They have ignored feedback for the last few months including mod 10 grind/gating levels. so what does it matter.
We all feel defeated , they have beat us all down.
Its I guess the decision that is next for many of us.
It is terribly freeing to leave a mmo I will tell you that.. Ive done it several times. Usually take 5-6 months off and just enjoy actual life again. Puts games into perspective. If you are complementing that road, there might be a guide on how to quit the game right over at the site that shall not be named, there is a post about it already.
.... Most players in the game (that take part in Mod 10 content) will make more ad and progress their toons faster and cheaper than they ever did before (except exploiters or people that had leadership/invokation armies). The ONLY reason that is the case is because of the "grind/gating" related to the new armor and weapons.
This ONE time the devs finally let the gating/grinding benefit the majority of the Players in the game.. and not just their Zen sells.
Think a little bit deeper than the surface level.
You do realise it is only going to work if people actually do want to grind? I personally am a big grinder. Always maxed out campaigns on first possible day on my main and usually on alts not long after. But the new content is fishing not dungeons and while I agree there's potential for making AD here, I am not convinced it will be that fun. The effort required for a single svardborg run is disproptionate to the rewards. And all other content will be less attractive. But all in all that's perhaps a moot point - there is a trust issue here. You are of course free to give someone distrustworthy your money. But most I expect will not.
Just to update for those not watching the Preview Forums. There is another discussion of this change going on there about the actual testing of this change. Where-in Terramak stated the following:
Dungeon Key Chest Changes The changes announced in the Dungeon Key Changes thread are now on the Preview shard. Instead of being able to preview the rewards without spending a key, the player will now receive the rewards immediately upon opening the chest, consuming the key in the process.
While the change has succeeded in initial testing, it'd be appreciated for players on Preview who use this system to keep an eye out and give feedback on the experience - for instance, whether opening it while the inventory is full works as one would expect, whether there are rare cases where the player doesn't receive the items shown in the chest reward UI, or if the rewards from certain locations have unexpectedly changed.
Thanks for the feedback, folks. Most of the changes in this Preview update are from closer to the beginning of this week (as suggested by the build version), and we'll continue to keep an eye on the comments and questions.
As a general comment: As always, please treat your fellow players - your fellow people - with respect. While a significant bug (the dungeon key chest issue) is being addressed this update, as mentioned in the original post, we understand that some players have come to rely on this bug, and the nature of it caused some to perceive it as standard functionality.
I do not expect to pursue use of this functionality as an exploit. We understand that players are still putting time and energy into this content, whether or not they choose to use a key, and some may choose to do so until the moment the live servers go down for the module release.
Personally, I just hope folks don't burn themselves out from the feeling that they have to make optimal use of this bug before the module update.
How is this a Bug? YOU (Zebular) literally said 2 years ago "Oh, just decline if you don't like what is in the box and it will save your key". Please, sir, explain that one. If you knew about it for 2 years, how in the holy hell is this a bug that is just now being fixed?
Players want to make a statement about the change, and general poor customer relations?
BOYCOTT NOV 8th ... don't login, at all.
Twitter it, facebook it, reddit it, use Banned website, call your friends, get the word out via guild mail, quote the above line in reply to this thread, shout it in zone chat, whatever it takes
Unless the players unite and speak with one voice, to both the cryptic executives responsible for maintaining profit and their shareholders, nothing will change.
One day won't killl their business, but the communication sure can be measured. It'll likely never happen b/c gamers love to whine about these changes but do nothing about it.
PS - took a screenshot of this post to follow up on censorship next. ;-)
It's really hard to imagine this was a "bug". Any bug that had allowed us to save keys we paid zen for would have been fixed immediately, not left for years. This is nothing but an attempt to boost key sales in the zen market. It's also going to fail. Why? It made some sense to keep a key around for the times when something good popped up in the reward window. But that actually occurs far, far too infrequently to make it worth wasting a key on the reward from the second chest most of the time. Even at the new price of 50 zen you are far better off just selling the zen for ADs then wasting it on the chest.
aimeesellersMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 342Arc User
Let's face it.... Cryptic does not care what any of us think. They havent for a very long time. They didnt ask for our thoughts on this... they are just going to do it... Just like they do everything else.
So sit back and prepare to be bent over... again. Because it's coming. The ONLY feedback they ever ask for, is when testing a change or new feature... and that is only to see if it is working how they want it to. They dont ask for feedback, nor do they listen to it, on if that change or feature should be implemented at all.
And yes... the statement that this was a bug that has existed since the key system was implemented... is an outright lie. Its not a bug... its how it worked. Its also a lie that most of the community didnt know about it.... because we ALL knew about it. Its been talked about here by moderators even.
So dont try to sell this as anything more than it is.... They are making this change in an attempt to make people buy more keys. They have made running dungeons the only viable means of getting AD now. Now they are making running dungeons cost us more than they will ever return. Not a very smart business move at all... but then again... look who we are dealing with.
I will continue to run dungeons when I feel like it... for the fun of it. I just wont bother with the second chest at all.
But mark my word... no amount of complaining about it here is going to change this. Their course is set... and they could care less what any of us think.
A'Mie Stormshield (GF) / A'Mie Stormshard (CW)
Play Legit or Quit
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
Thanks for the feedback, folks. Most of the changes in this Preview update are from closer to the beginning of this week (as suggested by the build version), and we'll continue to keep an eye on the comments and questions.
As a general comment: As always, please treat your fellow players - your fellow people - with respect. While a significant bug (the dungeon key chest issue) is being addressed this update, as mentioned in the original post, we understand that some players have come to rely on this bug, and the nature of it caused some to perceive it as standard functionality.
I do not expect to pursue use of this functionality as an exploit. We understand that players are still putting time and energy into this content, whether or not they choose to use a key, and some may choose to do so until the moment the live servers go down for the module release.
Personally, I just hope folks don't burn themselves out from the feeling that they have to make optimal use of this bug before the module update.
This is an outright slap in the face! How dare you Terramak? How dare you?
Regardless of how this key conundrum works out, I agree that rewards need to be re-worked. In fact all rewards for all aspects of the game need a thorough shakedown. Prior to Module 6 (often referred to as "the good ol' days") it was rewarding to participate in all types of content, so I think a reward re-work is necessary. Keep in mind, a shakedown of that magnitude will require patience, and communication from both players and the development team.
"I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..." Featured Foundry Quest:Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
Being able to decline loot is not what the problem is, what we get from the chests is were the problem is and here are some of the things I see that could be introduced to help ease some of the grindy nature that is in the game now:
First, I am not looking for way to gain AD (or AD value of what i find in the chest) when I open these chests, I am looking for the decent gear to drop.... The system we have currently in place makes it so our (gamers) only way to get this loot is through RnG. Let me tell you it is really starting to make your players really grumpy and unhappy. Underdark released the +5 ring almost a year ago, I have never seen a single ring, not even one I didn't want. I have done a lot of these dungeons, and the best have from them are the weapons sets, 5 twisted weapon sets to be precise....
I'm really sick of the RnG. I'm not looking for this stuff to be easily attainable, but it should be attainable.
Things that should happen to make this overall better for all involved:
1. Stop re-inventing the wheel.
With the new modules (underdark, SKT) where do we find the pants and shirts for these modules? Thats right, they are found in the campaign store.... WTF, why do we have a crafting system??? We can make pants and shirts using this system (probably still BiS when compared to campaign underwear), so why do we have to buy from campaign store? These recipes should be added to appropriate crafters and the components required to make the new gear should be able to be farmed from the new zones and maybe even bought with campaign currency (if you must add it), or even make the recipes have to be bought from the campaign store/trade bar store/wonderous bazaar/zen store..... WHY IS CRAFTING SO NEGLECTED???? This system is hardly ever updated, unless you include master crafting (which is out of reach of a lot of players). Why have a system already in place and not update it with new recipes with new mod? Is it really hard to add new recipes.... i don't know and don't understand why this system is so underutilized?!
2. When adding new gear please give us a non-RnG way to get this gear.
With underdark, you (the game makers) did a great job with this, the twisted set could be obtained through the campaign using twisted Ichor and demonic Ichor. I even think your time gate for getting this gear was very acceptable. Also, around this time you made the campaign store gear bind to account or bind to account and BtC on equip. This was very good because it was very alt friendly hell even some the campaign content (zones and such) were account unlocked when one character unlocked, really good job there.
Fast forward to Mod 10 (SKT), this campaign is so grindy, doing it on more than one character, f-it, even on one character is mind numbing. The current mod is probably the most alt unfriendly mod ever released. You (the game makers) need to take que's from underdark and how that campaign worked for future mods, dump the alt unfriendly process, move to alt friendly mod (there is some real money to be made there).
Getting the new boots or any of the new armor is so f-ing frustrating... It reminds me of how long it took me to get my black ice gloves in mod 3 (almost 2 months of HE's farming every day for at least 2 to 3 hours a day). All my boot drops from the HE's in the mod 10 for one of my characters, have been the wrong type....FRUSTRATING. We should be able to buy the components required for the new gear from the campaign store. This should be done using seals, older campaign currency, and new campaign currency.
Also, use the already in place crafting system to assist us in our effort to get this new gear. You are smart enough to time gate this, similar to how you did it with underdark. When using the crafting system you can do something like the Unified Element process in Alchemy were it literally takes days or weeks to craft something. I don't mind the time requirement because I can see a light at the end of the tunnel where I can stop farming something and start enjoying playing the game instead of endlessly farming the same ole stuff over and over again hoping that this time will be the time that coveted item drops....
I can't say it enough, the RnG is so frustrating, I spend a majority of my gaming time not moving forward because its stuck behind some RnG method, compared to Mod 5 and lower this was not the case, i spent a lot of my time dungeon crawling and doing skirmishes.
I think the game makers could use a lot of the stuff already in game to introduce the new shiny's without having to use RnG. Using the already in place crafting system, stable old campaigns (keeps us going back to get the components for new gear), seals/campaign currency placed in dungeon chests, placing some of components in featured foundries, trade bar store, wonderous bazaar, and even the zen market.
Please for the love all that is game stop place everything behind keys and RnG. I will not be happy to see gear drop from something that took time/effort to get and have it be the wrong thing....
Be creative the key and RnG thing is beyond old and mind numbly boring.....
Dungeon Key Chest Changes The changes announced in the Dungeon Key Changes thread are now on the Preview shard. Instead of being able to preview the rewards without spending a key, the player will now receive the rewards immediately upon opening the chest, consuming the key in the process.
1) The time it takes to make these keys is 20 hours. So, the players will be able to open the dungeon chests once per day and also they will need to farm and do the dailies for EVERY campaign to get the currency to make these keys. I happened to run these dungeons for months and multiple times a day and in many if not the most of them I NEVER had a decent drop in MONTHS after running everything MULTIPLE times per day. The RNG is monumentally bad, it feels like some items are nonexistent.
2) After the problem with the RNG the second problem is what the LOOT inside the chest amounts to. The loot is miserable to say the least! I had keys in my inventory for months not because I didn't want to spend them and use a "bugged feature" but because the loot in most cases doesn't amount to even 5.000 AD actually 5000 AD would be the maximum in most cases!! If me and the MAJORITY (I know what you did there ) of the players in NW who knew about this used their keys in such a scarce way which took days/weeks/months to use them think about how many they will use (and of course how many they will buy which is the cheese here) now... !
3) The new 5 Legendary Dragon Key pack price will be 250 Zen. 250 Zen = 2,5 Dollars / Euros. 250 Zen = 125000 AD. Each key will cost 50 Zen which amounts to 25000 AD per Key. Special Chest loot per dungeon run maximum amount is around 5000 AD except from those very, very rare occasions which a drop happens after a very, very long time of running something.
Since players make multiple runs per day you force them to get a chance at the loot chests only once run per day IF they had time to grind the campaign dailies to make the keys needed and with this pitiful RNG which will give them nothing noteworthy in most cases (this chance that you MIGHT have some good loot is why many people ran these dungeons so what reason would they have to run these dungeons again). If they want to have a chance for a decent drop which will take days/weeks/months you 're forcing them to buy for every 5 runs 5 Legendary Dragon Keys with 2.5 Euros / Dollars or 125000 Zen and open chests that in most cases will give them something like 5000 AD each time or 25000 in general, do you even realize what you 're asking here?? Also let's not fool ourselves there is no chance to buy Zen with AD at the moment for PC at least ZAX has a backlog of 8 million ZEN and keeps increasing. I've put an order for almost two weeks and still didn't get any Zen for Astral Diamonds (Why do people are not putting as much Zen up for sale as they used to anymore food for thought there, ha!).
So judging from 1 , 2 , 3 do you really think this change should go live as it is??
This post is probably wasted time from my end since I believe the devs have no saying in this change but I still wanted to point out what I think is bad with this change. Best of luck in this game.
I posted this already at the preview notes but I 'd also like to post it here in case "someone of authority" will notice anything being said in this discussion (yeah keep dreaming ) where most of the conversation regarding this matter is done. If posting the same thing in 2 different discussions is not allowed I hope the moderators will correct this and I apologize since I'm not all that familiar with the forum rules.
Fixing keys before fixing loots is the most stupid decision i ever saw on my life. A change like this must be discussed with players for some months - WITH DEVS DISCUSSING TOO, NOT IGNORING LIKE THEY ARE DOING HERE - then improving loots, based on feedback of players and only then the key issue fixed. "We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not, and because the Neverwinter design team will be better able to design rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed." This statement makes me think that every chest that belongs to mod 11 or less will have the same drop rate as now, meaning that every dungeon/raid/etc that we know will be buried because no one will want spend keys on worthless junk. And talking about the definition of bug that devs said, they wont ban anyone but... will have so massive exodus of players on this game after this mode, that a mass ban on who "exploited" this would have the very same effect.
They have ignored feedback for the last few months including mod 10 grind/gating levels. so what does it matter.
We all feel defeated , they have beat us all down.
Its I guess the decision that is next for many of us.
It is terribly freeing to leave a mmo I will tell you that.. Ive done it several times. Usually take 5-6 months off and just enjoy actual life again. Puts games into perspective. If you are complementing that road, there might be a guide on how to quit the game right over at the site that shall not be named, there is a post about it already.
.... Most players in the game (that take part in Mod 10 content) will make more ad and progress their toons faster and cheaper than they ever did before (except exploiters or people that had leadership/invokation armies). The ONLY reason that is the case is because of the "grind/gating" related to the new armor and weapons.
This ONE time the devs finally let the gating/grinding benefit the majority of the Players in the game.. and not just their Zen sells.
Think a little bit deeper than the surface level.
You do realise it is only going to work if people actually do want to grind? I personally am a big grinder. Always maxed out campaigns on first possible day on my main and usually on alts not long after. But the new content is fishing not dungeons and while I agree there's potential for making AD here, I am not convinced it will be that fun. The effort required for a single svardborg run is disproptionate to the rewards. And all other content will be less attractive. But all in all that's perhaps a moot point - there is a trust issue here. You are of course free to give someone distrustworthy your money. But most I expect will not.
Tons of people already running HE's... score if not hundreads of them... if no one wanted the items for Relic gear (because they don't want to grind) the prices wouldn't stay so dang high. With the announcement of the new 10 man and the announcement of Vivified Gear the demand for HE items went upp because more people were doing FBI for the gear...
even if most of the old timers in this game are too spoiled to go for the gear... most of the games current players AREN'T.
The prissy, spoiled, enititled class of NW players are dieing out.. and the game is better for it.
If people educate themselves.. or allow themselves to be educated by others who think more than whine... this change is NOT so serious.. and actually would make the game better.. even for the old timers.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
Tons of people already running HE's... score if not hundreads of them... if no one wanted the items for Relic gear (because they don't want to grind) the prices wouldn't stay so dang high. With the announcement of the new 10 man and the announcement of Vivified Gear the demand for HE items went upp because more people were doing FBI for the gear...
even if most of the old timers in this game are too spoiled to go for the gear... most of the games current players AREN'T.
The prissy, spoiled, enititled class of NW players are dieing out.. and the game is better for it.
If people educate themselves.. or allow themselves to be educated by others who think more than whine... this change is NOT so serious.. and actually would make the game better.. even for the old timers.
Really? I mean, are you serious about this???? Only reason to ppl "want" or "need" any relic gear is just to enter FBI. As far as I know, almost everybody that enters that dungeon simply switch their equips just because relic gear sucks! That's the only reason for the so claimed "rise" on AH prices.
This game is dying for one reason only: devs, managers and everyone else involved on the future of the game don't even listen to the player base. That's simple.
We don't want fishing games; we don't want to circle around doing he's; we don't deserve that stupid and so low RNG. We want more dungeons, more challenge; we want more and better loots, worth our effort on finishing raids of 10 or 25 players! We don't deserve a blue equip or a +1 ring after defeating a demon lord, or the queen of dragons, or now the king of frost giants! That's the reason of all the rage with this discussion: if such "bug" will be fixed, at least give us better rewards for our efforts! Since beta many ppl are trying to keep this game fun and rewarding for everyone, that's why we go to preview server and test everything we can, doing a list with all bugs and glitches found to show to devs and managers where they should focus. We do this because we love this game and wanna see it alive for many more years.
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
We don't want fishing games; we don't want to circle around doing he's; we don't deserve that stupid and so low RNG. We want more dungeons, more challenge; we want more and better loots, worth our effort on finishing raids of 10 or 25 players! We don't deserve a blue equip or a +1 ring after defeating a demon lord, or the queen of dragons, or now the king of frost giants! That's the reason of all the rage with this discussion: if such "bug" will be fixed, at least give us better rewards for our efforts! Since beta many ppl are trying to keep this game fun and rewarding for everyone, that's why we go to preview server and test everything we can, doing a list with all bugs and glitches found to show to devs and managers where they should focus. We do this because we love this game and wanna see it alive for many more years.
All those "old timers", love this game; many ie ironzerg, beckylunatic, the pvpers, kolamaster, etc etc have given soooooo much positive constructive feedback and have done so many positive things for the community, and then they get to watch PWE/Cryptic do nothing with it or actively destroy things the community built.
They won't listen. The Mod 6 mentality has sailed already; they learned nothing. They just managed to hide it for a few months. I'm sorry if you fell in love with the game Mod 1-5; that game is done and buried now. We are living in a post Mod 6 world where cash is king. They are set on bleeding players dry at this point.
Where are the dungeons? Its been a year and a half. How much time do you need?
Why did you wait five days to even begin to discuss the Gateway closure. Why didn't you have plans for the loot/companions/professions in place before you closed it?
You have customers from three gaming platforms now. Once you develop something, your production cost is paid. You can sell it an infinite amount of times after that. Why are you squeezing us for money harder than ever?
It took you a year to make Elemental Evil even halfway tolerable. Dungeons have been a year and a half (and counting). Gateway has been a month. If you can't find time to fix these issues, why on earth should we trust you to find time to "reevaluate loot"?
Post edited by beadin on
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited October 2016
Just farm maps like elol Funny thing is some dungeons don't let you exit once you beat the boss unless you use your keys.
Buyer beware
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Maybe someone else has pointed this out in the last *47* pages, but I have something to say. I generally don't post much as I feel there are a lot of people in this game who are more knowledgable about it and have been here longer than I have.
I started in mod 5, and I got my TR to level 60 two days before mod 6 dropped. I slogged my way through mod six getting one shotted by red caps and running from crabs because I had no one to run dungeons with to get any of the blue armor. I finally found a great guild to help me, spent some money, made some other characters. Got my leadership going to earn the enormous amounts of ad it takes to upgrade all the things you have to upgrade to be productive at the endgame content. A week after upgrading my leadership across multiple characters, ad was removed from leadership professions. It seems that every time I made it up to another level, within a week, the bar was moved. Or REmoved.
Recently, I tried to look at this game from the perspective of a new player. If I was brand new, like I was, how could I possibly make it to be a helpful contributer in endgame content. That was before this change. Now, with this change, and without changing the loot in the chests, players will literally be losing ad opening chests. It seems to me, that without help from players that already have made it to the endgame content, new players face an almost insurmountable task.
That doesn't seem to be a winning proposition, financially, for a game like this. If we take it as fact that in order for this game to survive, you need to draw new long term gamers to the game. In other words, if you have a steady stream of gamers that play for a month then leave, they aren't spending enough money to keep the game afloat. Now, if a new gamer comes in and takes a look at the futility and mind numbing grind for so little payoff, even to the point that opening chests (to get the only guaranteed loot) isn't worth opening, how long until they move on to greener pastures?
Put another way: you keep making endgame content, presumably at least in part, to bring in new players who think it looks like fun. But, then you make it discouragingly difficult for them to ever have a shot at playing it. How is that sustainable?
I don't care about being insulted by calling, what had been accepted as normal, an "exploit". I am not moved by any "gracious" offer of not being treated as if I were an exploiter. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the moderators on here who were clearly tasked with the job of selling the players on the reasonableness of this change, because it is so very clearly a justification after the fact of an attempt to generate more money. But, in doing so, you will be exacerbating the financial problem you are already facing.
I don't post a lot. I don't cry about nerfs to classes. I have never complained on here about a single change you all have made in the past, that probably affected my ability to progress in this game more than most.
If this change takes effect and I were starting out now, as a new player, and could give myself advice, I would tell myself that the path to the top of this game is not realistically achievable at this time without spending thousands and thousands of dollars or dedicating many years to grinding about a half dozen dungeons. I would say that the shiny new content won't be playable for a new player for a long time, while you grind the gear up. I would tell myself that there are better options out there for a lot less money.
But, every new player will quickly see that for themselves, if these changes take place. A lot of players that have been faithfully making that grind will see it, too. And, after it all comes crashing down, a group of people will stand around, scratching their heads, and say, "I wonder how this happened? I wonder why no one said anything?"
And a thousand Mini Apparatuses of Gond wept.
Lilia Drakon - PVE Executioner TR She Looked Lvl 18
After this change, Neverwinter is probably the only game on the market where you come away from running content worse off than you were before you ran it. 25,000 AD investment for a 5,000 AD return. Kudos, that has to be some sort of precedent. You are LITERALLY better off not playing the game.
Meanwhile, in any of your competitors games, one could level a brand new toon to max before their next expansion, participate in raids, generate in game wealth, and get end game gear, all for only $15 a month. How many months for a brand new player to get booned out, geared out, and hit FBI? And how much will they have to spend?
Reality check: We pay you to entertain us. Mind numbing grinding is not entertaining. Micro-managing our inventory and professions is not entertaining. Running the same handful of dungeons for a year and a half is not entertaining (sorry, but one new gated dungeon with terrible rewards doesn't cut it). Having to spell these things out for you time and time again is not entertaining.
Step up your game if you expect to attract and retain customers. And for Pete's sake, LISTEN to your customers. Becky, Iron, Sharpedge, and plenty of others have all laid out the issues for you multiple times. Read it and act on it before its too late.
There is a feature in the Neverwinter game whereby players can open a bonus chest at the end of certain dungeons through use of special items named:
Legendary Dragon Key
Daily Dungeon Chest Key
Epic Dungeon Chest Key
Standard Dungeon Chest Key
Mystic Dragon Key
Arcane Dragon Key
Dragon Queen’s Key
Lesser Demonic Key
Greater Demonic Key
Malabog’s Castle Key
Valindra’s Tower Key
Kessell’s Retreat Key
Ancient Runic Key
Dark Fey Key
Thayan Chest Key
Thayan Lair Key
Keys are currently acquired by purchasing them from the Zen Market, completing certain campaign tasks, or obtaining them from certain non-player characters. Each key can be used to open and claim the rewards from one chest.
In the Sea of Moving Ice update releasing on the live server on November 8th, there will be a change happening to how these keys work.
There is currently a bug on the live server whereby a player may view the rewards without using a key. This bug has been fixed. When this fix gets to the live server, opening a chest will consume the key, give the player the rewards, and display those rewards to the player. To ensure that keys are not accidentally used, the user interface in game will alert you to which key would be consumed and ask for confirmation before continuing.
Since this bug has been live for a long time and we believe that some players may have come to rely on this bug, we are providing advance notice of the change.
As part of this change we are also lowering the cost of the Zen store item “Legendary Dragon Key 5-Pack” from 300 Zen to 250 Zen.
We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not, and because the Neverwinter design team will be better able to design rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed.
This has got to be the worst idea ever. How are you developers gonna blatantly lie about this being a bug when it's been a thing for 3 years lol. Who has the gold and the time to support making all these keys all the time anyways. This game will need to be called keys and dragons cause no ones gonna be running dungeons anymore
They could revert the key change and the players would still be the losers here. In fact, at this point, it would probably leave the players in a much worse situation if all they did was revert the changes and maintain their place as leading the industry in the "Worst Loot Ever" category.
EDIT: Ok, to be fair, I did a little more research and Neverwinter is not leading the "Worst Loot Ever" category.
Apparently number one is "OMG It's Full of Spiders Online", and number two is "World of Broken Glasscraft".
I might have to look up that Broken Glasscraft. Found an instructable the other day on knapping broken glass into arrowheads.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I think they want us to run one dungeon per day then pvp until we get pissed off or bored.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
edited October 2016
1 single question... And, I NEED AN ANSWER
<B>Did any of the devs try to get a +5 ring of their choice? Huh?</B>
My view is quite simply this: I need to run my *ss off to equip all of my characters with the right +4 rings and have some spares - before this change hits xbox. (I have no illusions about getting a +5)
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Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
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But all in all that's perhaps a moot point - there is a trust issue here. You are of course free to give someone distrustworthy your money. But most I expect will not.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/4314135?sso=eyJ1bmlxdWVpZCI6IjExNjkwMDE3NiIsIm5hbWUiOiJ0cmFnZWR5NDE0IzU1MTciLCJlbWFpbCI6ImpvZWJyZWV6eTQxNEBnbWFpbC5jb20iLCJwaG90b3VybCI6Imh0dHBzOlwvXC93d3cuYXJjZ2FtZXMuY29tXC9pbWFnZXNcL2FjY291bnRcL3VzZXIuanBnIiwicm9sZXMiOiJNZW1iZXIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+af5d3f3542d27c9bf2d85181b0c55597d4d866cd+1477161654+hmacsha1
BOYCOTT NOV 8th ... don't login, at all.
Twitter it, facebook it, reddit it, use Banned website, call your friends, get the word out via guild mail, quote the above line in reply to this thread, shout it in zone chat, whatever it takes
Unless the players unite and speak with one voice, to both the cryptic executives responsible for maintaining profit and their shareholders, nothing will change.
One day won't killl their business, but the communication sure can be measured. It'll likely never happen b/c gamers love to whine about these changes but do nothing about it.
PS - took a screenshot of this post to follow up on censorship next. ;-)
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Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
So sit back and prepare to be bent over... again. Because it's coming. The ONLY feedback they ever ask for, is when testing a change or new feature... and that is only to see if it is working how they want it to. They dont ask for feedback, nor do they listen to it, on if that change or feature should be implemented at all.
And yes... the statement that this was a bug that has existed since the key system was implemented... is an outright lie. Its not a bug... its how it worked. Its also a lie that most of the community didnt know about it.... because we ALL knew about it. Its been talked about here by moderators even.
So dont try to sell this as anything more than it is.... They are making this change in an attempt to make people buy more keys. They have made running dungeons the only viable means of getting AD now. Now they are making running dungeons cost us more than they will ever return. Not a very smart business move at all... but then again... look who we are dealing with.
I will continue to run dungeons when I feel like it... for the fun of it. I just wont bother with the second chest at all.
But mark my word... no amount of complaining about it here is going to change this. Their course is set... and they could care less what any of us think.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
it is Bugs and Bots Online game!
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First, I am not looking for way to gain AD (or AD value of what i find in the chest) when I open these chests, I am looking for the decent gear to drop.... The system we have currently in place makes it so our (gamers) only way to get this loot is through RnG. Let me tell you it is really starting to make your players really grumpy and unhappy. Underdark released the +5 ring almost a year ago, I have never seen a single ring, not even one I didn't want. I have done a lot of these dungeons, and the best have from them are the weapons sets, 5 twisted weapon sets to be precise....
I'm really sick of the RnG. I'm not looking for this stuff to be easily attainable, but it should be attainable.
Things that should happen to make this overall better for all involved:
1. Stop re-inventing the wheel.
With the new modules (underdark, SKT) where do we find the pants and shirts for these modules? Thats right, they are found in the campaign store.... WTF, why do we have a crafting system??? We can make pants and shirts using this system (probably still BiS when compared to campaign underwear), so why do we have to buy from campaign store? These recipes should be added to appropriate crafters and the components required to make the new gear should be able to be farmed from the new zones and maybe even bought with campaign currency (if you must add it), or even make the recipes have to be bought from the campaign store/trade bar store/wonderous bazaar/zen store..... WHY IS CRAFTING SO NEGLECTED???? This system is hardly ever updated, unless you include master crafting (which is out of reach of a lot of players). Why have a system already in place and not update it with new recipes with new mod? Is it really hard to add new recipes.... i don't know and don't understand why this system is so underutilized?!
2. When adding new gear please give us a non-RnG way to get this gear.
With underdark, you (the game makers) did a great job with this, the twisted set could be obtained through the campaign using twisted Ichor and demonic Ichor. I even think your time gate for getting this gear was very acceptable. Also, around this time you made the campaign store gear bind to account or bind to account and BtC on equip. This was very good because it was very alt friendly hell even some the campaign content (zones and such) were account unlocked when one character unlocked, really good job there.
Fast forward to Mod 10 (SKT), this campaign is so grindy, doing it on more than one character, f-it, even on one character is mind numbing. The current mod is probably the most alt unfriendly mod ever released. You (the game makers) need to take que's from underdark and how that campaign worked for future mods, dump the alt unfriendly process, move to alt friendly mod (there is some real money to be made there).
Getting the new boots or any of the new armor is so f-ing frustrating... It reminds me of how long it took me to get my black ice gloves in mod 3 (almost 2 months of HE's farming every day for at least 2 to 3 hours a day). All my boot drops from the HE's in the mod 10 for one of my characters, have been the wrong type....FRUSTRATING. We should be able to buy the components required for the new gear from the campaign store. This should be done using seals, older campaign currency, and new campaign currency.
Also, use the already in place crafting system to assist us in our effort to get this new gear. You are smart enough to time gate this, similar to how you did it with underdark. When using the crafting system you can do something like the Unified Element process in Alchemy were it literally takes days or weeks to craft something. I don't mind the time requirement because I can see a light at the end of the tunnel where I can stop farming something and start enjoying playing the game instead of endlessly farming the same ole stuff over and over again hoping that this time will be the time that coveted item drops....
I can't say it enough, the RnG is so frustrating, I spend a majority of my gaming time not moving forward because its stuck behind some RnG method, compared to Mod 5 and lower this was not the case, i spent a lot of my time dungeon crawling and doing skirmishes.
I think the game makers could use a lot of the stuff already in game to introduce the new shiny's without having to use RnG. Using the already in place crafting system, stable old campaigns (keeps us going back to get the components for new gear), seals/campaign currency placed in dungeon chests, placing some of components in featured foundries, trade bar store, wonderous bazaar, and even the zen market.
Please for the love all that is game stop place everything behind keys and RnG. I will not be happy to see gear drop from something that took time/effort to get and have it be the wrong thing....
Be creative the key and RnG thing is beyond old and mind numbly boring.....
The changes announced in the Dungeon Key Changes thread are now on the Preview shard. Instead of being able to preview the rewards without spending a key, the player will now receive the rewards immediately upon opening the chest, consuming the key in the process.
1) The time it takes to make these keys is 20 hours. So, the players will be able to open the dungeon chests once per day and also they will need to farm and do the dailies for EVERY campaign to get the currency to make these keys. I happened to run these dungeons for months and multiple times a day and in many if not the most of them I NEVER had a decent drop in MONTHS after running everything MULTIPLE times per day. The RNG is monumentally bad, it feels like some items are nonexistent.
2) After the problem with the RNG the second problem is what the LOOT inside the chest amounts to. The loot is miserable to say the least! I had keys in my inventory for months not because I didn't want to spend them and use a "bugged feature" but because the loot in most cases doesn't amount to even 5.000 AD actually 5000 AD would be the maximum in most cases!! If me and the MAJORITY (I know what you did there
3) The new 5 Legendary Dragon Key pack price will be 250 Zen.
250 Zen = 2,5 Dollars / Euros.
250 Zen = 125000 AD.
Each key will cost 50 Zen which amounts to 25000 AD per Key.
Special Chest loot per dungeon run maximum amount is around 5000 AD except from those very, very rare occasions which a drop happens after a very, very long time of running something.
Since players make multiple runs per day you force them to get a chance at the loot chests only once run per day IF they had time to grind the campaign dailies to make the keys needed and with this pitiful RNG which will give them nothing noteworthy in most cases (this chance that you MIGHT have some good loot is why many people ran these dungeons so what reason would they have to run these dungeons again). If they want to have a chance for a decent drop which will take days/weeks/months you 're forcing them to buy for every 5 runs 5 Legendary Dragon Keys with 2.5 Euros / Dollars or 125000 Zen and open chests that in most cases will give them something like 5000 AD each time or 25000 in general, do you even realize what you 're asking here?? Also let's not fool ourselves there is no chance to buy Zen with AD at the moment for PC at least ZAX has a backlog of 8 million ZEN and keeps increasing. I've put an order for almost two weeks and still didn't get any Zen for Astral Diamonds (Why do people are not putting as much Zen up for sale as they used to anymore food for thought there, ha!).
So judging from 1 , 2 , 3 do you really think this change should go live as it is??
This post is probably wasted time from my end since I believe the devs have no saying in this change but I still wanted to point out what I think is bad with this change. Best of luck in this game.
I posted this already at the preview notes but I 'd also like to post it here in case "someone of authority" will notice anything being said in this discussion (yeah keep dreaming
even if most of the old timers in this game are too spoiled to go for the gear... most of the games current players AREN'T.
The prissy, spoiled, enititled class of NW players are dieing out.. and the game is better for it.
If people educate themselves.. or allow themselves to be educated by others who think more than whine... this change is NOT so serious.. and actually would make the game better.. even for the old timers.
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This game is dying for one reason only: devs, managers and everyone else involved on the future of the game don't even listen to the player base. That's simple.
We don't want fishing games; we don't want to circle around doing he's; we don't deserve that stupid and so low RNG. We want more dungeons, more challenge; we want more and better loots, worth our effort on finishing raids of 10 or 25 players! We don't deserve a blue equip or a +1 ring after defeating a demon lord, or the queen of dragons, or now the king of frost giants! That's the reason of all the rage with this discussion: if such "bug" will be fixed, at least give us better rewards for our efforts! Since beta many ppl are trying to keep this game fun and rewarding for everyone, that's why we go to preview server and test everything we can, doing a list with all bugs and glitches found to show to devs and managers where they should focus. We do this because we love this game and wanna see it alive for many more years.
All those "old timers", love this game; many ie ironzerg, beckylunatic, the pvpers, kolamaster, etc etc have given soooooo much positive constructive feedback and have done so many positive things for the community, and then they get to watch PWE/Cryptic do nothing with it or actively destroy things the community built.
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Do not go gentle into that good night.
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Where are the dungeons? Its been a year and a half. How much time do you need?
Why did you wait five days to even begin to discuss the Gateway closure. Why didn't you have plans for the loot/companions/professions in place before you closed it?
You have customers from three gaming platforms now. Once you develop something, your production cost is paid. You can sell it an infinite amount of times after that. Why are you squeezing us for money harder than ever?
It took you a year to make Elemental Evil even halfway tolerable. Dungeons have been a year and a half (and counting). Gateway has been a month. If you can't find time to fix these issues, why on earth should we trust you to find time to "reevaluate loot"?
Funny thing is some dungeons don't let you exit once you beat the boss unless you use your keys.
Buyer beware
I started in mod 5, and I got my TR to level 60 two days before mod 6 dropped. I slogged my way through mod six getting one shotted by red caps and running from crabs because I had no one to run dungeons with to get any of the blue armor. I finally found a great guild to help me, spent some money, made some other characters. Got my leadership going to earn the enormous amounts of ad it takes to upgrade all the things you have to upgrade to be productive at the endgame content. A week after upgrading my leadership across multiple characters, ad was removed from leadership professions. It seems that every time I made it up to another level, within a week, the bar was moved. Or REmoved.
Recently, I tried to look at this game from the perspective of a new player. If I was brand new, like I was, how could I possibly make it to be a helpful contributer in endgame content. That was before this change. Now, with this change, and without changing the loot in the chests, players will literally be losing ad opening chests. It seems to me, that without help from players that already have made it to the endgame content, new players face an almost insurmountable task.
That doesn't seem to be a winning proposition, financially, for a game like this. If we take it as fact that in order for this game to survive, you need to draw new long term gamers to the game. In other words, if you have a steady stream of gamers that play for a month then leave, they aren't spending enough money to keep the game afloat. Now, if a new gamer comes in and takes a look at the futility and mind numbing grind for so little payoff, even to the point that opening chests (to get the only guaranteed loot) isn't worth opening, how long until they move on to greener pastures?
Put another way: you keep making endgame content, presumably at least in part, to bring in new players who think it looks like fun. But, then you make it discouragingly difficult for them to ever have a shot at playing it. How is that sustainable?
I don't care about being insulted by calling, what had been accepted as normal, an "exploit". I am not moved by any "gracious" offer of not being treated as if I were an exploiter. I do have a certain amount of sympathy for the moderators on here who were clearly tasked with the job of selling the players on the reasonableness of this change, because it is so very clearly a justification after the fact of an attempt to generate more money. But, in doing so, you will be exacerbating the financial problem you are already facing.
I don't post a lot. I don't cry about nerfs to classes. I have never complained on here about a single change you all have made in the past, that probably affected my ability to progress in this game more than most.
If this change takes effect and I were starting out now, as a new player, and could give myself advice, I would tell myself that the path to the top of this game is not realistically achievable at this time without spending thousands and thousands of dollars or dedicating many years to grinding about a half dozen dungeons. I would say that the shiny new content won't be playable for a new player for a long time, while you grind the gear up. I would tell myself that there are better options out there for a lot less money.
But, every new player will quickly see that for themselves, if these changes take place. A lot of players that have been faithfully making that grind will see it, too. And, after it all comes crashing down, a group of people will stand around, scratching their heads, and say, "I wonder how this happened? I wonder why no one said anything?"
And a thousand Mini Apparatuses of Gond wept.
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Meanwhile, in any of your competitors games, one could level a brand new toon to max before their next expansion, participate in raids, generate in game wealth, and get end game gear, all for only $15 a month. How many months for a brand new player to get booned out, geared out, and hit FBI? And how much will they have to spend?
Reality check: We pay you to entertain us. Mind numbing grinding is not entertaining. Micro-managing our inventory and professions is not entertaining. Running the same handful of dungeons for a year and a half is not entertaining (sorry, but one new gated dungeon with terrible rewards doesn't cut it). Having to spell these things out for you time and time again is not entertaining.
Step up your game if you expect to attract and retain customers. And for Pete's sake, LISTEN to your customers. Becky, Iron, Sharpedge, and plenty of others have all laid out the issues for you multiple times. Read it and act on it before its too late.
<B>Did any of the devs try to get a +5 ring of their choice? Huh?</B>
@panderus @terramak @asterdahl
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox