question for pc veterans. How long did it take for this elitism in the poorly skilled players to die off?
It doesn't die. "Elitism" is a category wide enough to take everything and it usually measures the level of conceit that some players may have, but it often includes a different approach: I'm not an elitist, but I'm selective. I tend to be selective and such selection is not based on the item level, but on the knowledge of the players I use to play. I also use to join random groups which is a way to filter in and out new players I meet. If you're a poor player, you're poor regardeless the IL (and SVA is making evident how many bad 4k players are in). Your friend list is the most important thing where you find the friends/players you trust more. If you are a low IL player, a good guild is the best place to start your friend list.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Because this is how most people wants to run svardborg
We had runs with 4 well geared and speced players in semipremades and one PuG. I remember, that once or twice the random player asked, what he could contribute in our group and the answer was, stay in group, so we can que up and loot the good stuff.
The only problem we had, before personal loot, that for some reason the random player always wins the big ticket items. A friend of mine, who stopped playing more then a year ago, still curses that PuG HR in our ESOT run, who did ca. 40k dmg and won the artifact belt at a time, when they went for 5 kk.
null tbh your guidz on the GWF was game changing for me i had these kind of probelms before but what i did is that i started the runs myself and now that i'm well geared i help a lot of players and our guild's unwritten rule is FINISH TOGETHER OR LEAVE TOGETHER unless someone dc for too long or decided to leave other than that i try to link people guides and help them improve that way i made a lot of friends and actully enjoying the game but hearing u say u are laving made me real sad that we are losing such valuable player in the game
I only complain when someone is too lazy to help the party (whether he/she has low/high IL). Irks me to see low IL doing DPS in POM without any agro (not opening portals) and high IL people scattering mobs in dungeon runs.
When i fishing, saw lots this kind of job resume message on the lfg channel: x class 4k+ with r12 bounding runestone for nsav Really? How the other normal players get a room to access nsav, ndemo when lfg compare to those elitism guys? :*
Dam, same feeling as finding job in real world, senior vs junior for a simple job offer
I would say that it's less elitism and more of people saying "I'm lazy and don't want to work with people or a team, so I just want them to be super geared so I can do my own thing".
So, pretty much what Rapo said about "how many bad 4k players are in."
Elitism not only exist in high ilvl. Some 2.3k already start behaving like one. I remember doing CN with a pretty low ilvl group. They are about 2k to 2.4k. Everything is doing fine yet and mob is dying fast enough yet the kick message like "low level" keep popping up. Little that they know the person that is voted is a MOF CW which pretty much contribute to the party and he is doing his job pretty well keeping the mob frozen. It didnt takes long till i found the culprit when i say "the person that u voted is more useful than u". A 2.3k TR quit the instance. I dunno if its insecurity that causing people to behave this way. I hope i m not being mean to these people but i dont vote kick with message regarding ilvl but only AFK if it gets too serious.
People below 2.5k will not be able to really contribute well in for instance CN, and really should stay out.
Low-gear people signing up for instances where they have no business and thereby leeching and messing up other peoples game is just as big a problem as elitism. If people made sure they were of sufficient gear to meaningfully contribute in an instance before they joined, actions like votekicking or abandoning group would be much less needed.
So don't blame elitism only on the well-geared players, but also on low-geared opportunists being where they should not be.
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
People below 2.5k will not be able to really contribute well in for instance CN, and really should stay out.
Low-gear people signing up for instances where they have no business and thereby leeching and messing up other peoples game is just as big a problem as elitism. If people made sure they were of sufficient gear to meaningfully contribute in an instance before they joined, actions like votekicking or abandoning group would be much less needed.
So don't blame elitism only on the well-geared players, but also on low-geared opportunists being where they should not be.
I used to think the same way, but just yesterday I had two ETOS runs that made me change my mind. The party in the first run was completly 3k+, there was an OP, two CWs (incl. mine) and two SWs. When we arrived at the end boss, paingiver said that the first on the list was around 80kk and the second was around 30kk. I stated my concerns that the overall dps might be too low to finish the end boss, but after a long fight and with the help of some scrolls of life we managed it.
The second run had a party where my CW was the only 3k+. It had, however, one GF (2.3k) and a DC (2.8k) who knew what they were doing. The rest of the party was a TR (2.7k) and another CW (2.1k). While paingiver looked pretty much the same after the second run, the end boss was finished much faster and without any deaths at all.
So, your statement might still be valid if the <2.5k are really new PLAYERS who don't know their class mechanic very well, but if they are twinks and the players know what they are doing, the run is not unlikely to succeed.
I dont mind babysit low ilvl player even if they mess up the run abit here and there, especialy new player. Everyone have to start somewhere. What I can't tolerate are those people that behaving like elites trying to bully other player out of the game.
I used to think the same way, but just yesterday I had two ETOS runs that made me change my mind. The party in the first run was completly 3k+, there was an OP, two CWs (incl. mine) and two SWs. When we arrived at the end boss, paingiver said that the first on the list was around 80kk and the second was around 30kk. I stated my concerns that the overall dps might be too low to finish the end boss, but after a long fight and with the help of some scrolls of life we managed it.
The second run had a party where my CW was the only 3k+. It had, however, one GF (2.3k) and a DC (2.8k) who knew what they were doing. The rest of the party was a TR (2.7k) and another CW (2.1k). While paingiver looked pretty much the same after the second run, the end boss was finished much faster and without any deaths at all.
So, your statement might still be valid if the <2.5k are really new PLAYERS who don't know their class mechanic very well, but if they are twinks and the players know what they are doing, the run is not unlikely to succeed.</p>
How you can compare both parties with such different compositions? GF's cs + dc buff/debuff was crucial at boss, lmao. They don have to be 3k to provide such buffs (however, BiS players provide better stat buff or spam itf/cs thanks to high recovery).
@sev7nforums There are several reasons for low DPS dealt by 3k+ character - not just only lack of knowledge. I dont "buy" this bitching about elitism. Its simple, you dont want to play with someone? Put him on ignore or dont join/leave party you dont like. Everyone were at 2k but they worked hardly to get new, shiny gear. You will reach 3k someday and what, you gonna HAMSTER about 4k then?
I think it's really funny when people say you have to have 3k to defeat Tiamat, when people on PC were defeating her way back when 3k was just a dream.
When I first got into the Well, the calls for Tiamat were regulary 2.5k+. Now it is not unlikely to see calls for 3k+. This for both the run and Tiamat. And the elitists have their own super-secret channels so they don't have to bother with calling out for either unless they can't get all the bodies they need.
The reason for this is not because of the difficulty of the skirmish, but because you have to have wiggle room. Many Tiamat runs lose up to 1/2 their population after the first cycle. You need a group of beasts to finish the run when the leavers rage quit.
Everyone has own way in doing things, there is no right and wrong here..
If there is Elitism , There should be a term call Noobism for opposite of Elitism as below
1. Value playing skill and believe the game can be completed with minimum dungeon requirement 2. Prefer/do not use any game exploit including class buff stacking or broken encounter 3. Most of time complaint and wonder why the content are difficult and blame elitism for everything. - blame elitism for forcing dev making difficult content - blame elitism for not taking lowbie to party - blame elitism for fast pace runs destroying the fun cox he/she cant keep up
We hardly see any elitism critics blaming anything bout so called legit/noobism. why do legit/noobism people keep pointing fingers at elitism, if a player thinks he/she can out skill the game without BIS by all means do it , prove it and make it happen.
As far as most elitism and myself concerns we just want a smooth run not exactly must be super fast but as smooth as possible, no one wants to stuck outside a boss gate,get wiped repeatedly and spends hours to complete a dungeon.
We cant assume all 4k toon owner is good at the same time we cant assure others that a 2k players can carry own weight.
Lets compare apple to apple both elite and newbie both has good and bad players . If we put two player of same capability side by side , what matter next is the gear and how well his/her role fit into party, so its obvious choice will choose the one with better geared for more assurance.
The way i look at this .... in a situation where you don't know that player,ilvl is a estimation on how committed/experience a player to that toon.
I myself don't mind taking low ilvl person as long as i think it will work out and he/she fits in my party needs, As Queue/Party leader I just want to be as prepared as possible before going difficult dungeons/raid, I was often being accused that i'm elitism for looking for specific class party combination to ensure the run goes smoothly, if that's what it takes do call me Elitism i rather be there than stuck in a fail run and wasted hours of my gaming time.
Post edited by jase2cool on
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
How you can compare both parties with such different compositions? GF's cs + dc buff/debuff was crucial at boss, lmao. They don have to be 3k to provide such buffs (however, BiS players provide better stat buff or spam itf/cs thanks to high recovery).
Yesterday i decided to help a pug group do elol. A TR, GF , CW 1 and CW 2. THey needed a DC. And i had some extra time and patience to help out. So we went in. They would run in, without their GF or me, to take aggro from mobs and die like flies. So i took out my lion companion in order to help the GF. Since it can tank all of the bosses without problems i figured it would help.
So we went in and i i let them explore and run around like bunnies, warned them a few times, but they really did not want to listen.
" You know guys, it would be okay if you actually move out of the red circle on the floor . "
The reply would be : " Why ? You are supposed to keep us alive. You are 3.6 , we do not have to do anything." The funny thing is , it is true. Since i can i should just do the dungeon for them and let them just play around.
After around 45 min we where at the Scorpions. Since they needed some extra time to play with lava pool.
And i told them, look, if you are not sure in yourself, one of CWs can take one Scorpy away and i ll stay with the group. JUst make sure you try to avoid as much red as possible if you do not have my AA on. Or i can take one away but then the rest of you need to be extra careful. And i ll heal you in passing.
They went in like flies without a head. What is a red circle ? That does not exist.
In any case, after i killed the freaking scorpies for them , we went ahead to kill Lostmouth. Let me tell you. Worst 30 mins of my whole week. And you know what, i do not mind doing it 30 min , i do not mind trying out stuff or slowly do something. Or looting everything while fighting. Or even while you afk in the middle of a boss fight.
But their attitude was : " You do it, you are a high level . We do not need to do a HAMSTER , since you are around. " I see it all the time. People not wanting to put in effort. They just want someone else to do it for them. It just reminds me why i do not pug in the first place.
I did a POM run a few days ago. One went AFK for a few minutes I tried to vote kick him. He was one of 3 2-3kish ppl running semipremade. They LOLed about someone trying to kick an AFK player.
We ended with a silver run, no ring for me. I dont mind doing more dmg, then the rest put together, but I would prefer a solo run to running with ppl, who think it is ok, to go AFK and let the others do the work.
If we are voting on entitled idiots, these guys would get my vote.
How you can compare both parties with such different compositions? GF's cs + dc buff/debuff was crucial at boss, lmao. They don have to be 3k to provide such buffs (however, BiS players provide better stat buff or spam itf/cs thanks to high recovery).
That's exactly my point.
Buffers/debuffers. But gear means alot more for DPS class. If some 2k outdps 3k, then 3k is probably bad or have PvP tanky build, like some oppressor CWs. Normal situation is 3k dont have any problem to outdps 2k. 3k mostly has legendary weapon, DF/relic or drowcraft/dust mixes and right bonding pet+insignia bonuses. What can have 2k? Maybe DF gear and epic weapon set at best. Most of them dont have pet with greater+ bondings because it cost alot.
i dunno what's going on PS4, but on PC SW/TR are at the bottom of dpser chart due to bad cryptic decisions in the last modules, therefore you'll allways have to work harder than others to find a party
Although I agree that TRs have to work harder for the DPS they do, the idea that they are at the bottom of DPSers is mainly a perception problem. I've run successful MSVA runs with as many as 5 TRs in the group. MSVA is actually a trial that plays to the strengths of TRs and they can do quite well. All things being equal, there isn't a good reason to not take a TR on these runs.
Lilia Drakon - PVE Executioner TR She Looked Lvl 18
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited December 2016
Here is the ORDER as it should be when forming groups: 1) Play with your friends who you know well. 2) Play with the acquaintenances in your guild or alliance. 3) Select from random people who are qualified for the material.
Here is how the ORDER really is: 1) Play with your friends you know well. 2) If your friends aren't on, wait for some. 3) Wait some more. 4) Play with acquaintenances in your guild or alliance, but only material that you don't really care about. 5) Advertise in looking for group for random people who might help you get through the dungeon without it being a 3-hour tour. Mistakenly think that every 4k person out there is just the solution for not knowing HAMSTER about them. 6) Get screwed over by 4ker who can't play, and take anyone next time. 7) Get a generally new person who doesn't know what they are doing as you run Leroy Jenkins into the first mob. Blame the new person. 8) Repeat steps 6 and 7 until your friends get on. 9) Vow to never PuG again! 10) Make meaningless posts in forums that solve nothing, because we play with our friends and damn the rest.
Here is the ORDER as it should be when forming groups: 1) Play with your friends who you know well. 2) Play with the acquaintenances in your guild or alliance. 3) Select from random people who are qualified for the material.
Here is how the ORDER really is: 1) Play with your friends you know well. 2) If your friends aren't on, wait for some. 3) Wait some more. 4) Play with acquaintenances in your guild or alliance, but only material that you don't really care about. 5) Advertise in looking for group for random people who might help you get through the dungeon without it being a 3-hour tour. Mistakenly think that every 4k person out there is just the solution for not knowing HAMSTER about them. 6) Get screwed over by 4ker who can't play, and take anyone next time. 7) Get a generally new person who doesn't know what they are doing as you run Leroy Jenkins into the first mob. Blame the new person. 8) Repeat steps 6 and 7 until your friends get on. 9) Vow to never PuG again! 10) Make meaningless posts in forums that solve nothing, because we play with our friends and damn the rest.
I pug CN all the time on my pally (3.4k) and come across all kinds of IL. Because I know I can handle the run I'm not bothered by composition or IL but I do take an intellectual interest and inspect everyone.
It's fair to say that most DPS players below 2.5k have poor damage, survivability and tactical awareness. The GF and DC are less dependent on gear for effectiveness but as someone else said, DPS require good power & crit and a high level weapon enchantment to make an effective contribution.
Saying that, I'll happily go through the entire run with them as I understand it helps them learn as well as have some fun.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Comments
Second the game is full of small minded people who's only gold is become the best by the standards settled, no matter what it takes and they dont even ask themselves why, the just go with the flow and focus on understanding that rotation and forget to understand other classes and what's around them, if you want to run content without beeing kicked/misjudged you need:
High IL:
There are several ways to increase your item level at low cost, alsrandomkill explains some in one of his videos if you're interested in see.
Here is my "short" 101 for lfg:
A set people recognize for your class;
The best set for a SW is orcus but the range prices of the set is intolerable, orcus set is not drastic change, it is the best, but the belt of black ice, cloack of black ice and another random artifact make very good performance and it's of wide comunity knowledge that black ice is good for sw.
Dont pick artifacts with defencive stats/recovery, even if your pet has defencive slots, people that see that when you are inside the dungeoun will either forget or dont care, but they WILL judge your artifacts when looking for group.
So a good combination would be DC sigil as main, CW sigil, tiamat's orb of magesty, lantern of revelation.
Armour reeinforcment kits, each one at best tier will give you 35 IL, but warning, once applied it's gone forever, so choose wisely if your equipment will be definitive or not.
Upgrade your artifact equipment to legendary to open the extra enchant slot, if you do that even if you slot a r7, it will be a big boost on your IL.
I ignore all of this, my sw has 3 artifacts of HP, plated band of constitution and some recovery, but i dont lfg anymore, if you do then you should prepare for the elitists
I agree ilvl is not everything and even that a high ilvl toon can have bad build/playing skill but it be always better than a low ilvl toon with bad build/playing skill.
There always be elitism, Let's be fair cant really blame people who looks forward to ilvl most of these people are inexperience as well (not really/barely 3k LF3k+)
These ppl don't know your capability or the owner of 2k ilvl toon, all they can see is your ilvl numbers .
The ilvl indicates the owner's dedication/effort/experience that was put into the toon (can be wrong sometimes)
Everyone wanted a smooth run instead of stuck and gated outside last boss for an hour or so.
Most of the veteran players don't look for ilvl they know exactly what they need, what to do and looks for,
unfortunately most of these people looks for party from guild/alliance/friend list or custom channel which you normally don't see them
As most guys above advised, join good guild do guild/alliance runs and don't pug premade your own team prove to them that you are capable to hold your own weight and more.
Yes, a 4k PVP player with PvP build and spec will most likely get outdpsed by a 3-3.5k PvE player with a good build. I joined a PUG run, CN. By chance it was an alliance group with PvP players, who asked for more runs. My AA righteous DC (3.6k IL) did more dmg then the 2 PvP GWFs (3k+IL) in some runs.
BUT, if your time is limited and you have a BIS or near BIS PvE char, you can save a lot of time by running with similar geared and build ppl. Just read run times and compare them. A group of ppl with good builds, good gear and the right party composition will be done in less then half of the time most other groups will need. TBH a decent group of 4k PvE players will most likely be done in 1/4 th of the time a normal PuG group would need.
I would not kick someone from a PuG run, but I did leave groups, if I was sure, that there is no chance to complete the dungeon.
While there is some elitism and in some chases unfounded, I dont like this trash talk about 4k ppl searching for a group of similar geared players. Yes, I might be able to solo ELOL with my GF or kill Orkus alone with my CW (active companion), but why should I? I spent years gearing up my chars. Refining the build after every change. Reading guides, tips, talking to other players or just testing different builds/ skills/ setups/ rotations. Are there other players with better builds or more skill, I am sure. Can I contribute to a run, I am sure, too. Where is the problem, if ppl prefer to build groups in 'super secret PvE channels' or running premade with like minded friends/ players?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I tend to be selective and such selection is not based on the item level, but on the knowledge of the players I use to play. I also use to join random groups which is a way to filter in and out new players I meet.
If you're a poor player, you're poor regardeless the IL (and SVA is making evident how many bad 4k players are in). Your friend list is the most important thing where you find the friends/players you trust more.
If you are a low IL player, a good guild is the best place to start your friend list.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I remember, that once or twice the random player asked, what he could contribute in our group and the answer was, stay in group, so we can que up and loot the good stuff.
The only problem we had, before personal loot, that for some reason the random player always wins the big ticket items. A friend of mine, who stopped playing more then a year ago, still curses that PuG HR in our ESOT run, who did ca. 40k dmg and won the artifact belt at a time, when they went for 5 kk.
tbh your guidz on the GWF was game changing for me i had these kind of probelms before but what i did is that i started the runs myself and now that i'm well geared i help a lot of players and our guild's unwritten rule is FINISH TOGETHER OR LEAVE TOGETHER unless someone dc for too long or decided to leave other than that i try to link people guides and help them improve that way i made a lot of friends and actully enjoying the game but hearing u say u are laving made me real sad that we are losing such valuable player in the game
Really? How the other normal players get a room to access nsav, ndemo when lfg compare to those elitism guys? :*
Dam, same feeling as finding job in real world, senior vs junior for a simple job offer
I would say that it's less elitism and more of people saying "I'm lazy and don't want to work with people or a team, so I just want them to be super geared so I can do my own thing".
So, pretty much what Rapo said about "how many bad 4k players are in." (Gah... that work analogy hits home super hard, especially for a college kid...)
People below 2.5k will not be able to really contribute well in for instance CN, and really should stay out.
Low-gear people signing up for instances where they have no business and thereby leeching and messing up other peoples game is just as big a problem as elitism. If people made sure they were of sufficient gear to meaningfully contribute in an instance before they joined, actions like votekicking or abandoning group would be much less needed.
So don't blame elitism only on the well-geared players, but also on low-geared opportunists being where they should not be.
The second run had a party where my CW was the only 3k+. It had, however, one GF (2.3k) and a DC (2.8k) who knew what they were doing. The rest of the party was a TR (2.7k) and another CW (2.1k). While paingiver looked pretty much the same after the second run, the end boss was finished much faster and without any deaths at all.
So, your statement might still be valid if the <2.5k are really new PLAYERS who don't know their class mechanic very well, but if they are twinks and the players know what they are doing, the run is not unlikely to succeed.
@sev7nforums
There are several reasons for low DPS dealt by 3k+ character - not just only lack of knowledge. I dont "buy" this bitching about elitism. Its simple, you dont want to play with someone? Put him on ignore or dont join/leave party you dont like. Everyone were at 2k but they worked hardly to get new, shiny gear. You will reach 3k someday and what, you gonna HAMSTER about 4k then?
Everyone has own way in doing things, there is no right and wrong here..
If there is Elitism , There should be a term call Noobism for opposite of Elitism as below
1. Value playing skill and believe the game can be completed with minimum dungeon requirement
2. Prefer/do not use any game exploit including class buff stacking or broken encounter
3. Most of time complaint and wonder why the content are difficult and blame elitism for everything.
- blame elitism for forcing dev making difficult content
- blame elitism for not taking lowbie to party
- blame elitism for fast pace runs destroying the fun cox he/she cant keep up
We hardly see any elitism critics blaming anything bout so called legit/noobism.
why do legit/noobism people keep pointing fingers at elitism, if a player thinks he/she can out skill the game without BIS by all means do it , prove it and make it happen.
As far as most elitism and myself concerns we just want a smooth run not exactly must be super fast but as smooth as possible, no one wants to stuck outside a boss gate,get wiped repeatedly and spends hours to complete a dungeon.
We cant assume all 4k toon owner is good at the same time we cant assure others that a 2k players can carry own weight.
Lets compare apple to apple both elite and newbie both has good and bad players .
If we put two player of same capability side by side , what matter next is the gear and how well his/her role fit into party, so its obvious choice will choose the one with better geared for more assurance.
The way i look at this .... in a situation where you don't know that player,ilvl is a estimation on how committed/experience a player to that toon.
I myself don't mind taking low ilvl person as long as i think it will work out and he/she fits in my party needs,
As Queue/Party leader I just want to be as prepared as possible before going difficult dungeons/raid, I was often being accused that i'm elitism for looking for specific class party combination to ensure the run goes smoothly, if that's what it takes do call me Elitism i rather be there than stuck in a fail run and wasted hours of my gaming time.
Yesterday i decided to help a pug group do elol.
A TR, GF , CW 1 and CW 2. THey needed a DC. And i had some extra time and patience to help out.
So we went in.
They would run in, without their GF or me, to take aggro from mobs and die like flies.
So i took out my lion companion in order to help the GF.
Since it can tank all of the bosses without problems i figured it would help.
So we went in and i i let them explore and run around like bunnies, warned them a few times, but they really did not want to listen.
" You know guys, it would be okay if you actually move out of the red circle on the floor . "
The reply would be : " Why ? You are supposed to keep us alive. You are 3.6 , we do not have to do anything."
The funny thing is , it is true.
Since i can i should just do the dungeon for them and let them just play around.
After around 45 min we where at the Scorpions. Since they needed some extra time to play with lava pool.
And i told them, look, if you are not sure in yourself, one of CWs can take one Scorpy away and i ll stay with the group. JUst make sure you try to avoid as much red as possible if you do not have my AA on.
Or i can take one away but then the rest of you need to be extra careful. And i ll heal you in passing.
They went in like flies without a head. What is a red circle ? That does not exist.
In any case, after i killed the freaking scorpies for them , we went ahead to kill Lostmouth.
Let me tell you. Worst 30 mins of my whole week.
And you know what, i do not mind doing it 30 min , i do not mind trying out stuff or slowly do something. Or looting everything while fighting. Or even while you afk in the middle of a boss fight.
But their attitude was : " You do it, you are a high level . We do not need to do a HAMSTER , since you are around. "
I see it all the time.
People not wanting to put in effort.
They just want someone else to do it for them.
It just reminds me why i do not pug in the first place.
We ended with a silver run, no ring for me. I dont mind doing more dmg, then the rest put together, but I would prefer a solo run to running with ppl, who think it is ok, to go AFK and let the others do the work.
If we are voting on entitled idiots, these guys would get my vote.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
1) Play with your friends who you know well.
2) Play with the acquaintenances in your guild or alliance.
3) Select from random people who are qualified for the material.
Here is how the ORDER really is:
1) Play with your friends you know well.
2) If your friends aren't on, wait for some.
3) Wait some more.
4) Play with acquaintenances in your guild or alliance, but only material that you don't really care about.
5) Advertise in looking for group for random people who might help you get through the dungeon without it being a 3-hour tour. Mistakenly think that every 4k person out there is just the solution for not knowing HAMSTER about them.
6) Get screwed over by 4ker who can't play, and take anyone next time.
7) Get a generally new person who doesn't know what they are doing as you run Leroy Jenkins into the first mob. Blame the new person.
8) Repeat steps 6 and 7 until your friends get on.
9) Vow to never PuG again!
10) Make meaningless posts in forums that solve nothing, because we play with our friends and damn the rest.
Merry Christmas!
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
It's fair to say that most DPS players below 2.5k have poor damage, survivability and tactical awareness. The GF and DC are less dependent on gear for effectiveness but as someone else said, DPS require good power & crit and a high level weapon enchantment to make an effective contribution.
Saying that, I'll happily go through the entire run with them as I understand it helps them learn as well as have some fun.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox