Do you think an average templock has the ability to support a group trough a high tier dungeon like CN successfully?
Same as an average DC/Tank/put any class here.
The only problem is the complexity of Templock class : SW is already the most complex class and Templock is the most complex of the 3 parangon (due to team management).
SW doesn't allow player mediocrity.
Templock doesn't allow halfassed player.
But its complexity is rewarding, you can make up for lacking groups
A group can lack aggro management, therefore CC are priority with mobility.
A group can lack dps, therfore damaging and buffing/debuffing is a priority.
A group can lack tanking, therfore tempoary HP are priority with DR buff, then heal and someone to absorb/dodge some hits.
A Templock can provide all of that. More, it can do it all (nearly) at the same time.
As a conclusion, you can see Templock as an all-purpose support class, but as it's complex the player behind has to be able to manage that complexity.
Remark: a good group doesn't need supporter class at all (no tank, no heal, no bard).
What is your definition of a good group? A group that can survive by itself? This game is about grind and time and about debuffs/buffs. You can spend 20 min running a dungeon and you can spend 40min running the same dungeon without a buffer/supporter. You can zerg orcus down from distance , using exclusively striker classes and a legendary purple tank pet, group spread all over the room, sure. You can also take a GF who tanks that boss, spending a 35% DR buff, up to 70% of your total AP and 18% DR debuff and 65% damagereduction for the hole group from KV+efats, focussing buffs in one spot available to your hole team, killing him in 10 seconds.
The biggest plus for warlocks in terms of buffing/debuffing are his debuffs, who are ok, PoP 10% and dreadtheft 20% (8seconds) and infernal wrath 5% (15 points in fury needed) for the hole group.
-->This can be done by a furylock and that´s why templock needs some buffs at higher tiers, like the DT-debuffs stays permanent. This can be added to the darkness feature. The feat anyway is from minor interest atm. A permanet 20% debuff is pretty huge and the rework of a feature towards a stronger permanet lasting debuff could be a an easy solution. DT may be a must have/use that way, but who cares. HB fury would go for Pop, DT and something else. They alternatively could rework Warlocks Bargain and give it a debuff at temptations tier 4 or 5 feat. Darkness: Warlocks Bargain reduces enemys DR by 4/8/12/16%, done templock more viable.
Another option may be a big nerf all over the place stomping those crazy debuffs and buffs other classes can apply , like Breaking the spirit, longstrider shot, and more. But that would be a painfull and very unpopular decision.
Btw someone mentioned wraith shadow in a thread, spending a solid debuff (guess it was 30% damagedebuff). I am sure it worked in mod 8 or 9, but in mod 10 thefabricant postetd that it´s bugged and doesn´t work. Anyone knows about it or tested it already?
Do you think an average templock has the ability to support a group trough a high tier dungeon like CN successfully?
Hm, possibly. I don't really know. It depends on a few things. It can heal them through that I'm sure of, but how well can it take hits without proper DR/Deflect and such? The issues is Temp draws so much aggro that I find myself taking as much or more damage than the tank. If you can prevent yourself from getting 1 or 2 shotted then I see no reason why not. A ranged rotation to handle orcus would be good, something like PoP(always)/DT/VE. Spam the Sprint button in pillar when he is about to unleash his AoE and make sure you have your VE temp HP to give yourself a better chance at survival.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
What is your definition of a good group? A group that can survive by itself? This game is about grind and time and about debuffs/buffs. You can spend 20 min running a dungeon and you can spend 40min running the same dungeon without a buffer/supporter. You can zerg orcus down from distance , using exclusively striker classes and a legendary purple tank pet, group spread all over the room, sure. You can also take a GF who tanks that boss, spending a 35% DR buff, up to 70% of your total AP and 18% DR debuff in this fight, focussing buffs in one spot available to your hole team, killing him in 10 seconds. //cut//
Templocks have much more damage than DCs, so a good balance between buff/debuff/protection/dps must be found to keep both classes viable and desirable.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
This can be done by a furylock and that´s why templock needs some buffs at higher tiers, like the DT-debuffs stays permanent.
Having a BiS/high tiers oriented reflexion only is the best way to screw up everyday life game experience. Improving debuff for a 1.8k Templock is 100% useless while improving buff isn't.
What is your definition of a good group? A group that can survive by itself? This game is about grind and time and about debuffs/buffs. You can spend 20 min running a dungeon and you can spend 40min running the same dungeon without a buffer/supporter. You can zerg orcus down from distance , using exclusively striker classes and a legendary purple tank pet, group spread all over the room, sure. You can also take a GF who tanks that boss, spending a 35% DR buff, up to 70% of your total AP and 18% DR debuff and 65% damagereduction for the hole group from KV+efats, focussing buffs in one spot available to your hole team, killing him in 10 seconds.
Again, all given exemple are BiS gaming. Those are a completly screwed-up ways of seeing things :
Speed run ?
Boss weaknesses exploit ?
Classes buff/features abuse ?
But it's not (entirely) the fault of BiS players, it's just MMO games growth, grind and relations (including competition) are created on absurd and outdated economic logics.
This can be done by a furylock and that´s why templock needs some buffs at higher tiers, like the DT-debuffs stays permanent.
Having a BiS/high tiers oriented reflexion only is the best way to screw up everyday life game experience. Improving debuff for a 1.8k Templock is 100% useless while improving buff isn't.
What is your definition of a good group? A group that can survive by itself? This game is about grind and time and about debuffs/buffs. You can spend 20 min running a dungeon and you can spend 40min running the same dungeon without a buffer/supporter. You can zerg orcus down from distance , using exclusively striker classes and a legendary purple tank pet, group spread all over the room, sure. You can also take a GF who tanks that boss, spending a 35% DR buff, up to 70% of your total AP and 18% DR debuff and 65% damagereduction for the hole group from KV+efats, focussing buffs in one spot available to your hole team, killing him in 10 seconds.
Again, all given exemple are BiS gaming. Those are a completly screwed-up ways of seeing things :
Speed run ?
Boss weaknesses exploit ?
Classes buff/features abuse ?
But it's not (entirely) the fault of BiS players, it's just MMO games growth, grind and relations (including competition) are created on absurd and outdated economic logics.
Speed run, exploit, BIS ? No clue what you talk about dude. I talk about the fact that a 20 min run is far more acceptable than a 40min run in a grindy mmo. If your world of NWO is running elol and shores all day it´s ok. What about arguments btw. ? How do you think a debuff works in NWO? It pushes the effectivenees for your group for xy % and is a big part getting things done in time. If you stack debuffs for your group they will be very pleased. Buffs or debuffs are the things you should be worried about as a supporter, no clue what you focus on in your build. Balance is an issue , because grind is a huge part of this game. Run dungeon xy 100 times.
Run times are an important part of a MMO. People only have so much time and if one class allows faster completion time because they are more effective in their roles, they will favor that class over another. That is the same debate reason why so many people complain about other classes dishing much more DPS than their own. If one class is much more effective at dealing damage than the others (without adding anything else to the group) Why do you need them? I'm definitly not an expert in other classes so this debate however, is for another thread. But it is of the same nature.
When you see one class being more desirable and more effective than the other, there's a balance problem, and when there is, classes become obsolete or sub-optimal. This is why advantages and disadvantages to one class, must be roughly equal to the other when you weight their pros and cons.
Example: DC: Less dps, more buffing SW: More dps, less buffing
We just need to find a point where one doesnt overpower the other and both are more or less equally desirable. Because currently a SW templock is not as desirable as DCs and they(DC) are more effective in a party, by a large margin.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
When you see one class being more desirable and more effective than the other, there's a balance problem, and when there is, classes become obsolete or sub-optimal. This is why advantages and disadvantages to one class, must be roughly equal to the other when you weight their pros and cons.
That's only when mutiples classes do the same things, but as you said DC and SW doesn't do the same things.
The problem is that roles aren't made specific (to the absurd point where BiS can solo dungeons, being able to dps, tank, heal, buff, ...). If roles where made more specific (by reducing efficiency of roles unfit to the class), groups will be really less picky.
Run times are an important part of a MMO. People only have so much time and if one class allows faster completion time because they are more effective in their roles, they will favor that class over another.
Available time is a level design problem, it hasn't to impact underperforming classes. Dev's can create really short and super high tiers levels (but honnestly I seriously doubt NWO dev's abilities).
It's a false preconception, that long levels must give better & unique rewards, as those are easier to be possible. If we break that, we could have some real difficulty, involving more timing than overflowing. --> More fun, more lifespan for less work (just have to work better, an easy way is to involve players to do part of the job, but NWO staff doesn't seem to get it right)
All of that HAMSTER come from the simplistic economic vision seeing time and boosters as money. It's simplistic because it reduce their game lifespan, forcing them to improve boosters, making lifespan even shorter ... An obvious vicious.
It´s dungeons and some dragons, it´s grind all time and the average player heads towards CN to get his best time/reward ratio, apart from those who decided to sit at 1800 IL, I guess guildless and boonless, to underline how pittyfull life can be nevertheless it´s possible to get to 2.5 in short time. I am sure those player are not representative and not capable to discuss balance.
A DC at 1.800 IL uses Astral Seal, BoB, Devine Glow, Breaking the Spirit, Astral Shield, Forgemaster FLame, Prophecy of Doom, Annoited Army. Apart from the lower heals and the lower Powerbuffs from AC paragon, those buffs are the same at 4k Il and at 1.8k IL. The class is easy to level and can do any conetent at low IL with ease, there is no need to have more survivablity. Atm a DC at 1.8 IL outperforms every templock (even far better geared) in support, wich leads to an inefficient class.
Discussing about the grind and the bad economy of a F2P game (wich has to be that way) ? Wrong game, go for another mmo. Pay monthly and get everything for free, wich is more commmon in those games. F2P= grindy and timeintensive by that. Success depends on the effectiveness of your class and the time you spend playing that game.
If templock should be viable, he needs to be either: 1. buffed as a striker -> more damage, or 2. buffed in support
Run times are an important part of a MMO. People only have so much time and if one class allows faster completion time because they are more effective in their roles, they will favor that class over another. That is the same debate reason why so many people complain about other classes dishing much more DPS than their own. If one class is much more effective at dealing damage than the others (without adding anything else to the group) Why do you need them? I'm definitly not an expert in other classes so this debate however, is for another thread. But it is of the same nature.
Different class with own buff/debuff sets give different results.. Some buffs sets are better for melle/close range fights, others buff sets are better for ranged ones.. Diminishing is important, but give me a break. IF party are not group of idiots whot eat incoming hits, but dodge them. Also if my party is ranged strikers.. Then I don't need such buffer as DC.. I better go heal + buff/debuff temp.
U mentioned other mmprpg.. Well my suggestion don't start it.. Or I will start writing 2 pages long posts about buffs, heals and their mehanics in other mmorpg.s
When you see one class being more desirable and more effective than the other, there's a balance problem, and when there is, classes become obsolete or sub-optimal. This is why advantages and disadvantages to one class, must be roughly equal to the other when you weight their pros and cons.
How many temptation Sw where around prior mod 10? Tell me, do there where lot of tempt sw around,? Even before stepped aside from game due some reason. Lot of times in Protector enclave players in LFG and zone writing.. LF DC<, SOme write Heal DC, some write buff/debuff DC. Some write LF> healer<. I respond to them and tell that I can heal.. And answer is>>>> U are warlock<<. There are still guys who don't know what temptation sw is at all, and that it can heal, it can buff, debuff and do decent dps.
So if your tempt is not popular, then I can say u that this mod 10 is attempt for tempt sw back tp buffers list.
Example: DC: Less dps, more buffing SW: More dps, less buffing
We just need to find a point where one doesnt overpower the other and both are more or less equally desirable. Because currently a SW templock is not as desirable as DCs and they(DC) are more effective in a party, by a large margin.
U are wrong..
Main difference betwen Dc and SW is. SW is 1 pack. heal, buff/debuff. DC. u have to pick. heal, buff/debuff or dps. \ Next, SW is more areal healing/buffing and debuffing. Whiel DC is more limited area buff/debuff,
Why DC is more desired than SW.. Well probably because are still lot of guys who don't know that temp sw is heal/buf/debuff tree from warlock class... Players think that only DC is buffer/healer,, What do u think I went through in first month after I respected to tempt sw? Do u think someone started aske me to buff them? Do u think after mod 10 went live guys in zone and lfg chats starting ask like LF >temp SW? In first days I shocked lot of guys who went with me in epic dungeons.. Also where situation when I where kicked from party, so that undergeared, underdeveloped heal DC would take my place.. because they didn't knew that my temp could heal 3x more than that poor DC.
U want changes.. OK > I wrote suggestion for you. Write your build based around feats.. And don't try make DC rip off, Because that will not work. Also no one would pick tempt at all. Who need DC copy if u can pick real DC...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I really like how you are pasionnate about your class. You mentionned SW temp being as desirable (or even more so than DCs) and I would love to see that being demonstrated when you come back from vacations.
To plug a few numbers in, to prove that SW temp can be as good as a DC. Because from my experience they're far off. (Let alone not recognized in the queue system as a support to begin with).
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I suggest to do an FBI or visit Svartborg in his new dungeon. Run those dungeons as a templock with a tank and 3 dps. That´s actual content classes have to mess with and prove to be balanced and able to fullfill their role. The templock will have huge problems doing so and you need to be very creative to protect your group from getting onehittet at the first 2 bosses. This only could work with a good tank, I recommend a GF , since prot Pally seems to be nerfed too hard and that GF can cover 65% incoming damage from all sources with KV and feats. Beside the fact that those fights last longer there will be a lot of player kissing the ground and I doubt you will get past those two bosses easily. This only would work with 3 caster who step outside the aoe since TR and GWF allways stand inside that red zone and will go mad if they die after short time. The last boss is the smallest problem, I watched a GWF´s tanking her (I saw that class also tanking Orcus 2 weeks ago).
Before the rework of warlock, the gap between Temptation and Fury was much smaller, now they do not play in the same league any more. Unitl mod 9 the templock was viable, since dps was ok and every dungeon could be easily done. After TC fix the hole class will be from minor interest anyway. So where is the point to run that tree? He can´t replace a DC/OP (until you prove me wrong) and he can´t replace a dps. The only place in a group is the fifth spot as supporter running beside a tank, an OP/DC and 2 dps, that would work, sure. But it is more like being tolerated than being wanted and hard to stand against classes like buffer CW or another high dps. He is in between and is having a hard time to get a spot in actual content. That´s why temptation needs a rework/buffs. I don´t talk about elol or EsoT, those groups can be build random, and in case someone has a tankpet you can skip the tank also and I also do not talk about solo experience. And if someone says, I talk BS because he runs 24/7 T1 dungeons with a temptlock and is doing fine, I agree, go on run T1 have fun.
I think you nailed how I feel about the temptation specs. The easiest way to see that the class is not well balanced is in harder content.
Some groups dont even take tanks and healers in T1s and T2s, so being 'good' there hardly shows much IMO. CN is ok but still the real test is going to be FBI and svardborg raid.
Even at 3.4k iLv, I don't feel comfortable supporting a CN run all by myself... I did a few times and we had to range it, i was not able to keep the tank alive troughout the last boss fight.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I really like how you are pasionnate about your class. You mentionned SW temp being as desirable (or even more so than DCs) and I would love to see that being demonstrated when you come back from vacations.
To plug a few numbers in, to prove that SW temp can be as good as a DC. Because from my experience they're far off. (Let alone not recognized in the queue system as a support to begin with).
Its not as desired as DC, and simply I know that most guys dismiss tempt sw because they underestimate its capabilities.. And no I am not passionate about temp at all.. I just annoyed when guys think that only DC is support class in neverwinter..
Queue system have flaws.. One of example, U have dps DC.. And its recognize as healer/buff/debuff but not as striker... same as do not recognize sw as healer... All its becouse queue system look not to build trees or paragon path, but to class itself. DC is support from lv 1. warlock is striker from lv 1. With paragon path, and build trees we adjust gameplay and certain powers. Also now think about situation u have half feat points spent on fury, half for temp.. How system should recognize warlock? striker or supporter??
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
/cut/ Also now think about situation u have half feat points spent on fury, half for temp.. How system should recognize warlock? striker or supporter??
My suggestion of paragon path choosing which queue you are in would solve that.
Soulbinder supports, Hellbringer dps. Of course, I appreciate any other creative idea that would resolve effectively this problem
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
My suggestion of paragon path choosing which queue you are in would solve that.
Soulbinder supports, Hellbringer dps. Of course, I appreciate any other creative idea that would resolve effectively this problem
Now as I wrote,, how queue system should recognize dps build DC..? By your way, means we have to rework all classes.. Also have u even though what thats mean for damnation tree? By you its gone.
Here is simple idea.. U open queue windown., mark dungeon> in lower dungeon mame, add mini box/line with option to pick.
Striker<>Tank<>CC<>support
Support(heal, buff, debuff) Striker (dps class), Tank ( tankers) CC (crowd controler)
When u pick one of them, for example I pick dps, thats mean queue system will view my character as striker. Regardless if I am DC or SW or CW.. Thats would avoid confusion within current queue sytem..
note: I know that this system can be abused in negative way... Some trolls would mark that their class is striker, while in fact he is healer... Or oposite,, Gwf register himself as supporter... But still its still less expensive in time and cost developmet wise..
Now lets look to your idea about Spliting in dps and support paragon paths.
Also as u notice the difference between SB and HB are not so big.
HB have At will: hellish rebuke Daily power: gate of hell Encounter: pillar of power Class features: Prince of hell, flame of empowerment, and no pity, no mercy Feats: Gatekeeper's Empowerment (Fury) Power of the Nine H3lls (Damnation) Hellish Condemnation (Temptation)
SB have Mechanic: soul spark At will: Essence Defiler Daily power: Immolation spirit Encounter: Soul Scorch Class feature: Snuff Out, Borrowed Time and Dust to Dust. Feats: Burning Soul (Fury) Sparkbinder (Damnation) Vampiric Sparks (Temptation)
All other powers are shared. With same effects, same damage, everything same.
All other classes goes same way. So your suggestion is not like some changes,, it more less request to cut SW from game and redesing from scratch.
Remember in my older posts, I suggested you to write feat rework for tempt sw. So far no posts u have wrote about that...
Now just for fun, try write 3 feat buils for your suggested sb(support) sw..
But be mind no DC + OP ripoff, u must keep SW in degree that DC and Op could compete with temptation.
So more less I hope your next or second post will contain at least 1 trees feat sets...
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Now lets look to your idea about Spliting in dps and support paragon paths.
Also as u notice the difference between SB and HB are not so big.
HB have At will: hellish rebuke Daily power: gate of hell Encounter: pillar of power Class features: Prince of hell, flame of empowerment, and no pity, no mercy Feats: Gatekeeper's Empowerment (Fury) Power of the Nine H3lls (Damnation) Hellish Condemnation (Temptation)
SB have Mechanic: soul spark At will: Essence Defiler Daily power: Immolation spirit Encounter: Soul Scorch Class feature: Snuff Out, Borrowed Time and Dust to Dust. Feats: Burning Soul (Fury) Sparkbinder (Damnation) Vampiric Sparks (Temptation)
All other powers are shared. With same effects, same damage, everything same.
All other classes goes same way. So your suggestion is not like some changes,, it more less request to cut SW from game and redesing from scratch.
Remember in my older posts, I suggested you to write feat rework for tempt sw. So far no posts u have wrote about that...
Now just for fun, try write 3 feat buils for your suggested sb(support) sw..
But be mind no DC + OP ripoff, u must keep SW in degree that DC and Op could compete with temptation.
So more less I hope your next or second post will contain at least 1 trees feat sets...
1. This is why i suggested each paragon would have different effects on encounter powers. This allows better differentiation between HB and SB paragons. (Paladins use the same mechanics, nothing new here)
2. By feats I assume you mean the last rows of temptation feats (to prevent splashing). In that case it could go many ways. If and only if this is looked upon and implemented, cryptic will make up those buffs and numbers on their own, most likely. Would they add more protection, more buff, more debuff? Nobody knows.
Couple of random ideas? Sure. Protection - Allies who take damage within 50ft gain a shield that grants them 10/20/30/40/50% of the warlock's max HP for 10s (Cooldown 20s) When the warlock uses a daily power, him and allies 50ft around gain a 5/10/15/20/25% DR buff for 10s. The warlock gains an aura that gives allies 50ft around 10/20/30/40/50% of his life steal chance. (replaces current life steal aura, 5% really isn't that noticeable.)
Buffs- Using a daily power shares 5/10/15/20/25% of the warlock's power with nearby allies The self-buff aspect of dreadtheft is shared with your group for its duration and 4s afterwards (...)
List goes on. In the end, we won't be making the choices of percentages and what powers will come into play. Cryptic will - those are merely ideas...
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Now lets look to your idea about Spliting in dps and support paragon paths.
Also as u notice the difference between SB and HB are not so big.
HB have At will: hellish rebuke Daily power: gate of hell Encounter: pillar of power Class features: Prince of hell, flame of empowerment, and no pity, no mercy Feats: Gatekeeper's Empowerment (Fury) Power of the Nine H3lls (Damnation) Hellish Condemnation (Temptation)
SB have Mechanic: soul spark At will: Essence Defiler Daily power: Immolation spirit Encounter: Soul Scorch Class feature: Snuff Out, Borrowed Time and Dust to Dust. Feats: Burning Soul (Fury) Sparkbinder (Damnation) Vampiric Sparks (Temptation)
All other powers are shared. With same effects, same damage, everything same.
All other classes goes same way. So your suggestion is not like some changes,, it more less request to cut SW from game and redesing from scratch.
Remember in my older posts, I suggested you to write feat rework for tempt sw. So far no posts u have wrote about that...
Now just for fun, try write 3 feat buils for your suggested sb(support) sw..
But be mind no DC + OP ripoff, u must keep SW in degree that DC and Op could compete with temptation.
So more less I hope your next or second post will contain at least 1 trees feat sets...
1. This is why i suggested each paragon would have different effects on encounter powers. This allows better differentiation between HB and SB paragons. (Paladins use the same mechanics, nothing new here)
2. By feats I assume you mean the last rows of temptation feats (to prevent splashing). In that case it could go many ways. If and only if this is looked upon and implemented, cryptic will make up those buffs and numbers on their own, most likely. Would they add more protection, more buff, more debuff? Nobody knows.
Couple of random ideas? Sure. Protection - Allies who take damage within 50ft gain a shield that grants them 10/20/30/40/50% of the warlock's max HP for 10s (Cooldown 20s) When the warlock uses a daily power, him and allies 50ft around gain a 5/10/15/20/25% DR buff for 10s. The warlock gains an aura that gives allies 50ft around 10/20/30/40/50% of his life steal chance. (replaces current life steal aura, 5% really isn't that noticeable.)
Buffs- Using a daily power shares 5/10/15/20/25% of the warlock's power with nearby allies The self-buff aspect of dreadtheft is shared with your group for its duration and 4s afterwards (...)
List goes on. In the end, we won't be making the choices of percentages and what powers will come into play. Cryptic will - those are merely ideas...
Feats I mean feats. Thats mean current feats will not go well for soulbinder warlock.. Thats mean u have to rewrite all them. Striker and supporter roles are different, and thus feats also must be different..
Your ideas so far, are same as OP's, dc's and gf's. By adding their buffs to SW u kill reason to play with other support class.. And thats what i don't want to happen.
Also by writting suggestion stay on ground.. no need go so wild.. If I would go that why,, I would not even bother with feats.. I would suggest add warlock GM's powers.. Thats mean u enter dungeon, give middle finger to any enmy and obliderate/anihilate all dungeon with couple slaps... But think does its fair from other class view point?
So when u build up your suggestions, look to them from other class view point.. Imagine u overbuff one class.. Do u think DC's, gf's, op's community stay happy? They would overflood with rage/complains of overpowered warlock and demand nerfing.. Which mean cutting your suggested powers..
So write feats at start. Not encounters, nother daily powers, not class features.. Just feats sets.. From first to last one.. And once again I repeat.. No copy paste from other classes.. Unless u bring similar effect with other way.
p.s I will write something latter.. I have work to do...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
So write feats at start. Not encounters, nother daily powers, not class features.. Just feats sets.. From first to last one.. And once again I repeat.. No copy paste from other classes.. Unless u bring similar effect with other way.
A good start must not be by "feats", but by the global idea of what you think a Templock is, if it were "real". That way staying consistent and not walk over other classes & parangon will be easy.
Let me make a ROUGH try as an example
Problematic is : in NWO universe a SW is a devil's magic user
Furylock is oriented to damaging (over time), using curses to deal and improve damage.
Damnlock is oriented to necromency --> As Soulbinder have "sould sparks" therfore it look like, for consistency, dev's should have inverted the "3 parangons" with the 2 paths "Hellbringer & Soulbinder" (multi & single target).
Templock is oriented to ... Oriented to what ? Heal (an overflowing low quality heal) ? Debuff (was always weak) ? Buff (not really as it's only in mod10 that PoP made it decent) ? --> Only solution would be for me to say Temptation is a "support". (That's horribly unclear, and it's no surprise Temptation was never in a good shape as it look like a stand-in paragon.)
Then I'll start by reworking the inconsistencies on the 2 first paragons and the 2 paths inversion, creating a 3rd new paragon for both. This new 3rd parangon (with small distinctions between paths) could be a support parangon (as temptation), but I think that will be a mistake as it will bring once more inconsistency (my tastes for this 3rd parangon, will be something wicked ^^ ). After that rework the Temptation as a Path.
There is another inconsistency, that became obvious I start to think about it : The tab mechanic must be distinct and dependent of the path.
Paths, Tab and Parangon Capstone
Curser Path (fury as path) [Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Death Curse, improving damage dealt ~20% for the warlock (same as curent cursing system)
Single target --> Capstone = ~70% additionnal DoT on Cursed targets (as current fury capstone)
Multi target --> Capstone = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets is dealts to foes in ~20'
Wicked --> Capstone = ~30% damage received by cursed target is : send back & provide heal over time
Soul Path (damnation as path) with soul sparks mecanism & soul puppet [Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Soul Curse, improving damage dealt ~10% for the warlock and the puppet Remark : Curse also designate the first(s) target(s) to attack for the puppet Remark : The more spark you have the stronger the puppet will be
Single target --> Capstone = ~70% additionnal DoT on Cursed targets by warlock and puppet
Multi target --> Capstone = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets is dealts to foes in ~20'
Wicked --> Capstone = ~30% damage received by cursed target (on warlock or soul puppet) is : send back & provide heal over time (for warlock or puppet)
Support Path (temptation as path) [Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Leech Curse, reducing the target DR and damage by ~5% for everyone
Single target --> Capstone = ~70% damage done on Cursed targets as Tempoary Hit Points decreasing fast for allies in 20' ( and for warlock? )
Multi target --> Capstone = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets as Heal for allies in 20' ( and for warlock? )
Wicked --> Capstone = ~30% damage received by Cursed targets is : send back & provide Heal Over Time for allies in 20' including warlock
Remark : I can add some statistiques to work as these capstone efficiency (like is used LifeSteal% for current temptation capstone healing).
Next go for feats, logic would be to start to choose ~3 powers to enhance for each parangon (it's better if it's one for each path). Then work on remaining feats with synergies/combo in mind AND balance some feat between defence/offence (glass cannon are just the same HAMSTER as invincible walls are).
(I might edit this post to add some feats)
Single target
[Hadar Grasp] : Now damage bonus is multiplied by 1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8/2
Increase Action Point gain coming from Cursed targets "bullying" by 1/2/3/4/5 % (for support path this bonus could be shared)
Multi target
[Killing Flames] : Now generate an afteward AoE doing 6/12/18/24/30% of its initial damage (~aka fury capstone)
AoE powers have 1/2/3/4/5% chance to slow targets and increase speed of allies
Wicked
[Warlock Bargain] : Now reduce harm and improve linked damage by 2/4/6/8/10%
When receiving a critical strike 5/10/15/20/25% chance : to apply a lesser curse || to generate 5 soul sparks || receive immediatly current Heal Over Time
Remark : If I wanted to be more consistent I would rework powers too (with animations and visuals matching the path and parangon, cuz it's depend on the deity the contract was formed with).
Alot of very interesting ideas, the more we provide the better.
I particularly like how you clearly show the lack of role for the temptation warlock. It can't support a group properly, debuff/buffs are lacking, dps is lacking.. So why is it desirable?
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Thanks ! I'm not that sure if posting can be usefull at all. At least not until some counter measures are made for their management bosses to set dev's direction more in a quality gaming than in a quantity gaming.
It can't support a group properly, debuff/buffs are lacking, dps is lacking.. So why is it desirable?
Errr ! No ! I never said temptation warlock can't support a group properly ! (Since mod10 I'm doing that quite efficiently with my 2.5k cutie*)
I only said they never tough properly about Temptation and constructed this paragon as a stand-in and that's why it suffered and changed too mutch through mods.
*Remark: No one can use FBI&cie content with it's completly insane requirement of 3.1k & specific gear as a reference content. Why (would ask schietindebux&cie) ? Simply because never a common free player will be masochistic enough to get to that level without rage quiting this half failed game. (Sadly nearly same thing can be said for pvp ...)
\ Errr ! No ! I never said temptation warlock can't support a group properly ! (Since mod10 I'm doing that quite efficiently with my 2.5k cutie*)\
More less he want transform temp sw to dc/op/gf hybrid or something.
@denvald where is feat set for your SB warlock? Also don't forget by moving debuff/buff/heal factores to SB u need fill gap to HB paths feat sets.. So u will had at least 1 tree build from scratch... And I can bet u haven't even though about that.. @duckntroll wrote nice suggestion. Hower this for fun feat set writing was ment for u denvald. To get in dev view point, and try make suggestions which would be balanced and do not kill other classes. But I can see simply u have no idea what to do with temp balancing at all..
p.s sorry for late respond,, due work I can't be active, and also I losing interesting in nwo...
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Thanks ! I'm not that sure if posting can be usefull at all. At least not until some counter measures are made for their management bosses to set dev's direction more in a quality gaming than in a quantity gaming.
I think it does matter. I little over a year ago I posted a gigantic thread of everything wrong and right about warlocks, including how TT was breaking the class, powers and feats that are underwhelming, bugs, etc. I then sent that giant list to Andy, our CM, so that he can xfer it to the devs. Alot of the things I mentionned in that thread made it in the m10 rework. PoP redesign, feat ranges. Temptation auras used to have a 20ft range, it's got 50 now. Little yet necessary changes. And the TT single target? I had suggested that also. That thread is still going, i posted it roughly when m6 came out (when the HAMSTER hit the fan), which you can find here arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/556181/the-complete-warlock-thread-suggestions-bugs-feedback-considerations-and-more/p1
Bottom line, the more ideas we give the devs, the more we post about what works and what doesn't, the more likely they will notice and do something about it. Cryptic has shown that they will do something about it, we just can't expect the changes to come immediately Andy has said they want to do something about temptation but they couldn't do it at the same time as the m10 rework (Iirc). So their intention is there.
Errr ! No ! I never said temptation warlock can't support a group properly ! (Since mod10 I'm doing that quite efficiently with my 2.5k cutie*)
I'm actually fairly interested in seeing you doing that. CN sounds good enough. Lower level dungeons seems to me as the role of support isn't required in alot of groups so showing me a T1/T2 doesnt really prove anything IMO.
*Remark: No one can use FBI&cie content with it's completly insane requirement of 3.1k & specific gear as a reference content. Why (would ask schietindebux&cie) ? Simply because never a common free player will be masochistic enough to get to that level without rage quiting this half failed game. (Sadly nearly same thing can be said for pvp ...)
I get your point, however it is content, and I believe it is meant to be completed, and classes should have the *ability* to do it, regardless if the player wants or doesn't want to run that content.
@denvald where is feat set for your SB warlock? Also don't forget by moving debuff/buff/heal factores to SB u need fill gap to HB paths feat sets.. So u will had at least 1 tree build from scratch... And I can bet u haven't even though about that..
I'm sorry man I have no idea what you're asking of me?
I'm not a SB warlock, and I do believe my build is right, i know the current feats pretty well by now because I mained warlock since m4. I'm talking about the class as a whole not just my character?
Are you asking that I show you my build... ? I don't get it.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I'm sorry man I have no idea what you're asking of me?
I'm not a SB warlock, and I do believe my build is right, i know the current feats pretty well by now because I mained warlock since m4. I'm talking about the class as a whole not just my character?
Are you asking that I show you my build... ? I don't get it.
I asked you to wrtite feat sets. Not about your current warlock. But about your suggested SB(support) path and HB(dps) path. After all spliting dps and support in 2 path feat sets must be reworked. Also HB obviously will had to replace temptation tree, because its mostly about healing, buffing and debuffing, and since HB only dps = it must be removed and replaced with other dps one... It would not be so hard,, take already written feats from your old thread, rework to met current mod expectations and thats it.. I think that matter will takes up to 18 min. perhaps even less.
As for your old suggestion thread. I was reading that when it was popular for certain parts. After all your thread it that time was simply gathering and compilation of your and other players ideas, which u latter updated/changed. But more less still due low SW population was simply forgoten. And I even wondering why u haven't rewrote your old thread? I mean update it, expand/develop even more. Why stop in middle of process, keep going.
Games are not developed in one night. U write/cut/twist/change some parts during development process. Personall I know that coolest and best ideas comes in middle of development. So I its not like I don't like your idea. Simply I know that some stuff would require more time and money and in the end will lead to power adjustment to make sure other supporter stay viable in game.
TT rework which happened in mod 10 is simplty coincidences. If you read @amenar posts in preview server u would knew that TT since start it was planned to be single target curse. Not multiple one. Thats mean its not like your suggestion was taken, but simply @amenar fixed long forgoten glitch.
One of my older games prior raiderz and prior NWO had nice testing system.. U pick class for testing and u have thread/post where are writen all powers, how much stats increase/decrease. Which other stats stack or boost up other powers and so one.. On top we had special notifications that to test how certain power goes with other class buffs/debuffs and in that notifications where listed/written devs expectations how it should work. All powers who goes out of expected tolerance are reported.
Here in nwo testings is just trolling. To be fair, I can't find full detailed info about Pillar of Power. Thats mean how much percentage damage boost we get. Mostly data comes from test players speculations. So more less its not clear do it work as dev planed or not...
So more less TT sine start was bugged and worked not as planned. And all due devs fault...
p.s sorry for bad english, and late responding. Writing with phone is annoying stuff...
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I like this thread but there is only one thing I have to disagree with: I don't see why on earth SB would be doomed to become support while HB would stay strikers. As a SB, i want to remain striker! Only temptation path, whatever the paragon, should be support.
Honestly I think most feats are all right now. Maybe a few of them (Snuff out for example) are still underperforming IMO. But overall I think the current feats are fine.
The differenciation (Based upon my idea) would be encounter powers. Encounter powers would have different effects depending on your paragon - Soulbinder and Hellbringer would have different effects on their encounter powers' curse synergy/consume to better fit their appropriate roles.
In that line of idea, only the temptation capstone would be reworked to not grant any healing, because Soulbinder would take on the supporter role, Temptation would become a buff/debuff tree.
Basicly a HB temptation wouldn't heal, they would dps/buff/debuff
And a SB temptation would be a heal/protection(because SB)/buff/debuff(because temptation). To differenciate SB warlocks from other support roles, they would have a balanced trade off of less effective support to make up for their higher personnal DPS.
At least that's my idea. As for what temptation new capstone? A very desirable effective buff would do it. Exactly how it would work? Not sure, I'll post later when I have more inspiration lol.
As for merging this thread with my old one, its not a bad idea. I hadn't thought about it and I might ask a forum mod to do it for me... (if possible). Anyways
Thanks for the ideas
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I like this thread but there is only one thing I have to disagree with: I don't see why on earth SB would be doomed to become support while HB would stay strikers. As a SB, i want to remain striker! Only temptation path, whatever the paragon, should be support.
I know alot of players actually feel that way. However I haven't found another way around fixing the queue problem (maybe someone or a dev has a better idea than I do)
How else can we make support warlocks recognized by the queue system as a support role?
Any ideas are appreciated
Thanks
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
@duckntroll wrote nice suggestion. However this fun feat set writing wasn't meant for you but for denvald. To get in dev view point, and try make suggestions which would be balanced and do not kill other classes. But I can see simply you have no idea what to do with temp balancing at all...
Prior remark : I tried to fix things in your post, let me know if I misunderstood you.
Thanks for appreciating these (not really well researched) ideas of mine !
I agree that for the moment I haven't a very precise idea of what I would like Temptation to be, mainly due to it's "stand-in" paragon nature. Therefore balancing it in a way it doesn't collide with other classes roles while keeping SW nature is quite complex.
The main problem of balancing a support class is that all kind of support already exist (heal, tank & buff/debuff). However the "amount", "repartition", "way of providing" and "synergy" are all open for imagination ! Goal now is to make something with that, that match the SW nature in a really distinctive way.
I think there is one mechanics really specificity for SW, it's the "unstable position" of SW mechanics.
Over time damage bonus for Fury capstone
Having expectation on a not so performing puppet for damnation
Long recharge time for powers
Hellbringer encounter PillarOfPower (Standing still and eating attacks for a class that isn't a tank)
Honnestly, given the risk an "unbalanced position" ask then SW results MUST be over-performing others classes when they both focus everything on the same aspect. ( After it's always possible to make impossible for SW to focus everything on a single aspect, making it even or under-performing on the main aspect but having other secondary aspect. )
After some thinking I got : The "unstable position" would be the "way of providing", the "amount" should be "over-performing" if some not easy to set conditions are met. These "conditions" are the "synergy". For the remaining "repartition", I need to keep my idea of a Temptation as a Path with 3 distinct Paragon, it allow those Paragon to each have their own forte (main role) between support roles (heal, tank & buff/debuff).
Putting some tough to rework a little my previous Temptation ideas, in a more challenging way it became like this (I added a 4th parangon to imagine all support role cases) :
Support Path (temptation as path) [Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Leech Curse, reduce target DR and damage by ~3/6/9/12/15% for everyone (It increase by 3% for 10 seconds each time you LifeSteal the target, min 3% & max 15%)
[TANK FORTE] Single target --> Capstone "Blood Shield" ~75% damage done on Cursed targets as Tempoary Hit Points decreasing fast for warlock and half value for allies in range
Some feat to add threat : Tempoary hit points generated count for threat
Some not easy feat to slow tempoary hit points decrease speed for warlock and/or allies : Taking damage stop decrease speed for 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 seconds
[HEAL FORTE] Multi target --> Capstone "Vampire's Sharing" = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets as Heal for allies in range and half for warlock
Some not easy feat to increase healing efficiency :
[DEBUFF HEAL FORTE] Wicked --> Capstone "Devil's Red Glow" = ~30% damage received by Cursed targets on warlock is : send back for half and other half provide Heal Over Time for warlock and allies in range
Some not easy feat to decrease foes defence capability : when eating damage
[BUFF FORTE] Weaked --> Capstone "Hell Madness" = reduction of ~20% damage done by the warlock on Cursed targets is given as bonus damage to all allies (all allies add the same 20% of damage the warlock didn't make, therefore if there is 4 allies they will do 4*20%=80% damage) It scale with level (for companion) and disapear if not used after some time
Some not easy feat to increase damage : increase combat advantage bonus ( by 1/2/3/4/5% ? I'm not sure about CA scaling )
Remark : I should have added some increasing/descreasing condition for Capstone too, but it's time for me to sleep. EDIT : In fact Capstone are Curse dependant, therfore they already aren't easy to activate. The remaining problem is about the lesser curse, should it also provide 100% of Capstone or a reduced effect (that can increase depending on a condition/statistic) ?
REMARK : When doing some PvP (I'm forced to do it otherwise I'dl never set foot in a game mode that's so unfair) I see that the Warlock Curse that I put disapear really easily (especially on TR using the smoke attack). SW are already bad for pve, worst for pvp, and if their major mechanic disapear every 10 second then you will never see any SW doing PvP (except troll build, running extremly fast from all action) ...
Remark : I should have added some increasing/descreasing condition for Capstone too, but it's time for me to sleep.
As alwats u doing great.. And too bad that my last line in my quote ending wrongly.. I adressed that @denval don't know what he want to do with temp class. As for you Duckntroll, I can bet u could write long, well balanced ideas for warlock rework... Also I notice that when I stop writing here, this all thread become more less dead... :P
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Also I notice that when I stop writing here, this all thread become more less dead... :P
I'm afraid of that too. We are what, like 5 active Templock on the forum at most ? Naturaly if one stop posting, forum go to death.
If they really want to rework Templock, they must AT THE VERY LEAST create something equal to my suggestions, in terms of fun and potential. If they additionnally do something challenging ( like my idea of not so easy reward to overpower other classes going easy ), then templock (and SW) will have a permanent pool of players liking harder gaming.
Otherwise it's better they do nothing if it's just doing those ridiculous balancing/nerfs SW got hit by in mod10, it will only mean trashing Temptation once again. It's not that we aren't used to, but it will be too mutch, templock will be a definitive NOGO.
Now as I wrote,, how queue system should recognize dps build DC..? By your way, means we have to rework all classes.. Also have u even though what thats mean for damnation tree? By you its gone.
this system (1 healler, 1 tank & 3 DPS) is already here.
but. it's a little... wry. for exmple its still doesn't know where to put Executioner TR in party. (oh, are you a tank? a supporter? maybe controller, who are you, rogue??) So for first system is searching for DC, OP (healer) and GF, OP (tanking) - because it know it 100% right. But when DC has gone system still looking for some other healer or supposter. any one and there is party joined some HR (hello! here i am!) or SW (need some cookies?).
So system can recognize SW as a healler and HR as a supporter. 1 healler and 1 tank for now is 1 suported and 1 else any supporter. And it can be OK if there is not 2 TR and 3 GWF who can't go without real tank or healler. But in the same time I can tanking 2nd boss of CN witn my low SW healler and some trapper HR. Yes I can, but party sayed: you have low DPS and we need tank. But in real they don;t need a tank - they needs buffs maybe, more DPS from DD classes maybe. I'm OK with healing but people used to see DC as healler even if he will be 2k item level too.
So we have a problem, people can't see us as Healer.
It think will be good if near to character's icon in party will be some mark of Healer or supporter identification.
but some classes (as TR, HR) can't be a healer or tank, they just haven't any variation of heal or take damage. they can be recognized as controller-supporter only, so they shoudn't take a place of Healer or Tank only as 3th support class. because on boss fight TR can't tank boss, and HR can't heal a party. IMHO.
Also
DC: Less dps SW: More dps
don't think so. if we have DPS DC for exemple in Divine Oracle path and SW in Temtation, who will be a better DD? aslo yes I have a DC also and he can doing damage (as well as 3k CW) but in random party he is still healer and I can't say that i want damaging, I should sometimes heal party even if Im 1st rank in damage list. because in this party I'm a healer too. I remember only one time system rolled me as DD in party with OP (healing) and GF. It was for 1 time only.
I sad about it but I still understand for real that i don't want to see little DD cleric's as DD in my party and still as I staying as DC supporter I will doing my homble role of supporter.
Aslo people see me as DC and they are waiting for healing, buffs. but if under my icon will be a mark of DPS-er they could understand that i'm not a healer only.
"sometimes the world doesn't need another hero, sometimes what it needs is a monster"
Comments
This game is about grind and time and about debuffs/buffs.
You can spend 20 min running a dungeon and you can spend 40min running the same dungeon without a buffer/supporter.
You can zerg orcus down from distance , using exclusively striker classes and a legendary purple tank pet, group spread all over the room, sure.
You can also take a GF who tanks that boss, spending a 35% DR buff, up to 70% of your total AP and 18% DR debuff and 65% damagereduction for the hole group from KV+efats, focussing buffs in one spot available to your hole team, killing him in 10 seconds.
The biggest plus for warlocks in terms of buffing/debuffing are his debuffs, who are ok, PoP 10% and dreadtheft 20% (8seconds) and infernal wrath 5% (15 points in fury needed) for the hole group.
-->This can be done by a furylock and that´s why templock needs some buffs at higher tiers, like the DT-debuffs stays permanent. This can be added to the darkness feature. The feat anyway is from minor interest atm.
A permanet 20% debuff is pretty huge and the rework of a feature towards a stronger permanet lasting debuff could be a an easy solution. DT may be a must have/use that way, but who cares.
HB fury would go for Pop, DT and something else.
They alternatively could rework Warlocks Bargain and give it a debuff at temptations tier 4 or 5 feat.
Darkness: Warlocks Bargain reduces enemys DR by 4/8/12/16%, done templock more viable.
Another option may be a big nerf all over the place stomping those crazy debuffs and buffs other classes can apply , like Breaking the spirit, longstrider shot, and more. But that would be a painfull and very unpopular decision.
Btw someone mentioned wraith shadow in a thread, spending a solid debuff (guess it was 30% damagedebuff). I am sure it worked in mod 8 or 9, but in mod 10 thefabricant postetd that it´s bugged and doesn´t work. Anyone knows about it or tested it already?
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Improving debuff for a 1.8k Templock is 100% useless while improving buff isn't.
Again, all given exemple are BiS gaming.
Those are a completly screwed-up ways of seeing things :
- Speed run ?
- Boss weaknesses exploit ?
- Classes buff/features abuse ?
But it's not (entirely) the fault of BiS players, it's just MMO games growth, grind and relations (including competition) are created on absurd and outdated economic logics.What about arguments btw. ?
How do you think a debuff works in NWO? It pushes the effectivenees for your group for xy % and is a big part getting things done in time. If you stack debuffs for your group they will be very pleased. Buffs or debuffs are the things you should be worried about as a supporter, no clue what you focus on in your build.
Balance is an issue , because grind is a huge part of this game. Run dungeon xy 100 times.
@duckntroll
In my opinion...
Run times are an important part of a MMO. People only have so much time and if one class allows faster completion time because they are more effective in their roles, they will favor that class over another. That is the same debate reason why so many people complain about other classes dishing much more DPS than their own. If one class is much more effective at dealing damage than the others (without adding anything else to the group) Why do you need them? I'm definitly not an expert in other classes so this debate however, is for another thread. But it is of the same nature.
When you see one class being more desirable and more effective than the other, there's a balance problem, and when there is, classes become obsolete or sub-optimal. This is why advantages and disadvantages to one class, must be roughly equal to the other when you weight their pros and cons.
Example:
DC: Less dps, more buffing
SW: More dps, less buffing
We just need to find a point where one doesnt overpower the other and both are more or less equally desirable. Because currently a SW templock is not as desirable as DCs and they(DC) are more effective in a party, by a large margin.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
In the current context, it's not possible to do that for low & high level and for pve & pvp.
- Low levels couldn't care less about debuff, they just want to survive ... When it's the only thing for BiS, starving for efficiency ...
- I don't think I've to explain mutch why pve & pvp are nearly completly distinct games ...
But hopefully that's one of the last problem to resolve. That's only when mutiples classes do the same things, but as you said DC and SW doesn't do the same things.The problem is that roles aren't made specific (to the absurd point where BiS can solo dungeons, being able to dps, tank, heal, buff, ...).
If roles where made more specific (by reducing efficiency of roles unfit to the class), groups will be really less picky. Available time is a level design problem, it hasn't to impact underperforming classes.
Dev's can create really short and super high tiers levels (but honnestly I seriously doubt NWO dev's abilities).
It's a false preconception, that long levels must give better & unique rewards, as those are easier to be possible.
If we break that, we could have some real difficulty, involving more timing than overflowing.
--> More fun, more lifespan for less work (just have to work better, an easy way is to involve players to do part of the job, but NWO staff doesn't seem to get it right)
All of that HAMSTER come from the simplistic economic vision seeing time and boosters as money.
It's simplistic because it reduce their game lifespan, forcing them to improve boosters, making lifespan even shorter ... An obvious vicious.
A DC at 1.800 IL uses Astral Seal, BoB, Devine Glow, Breaking the Spirit, Astral Shield, Forgemaster FLame, Prophecy of Doom, Annoited Army. Apart from the lower heals and the lower Powerbuffs from AC paragon, those buffs are the same at 4k Il and at 1.8k IL. The class is easy to level and can do any conetent at low IL with ease, there is no need to have more survivablity.
Atm a DC at 1.8 IL outperforms every templock (even far better geared) in support, wich leads to an inefficient class.
Discussing about the grind and the bad economy of a F2P game (wich has to be that way) ?
Wrong game, go for another mmo. Pay monthly and get everything for free, wich is more commmon in those games.
F2P= grindy and timeintensive by that. Success depends on the effectiveness of your class and the time you spend playing that game.
If templock should be viable, he needs to be either:
1. buffed as a striker -> more damage, or
2. buffed in support
U mentioned other mmprpg.. Well my suggestion don't start it.. Or I will start writing 2 pages long posts about buffs, heals and their mehanics in other mmorpg.s
Even before stepped aside from game due some reason. Lot of times in Protector enclave players in LFG and zone writing..
LF DC<, SOme write Heal DC, some write buff/debuff DC. Some write LF> healer<. I respond to them and tell that I can heal..
And answer is>>>> U are warlock<<. There are still guys who don't know what temptation sw is at all, and that it can heal, it can buff, debuff and do decent dps.
So if your tempt is not popular, then I can say u that this mod 10 is attempt for tempt sw back tp buffers list.
<blockquote class="UserQuote">
Example:
DC: Less dps, more buffing
SW: More dps, less buffing
We just need to find a point where one doesnt overpower the other and both are more or less equally desirable. Because currently a SW templock is not as desirable as DCs and they(DC) are more effective in a party, by a large margin.
U are wrong..
Main difference betwen Dc and SW is.
SW is 1 pack. heal, buff/debuff.
DC. u have to pick. heal, buff/debuff or dps.
\
Next, SW is more areal healing/buffing and debuffing.
Whiel DC is more limited area buff/debuff,
Why DC is more desired than SW.. Well probably because are still lot of guys who don't know that temp sw is heal/buf/debuff tree from warlock class...
Players think that only DC is buffer/healer,,
What do u think I went through in first month after I respected to tempt sw? Do u think someone started aske me to buff them? Do u think after mod 10 went live guys in zone and lfg chats starting ask like LF >temp SW?
In first days I shocked lot of guys who went with me in epic dungeons..
Also where situation when I where kicked from party, so that undergeared, underdeveloped heal DC would take my place.. because they didn't knew that my temp could heal 3x more than that poor DC.
U want changes.. OK > I wrote suggestion for you. Write your build based around feats..
And don't try make DC rip off, Because that will not work. Also no one would pick tempt at all. Who need DC copy if u can pick real DC...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I really like how you are pasionnate about your class. You mentionned SW temp being as desirable (or even more so than DCs) and I would love to see that being demonstrated when you come back from vacations.
To plug a few numbers in, to prove that SW temp can be as good as a DC. Because from my experience they're far off. (Let alone not recognized in the queue system as a support to begin with).
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Run those dungeons as a templock with a tank and 3 dps. That´s actual content classes have to mess with and prove to be balanced and able to fullfill their role.
The templock will have huge problems doing so and you need to be very creative to protect your group from getting onehittet at the first 2 bosses. This only could work with a good tank, I recommend a GF , since prot Pally seems to be nerfed too hard
Beside the fact that those fights last longer there will be a lot of player kissing the ground and I doubt you will get past those two bosses easily. This only would work with 3 caster who step outside the aoe since TR and GWF allways stand inside that red zone and will go mad if they die after short time.
The last boss is the smallest problem, I watched a GWF´s tanking her (I saw that class also tanking Orcus 2 weeks ago).
Before the rework of warlock, the gap between Temptation and Fury was much smaller, now they do not play in the same league any more. Unitl mod 9 the templock was viable, since dps was ok and every dungeon could be easily done.
After TC fix the hole class will be from minor interest anyway.
So where is the point to run that tree? He can´t replace a DC/OP (until you prove me wrong) and he can´t replace a dps. The only place in a group is the fifth spot as supporter running beside a tank, an OP/DC and 2 dps, that would work, sure. But it is more like being tolerated than being wanted and hard to stand against classes like buffer CW or another high dps.
He is in between and is having a hard time to get a spot in actual content.
That´s why temptation needs a rework/buffs.
I don´t talk about elol or EsoT, those groups can be build random, and in case someone has a tankpet you can skip the tank also and I also do not talk about solo experience. And if someone says, I talk BS because he runs 24/7 T1 dungeons with a temptlock and is doing fine, I agree, go on run T1 have fun.
I think you nailed how I feel about the temptation specs.
Some groups dont even take tanks and healers in T1s and T2s, so being 'good' there hardly shows much IMO. CN is ok but still the real test is going to be FBI and svardborg raid.
Even at 3.4k iLv, I don't feel comfortable supporting a CN run all by myself... I did a few times and we had to range it, i was not able to keep the tank alive troughout the last boss fight.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
And no I am not passionate about temp at all.. I just annoyed when guys think that only DC is support class in neverwinter..
Queue system have flaws.. One of example, U have dps DC.. And its recognize as healer/buff/debuff but not as striker...
same as do not recognize sw as healer... All its becouse queue system look not to build trees or paragon path, but to class itself.
DC is support from lv 1. warlock is striker from lv 1. With paragon path, and build trees we adjust gameplay and certain powers.
Also now think about situation u have half feat points spent on fury, half for temp.. How system should recognize warlock? striker or supporter??
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Soulbinder supports, Hellbringer dps. Of course, I appreciate any other creative idea that would resolve effectively this problem
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
By your way, means we have to rework all classes.. Also have u even though what thats mean for damnation tree? By you its gone.
Here is simple idea..
U open queue windown., mark dungeon> in lower dungeon mame, add mini box/line with option to pick.
Striker<>Tank<>CC<>support
Support(heal, buff, debuff)
Striker (dps class),
Tank ( tankers)
CC (crowd controler)
When u pick one of them, for example I pick dps, thats mean queue system will view my character as striker. Regardless if I am DC or SW or CW..
Thats would avoid confusion within current queue sytem..
note: I know that this system can be abused in negative way... Some trolls would mark that their class is striker, while in fact he is healer... Or oposite,, Gwf register himself as supporter... But still its still less expensive in time and cost developmet wise..
Now lets look to your idea about Spliting in dps and support paragon paths.
Also as u notice the difference between SB and HB are not so big.
HB have
At will: hellish rebuke
Daily power: gate of hell
Encounter: pillar of power
Class features: Prince of hell, flame of empowerment, and no pity, no mercy
Feats:
Gatekeeper's Empowerment (Fury)
Power of the Nine H3lls (Damnation)
Hellish Condemnation (Temptation)
SB have
Mechanic: soul spark
At will: Essence Defiler
Daily power: Immolation spirit
Encounter: Soul Scorch
Class feature: Snuff Out, Borrowed Time and Dust to Dust.
Feats:
Burning Soul (Fury)
Sparkbinder (Damnation)
Vampiric Sparks (Temptation)
All other powers are shared. With same effects, same damage, everything same.
All other classes goes same way. So your suggestion is not like some changes,, it more less request to cut SW from game and redesing from scratch.
Remember in my older posts, I suggested you to write feat rework for tempt sw.
So far no posts u have wrote about that...
Now just for fun, try write 3 feat buils for your suggested sb(support) sw..
But be mind no DC + OP ripoff, u must keep SW in degree that DC and Op could compete with temptation.
So more less I hope your next or second post will contain at least 1 trees feat sets...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
2. By feats I assume you mean the last rows of temptation feats (to prevent splashing). In that case it could go many ways. If and only if this is looked upon and implemented, cryptic will make up those buffs and numbers on their own, most likely. Would they add more protection, more buff, more debuff? Nobody knows.
Couple of random ideas? Sure.
Protection -
Allies who take damage within 50ft gain a shield that grants them 10/20/30/40/50% of the warlock's max HP for 10s (Cooldown 20s)
When the warlock uses a daily power, him and allies 50ft around gain a 5/10/15/20/25% DR buff for 10s.
The warlock gains an aura that gives allies 50ft around 10/20/30/40/50% of his life steal chance. (replaces current life steal aura, 5% really isn't that noticeable.)
Buffs-
Using a daily power shares 5/10/15/20/25% of the warlock's power with nearby allies
The self-buff aspect of dreadtheft is shared with your group for its duration and 4s afterwards
(...)
List goes on. In the end, we won't be making the choices of percentages and what powers will come into play. Cryptic will - those are merely ideas...
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Striker and supporter roles are different, and thus feats also must be different..
Your ideas so far, are same as OP's, dc's and gf's. By adding their buffs to SW u kill reason to play with other support class.. And thats what i don't want to happen.
Also by writting suggestion stay on ground.. no need go so wild.. If I would go that why,, I would not even bother with feats.. I would suggest add warlock GM's powers.. Thats mean u enter dungeon, give middle finger to any enmy and obliderate/anihilate all dungeon with couple slaps... But think does its fair from other class view point?
So when u build up your suggestions, look to them from other class view point..
Imagine u overbuff one class.. Do u think DC's, gf's, op's community stay happy? They would overflood with rage/complains of overpowered warlock and demand nerfing.. Which mean cutting your suggested powers..
So write feats at start. Not encounters, nother daily powers, not class features.. Just feats sets.. From first to last one..
And once again I repeat.. No copy paste from other classes.. Unless u bring similar effect with other way.
p.s I will write something latter.. I have work to do...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
That way staying consistent and not walk over other classes & parangon will be easy.
Let me make a ROUGH try as an example
Problematic is : in NWO universe a SW is a devil's magic user
- Furylock is oriented to damaging (over time), using curses to deal and improve damage.
- Damnlock is oriented to necromency --> As Soulbinder have "sould sparks" therfore it look like, for consistency, dev's should have inverted the "3 parangons" with the 2 paths "Hellbringer & Soulbinder" (multi & single target).
- Templock is oriented to ... Oriented to what ? Heal (an overflowing low quality heal) ? Debuff (was always weak) ? Buff (not really as it's only in mod10 that PoP made it decent) ? --> Only solution would be for me to say Temptation is a "support". (That's horribly unclear, and it's no surprise Temptation was never in a good shape as it look like a stand-in paragon.)
Then I'll start by reworking the inconsistencies on the 2 first paragons and the 2 paths inversion, creating a 3rd new paragon for both. This new 3rd parangon (with small distinctions between paths) could be a support parangon (as temptation), but I think that will be a mistake as it will bring once more inconsistency (my tastes for this 3rd parangon, will be something wicked ^^ ). After that rework the Temptation as a Path.There is another inconsistency, that became obvious I start to think about it : The tab mechanic must be distinct and dependent of the path.
Paths, Tab and Parangon Capstone
- Curser Path (fury as path)
- Single target --> Capstone = ~70% additionnal DoT on Cursed targets (as current fury capstone)
- Multi target --> Capstone = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets is dealts to foes in ~20'
- Wicked --> Capstone = ~30% damage received by cursed target is : send back & provide heal over time
- Soul Path (damnation as path) with soul sparks mecanism & soul puppet
- Single target --> Capstone = ~70% additionnal DoT on Cursed targets by warlock and puppet
- Multi target --> Capstone = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets is dealts to foes in ~20'
- Wicked --> Capstone = ~30% damage received by cursed target (on warlock or soul puppet) is : send back & provide heal over time (for warlock or puppet)
- Support Path (temptation as path)
- Single target --> Capstone = ~70% damage done on Cursed targets as Tempoary Hit Points decreasing fast for allies in 20' ( and for warlock? )
- Multi target --> Capstone = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets as Heal for allies in 20' ( and for warlock? )
- Wicked --> Capstone = ~30% damage received by Cursed targets is : send back & provide Heal Over Time for allies in 20' including warlock
Remark : I can add some statistiques to work as these capstone efficiency (like is used LifeSteal% for current temptation capstone healing).[Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Death Curse, improving damage dealt ~20% for the warlock (same as curent cursing system)
[Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Soul Curse, improving damage dealt ~10% for the warlock and the puppet
Remark : Curse also designate the first(s) target(s) to attack for the puppet
Remark : The more spark you have the stronger the puppet will be
[Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Leech Curse, reducing the target DR and damage by ~5% for everyone
Next go for feats, logic would be to start to choose ~3 powers to enhance for each parangon (it's better if it's one for each path). Then work on remaining feats with synergies/combo in mind AND balance some feat between defence/offence (glass cannon are just the same HAMSTER as invincible walls are).
(I might edit this post to add some feats)
Remark : If I wanted to be more consistent I would rework powers too (with animations and visuals matching the path and parangon, cuz it's depend on the deity the contract was formed with).
Alot of very interesting ideas, the more we provide the better.
I particularly like how you clearly show the lack of role for the temptation warlock. It can't support a group properly, debuff/buffs are lacking, dps is lacking.. So why is it desirable?
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Thanks !
I'm not that sure if posting can be usefull at all. At least not until some counter measures are made for their management bosses to set dev's direction more in a quality gaming than in a quantity gaming. Errr ! No ! I never said temptation warlock can't support a group properly !
(Since mod10 I'm doing that quite efficiently with my 2.5k cutie*)
I only said they never tough properly about Temptation and constructed this paragon as a stand-in and that's why it suffered and changed too mutch through mods.
*Remark: No one can use FBI&cie content with it's completly insane requirement of 3.1k & specific gear as a reference content. Why (would ask schietindebux&cie) ? Simply because never a common free player will be masochistic enough to get to that level without rage quiting this half failed game.
(Sadly nearly same thing can be said for pvp ...)
@denvald where is feat set for your SB warlock? Also don't forget by moving debuff/buff/heal factores to SB u need fill gap to HB paths feat sets.. So u will had at least 1 tree build from scratch...
And I can bet u haven't even though about that..
@duckntroll wrote nice suggestion. Hower this for fun feat set writing was ment for u denvald. To get in dev view point, and try make suggestions which would be balanced and do not kill other classes.
But I can see simply u have no idea what to do with temp balancing at all..
p.s sorry for late respond,, due work I can't be active, and also I losing interesting in nwo...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Bottom line, the more ideas we give the devs, the more we post about what works and what doesn't, the more likely they will notice and do something about it. Cryptic has shown that they will do something about it, we just can't expect the changes to come immediately
Andy has said they want to do something about temptation but they couldn't do it at the same time as the m10 rework (Iirc). So their intention is there. I'm actually fairly interested in seeing you doing that. CN sounds good enough. Lower level dungeons seems to me as the role of support isn't required in alot of groups so showing me a T1/T2 doesnt really prove anything IMO.
I'm sorry man I have no idea what you're asking of me?
I'm not a SB warlock, and I do believe my build is right, i know the current feats pretty well by now because I mained warlock since m4. I'm talking about the class as a whole not just my character?
Are you asking that I show you my build... ? I don't get it.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
After all spliting dps and support in 2 path feat sets must be reworked. Also HB obviously will had to replace temptation tree, because its mostly about healing, buffing and debuffing, and since HB only dps = it must be removed and replaced with other dps one...
It would not be so hard,, take already written feats from your old thread, rework to met current mod expectations and thats it.. I think that matter will takes up to 18 min. perhaps even less.
As for your old suggestion thread. I was reading that when it was popular for certain parts. After all your thread it that time was simply gathering and compilation of your and other players ideas, which u latter updated/changed. But more less still due low SW population was simply forgoten. And I even wondering why u haven't rewrote your old thread? I mean update it, expand/develop even more. Why stop in middle of process, keep going.
Games are not developed in one night. U write/cut/twist/change some parts during development process. Personall I know that coolest and best ideas comes in middle of development. So I its not like I don't like your idea. Simply I know that some stuff would require more time and money and in the end will lead to power adjustment to make sure other supporter stay viable in game.
TT rework which happened in mod 10 is simplty coincidences. If you read @amenar posts in preview server u would knew that TT since start it was planned to be single target curse. Not multiple one. Thats mean its not like your suggestion was taken, but simply @amenar fixed long forgoten glitch.
One of my older games prior raiderz and prior NWO had nice testing system..
U pick class for testing and u have thread/post where are writen all powers, how much stats increase/decrease. Which other stats stack or boost up other powers and so one.. On top we had special notifications that to test how certain power goes with other class buffs/debuffs and in that notifications where listed/written devs expectations how it should work. All powers who goes out of expected tolerance are reported.
Here in nwo testings is just trolling. To be fair, I can't find full detailed info about Pillar of Power. Thats mean how much percentage damage boost we get. Mostly data comes from test players speculations. So more less its not clear do it work as dev planed or not...
So more less TT sine start was bugged and worked not as planned. And all due devs fault...
p.s sorry for bad english, and late responding. Writing with phone is annoying stuff...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
As a SB, i want to remain striker!
Only temptation path, whatever the paragon, should be support.
Honestly I think most feats are all right now. Maybe a few of them (Snuff out for example) are still underperforming IMO. But overall I think the current feats are fine.
The differenciation (Based upon my idea) would be encounter powers. Encounter powers would have different effects depending on your paragon - Soulbinder and Hellbringer would have different effects on their encounter powers' curse synergy/consume to better fit their appropriate roles.
In that line of idea, only the temptation capstone would be reworked to not grant any healing, because Soulbinder would take on the supporter role, Temptation would become a buff/debuff tree.
Basicly a HB temptation wouldn't heal, they would dps/buff/debuff
And a SB temptation would be a heal/protection(because SB)/buff/debuff(because temptation). To differenciate SB warlocks from other support roles, they would have a balanced trade off of less effective support to make up for their higher personnal DPS.
At least that's my idea. As for what temptation new capstone? A very desirable effective buff would do it. Exactly how it would work? Not sure, I'll post later when I have more inspiration lol.
As for merging this thread with my old one, its not a bad idea. I hadn't thought about it and I might ask a forum mod to do it for me... (if possible). Anyways
Thanks for the ideas
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
How else can we make support warlocks recognized by the queue system as a support role?
Any ideas are appreciated
Thanks
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Thanks for appreciating these (not really well researched) ideas of mine !
I agree that for the moment I haven't a very precise idea of what I would like Temptation to be, mainly due to it's "stand-in" paragon nature. Therefore balancing it in a way it doesn't collide with other classes roles while keeping SW nature is quite complex.
The main problem of balancing a support class is that all kind of support already exist (heal, tank & buff/debuff). However the "amount", "repartition", "way of providing" and "synergy" are all open for imagination !
Goal now is to make something with that, that match the SW nature in a really distinctive way.
I think there is one mechanics really specificity for SW, it's the "unstable position" of SW mechanics.
- Over time damage bonus for Fury capstone
- Having expectation on a not so performing puppet for damnation
- Long recharge time for powers
- Hellbringer encounter PillarOfPower (Standing still and eating attacks for a class that isn't a tank)
Honnestly, given the risk an "unbalanced position" ask then SW results MUST be over-performing others classes when they both focus everything on the same aspect. ( After it's always possible to make impossible for SW to focus everything on a single aspect, making it even or under-performing on the main aspect but having other secondary aspect. )After some thinking I got : The "unstable position" would be the "way of providing", the "amount" should be "over-performing" if some not easy to set conditions are met. These "conditions" are the "synergy". For the remaining "repartition", I need to keep my idea of a Temptation as a Path with 3 distinct Paragon, it allow those Paragon to each have their own forte (main role) between support roles (heal, tank & buff/debuff).
Putting some tough to rework a little my previous Temptation ideas, in a more challenging way it became like this (I added a 4th parangon to imagine all support role cases) :
[Tab Mechanics] Put up to 1/2/3 Leech Curse, reduce target DR and damage by ~3/6/9/12/15% for everyone
(It increase by 3% for 10 seconds each time you LifeSteal the target, min 3% & max 15%)
- [TANK FORTE] Single target --> Capstone "Blood Shield" ~75% damage done on Cursed targets as Tempoary Hit Points decreasing fast for warlock and half value for allies in range
- Some feat to add threat : Tempoary hit points generated count for threat
- Some not easy feat to slow tempoary hit points decrease speed for warlock and/or allies : Taking damage stop decrease speed for 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5 seconds
- [HEAL FORTE] Multi target --> Capstone "Vampire's Sharing" = ~30% damage done on Cursed targets as Heal for allies in range and half for warlock
- Some not easy feat to increase healing efficiency :
- [DEBUFF HEAL FORTE] Wicked --> Capstone "Devil's Red Glow" = ~30% damage received by Cursed targets on warlock is : send back for half and other half provide Heal Over Time for warlock and allies in range
- Some not easy feat to decrease foes defence capability : when eating damage
- [BUFF FORTE] Weaked --> Capstone "Hell Madness" = reduction of ~20% damage done by the warlock on Cursed targets is given as bonus damage to all allies
- Some not easy feat to increase damage : increase combat advantage bonus ( by 1/2/3/4/5% ? I'm not sure about CA scaling )
Remark :(all allies add the same 20% of damage the warlock didn't make, therefore if there is 4 allies they will do 4*20%=80% damage)
It scale with level (for companion) and disapear if not used after some time
I should have added some increasing/descreasing condition for Capstone too, but it's time for me to sleep.EDIT : In fact Capstone are Curse dependant, therfore they already aren't easy to activate. The remaining problem is about the lesser curse, should it also provide 100% of Capstone or a reduced effect (that can increase depending on a condition/statistic) ?
REMARK : When doing some PvP (I'm forced to do it otherwise I'dl never set foot in a game mode that's so unfair) I see that the Warlock Curse that I put disapear really easily (especially on TR using the smoke attack). SW are already bad for pve, worst for pvp, and if their major mechanic disapear every 10 second then you will never see any SW doing PvP (except troll build, running extremly fast from all action) ...
As for you Duckntroll, I can bet u could write long, well balanced ideas for warlock rework...
Also I notice that when I stop writing here, this all thread become more less dead... :P
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
We are what, like 5 active Templock on the forum at most ? Naturaly if one stop posting, forum go to death.
If they really want to rework Templock, they must AT THE VERY LEAST create something equal to my suggestions, in terms of fun and potential.
If they additionnally do something challenging ( like my idea of not so easy reward to overpower other classes going easy ), then templock (and SW) will have a permanent pool of players liking harder gaming.
Otherwise it's better they do nothing if it's just doing those ridiculous
balancing/nerfs SW got hit by in mod10, it will only mean trashing Temptation once again. It's not that we aren't used to, but it will be too mutch, templock will be a definitive NOGO.By your way, means we have to rework all classes.. Also have u even though what thats mean for damnation tree? By you its gone.
this system (1 healler, 1 tank & 3 DPS) is already here.
but. it's a little... wry. for exmple its still doesn't know where to put Executioner TR in party. (oh, are you a tank? a supporter? maybe controller, who are you, rogue??) So for first system is searching for DC, OP (healer) and GF, OP (tanking) - because it know it 100% right. But when DC has gone system still looking for some other healer or supposter. any one and there is party joined some HR (hello! here i am!) or SW (need some cookies?).
So system can recognize SW as a healler and HR as a supporter. 1 healler and 1 tank for now is 1 suported and 1 else any supporter. And it can be OK if there is not 2 TR and 3 GWF who can't go without real tank or healler. But in the same time I can tanking 2nd boss of CN witn my low SW healler and some trapper HR. Yes I can, but party sayed: you have low DPS and we need tank. But in real they don;t need a tank - they needs buffs maybe, more DPS from DD classes maybe. I'm OK with healing but people used to see DC as healler even if he will be 2k item level too.
So we have a problem, people can't see us as Healer.
It think will be good if near to character's icon in party will be some mark of Healer or supporter identification.
but some classes (as TR, HR) can't be a healer or tank, they just haven't any variation of heal or take damage. they can be recognized as controller-supporter only, so they shoudn't take a place of Healer or Tank only as 3th support class. because on boss fight TR can't tank boss, and HR can't heal a party. IMHO.
Also
DC: Less dps
SW: More dps
don't think so. if we have DPS DC for exemple in Divine Oracle path and SW in Temtation, who will be a better DD?
aslo yes I have a DC also and he can doing damage (as well as 3k CW) but in random party he is still healer and I can't say that i want damaging, I should sometimes heal party even if Im 1st rank in damage list. because in this party I'm a healer too. I remember only one time system rolled me as DD in party with OP (healing) and GF. It was for 1 time only.
I sad about it but I still understand for real that i don't want to see little DD cleric's as DD in my party and still as I staying as DC supporter I will doing my homble role of supporter.
Aslo people see me as DC and they are waiting for healing, buffs. but if under my icon will be a mark of DPS-er they could understand that i'm not a healer only.