@polaris1986 It's a very good analysis to remark that even if the system recognize classes in a better matched role, then players need to recogize it too !
It's an interesting idea to make roles visible through icones.
Thing is, I'm not conviced that visibility of roles is the root causes of current problems, I think it's deeper when I see that :
Players can finish the game alone
Players can solo dungeons
Players talk about 1vs1 in PvP
I find it absurd and that it's a problem, because it mean roles have nearly no distinctions ( as "every classes lack nearly nothing/can do everything" ).
If roles effectiveness was reduced for classes who aren't meant for it ( at least for collaborative game types ), therefore dev's as players would pay more thought. A good start would be a discussion about what roles are, to decide their specificity ( for effectivness ).
There are four major party roles in 4th edition (which is what Neverwinter is based on, although the devs are now adding in elements of 5th edition): Leader, Controller, Defender and Striker.
Striker is pretty straightforward, their job is to kill things. In Neverwinter, strikers are all about the DPS.
A Controller's job is to partially nullify incoming damage (disables) or affect the field in such a way that their allies gain an advantage against their enemies (the old Arcane Singularity + nuke spam strategy). In Neverwinter this is currently the most controversial role because it's difficult to balance disables with DPS - too much (pre-mod 3 CWs had so much DPS there was really no point in controlling stuff... or bringing most other classes along) or too little (FBI monster control immunity) of either causes problems.
A Defender's job is simply to manage aggro. For obvious reasons, having good survivability helps with that. In Neverwinter Defender classes usually also have some combination of leader or striker abilities, to make bringing a GF/OP along appealing even if you don't actually need one.
A Leader's job is to act as a damage multiplier. That's the whole point of bringing one along - if your party has 2 strikers, for example, then getting a third striker will result in your group having the equivalent of three strikers. If you get a leader, however, then you potentially have the equivalent of four or even more strikers. This is done through powerful party buffs or enemy debuffs. Healing/damage mitigation is usually part of a Leader class' job simply because dead players have zero DPS. That's really all there is to it. For obvious reasons, a Leader class CANNOT be good at anything else because this would seriously imbalance a class. A Leader is already a multiplier - if it can also function as a full striker/defender/controller, then why even bother bringing those along? If you look at the Righteous DC, for example, you'll notice that ALMOST ALL of its buffs/debuffs also affects teammates - so if your striker is being beaten by a Righteous DC then either the striker is undergeared or something is terribly wrong. In Neverwinter DCs are a bit controversial atm because of AA and power stacking, though many veteran DC players already understand that changes to that power (among other things) are inevitable once the devs go over the class.
What gives classes/builds diversity is that certain classes/class paths usually provide feats that mimic the abilities of another role, and if you combine some of these with the right group then your dungeon run should end up smoother. A party that doesn't need as much healing will obviously find a Righteous DC more useful than a Virtuous/Faithful DC, for example. For the record though, the devs are still working on balancing that.
Anyway therein lies the problem with the Temptation Warlock. Unless you are willing to let your capstone reduce your overall damage so you basically deal as much damage as a cleric (at least in parties) then you will never have access to the same powerful party buffs that true Leader classes have. There's a reason why the warlock only has one significant party buff power (Circle of Power, and that's only for HB) while DCs have a grand total of 6 (Hallowed Ground, Forgemaster's Flame, Break the Spirit, Divine Glow, Prophecy of Doom, Hastening Light). I invite you to dwell on just how wide the gap in buffing capabilities is between the two classes. As things are, a Temptation Warlock stacking power should still manage to do respectable DPS with Dark Revelry and feats from the other trees. With some planning, stacking power/lifesteal is not mutually exclusive, so while you're doing that you'll also heal like a maniac.
Solo PvE content is a different animal, in no small part because of the fact that at high item levels several class builds can get pretty broken (hence the ability of some people to solo dungeons). Companions are also a factor, and in a balanced world no companion half your level should be able to tank a prince of demons. Still, ANY class can tackle solo content. Any player who has done their research will tell you the same thing, and a quick check of exhaustive player guides should confirm this. Even non-Righteous DCs can easily deal with solo content, the problem of course is that some DCs/OPs/etc specifically gear/stat for parties, ignoring important solo stats like ArP and completely neglecting important solo powers. That obviously doesn't work well for solo, but that's more of a price you pay for your focus.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
it is an impossible nonsense. the only thing that you will achieve your post - that's what healing / support warlock will be in line to take the place of the healer, not having this capability. decision in fact there are simple: two skills should improve. 1 Skill temporal life must give more of them, (and by the way he is now broken and worked poorly compared to M10) 2 - Skill on blades - should provide increased resistance to all your friends who are in the zone of action and a lot more than they do now - so warlock tank will be able to save from Shots 3 finally - how to fix the very pillar, and the skill at her - she did not increase the resistance - and does not increase. 4 - still add some - some way (it is possible even in the latter skill) level of the life steal of the sorcerer - is the main stat in a branch, which required the sorcerer, but in addition to it, we need the power and penetration, unlike other healers who for the sake of treatment can only maximize power and have still a lot of options to other articles. and our three - are required, without them we are not healers, so facilitating reception of one article - would greatly simplify development path
There are four major party roles in 4th edition (which is what Neverwinter is based on, although the devs are now adding in elements of 5th edition): Leader, Controller, Defender and Striker.
Striker is pretty straightforward, their job is to kill things. In Neverwinter, strikers are all about the DPS.
A Controller's job is to partially nullify incoming damage (disables) or affect the field in such a way that their allies gain an advantage against their enemies (the old Arcane Singularity + nuke spam strategy). In Neverwinter this is currently the most controversial role because it's difficult to balance disables with DPS - too much (pre-mod 3 CWs had so much DPS there was really no point in controlling stuff... or bringing most other classes along) or too little (FBI monster control immunity) of either causes problems.
A Defender's job is simply to manage aggro. For obvious reasons, having good survivability helps with that. In Neverwinter Defender classes usually also have some combination of leader or striker abilities, to make bringing a GF/OP along appealing even if you don't actually need one.
A Leader's job is to act as a damage multiplier. That's the whole point of bringing one along - if your party has 2 strikers, for example, then getting a third striker will result in your group having the equivalent of three strikers. If you get a leader, however, then you potentially have the equivalent of four or even more strikers. This is done through powerful party buffs or enemy debuffs. Healing/damage mitigation is usually part of a Leader class' job simply because dead players have zero DPS. That's really all there is to it. For obvious reasons, a Leader class CANNOT be good at anything else because this would seriously imbalance a class. A Leader is already a multiplier - if it can also function as a full striker/defender/controller, then why even bother bringing those along? If you look at the Righteous DC, for example, you'll notice that ALMOST ALL of its buffs/debuffs also affects teammates - so if your striker is being beaten by a Righteous DC then either the striker is undergeared or something is terribly wrong. In Neverwinter DCs are a bit controversial atm because of AA and power stacking, though many veteran DC players already understand that changes to that power (among other things) are inevitable once the devs go over the class.
What gives classes/builds diversity is that certain classes/class paths usually provide feats that mimic the abilities of another role, and if you combine some of these with the right group then your dungeon run should end up smoother. A party that doesn't need as much healing will obviously find a Righteous DC more useful than a Virtuous/Faithful DC, for example. For the record though, the devs are still working on balancing that.
Anyway therein lies the problem with the Temptation Warlock. Unless you are willing to let your capstone reduce your overall damage so you basically deal as much damage as a cleric (at least in parties) then you will never have access to the same powerful party buffs that true Leader classes have. There's a reason why the warlock only has one significant party buff power (Circle of Power, and that's only for HB) while DCs have a grand total of 6 (Hallowed Ground, Forgemaster's Flame, Break the Spirit, Divine Glow, Prophecy of Doom, Hastening Light). I invite you to dwell on just how wide the gap in buffing capabilities is between the two classes. As things are, a Temptation Warlock stacking power should still manage to do respectable DPS with Dark Revelry and feats from the other trees. With some planning, stacking power/lifesteal is not mutually exclusive, so while you're doing that you'll also heal like a maniac.
Solo PvE content is a different animal, in no small part because of the fact that at high item levels several class builds can get pretty broken (hence the ability of some people to solo dungeons). Companions are also a factor, and in a balanced world no companion half your level should be able to tank a prince of demons. Still, ANY class can tackle solo content. Any player who has done their research will tell you the same thing, and a quick check of exhaustive player guides should confirm this. Even non-Righteous DCs can easily deal with solo content, the problem of course is that some DCs/OPs/etc specifically gear/stat for parties, ignoring important solo stats like ArP and completely neglecting important solo powers. That obviously doesn't work well for solo, but that's more of a price you pay for your focus.
I read in a post from devs month ago that they had "special plans" for the Temptation tree, that´s why they did not take care of it during rebalance pre mod 10. I guess it was written by amenar or someone else.
Warlock is said to be a striker/leader and temptation seems to be the leader tree of that class. So my conclusion for a rebalance is either lift temptations damage and let him be a striker with a some leader options, maybe balance that capstone (nonesense scaling at higher gear), or give him a push towards the leader role by improving the tierfeats 4/5 and capstone and maybe do some rework of powers like vampiric embrace, wich are unpopular for striker --> VE could buff group HP or spend mitigation etc. Balancing those powers might be sufficient to get things in line
Apart from that, I agree about the DC and a needed overlook of that class, fixes and balancing are needed by sure, AA gives full immunity to your group, powerbuffing is far above everything other classes can provide and those buffs like 40% + damage and 40% debuff (other classes got them too) are over the top imo. The devteams in further mods did soo much wrong by implenting that kind of buffs to many classes. Lifting party damage by 200% from AA+BtS+powerbuffs+debuffs ... there is no way to balance other classes or trees on a same level. Same as they should take care of GWF and feats like steely defence and disciple of war wich gives a 2.5k GWF the stats of a compareable 3k+ class by lifting his power stupidly. My GWF can slot rank 3x12 azures into a maxed companions defence slots 3x700x2.85, slot defense boon 8k, in the end he get´s pushed for a significant ammount of power, his classfeature weapon mastery + offhand feat is near plus 20% critchance infight on top. Feats that buff your power for silly ammounts getting more every mod, and buffs/feature that spend 20%+ crit, 40% damage+, 40% debuff, 100% immunity... No clue who did those concepts but they were proven to be wrong.
I don´t think it´s a very complicated task to improve things/classes. I can´t understand this company. Why do things take that long? I can´t understand what focus cryptic/PWE has got, but they obviously do not focus on things to improve the game experience.
So we have a problem, people can't see us as Healer.
It think will be good if near to character's icon in party will be some mark of Healer or supporter identification. //cut//
I think that's a great idea. This icon, could also tell the queue what your role is and what to consider you by. Inputting this icon could be restricted by feats. For example, only a temptation warlock who has taken temptation capstone can use the supporter icon and queue as a support.
So if the SW was to be a leader on temptation, do you think anything needs to change for them to be able to take that mantle? If we were to lower the damage on the SW temptation, it's healing would also decrease along with it.
Thanks for the replies
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Yesterday I tried CN in duo with my 2,5k temptation warlock and a similarly geared CW oppressor. We both have bondings but only rank 7s/8s enchants on both PC and companion.
I mostly did that to test what kind of performance a temptation can have. The impressions I got are: - healing is massive. With BoVA, PoP and VE you can outheal everything that doesn't one-shot you. I'm pretty much convinced I can outheal even Hati's dot (but can't enter FBI yet with this toon). - tanking/damage debuffing on monsters is good. I tanked everything except Orcus. With PoP on the ground I can tank Glabrezus and even the Balor (albeit I need the HP guild boon for the latter). - damage is decent for a full heal/debuff rotation (pretty much the same of the oppressor running with me, way better than a support DC) - damage buff: low, far far away from a DC - ability to avoid one shots: low
The last point is what makes the SW temptation a bad replacement for a DC with the current meta in the difficult stuff, as most monsters can one/two shot everything. Less buff may only be an issue of time in completing content, but if can't prevent continuous one-shots then you can't replace a DC. It would be cool to have an aura that changes all enemy damage into a dot instead of making it applied instantly. In that way you have a chance to outheal it, but you need to position yourself properly.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@gabrieldourden I've come to the same conclusion, that CN is okay with 2.5k templock and similar IL party.
I'm doing nearly the same, except that I've exchanged the tanking of BoVA for the CC & dps (AoE) of AoH. (With a Lathander Set & Soulforged armor enchant, the party and I can do some mistakes without meaning a party death.)
@gabrieldourden I've come to the same conclusion, that CN is okay with 2.5k templock and similar IL party.
I'm doing nearly the same, except that I've exchanged the tanking of BoVA for the CC & dps (AoE) of AoH. (With a Lathander Set & Soulforged armor enchant, the party and I can do some mistakes without meaning a party death.)
It would be cool to have an aura that changes all enemy damage into a dot instead of making it applied instantly.
Great great idea ! Perfectly in the spirit of the SW DoT's ^^
Fully agree on what you say. I did CN in trio with a 3.1k ranger and a 3,2k SW Fury and it was a breeze even without a tank. AoH is good for control. I often use BoVA, PoP and AoH (I prefer BoVA to VE as it goes on working even if I'm dazed/stunned). I didn't do that with the oppressor as he provided enough control on what could be controlled so I focused on healing, but see your point. Lathander+Soulforged is the way to go for a tanky melee build like this one.
Post edited by gabrieldourden on
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I realize now that it's harder to judge a class potential by iLV only when bondings account so much of your total stats. I'm 3.4k ilv and I have no bondings and I'm certain that your 2.5k character upkeeps more stats with high rank bondings than mines.
That could explain the gap as to why I wasn't able to complete content as easily as most of you mentionned to me before. However I don't think owning bondings should be a requirement to be successful with a class to run a dungeon with a group. So even if bondings = ok, no bondings = fail, I still believe we have a problem. The massive boons offered by max level guilds are similarly overpowered.
Bondings are out of reach of alot of players because of their high price, and most players aren't in maxed guilds. That's why a new-ish player without boons nor bondings will have a vastly different performance than experienced players with bondings and boons, at the same item lvl.
Anyways, let me know what you think, Thanks
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
null You nailed it but unless you play mostly pvp, it's a problem on the contrary imho..
The game on ps4 is 3 month old, and you already see people with insane ilvl...
When you need these ilvl items, you actually have a reason to play but when your artifacts and runes/enchants are max , whats the point to keep playing ? ( pve i mean ) You run the same dunjeons you already have but it's easier, that's all
This might have already been covered but I think they need to nerf all self healing stats/gear. Healing is almost irrelevant in NW and why Temptation will never be desirable. I'd love to see a NW where healers are a necessity.
Bondings are out of reach of alot of players because of their high price, and most players aren't in maxed guilds. That's why a new-ish player without boons nor bondings will have a vastly different performance than experienced players with bondings and boons, at the same item lvl.
Bonding aren't THAT expensive (at least not lesser ones).
In NWO players have to do their own tests and analysis to be able to perform. Therefore new-ish players are in hell if their class is complexe and not the best performer ( like SW ... ).
More or less in following performance order
Campaing boons
Guild boons
Compagnon Bonding & (augment)
Set's, Rings specfic power, armor/weapon enchants
Mounts bonus & Insigna's power
Classic equipment and enchant
Base powers
Normally the more high level to to reach a bonus is, then the lower effect it should have. In NWO not only it's the contrary but I'm affraid it's exponential.
But fix these sick bonus would meed/force a good balancing of classes, mobs and instances ; otherwise over&under-powered elements will be obvious.
My 2.5 IL GWF with maxed bondings is arround 60k power and 22k+ crit as far as i remenber...
Exactly. My warlocks tops 22k power and 12k crit usually
@duckntroll Lesser ones don't matter for much though. 60% vs 285% is an obviously big gap.
And how much each aspect their end game content contributes to performance, that's their game design, which is well and all that, but there's still room for improvement in class aspects, as you can't expect everyone to know everything.
To me, making campaigns, bondings, guilds, etc, mandatory to be able to successfully run a dungeon at it's suggested iLV with a specific class (SW Temp for example) is a big flaw that needs to be adressed.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
My 2.5 IL GWF with maxed bondings is arround 60k power and 22k+ crit as far as i remenber...
Exactly. My warlocks tops 22k power and 12k crit usually
@duckntroll Lesser ones don't matter for much though. 60% vs 285% is an obviously big gap.
And how much each aspect their end game content contributes to performance, that's their game design, which is well and all that, but there's still room for improvement in class aspects, as you can't expect everyone to know everything.
To me, making campaigns, bondings, guilds, etc, mandatory to be able to successfully run a dungeon at it's suggested iLV with a specific class (SW Temp for example) is a big flaw that needs to be adressed.
I have only 1 normal bonding stone and yet I had no complain when comes healing. And as I wrote in older post manage to ashame heal DC. So I wondering do runestone is major reason why your temp sw healing is not so good as others..
I am curious about your current temp sw stats. Also gear, mount + insignias, companions, guild boons..
When I posted mod 10 temp HB build. I used non twisted weapon set. Thats mean I didn't had high power, but yet in fights most of time I had stable 20k power and with single bonding runestone enabled combo with dark revelry + insignia effects + rampaging madness + elvish fury + power food I could get more than 24k power.
With current twisted set without potions, without guild boons, without food without bonding I can hit 22k power easily.. So my friend what kind build do u have??
U don't like run dungeon solo with temp SW? Try run with pure heal build DC. I had such heal DC, but reworked slighgly to import some buffs in its gameplay, and latter still reworked to warehouse..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I'll post my stats in a moment. A side note about bondings: they are an extremely good investment. You can move them from one character to another one at the cost of 3 gold which is basically nothing and get a very nice stat boost all time.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
They're also potentially cheaper if you buy them off the zen store, especially during sales. Note that most zen companions come with a free lesser bonding and you can simply sell the companion if you don't need it to make the most out of the deal.. Sometimes bonding prices will drop during events or when they show up in lockboxes.
Always remember that the game gives you plenty of tools to get what you need, you just need to be able to figure it out. People will rarely tell you what to do and (more often than not, perhaps to protect their own interests) might even spread misinformation on purpose, but that's how things work.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
I'll post my stats in a moment. A side note about bondings: they are an extremely good investment. You can move them from one character to another one at the cost of 3 gold which is basically nothing and get a very nice stat boost all time.
I was aiming to @denvald to show up his warlocks data here in forum/this thread. But as always u had to grab his tongue and and force to tell you any answer in your questions.. And thats kinda annoying... I am not active as before, but still time to time check whats new here..
This might have already been covered but I think they need to nerf all self healing stats/gear. Healing is almost irrelevant in NW and why Temptation will never be desirable. I'd love to see a NW where healers are a necessity.
Healers are required less because game difficulity now is in shamefull level. All classes are way way way overbuffed.Dmg outputs are to high. Why devs cut old dungeons? Only because it where pointless keep dungeons which could be cleared in moments with little efforts. So they cut them so they could buff monsters, adjust/change drop and present them back in some time.. But as how game goes,, It will never happens that they would bring us back at least 60% of old dungeons. Because even now, "epic" dungeons require rebalancing again.
Some say that this new dungeon is hard.. Perhaps, but I heard that this dungeon is still more like trolling rather than challange.
Here I link video, of game which I played some time ago. There u can see what I can reall boss fight.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@ironzerg79 I'm trying to post my stats here but always get a message saying that my post will be published after review. Can you help me?
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I'll post my stats in a moment. A side note about bondings: they are an extremely good investment. You can move them from one character to another one at the cost of 3 gold which is basically nothing and get a very nice stat boost all time.
I was aiming to @denvald to show up his warlocks data here in forum/this thread. But as always u had to grab his tongue and and force to tell you any answer in your questions.. And thats kinda annoying... I am not active as before, but still time to time check whats new here..
Errrmm, sorry if I caused any issue.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Note: I don't know how the new forum works for posting pictures
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
As you can see there's a lot of room for improvement. I still have the elemental weapons, all stuff is purple and the neckpiece is still blue (will be purple later today). Companions are what I scraped off my main, the paranoid delusion I got from VIP. The mount is the Chult Leopard (2k recovery) I bought as account-wide mount a long time ago. Enchants are rank 7 and 8, lesser soulforged. The only powerful thing is the Transcendent Feytouched I moved here from my main HR when I got the new Dread.
I have all campaigns completed boons-wise except Tyranny (5 boons out of 7) and SKT (two boons so far).
Post edited by gabrieldourden on
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Note: I don't know how the new forum works for posting pictures
IF I remember you in older post claimed that you had problem keep partyt members alive in certain epic dungeons... I assume your provided stats are when your temp sw is in idle(non combat) mode, without any buff been triggered(potions/rampaging madness, elvish fury, etc. So with your stats is almost impossible to fail keep party members alive in any eDungeon. With such stats u should be able stand in front of tiamat, giving middle finger and she would not be able kill you neither any other player in your healing area. More less u should be unrivaled field healer. Only downside I can see that u have low def, and deflect stats.. So I can see that your life steal comes from stronghold boon. ITs good stuff, but thats also downside. Firstly even aura of despair reduce enemies outgoing damage by percentage, your own damage resist stats are low.. All your build is very good for fury builds. I mean its close or not msot common glass canon setup. Which is just all stuffs goes to improve offensive stats, and have 0 investment in survivability...
But I can't judge for that,, everyone have own gmaplay/gamestyle...
So far I can see only 2 reasons why your temp sw could fail to heal party in epic dungeons, eDemo, tiamat or dragonflight or Heroic encoutners fights.. 1) you using more burst like damage encounters (killing flame, fiery bolt, arm of hadar, gates of hell) which mean u have burst like healing when triggering life steal effect which I assume u have like more than 50% chance... 2) party members are glasscanon set up, and faill or not even try use dodging mechanics and eat all incoming hits.. Such gameplay focused party require top end healer and even them its hard to keep them alive...
Also you should understand that with your current build u have more chance get in party than heal DC... Why? Firstly not only u have high healing capabilites, you also have high dps capabilities which heal focused DC don't have.. Same goes for buff dc, he perhaps have more buffing factors, but your dps + heal + buff + debuff combo would make more desired in party...
If u used BoVa + PoP + hadar grasp + hellish rebuke U need only up 5k life steal... Which mean 45% is more than enough to make continuous healing.. But with your current stats u can have same as heal DC's burst like healing... To be fair with such stats u should be able take Edungeons solo...
p.s why u using drowned weapon set?? U are temp HB, so healing should not be problem, and better would be to pick twisted to get even higher offensive stats...
@gabrieldourden Well that can I say,, with your stats same as @denvald U should be able easily take major He's without big problems, take dungeons(epic) solo or duo without problems. Stats already are far higher than required. Only matters remain in gameplay..
p.s this post valdation/checking requirement is really annoying one.... Its work simple,, if u add certain words in your comment,, due censorship it must be checked. To be fair, I think every class forum should have own sub moderator or something.. Because I think current moderators can't handle them all... Or they should give up on this feature...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@bloodyspamer : as you say I have no problems in carrying parties in eDungeons. The only exceptions are Orcus (depends on the tank) and I guess FBI as there's too much one-shotting there, which is still the weak point of a temptation warlock. Damage bursts are basically what the temptation warlock is still not able to deal with, even if I run full damage debuff (including Feytouched). By the way I alway run with PoP and BoVa and change the third power depending on the situation. Arms of Hadar on mob groups, while on bosses I'm still trying to find the best one (Vampiric Embrace, Warlock's Bargain and Dreadtheft are the ones I'm looking at).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Water weapons - I still do pvp.. I'll craft the new weapons for my main eventually that's why I decided to skip twisted. About the time I was going to get them the new weapons went up on preview so I decided to pass on it.
My encounter powers change for each dungeon and situation. Solo'ing, T1s and etos, T2s and CN, etc, I use what's best for the group I am with.
Lastly, I was mostly worried about warlocks like me who are lower iLV. I have no problem with any dungeon or group content until I hit Orcus the CN boss, and I dont know yet how it'll look like in FBI cause I haven't had the chance to do that yet.
@gabrieldourden I suppose iLV really lost it's meaning, because your warlock at 2.5k has more stats than mines thanks to bondings . Too many things in this game account for your character's power and are not included in item level, it's difficult to judge only by looking at item levels anymore.
Side note: The reason I don't have bondings yet is because I focused on things I can bring in domination first. However the next thing I'm buying is gunna be bondings, until the next 2x RP, then I should be close to 4k ilv.
2nd Side note: The reason I'm playing temptation with high dps now is for HEs. Now I don't have to worry as much as our group not running with another healer and dying all the time. It makes my time running HEs smoother. I'm likely jumping back to Fury when I'm done with HEs, awaiting any change for temptation to come back to it.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
@bloodyspamer : as you say I have no problems in carrying parties in eDungeons. The only exceptions are Orcus (depends on the tank) and I guess FBI as there's too much one-shotting there, which is still the weak point of a temptation warlock. Damage bursts are basically what the temptation warlock is still not able to deal with, even if I run full damage debuff (including Feytouched). By the way I alway run with PoP and BoVa and change the third power depending on the situation. Arms of Hadar on mob groups, while on bosses I'm still trying to find the best one (Vampiric Embrace, Warlock's Bargain and Dreadtheft are the ones I'm looking at).
Well if I remember to carrying party through CN is not hard stuff, only hard if they are group hot headed kids who fight with zero brain activity. Also orcus is tough, but yet have zero brain activity. So unless devs updated him(dropped brain in his head) than take CN dungeon as measurement of healers is useless. I think eGwD is one of hardest eDungeons which had to run with temp dungeon. And I mean final boss. I had hard time with heal DC there, same where with temp when had undergeared party.
Burst damage indeed is hard to deal, but its mostly depend on party members builds. Lot of players pick glasscanon builds, come to dungeon with def to up ~4k and hope that they can hold line. So without buff DC which can buff their defensive stats, its almost impossible to keep them alive. Also somehow players tend to miss or don't even bother to dodge incoming hits. which also bring bit headpain.
Hmm, warlock bargain is great encounter for boss fight, due its dot nature, HP draining and restoring your own, and mostly that you redirect 15% of its incoming damage to WB affected one. DT i would pick only over BoVa and only if fight in close range is impossible. Like Orcus. But still its not like best option. I think its better WB + PoP + HG/KF for dps, + hellish rebuke with flame of empowerment feature + hand of blight.
So u cast PoP to get buff> cast WB for dps and its benefits> HG for DoT like dps, on top cast Hellish rebuke for extra DoT + trigger flame of empowerment stacks, and on top add hand of blight effect. IF u go with DT, than it goes like PoP + Hellish rebuke(flame empowerment) + WB >DT and mostly after than u have to repeat.
On top have to remember that we have daily powers, which depend on which power sets we use and what we want from them. If I want extra survivability than definatly have to use brood of hadar due its damage reduction feature.. If Dps, TC or FoP is good option. Probably wondering why I don't pick Vampiric? Probably because when you fight single boss, its better have strong DoT like damage to have fast continious healing. Its not like orcus hit 2 times per second.... Also only paper/glass tanks die from 1 or 2 slaps.. I with PoP buff alone can hold 2 hits*(HP potion). Also need to remember that temp sw healing comes from damage..
Anyways I have plans after returning back from vacation slightly change my build, perhaps even add Hellish Condemnation feat, which: Targets affected by your Hellish Rebuke atwill deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage., But its still not clear does it reduce damage over all, or just for my warlock only.... IF its do reduce overall, imagine to combine with aura of despair. U get 15% damage reduction or from other view point 15% damage resistance. And if your sw had problem to survive add> Warding Curse feature. So your sw get extra 4% damage ressitance from ccursed enemies(wondering does Lesser curse counts too.)
So more less its still not all stuffs I have tested. There are possible optimisation for temp sw with current feats. However certain powers I would like to be replaced within temp tree, like Eldritch Momentum and Soul Breaker. THey are kinda useless. Eldritch momentum maybe would be ok for damnation, fury but not for temp.. We don't run from enemies to survive, we run in them and steal life in order to survive... Soul breaker where for mod4 and mod5, but not with current 4x time higher ap regeneration ratio compared to mod 5.
@denvald hmm, pvp is hard stuff for temp, because its have lowest dps rates compared to damnation and fury. SOmehow I still do think twisted would be better. Because as support u have healing features, and they are as good as u have good dps. But I can't argue much about that, because I give up on pvp since mod 7 release.
Anyways, looks like once again, if I stop write in this thread, its die. Nothing happening.... Its seems like I had to write possible temp feat rework..... :P
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Have you guys actually tried damage debuffs (Wraith's Shadow, artifact empowered Hand of Blight, Pillar of Power) against bosses? Because in my own personal experience its against solo mobs that Temptlocks really shine because their enemy damage output-reduction powers come into full play. I've seen a Temptlock basically cut Orcus' damage down to half, and after wiping once vs the green orbs we managed to beat him on the next try without incident.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
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Have you guys actually tried damage debuffs (Wraith's Shadow, artifact empowered Hand of Blight, Pillar of Power) against bosses? Because in my own personal experience its against solo mobs that Temptlocks really shine because their enemy damage out reduction powers come into full play. I've seen a Temptlock basically cut Orcus' damage down to half, and after wiping once vs the green orbs we managed to beat him on the next try without incident.
I use wraith of shadow, time to time. PoP and Hand of blight is my main tools. And on top u can drop daily power Brood of hadar.
As for green orbs/death spheres. There is simple tactic. When orcus rise his arms and start to charge his aoe or other powers, split group in room, don't stay in one or two groups. And when runing away from spheres don't run in other party members. Kite/lure them around in free space its not hard and also they are for short time duration.
Mostly players faill orcus due brainless gameplay or due panic.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Have you guys actually tried damage debuffs (Wraith's Shadow, artifact empowered Hand of Blight, Pillar of Power) against bosses? Because in my own personal experience its against solo mobs that Temptlocks really shine because their enemy damage out reduction powers come into full play. I've seen a Temptlock basically cut Orcus' damage down to half, and after wiping once vs the green orbs we managed to beat him on the next try without incident.
I was actually planning to do that, but I miss a few power points, eventually I'll get around to trying wraith's shadow.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Comments
It's an interesting idea to make roles visible through icones.
Thing is, I'm not conviced that visibility of roles is the root causes of current problems, I think it's deeper when I see that :
- Players can finish the game alone
- Players can solo dungeons
- Players talk about 1vs1 in PvP
I find it absurd and that it's a problem, because it mean roles have nearly no distinctions ( as "every classes lack nearly nothing/can do everything" ).If roles effectiveness was reduced for classes who aren't meant for it ( at least for collaborative game types ), therefore dev's as players would pay more thought. A good start would be a discussion about what roles are, to decide their specificity ( for effectivness ).
Striker is pretty straightforward, their job is to kill things.
In Neverwinter, strikers are all about the DPS.
A Controller's job is to partially nullify incoming damage (disables) or affect the field in such a way that their allies gain an advantage against their enemies (the old Arcane Singularity + nuke spam strategy).
In Neverwinter this is currently the most controversial role because it's difficult to balance disables with DPS - too much (pre-mod 3 CWs had so much DPS there was really no point in controlling stuff... or bringing most other classes along) or too little (FBI monster control immunity) of either causes problems.
A Defender's job is simply to manage aggro. For obvious reasons, having good survivability helps with that.
In Neverwinter Defender classes usually also have some combination of leader or striker abilities, to make bringing a GF/OP along appealing even if you don't actually need one.
A Leader's job is to act as a damage multiplier. That's the whole point of bringing one along - if your party has 2 strikers, for example, then getting a third striker will result in your group having the equivalent of three strikers. If you get a leader, however, then you potentially have the equivalent of four or even more strikers. This is done through powerful party buffs or enemy debuffs.
Healing/damage mitigation is usually part of a Leader class' job simply because dead players have zero DPS. That's really all there is to it.
For obvious reasons, a Leader class CANNOT be good at anything else because this would seriously imbalance a class. A Leader is already a multiplier - if it can also function as a full striker/defender/controller, then why even bother bringing those along?
If you look at the Righteous DC, for example, you'll notice that ALMOST ALL of its buffs/debuffs also affects teammates - so if your striker is being beaten by a Righteous DC then either the striker is undergeared or something is terribly wrong.
In Neverwinter DCs are a bit controversial atm because of AA and power stacking, though many veteran DC players already understand that changes to that power (among other things) are inevitable once the devs go over the class.
What gives classes/builds diversity is that certain classes/class paths usually provide feats that mimic the abilities of another role, and if you combine some of these with the right group then your dungeon run should end up smoother. A party that doesn't need as much healing will obviously find a Righteous DC more useful than a Virtuous/Faithful DC, for example. For the record though, the devs are still working on balancing that.
Anyway therein lies the problem with the Temptation Warlock. Unless you are willing to let your capstone reduce your overall damage so you basically deal as much damage as a cleric (at least in parties) then you will never have access to the same powerful party buffs that true Leader classes have. There's a reason why the warlock only has one significant party buff power (Circle of Power, and that's only for HB) while DCs have a grand total of 6 (Hallowed Ground, Forgemaster's Flame, Break the Spirit, Divine Glow, Prophecy of Doom, Hastening Light). I invite you to dwell on just how wide the gap in buffing capabilities is between the two classes.
As things are, a Temptation Warlock stacking power should still manage to do respectable DPS with Dark Revelry and feats from the other trees. With some planning, stacking power/lifesteal is not mutually exclusive, so while you're doing that you'll also heal like a maniac.
Solo PvE content is a different animal, in no small part because of the fact that at high item levels several class builds can get pretty broken (hence the ability of some people to solo dungeons). Companions are also a factor, and in a balanced world no companion half your level should be able to tank a prince of demons.
Still, ANY class can tackle solo content. Any player who has done their research will tell you the same thing, and a quick check of exhaustive player guides should confirm this. Even non-Righteous DCs can easily deal with solo content, the problem of course is that some DCs/OPs/etc specifically gear/stat for parties, ignoring important solo stats like ArP and completely neglecting important solo powers.
That obviously doesn't work well for solo, but that's more of a price you pay for your focus.
1 Skill temporal life must give more of them, (and by the way he is now broken and worked poorly compared to M10)
2 - Skill on blades - should provide increased resistance to all your friends who are in the zone of action and a lot more than they do now - so warlock tank will be able to save from Shots
3 finally - how to fix the very pillar, and the skill at her - she did not increase the resistance - and does not increase.
4 - still add some - some way (it is possible even in the latter skill) level of the life steal of the sorcerer - is the main stat in a branch, which required the sorcerer, but in addition to it, we need the power and penetration, unlike other healers who for the sake of treatment can only maximize power and have still a lot of options to other articles. and our three - are required, without them we are not healers, so facilitating reception of one article - would greatly simplify development path
Warlock is said to be a striker/leader and temptation seems to be the leader tree of that class.
So my conclusion for a rebalance is either lift temptations damage and let him be a striker with a some leader options, maybe balance that capstone (nonesense scaling at higher gear), or give him a push towards the leader role by improving the tierfeats 4/5 and capstone and maybe do some rework of powers like vampiric embrace, wich are unpopular for striker --> VE could buff group HP or spend mitigation etc.
Balancing those powers might be sufficient to get things in line
Apart from that, I agree about the DC and a needed overlook of that class, fixes and balancing are needed by sure, AA gives full immunity to your group, powerbuffing is far above everything other classes can provide and those buffs like 40% + damage and 40% debuff (other classes got them too) are over the top imo.
The devteams in further mods did soo much wrong by implenting that kind of buffs to many classes. Lifting party damage by 200% from AA+BtS+powerbuffs+debuffs ... there is no way to balance other classes or trees on a same level.
Same as they should take care of GWF and feats like steely defence and disciple of war wich gives a 2.5k GWF the stats of a compareable 3k+ class by lifting his power stupidly.
My GWF can slot rank 3x12 azures into a maxed companions defence slots 3x700x2.85, slot defense boon 8k, in the end he get´s pushed for a significant ammount of power, his classfeature weapon mastery + offhand feat is near plus 20% critchance infight on top.
Feats that buff your power for silly ammounts getting more every mod, and buffs/feature that spend 20%+ crit, 40% damage+, 40% debuff, 100% immunity... No clue who did those concepts but they were proven to be wrong.
I don´t think it´s a very complicated task to improve things/classes. I can´t understand this company.
Why do things take that long? I can´t understand what focus cryptic/PWE has got, but they obviously do not focus on things to improve the game experience.
That's a good start.
@tyrtallow
I like how you brought up the original DnD roles.
So if the SW was to be a leader on temptation, do you think anything needs to change for them to be able to take that mantle?
If we were to lower the damage on the SW temptation, it's healing would also decrease along with it.
Thanks for the replies
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
I mostly did that to test what kind of performance a temptation can have. The impressions I got are:
- healing is massive. With BoVA, PoP and VE you can outheal everything that doesn't one-shot you. I'm pretty much convinced I can outheal even Hati's dot (but can't enter FBI yet with this toon).
- tanking/damage debuffing on monsters is good. I tanked everything except Orcus. With PoP on the ground I can tank Glabrezus and even the Balor (albeit I need the HP guild boon for the latter).
- damage is decent for a full heal/debuff rotation (pretty much the same of the oppressor running with me, way better than a support DC)
- damage buff: low, far far away from a DC
- ability to avoid one shots: low
The last point is what makes the SW temptation a bad replacement for a DC with the current meta in the difficult stuff, as most monsters can one/two shot everything. Less buff may only be an issue of time in completing content, but if can't prevent continuous one-shots then you can't replace a DC.
It would be cool to have an aura that changes all enemy damage into a dot instead of making it applied instantly. In that way you have a chance to outheal it, but you need to position yourself properly.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I've come to the same conclusion, that CN is okay with 2.5k templock and similar IL party.
I'm doing nearly the same, except that I've exchanged the tanking of BoVA for the CC & dps (AoE) of AoH.
(With a Lathander Set & Soulforged armor enchant, the party and I can do some mistakes without meaning a party death.)
Great great idea !
Perfectly in the spirit of the SW DoT's ^^
Lathander+Soulforged is the way to go for a tanky melee build like this one.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
That could explain the gap as to why I wasn't able to complete content as easily as most of you mentionned to me before. However I don't think owning bondings should be a requirement to be successful with a class to run a dungeon with a group. So even if bondings = ok, no bondings = fail, I still believe we have a problem. The massive boons offered by max level guilds are similarly overpowered.
Bondings are out of reach of alot of players because of their high price, and most players aren't in maxed guilds. That's why a new-ish player without boons nor bondings will have a vastly different performance than experienced players with bondings and boons, at the same item lvl.
Anyways, let me know what you think,
Thanks
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
You nailed it but unless you play mostly pvp, it's a problem on the contrary imho..
The game on ps4 is 3 month old, and you already see people with insane ilvl...
When you need these ilvl items, you actually have a reason to play but when your artifacts and runes/enchants are max , whats the point to keep playing ? ( pve i mean )
You run the same dunjeons you already have but it's easier, that's all
My 2.5 IL GWF with maxed bondings is arround 60k power and 22k+ crit as far as i remenber...
In NWO players have to do their own tests and analysis to be able to perform. Therefore new-ish players are in hell if their class is complexe and not the best performer ( like SW ... ).
More or less in following performance order
- Campaing boons
- Guild boons
- Compagnon Bonding & (augment)
- Set's, Rings specfic power, armor/weapon enchants
- Mounts bonus & Insigna's power
- Classic equipment and enchant
- Base powers
Normally the more high level to to reach a bonus is, then the lower effect it should have. In NWO not only it's the contrary but I'm affraid it's exponential.But fix these sick bonus would meed/force a good balancing of classes, mobs and instances ; otherwise over&under-powered elements will be obvious.
@duckntroll
Lesser ones don't matter for much though. 60% vs 285% is an obviously big gap.
And how much each aspect their end game content contributes to performance, that's their game design, which is well and all that, but there's still room for improvement in class aspects, as you can't expect everyone to know everything.
To me, making campaigns, bondings, guilds, etc, mandatory to be able to successfully run a dungeon at it's suggested iLV with a specific class (SW Temp for example) is a big flaw that needs to be adressed.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
I am curious about your current temp sw stats. Also gear, mount + insignias, companions, guild boons..
When I posted mod 10 temp HB build.
I used non twisted weapon set. Thats mean I didn't had high power, but yet in fights most of time I had stable 20k power and with single bonding runestone enabled combo with dark revelry + insignia effects + rampaging madness + elvish fury + power food I could get more than 24k power.
With current twisted set without potions, without guild boons, without food without bonding I can hit 22k power easily.. So my friend what kind build do u have??
U don't like run dungeon solo with temp SW? Try run with pure heal build DC. I had such heal DC, but reworked slighgly to import some buffs in its gameplay, and latter still reworked to warehouse..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
and you can simply sell the companion if you don't need it to make the most out of the deal.. Sometimes bonding prices will drop during events or when they show up in lockboxes.Always remember that the game gives you plenty of tools to get what you need, you just need to be able to figure it out. People will rarely tell you what to do and (more often than not, perhaps to protect their own interests) might even spread misinformation on purpose, but that's how things work.
Healers are required less because game difficulity now is in shamefull level. All classes are way way way overbuffed.Dmg outputs are to high.
Why devs cut old dungeons? Only because it where pointless keep dungeons which could be cleared in moments with little efforts. So they cut them so they could buff monsters, adjust/change drop and present them back in some time..
But as how game goes,, It will never happens that they would bring us back at least 60% of old dungeons. Because even now, "epic" dungeons require rebalancing again.
Some say that this new dungeon is hard.. Perhaps, but I heard that this dungeon is still more like trolling rather than challange.
Here I link video, of game which I played some time ago. There u can see what I can reall boss fight.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Note: I don't know how the new forum works for posting pictures
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
upload immagini
Here my companion with bondings:
upload immagini gratis
As you can see there's a lot of room for improvement. I still have the elemental weapons, all stuff is purple and the neckpiece is still blue (will be purple later today). Companions are what I scraped off my main, the paranoid delusion I got from VIP. The mount is the Chult Leopard (2k recovery) I bought as account-wide mount a long time ago.
Enchants are rank 7 and 8, lesser soulforged. The only powerful thing is the Transcendent Feytouched I moved here from my main HR when I got the new Dread.
I have all campaigns completed boons-wise except Tyranny (5 boons out of 7) and SKT (two boons so far).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I assume your provided stats are when your temp sw is in idle(non combat) mode, without any buff been triggered(potions/rampaging madness, elvish fury, etc.
So with your stats is almost impossible to fail keep party members alive in any eDungeon. With such stats u should be able stand in front of tiamat, giving middle finger and she would not be able kill you neither any other player in your healing area. More less u should be unrivaled field healer.
Only downside I can see that u have low def, and deflect stats.. So I can see that your life steal comes from stronghold boon. ITs good stuff, but thats also downside. Firstly even aura of despair reduce enemies outgoing damage by percentage, your own damage resist stats are low.. All your build is very good for fury builds. I mean its close or not msot common glass canon setup. Which is just all stuffs goes to improve offensive stats, and have 0 investment in survivability...
But I can't judge for that,, everyone have own gmaplay/gamestyle...
So far I can see only 2 reasons why your temp sw could fail to heal party in epic dungeons, eDemo, tiamat or dragonflight or Heroic encoutners fights..
1) you using more burst like damage encounters (killing flame, fiery bolt, arm of hadar, gates of hell) which mean u have burst like healing when triggering life steal effect which I assume u have like more than 50% chance...
2) party members are glasscanon set up, and faill or not even try use dodging mechanics and eat all incoming hits.. Such gameplay focused party require top end healer and even them its hard to keep them alive...
Also you should understand that with your current build u have more chance get in party than heal DC... Why?
Firstly not only u have high healing capabilites, you also have high dps capabilities which heal focused DC don't have.. Same goes for buff dc, he perhaps have more buffing factors, but your dps + heal + buff + debuff combo would make more desired in party...
If u used BoVa + PoP + hadar grasp + hellish rebuke U need only up 5k life steal... Which mean 45% is more than enough to make continuous healing..
But with your current stats u can have same as heal DC's burst like healing...
To be fair with such stats u should be able take Edungeons solo...
p.s why u using drowned weapon set?? U are temp HB, so healing should not be problem, and better would be to pick twisted to get even higher offensive stats...
@gabrieldourden
Well that can I say,, with your stats same as @denvald U should be able easily take major He's without big problems, take dungeons(epic) solo or duo without problems. Stats already are far higher than required. Only matters remain in gameplay..
p.s this post valdation/checking requirement is really annoying one....
Its work simple,, if u add certain words in your comment,, due censorship it must be checked. To be fair, I think every class forum should have own sub moderator or something.. Because I think current moderators can't handle them all... Or they should give up on this feature...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Damage bursts are basically what the temptation warlock is still not able to deal with, even if I run full damage debuff (including Feytouched).
By the way I alway run with PoP and BoVa and change the third power depending on the situation. Arms of Hadar on mob groups, while on bosses I'm still trying to find the best one (Vampiric Embrace, Warlock's Bargain and Dreadtheft are the ones I'm looking at).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Water weapons - I still do pvp.. I'll craft the new weapons for my main eventually that's why I decided to skip twisted. About the time I was going to get them the new weapons went up on preview so I decided to pass on it.
My encounter powers change for each dungeon and situation. Solo'ing, T1s and etos, T2s and CN, etc, I use what's best for the group I am with.
Lastly, I was mostly worried about warlocks like me who are lower iLV. I have no problem with any dungeon or group content until I hit Orcus the CN boss, and I dont know yet how it'll look like in FBI cause I haven't had the chance to do that yet.
@gabrieldourden
I suppose iLV really lost it's meaning, because your warlock at 2.5k has more stats than mines thanks to bondings
Side note: The reason I don't have bondings yet is because I focused on things I can bring in domination first. However the next thing I'm buying is gunna be bondings, until the next 2x RP, then I should be close to 4k ilv.
2nd Side note: The reason I'm playing temptation with high dps now is for HEs. Now I don't have to worry as much as our group not running with another healer and dying all the time. It makes my time running HEs smoother. I'm likely jumping back to Fury when I'm done with HEs, awaiting any change for temptation to come back to it.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Burst damage indeed is hard to deal, but its mostly depend on party members builds. Lot of players pick glasscanon builds, come to dungeon with def to up ~4k and hope that they can hold line. So without buff DC which can buff their defensive stats, its almost impossible to keep them alive. Also somehow players tend to miss or don't even bother to dodge incoming hits. which also bring bit headpain.
Hmm, warlock bargain is great encounter for boss fight, due its dot nature, HP draining and restoring your own, and mostly that you redirect 15% of its incoming damage to WB affected one.
DT i would pick only over BoVa and only if fight in close range is impossible. Like Orcus. But still its not like best option. I think its better WB + PoP + HG/KF for dps, + hellish rebuke with flame of empowerment feature + hand of blight.
So u cast PoP to get buff> cast WB for dps and its benefits> HG for DoT like dps, on top cast Hellish rebuke for extra DoT + trigger flame of empowerment stacks, and on top add hand of blight effect.
IF u go with DT, than it goes like PoP + Hellish rebuke(flame empowerment) + WB >DT and mostly after than u have to repeat.
On top have to remember that we have daily powers, which depend on which power sets we use and what we want from them. If I want extra survivability than definatly have to use brood of hadar due its damage reduction feature..
If Dps, TC or FoP is good option.
Probably wondering why I don't pick Vampiric? Probably because when you fight single boss, its better have strong DoT like damage to have fast continious healing. Its not like orcus hit 2 times per second.... Also only paper/glass tanks die from 1 or 2 slaps.. I with PoP buff alone can hold 2 hits*(HP potion). Also need to remember that temp sw healing comes from damage..
Anyways I have plans after returning back from vacation slightly change my build, perhaps even add Hellish Condemnation feat, which: Targets affected by your Hellish Rebuke atwill deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage.,
But its still not clear does it reduce damage over all, or just for my warlock only.... IF its do reduce overall, imagine to combine with aura of despair. U get 15% damage reduction or from other view point 15% damage resistance.
And if your sw had problem to survive add> Warding Curse feature. So your sw get extra 4% damage ressitance from ccursed enemies(wondering does Lesser curse counts too.)
So more less its still not all stuffs I have tested. There are possible optimisation for temp sw with current feats. However certain powers I would like to be replaced within temp tree,
like
Eldritch Momentum and Soul Breaker. THey are kinda useless. Eldritch momentum maybe would be ok for damnation, fury but not for temp.. We don't run from enemies to survive, we run in them and steal life in order to survive...
Soul breaker where for mod4 and mod5, but not with current 4x time higher ap regeneration ratio compared to mod 5.
@denvald
hmm, pvp is hard stuff for temp, because its have lowest dps rates compared to damnation and fury. SOmehow I still do think twisted would be better. Because as support u have healing features, and they are as good as u have good dps. But I can't argue much about that, because I give up on pvp since mod 7 release.
Anyways, looks like once again, if I stop write in this thread, its die. Nothing happening....
Its seems like I had to write possible temp feat rework..... :P
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Because in my own personal experience its against solo mobs that Temptlocks really shine because their enemy damage output-reduction powers come into full play. I've seen a Temptlock basically cut Orcus' damage down to half, and after wiping once vs the green orbs we managed to beat him on the next try without incident.
As for green orbs/death spheres. There is simple tactic. When orcus rise his arms and start to charge his aoe or other powers, split group in room, don't stay in one or two groups. And when runing away from spheres don't run in other party members. Kite/lure them around in free space its not hard and also they are for short time duration.
Mostly players faill orcus due brainless gameplay or due panic.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread