PS4: Can someone explain the Dungeon System to me??

frystrike · October 2016

Dear Fighters for Neverwinter,

a few weeks ago I turned 70 with my cleric made a few dungeons (waiting time about 2 mins, for sure as a heal) and everything went well I would say, some epics where easy some where not so easy, you know.

So then I thought yes great want to make some damage and play things like campaigns and so on my own without help, so I made a GWF. So far so good as DPS class waiting time is, ehm yes I know not that fast :-)

Now to my point. If you want to matchmake it says: 1 Tank, 1 Heal, 3 DPS

So HOW the F**** can it be that there are damn 5 DPS in the group??? I think I was in 20 dungeons so far with my GWF and about 2 completions, if I matchmake with my heal everything is as normal 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 DPS. But if Im in with my DPS there are only DPS or sometimes 1 Tank, 4 DPS or 1 Heal and 4 DPS or as I said 5 DPS

So if Im waiting 20 mins to join a group OK it is like this, but if Im in a group I also want to do the Dungeon... but that is not possible.

You get my point? Someone same exp.? FYI Im on PS4

Sorry but that is stupid and makes no fun at all... As I said two completions, 18 losses as the group was not what it system says it should.

prudie · October 2016

I think there is a bug with the group composition if somebody drops out (and this are usually healers and tanks losing their patience). The dungeonfinder takes the first one from the queue without considering their class, so you end up with 5 dps at the one of the bosses.
A fresh group was for me always a tank, heal, 3dps group. The easiest epic (Kessel's Retreat) is always a standard group, the other dungeons basically always a broken group in the middle of the dungeon.

ravenskya · October 2016

It takes 1 Tank, 1 Healer and 3 DPS to START a dungeon. If people quit then the next person in line gets put in no matter what role they fill. After the Tanks/Healers leave you always end up with all DPS.

frystrike · October 2016

oh wow that is a pretty stupid system. Thanks for your answers...

mebengalsfan · October 2016

The other problem is this, you may see a DC there but it does not mean they are a healer. You may see a GF there, it does not mean they are a tank. Players can setup there character to be a DPS regardless of the class, therefore you never know what role the player has setup their character to be and if they are willing to modify their build to play a support role.

I ran a dungeon with a healing SW and was able to play as a DPS on my DC. It was nice for a change to play as a DPS that still did some healing but mostly buffing.

I play my GF as a tanking type DPS for solo and skirmishes and it works well. I am not last as a DPS nor am I first as GF until mod 10 did not means to take top spot as a DPS. Now with mod 10, GF are the strongest DPS from what I have been told.

I am playing a CW and I can feel that that class is not solely a DPS like many think. It is also a support class. When I run content with a CW things go smoother due to the class ability to control crowds and it makes epic dungeons easier and helps the group out due to less damage to player, making it easier on the healer and less damage to the tank, so he can pull more threat.

Over all to me in this game there are three support roles and not 2 like many think. I think dungeons should have all three and than 2 DPS.

Support Roles: Leaders, Defenders, and Controllers
DPS: Strikers

I think all classes should have a support role and a DPS role and we should be able to swap between them using some type of button. This way it is an easier for ques and players to play both roles. Other MMOs do it, why not NW?

fizgigtiznalkie · October 2016

They should also make the control stuff not worthless in some dungeons.

frystrike · October 2016

Yeah for sure I understand your point, mostly if Palas or DCs are in the dungeon everything goes smooth only because of the supports or aggro they can do besides their playing style. But if you are in with 2 GWF and 3 hunters or magicans that really is no fun, then i try kiting the enemys but mostly this is not workable. My GWF is only skilled for DPS so no Tank/DPS Hybrid class. But it is really stupid to play with this system... Because as a said if a DC and or PALA is with us everything works well also if they dont heal or tank it still works but without them Im lost...

bandrashu · October 2016

There should be an option somewhere to be able to decide whether you want to start the dungeon from the very beginning or joining a group that has already made some progress is ok as well.

In most of the cases when the group set up is messed up you join a group thats already started that given dungeon and somebody dropped. Then the whole matchmaking system fails and the group is left either with no healer or tank.

To avoid this you can spam the LFG chat in the Enclave and then you will find proper groups ...though that might take a bit longer.

mebengalsfan · October 2016

frystrike#7883 said:
Yeah for sure I understand your point, mostly if Palas or DCs are in the dungeon everything goes smooth only because of the supports or aggro they can do besides their playing style. But if you are in with 2 GWF and 3 hunters or magicans that really is no fun, then i try kiting the enemys but mostly this is not workable. My GWF is only skilled for DPS so no Tank/DPS Hybrid class. But it is really stupid to play with this system... Because as a said if a DC and or PALA is with us everything works well also if they dont heal or tank it still works but without them Im lost...

The reason is most DC and Pally have some type of buff to help the group out. That plays a big role in making content easier. Same with a GF. If the GF has the gear to help them heal and knows when to guard and has the right feats, ecounters, and dailies along with the gear no healer is needed. I ran Malaborg without a healer just fine on my DPS/Tank hybrid GF. It was a challenge mostly on the 2nd boss but the CW we had really helped with stunning the adds.

Going in with 5 DPS I heard it can be done but most of those runs are with 3K+ players.

ravenskya · October 2016

We've done LoL with 4 DPS and my healadin - it worked but I spent most of the time kiting and throwing out heals as I could. Where we had trouble was the lazer beams since I can't take all of them. I can survive them about half of the time but if he crits at all I'm dead. And not all DPS are great at dodging them. We finished it but it certainly wasn't a pretty match.

cajun4life78 · October 2016

This is why they either need to change the way ques are done for dungeons and etc, or start putting penalties are people who abandon dungeons and etc. Everytime I go into Tiamat, people are for ever leaving that thing, I have even seen people leave demogorgon, and you always see people, especially tanks and healers, leave dungeons. Enough is enough already, either help people understand the fight to help everyone get through it, or just don't play the game you selfish people. It is time to penalize these people and make this game better.

hartrek · October 2016

In my opinion the queueing system is totally broken for epics. You might be lucky and get into a group with decent players or you aren't and things happen. What makes things worse is the incredible step-up difficulty wise. Where you can easily do the last levelling dungeon with the suggested lvl range using the queueing, it is virtually impossible with the higher dungeons if you don't bring your own group. All ilvl 1600 with a random group? Ridiculous. I'm now a CW ilvl 2400+ and if I get mixed in with too many ilvl 1600 chars, I'm dead faster than I can say "help".

terrordactyl · October 2016

Avoid the queues. Always join a group through the chat in Protectors Enclave, or Mentol Derith for Demogorgon, or Well of Dragons for Tiamat

frystrike · October 2016

Will try my best :-)

hartrek · October 2016

Thank you for the hints on Demo and Tiamat.
But while you are of course right, the fact remains that there is a queueing system and I wonder why it's here. In my opinion the devs should either remove it for epics completely or (better) finally listen to the users and do something about it. I wonder how many players are totally frustrated after they reach ilvl 1600 and see that the queueing system which worked just fine a minute ago (non-epics) is suddenly basically just killing them.

terrordactyl · October 2016

Queues can be ok if you already have a tank and healer and just want to pickup one more random

mebengalsfan · October 2016

hartrek#9713 said:
Thank you for the hints on Demo and Tiamat.
But while you are of course right, the fact remains that there is a queueing system and I wonder why it's here. In my opinion the devs should either remove it for epics completely or (better) finally listen to the users and do something about it. I wonder how many players are totally frustrated after they reach ilvl 1600 and see that the queueing system which worked just fine a minute ago (non-epics) is suddenly basically just killing them.

It isn't the queing system it is the lack of proper gear and knowledge of mechanics.

The later is more important than the gear. Also, I seen many new level 70 characters that simply don't pay attention to mechanics and make a simple run impossible.

hartrek · October 2016

Somehow, what I wanted to say came out wrong.
You are right of course. There are a lot of issues with the players and their characters. And that's probably true to a certain degree for me, too. Partly, because this game is surprisingly very complex, which I really appreciate.
What I meant is, in addition to these issues, there is the additional crazy increase in difficulty between the levelling and the epic dungeons. And to make things worse, the queuing system is not helping.
And while we cannot really help the first issue, there is already a lot of good suggestions in this forum allone, how to improve the other two problems.

frystrike · October 2016

Yes as I said Im level 70 not that long the normal dungeons easy peasy so to say with a GWF you could do it on your own. But if you are level 70 your gear is about 1300 so you have no currencies to buy anything, then you go to the auction and buy the highest things you get, that dont even fit in the play style and you are 1600 to get into the dungeons, if you get into a dungeon most of the tanks and healers leave if they see some low levels the other ones leave after first wype or if the mechanics have been done wrong 1 time as in the dwarfs scrimmish where the mobs have to storm into the prisons... So I also have a DC on level 70 with about 1700 GS no problem for me to get a group and finish the dungeon and I also never left the game as things got hard, I also tried to heal the hunters and warpriests after the tank died and then tried it again and again I think sometimes I hade 5 groups in 1 dungeon. I dont know whats up with the people and what they think they are... So also started this game earliest in July (PS4 player) and had also low gear and failed run after run, therefore I do not understand why they dont give others a chance to proceed, as you have NO chance because they always leave the dungeon. It is very hard to get help because all think they are god or I dont know.

The queing system is sh**** and I ended the game at the evening only because of this. The matchmaking let me think about droping and deinstalling the game as there is no big chance to proceed...

hartrek · October 2016

Yesterday I tried to get some guild buddies to do Kessel with me, but nobody had the time. So I ended up in the queue again and, surprisingly, both runs were a no brainer.
But of course Kessel is arguably the easiest one cause it doesn't need any real tactics. And we were a few people well over 2k. Doesn't change the fact that the queing system is broken.
Apparently there are lots of people who want to do epics but can't find the people to do it with them and end up in the queue. There has to be a better way as long as the queing system isn't improved. I just don't have the right idea. As @terrordactyl said, some groups can be arranged when asking in the appropriate zone chat. But for most, the most appropriate zone would be Protectors Enclave and that's of course a no go due to the amount of chat traffic there. The best solution would be to have an extra chat channel for each of the epics but that's not possible atm afaik. Any other ideas?

hartrek · October 2016

One other solution might be the new alliance chat. But at least in our alliance all I've seen up to now is people asking for ilvl 2.5 upwards. So a no go for fresh lvl 70 toons.

hartrek · October 2016

frystrike#7883 said:
(...) so you have no currencies to buy anything, (...)

There is one thing though, you can do. Just do all the available deamonic HE in Dread Ring, Well of Dragons and Icewind Dale. You have to be careful not to run into the normal critters there. But if you are, you can run along other strong people and patricipate. That should be pretty easy most of the time, though it needs a bit getting used to.
For each encounter you get three different currencies. Two of which you can directly use to buy stuff. The third one (Called Fearzers?) is for campaign progression. It's a bit of a grind but totally doable. And they even removed the weekly cap on Daemonic Ichor in Patch 10. With Daemonic Ichor you can buy pretty strong gear in the Underdark hub. WHat is it called again? Something Derrith, or something?
And, if you don't have VIP, get it. Convert ADs into ZEN if you have to and buy a monthly subscription. It's totally doable with levelling dungeons and skirmishes allone. The daily box key lets you open one box a day and each one contains rade Bars. After a time you end up having enough Trade Bars to get a pretty nifty armor at the Trade Bars Merchant.

bekiatashi · October 2016

im a cleric and i only abandon the dungeon when the tank is gone. its foolish to finish it by 1 healer and 4 dps. the system is not perfect but it has it uses. sometimes you get lucky and get a decent group, most of the time its not the case. but ive learned a lot just by using it with a lot of players who dont have other options. if i ave time to burn i just stay in PE and wait for people looking for group members and pm them no fuss.

terrordactyl · October 2016

frystrike#7883 said:
Yes as I said Im level 70 not that long the normal dungeons easy peasy so to say with a GWF you could do it on your own. But if you are level 70 your gear is about 1300 so you have no currencies to buy anything, then you go to the auction and buy the highest things you get, that dont even fit in the play style and you are 1600 to get into the dungeons, if you get into a dungeon most of the tanks and healers leave if they see some low levels the other ones leave after first wype or if the mechanics have been done wrong 1 time as in the dwarfs scrimmish where the mobs have to storm into the prisons... So I also have a DC on level 70 with about 1700 GS no problem for me to get a group and finish the dungeon and I also never left the game as things got hard, I also tried to heal the hunters and warpriests after the tank died and then tried it again and again I think sometimes I hade 5 groups in 1 dungeon. I dont know whats up with the people and what they think they are... So also started this game earliest in July (PS4 player) and had also low gear and failed run after run, therefore I do not understand why they dont give others a chance to proceed, as you have NO chance because they always leave the dungeon. It is very hard to get help because all think they are god or I dont know.

The queing system is sh**** and I ended the game at the evening only because of this. The matchmaking let me think about droping and deinstalling the game as there is no big chance to proceed...

That's not really true. You can easily get to 2700 IL solo, just by completing all campaigns and boons solo. A bit of research on youtube will show you how to optimise your AD earnings to get the gear you need. At 2700 with all or most boons completed you will find the epic dungeons quite easy. The problem comes when people expect to walk through epic dungeons the moment they hit gear score 1600...it's just not possible.

You can't really expect someone at 3000 IL to stay in a team of 1600's. He wants to be in a high level group that can burn through 5 or 6 dungeons per hour. Why is it his job to babysit you through a dungeon you aren't ready for? Get your campaigns and boons done, then you will be ready.

randomkeyhits · October 2016

terrordactyl#4367 said:

That's not really true. You can easily get to 2700 IL solo, just by completing all campaigns and boons solo. A bit of research on youtube will show you how to optimise your AD earnings to get the gear you need. At 2700 with all or most boons completed you will find the epic dungeons quite easy. The problem comes when people expect to walk through epic dungeons the moment they hit gear score 1600...it's just not possible.

You can't really expect someone at 3000 IL to stay in a team of 1600's. He wants to be in a high level group that can burn through 5 or 6 dungeons per hour. Why is it his job to babysit you through a dungeon you aren't ready for? Get your campaigns and boons done, then you will be ready.

This is what I'm working through and its a lot clearer now with the revised campaign list. Before that came out I was thinking "try this? oh...... hamsters........." my main is now passing through 1900 ilvl but what is a reasonable starting IL for the epics? I've avoided them so far simply because I always want to contribute, not hinder but at some point I've got to start getting some experience in them as getting to IL 2700 is gonna take a while.

ravenskya · October 2016

For pugging I'd say about 2k since you never know what you are going to get. If you are with an experience group we take people through LoL with 1800 all the time.

randomkeyhits · October 2016

Thanks, not in a guild or anything so a pug life for me, will be interesting. Won't take long to hit 2k so I guess I'd better ready up.

ravenskya · October 2016

You can try it at lower IL, you just have to set aside a lot of time, stock up on injury kits and cross your fingers that you get good teammates

frystrike · October 2016

You can't really expect someone at 3000 IL to stay in a team of 1600's. He wants to be in a high level group that can burn through 5 or 6 dungeons per hour. Why is it his job to babysit you through a dungeon you aren't ready for? Get your campaigns and boons done, then you will be ready.

Yes and exact this is the problem Im talking about, even if IM level 2500 im unexperienced in the dungeon, so HOW shall someone proceed, get better gear, get experienced if they meet people with this attitude in the que? It is like we want someone with 5 years exp in our company but dont give him the chance to earn 5 years exp... You know what Im mean, and this is wrong on the que and with the gaming community... Anyone reaches level 3000 or 3500 or idk and means he is the best, once he passes the line, he forgets how he startet with level 1 or in this case level 70. Even this guys have startet with level 1300 and needed the chance to proceed... The game is not made to go alone thats why it is called MMO...

hartrek · October 2016

Well, I'm always told to actively look for strategies myself. There are *some* on the net. And I've been told, there are useful Yuotube videos to watch. And don't take it that seriously. Every ilvl 3000 char queuing up doesn't hava an issue with lower chars. They *prefer* better. But thy wouldn't pug if they were completely against it. They just expect you to know the basics or simply to follow orders

. You have to swallow it though, if they are pi**ed when the group wiped b/c of you. So what? It's a game.

frystrike · October 2016

Yeah follow their orders? PS4 players have in 99% a not working headphone... the mechanics are more than easy get out the red and everything works fine... So that relly is not the problem. But still if I know everything and even my score was 3900 I couldnt do the game without heal and tank... At the moment I have ivl 2100 and still I only do scrimmish because I dont need tank and heal. with my GWF I have completed the 70+ dungeons 2times never did an epic because of named reasons. with my heal 1700 ilvl everything works fine in queing...

Gáleah Elóthanil	Female	Sun Elf	CW	70	2500
Hartrek Runemaster	Male	Dwarf	GF	70	2300
Faeruil	Female	Drow	TR	70	1600

Gáleah Elóthanil	Female	Sun Elf	CW	70	2500
Hartrek Runemaster	Male	Dwarf	GF	70	2300
Faeruil	Female	Drow	TR	70	1600

Gáleah Elóthanil	Female	Sun Elf	CW	70	2500
Hartrek Runemaster	Male	Dwarf	GF	70	2300
Faeruil	Female	Drow	TR	70	1600

Gáleah Elóthanil	Female	Sun Elf	CW	70	2500
Hartrek Runemaster	Male	Dwarf	GF	70	2300
Faeruil	Female	Drow	TR	70	1600

Gáleah Elóthanil	Female	Sun Elf	CW	70	2500
Hartrek Runemaster	Male	Dwarf	GF	70	2300
Faeruil	Female	Drow	TR	70	1600

PS4: Can someone explain the Dungeon System to me??

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