I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment here, and run through some hypothetical thoughts I think may have entered into this decision.
What I think likely happened here, is you had a spiraling case of behavior and poor loot chances that led to the same behavior and worse loot chances, which is where we are today.
At first the devs may have thought, “oh, alright, we’ll let them preview what they will loot, no big deal”. What likely happened then, however, is that looting and taking the goods decreased, as people held on to keys for a long period of time until that “magic” drop came that gave them everything or almost everything they needed.
What this did was stall the intended economy sinks and expenditures for the player as they might only spend $ once, or not at all with currencies.
Let’s say a dungeon key cost 5k ad. Under normal circumstances, anytime a player would want to get that key for the dungeon they would spend 5k ad and go for the loot. Let’s say originally, the loot they wanted had a 10% chance of dropping. In that case the devs desired an economy where the average person would probably sink about 50-100k ad into key purchases for that loot. In the case where the player held onto the key, however, that economy sink is only 5k ad and nothing more. This led to the devs introducing all this intermediate mediocre loot like the +1 and +2 rings. They needed to expand the loot table to make drops still feel somehow impactful, while they decreased the chance of that “desired” drop to say, 2% or 1 in 50. The hope then was the economical sink would balance out, between those who waited with their one key, and those who spent resources on new ones each time.
This approach was likely deemed untenable, as it pissed off both the people who spent resources (“I’m just getting HAMSTER and HAMSTER again.”), and those who held their keys (“Well, still not going to use this key as this stuff is junk”). This led to both parties not running dungeons anymore, and possibly leaving.
Thus, the current solution was born. The goal was to reset and return the game economy to an equilibrium where resources are constantly being spent, and rewards are more consistently being given.
This way, if a chest loot table has an intended sink of say 50k, and a cost-per attempt of 5k, they can move the loot tables back up to 10% from 2%, and have everyone spend the intended resources.
Now, I want to make one final devil’s advocate point towards those who say that the rewards from the chest should be equal or greater to what they spend. If they are by standard, less than what you put in unless you get a good drop, is it gambling? I honestly think so, BUT, I also think this gambling method is necessary so long as the game stays primarily f2p. If a completely free player is not losing resources, what incentive do they have to invest either money or time into activities to gain more of those resources?
Let’s go back to that 5k key example. If the cost of the key and the “unlucky” reward for the key are both 5k ad, then you’re back to the same problem you had before. You get a single one-time investment, with no future growth or spending. Thus, for completely free players, the greater chance out of any loot table MUST be a loss of some sort because otherwise they have no incentive to spend any more time, money, or in-game resources to recoup their losses.
Now, an obvious solution that I WANT in light of these recent developments is to move some rewards over to VIP, like I’ve mentioned elsewhere. Give VIP players a legendary dragon key at a high rank, say 10 or above, and you then allow 2 methods of cash inflow. Either those few players who buy the keys from the zen store, just like the enchanted keys, or those more casual players who are willing to spend a little money regularly, like a subscription, but want that subscription to supplement casual gameplay costs.
Do I think this could have been communicated better? Absolutely, if I am right, they should be explaining this to folks. I can understand it being called a “bug”, however wide the disconnect with the playerbase may be, because at the current moment, it most likely is causing “unintended behavior and consequences”. But, it is poor wording at best without an explanation for the playerbase.
Now, of course if things stay the way they are now, with just the preview option gone, then yeah, things are going to suck, and they should make changes. I hope they already are, and are just leaving those things unsaid. So at best, this is just some poor communication to fix a potentially serious economic issue, and at worst, ½ of the solution to a problem. I’m cautiously optimistic, but I can certainly understand some folk’s anger.
you guys are HAMSTER despicable. HAMSTER drop rate on everything, expecialy paid key chests and so you take away the chance of saving a key to not use on HAMSTER and reduce the price of paid keys by FREAKING 50 instead of turning them to 50 zen to make sence of this stupid madness.
"We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not, and because the Neverwinter design team will be better able to design rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed." are you serious? shamelessly spiting on the face of people who play your game.
Thiis is what I would do if I wanted to upset all the players of my game at once. So good job on that, you're going to unite the entire playerbase against you.
To be fair, this change is incredibly upsetting, to the point I'm not seriously reconsidering my commitment to this game. This would be a huge breach of trust if this ever goes live. How can i trust the company not to screw me once again if such an horror gets validated and pushed to live?
Yet again the steal from the player and expect the game to survive, no AD in professions (after suffering major woman agro for getting leadership to 25) a month later they take it out.
No more AD from invoking, no more gateway so i can't use my tablet when not at home to do professions. No more Sword coast mini game (after i spent 2 mil getting pets that would let me kick the final boss in the epic dung) So i can get companion gear and all the fun stuff
Punishing the MAJORITY for the aspects of a few once more. Now you say it is raining but it isn't rain. They keys we have always had with the option to loot or not to loot, look back on your own patch notes. It wasn't a bug, your trying to turn NvW into p2p everyone can see it yet your still trying to keep it advertised as F2P. Your not making it impossible for the new player to get going, just like cigarettes. Your going to start killing your core people without getting the new people playing, thus your really just killing the game... this must be your goal as you keep doing it and making it worse. Maybe the company is tired of making money with this and just want to kill the game without bothering to just say that. So your trying to kill your core players as well. Well even if that is your aim, your doing it. Next comes you won't have enough money coming in to pay for the servers then game crashes all the time from lack of upkeep then everyone quits and then you have no more game. the end
Let’s go back to that 5k key example. If the cost of the key and the “unlucky” reward for the key are both 5k ad, then you’re back to the same problem you had before. You get a single one-time investment, with no future growth or spending. Thus, for completely free players, the greater chance out of any loot table MUST be a loss of some sort because otherwise they have no incentive to spend any more time, money, or in-game resources to recoup their losses.
Unfortunately, your "5k" example is not a good one. The required amount of time spent grinding campaign currency for a campaign key is easily worth 20-40K AD (not even counting free chests and drops), *and* it's time spent not being social or playing with other people, *and* it takes a day to make the key, *and* the "loss" result is such a large part of the table that it will most likely be weeks before you get a result of "marginally profitable".
Even discounting the less-fun nature of "farming key mats in a one-person zone" compared to "playing with other players", and even ignoring the stuff from the free chests, you're still losing 75-95% of your value *almost every time*.
Let’s go back to that 5k key example. If the cost of the key and the “unlucky” reward for the key are both 5k ad, then you’re back to the same problem you had before. You get a single one-time investment, with no future growth or spending. Thus, for completely free players, the greater chance out of any loot table MUST be a loss of some sort because otherwise they have no incentive to spend any more time, money, or in-game resources to recoup their losses.
Unfortunately, your "5k" example is not a good one. The required amount of time spent grinding campaign currency for a campaign key is easily worth 20-40K AD (not even counting free chests and drops), *and* it's time spent not being social or playing with other people, *and* it takes a day to make the key, *and* the "loss" result is such a large part of the table that it will most likely be weeks before you get a result of "marginally profitable".
Even discounting the less-fun nature of "farming key mats in a one-person zone" compared to "playing with other players", and even ignoring the stuff from the free chests, you're still losing 75-95% of your value *almost every time*.
That 5k example was not intended as a real world example, but as a hypothetical example to do simple math with. My entire post is intended to use hypothetical figures to explain the process, not the actual current cost of this mess.
Love yourself, and focus on the rest of the madness of life later.
That 5k example was not intended as a real world example, but as a hypothetical example to do simple math with. My entire post is intended to use hypothetical figures to explain the process, not the actual current cost of this mess.
Whereas my being upset is ENTIRELY about the current cost of the mess, where we're told that they're "fixing a bug" and that players playing the game as-intended (seriously, check the patch notes when this feature went in) are "exploiting" - implying heavily that their belief is that everything would be JUST FINE currently if only people were accepting the loot and spending the keys every time.
(And also, in the process, telling people that using a prominent feature, that was touted as a feature when it was implemented, is suddenly a bannable offense. Which is a whole different kettle of lutefisk)
There's no indication in the announcement (and there's been no followup/clarification!) that they understand just how expensive campaign keys *are*, or just how lousy the chest loot really is. And your hypothetical about how cheap keys with a majority loss, minority profit, rare great profit, and very rare JACKPOT would work makes sense.... but it's not the current situation and there's no indication that the developers have *anything like that* in mind.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited October 2016
@vandignesca I could go along with a decision made along the lines you described. Would players still be upset over it? Sure. But if there's an underlying logic that's intended to make the game better for everyone, then that can be accepted.
But that sort of explanation needs to come from the developers, not just "Hey guys, we fixed a bug!" junk that we got fed.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
@vandignesca I could go along with a decision made along the lines you described. Would players still be upset over it? Sure. But if there's an underlying logic that's intended to make the game better for everyone, then that can be accepted.
But that sort of explanation needs to come from the developers, not just "Hey guys, we fixed a bug!" junk that we got fed.
Yes, my post was entirely intended as a potential explanation for the process of the decision, nothing else.
Also, yes, at the VERY BEST, I would still agree that what we have here is poor communication. If this change is done in the absense of other balancing changes, then yeah it sucks full HAMSTER.
However, if my speculation is correct, then I support the change along with the consequences I outlined.
Love yourself, and focus on the rest of the madness of life later.
0
lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment here, and run through some hypothetical thoughts I think may have entered into this decision.
What I think likely happened here, is you had a spiraling case of behavior and poor loot chances that led to the same behavior and worse loot chances, which is where we are today.
At first the devs may have thought, “oh, alright, we’ll let them preview what they will loot, no big deal”. What likely happened then, however, is that looting and taking the goods decreased, as people held on to keys for a long period of time until that “magic” drop came that gave them everything or almost everything they needed.
What this did was stall the intended economy sinks and expenditures for the player as they might only spend $ once, or not at all with currencies.
Let’s say a dungeon key cost 5k ad. Under normal circumstances, anytime a player would want to get that key for the dungeon they would spend 5k ad and go for the loot. Let’s say originally, the loot they wanted had a 10% chance of dropping. In that case the devs desired an economy where the average person would probably sink about 50-100k ad into key purchases for that loot. In the case where the player held onto the key, however, that economy sink is only 5k ad and nothing more. This led to the devs introducing all this intermediate mediocre loot like the +1 and +2 rings. They needed to expand the loot table to make drops still feel somehow impactful, while they decreased the chance of that “desired” drop to say, 2% or 1 in 50. The hope then was the economical sink would balance out, between those who waited with their one key, and those who spent resources on new ones each time.
This approach was likely deemed untenable, as it pissed off both the people who spent resources (“I’m just getting HAMSTER and HAMSTER again.”), and those who held their keys (“Well, still not going to use this key as this stuff is junk”). This led to both parties not running dungeons anymore, and possibly leaving.
Thus, the current solution was born. The goal was to reset and return the game economy to an equilibrium where resources are constantly being spent, and rewards are more consistently being given.
This way, if a chest loot table has an intended sink of say 50k, and a cost-per attempt of 5k, they can move the loot tables back up to 10% from 2%, and have everyone spend the intended resources.
Now, I want to make one final devil’s advocate point towards those who say that the rewards from the chest should be equal or greater to what they spend. If they are by standard, less than what you put in unless you get a good drop, is it gambling? I honestly think so, BUT, I also think this gambling method is necessary so long as the game stays primarily f2p. If a completely free player is not losing resources, what incentive do they have to invest either money or time into activities to gain more of those resources?
Let’s go back to that 5k key example. If the cost of the key and the “unlucky” reward for the key are both 5k ad, then you’re back to the same problem you had before. You get a single one-time investment, with no future growth or spending. Thus, for completely free players, the greater chance out of any loot table MUST be a loss of some sort because otherwise they have no incentive to spend any more time, money, or in-game resources to recoup their losses.
Now, an obvious solution that I WANT in light of these recent developments is to move some rewards over to VIP, like I’ve mentioned elsewhere. Give VIP players a legendary dragon key at a high rank, say 10 or above, and you then allow 2 methods of cash inflow. Either those few players who buy the keys from the zen store, just like the enchanted keys, or those more casual players who are willing to spend a little money regularly, like a subscription, but want that subscription to supplement casual gameplay costs.
Do I think this could have been communicated better? Absolutely, if I am right, they should be explaining this to folks. I can understand it being called a “bug”, however wide the disconnect with the playerbase may be, because at the current moment, it most likely is causing “unintended behavior and consequences”. But, it is poor wording at best without an explanation for the playerbase.
Now, of course if things stay the way they are now, with just the preview option gone, then yeah, things are going to suck, and they should make changes. I hope they already are, and are just leaving those things unsaid. So at best, this is just some poor communication to fix a potentially serious economic issue, and at worst, ½ of the solution to a problem. I’m cautiously optimistic, but I can certainly understand some folk’s anger.
I would agree with you, but ONLY if they bring the dungeon loots as they were on mod 2 - 4 [or 5, I can't remember well]: when defeating the last boss and opening the chest, you would get a epic gear [no blue, nor green, but purple!] and had a chance to get another purple item [look, I said A CHANCE, like 5-10%]. So, this way we could get a garanteed purple item and some other currencies/gear/weapons for your class and lvl, with a chance of another great loot.
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
To above, yes, I do not support this change without loot table rebalancing. Let that be clear. If this was implemented in the current economic system it would be bad. I fully support loot table rebalancing to go along with this to give better drops more often. They (the devs) leave us to infer that it might happen, but it really needs to be clearer.
Love yourself, and focus on the rest of the madness of life later.
I can see it now. "Ah yeah we were going to increase the loot tables and drop rates the whole time...whoops! Sorry we forgot to mention it in the blog." And then they won't say what the drop rates are now or will be after the change, but it's going to be a change from like 0.01% to 0.0125% for the good items. It won't be my exact example of course, but it's going to be some BS like that. And none of this changes the fact that they lied about it being a bug.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment here, and run through some hypothetical thoughts I think may have entered into this decision.
What I think likely happened here, is you had a spiraling case of behavior and poor loot chances that led to the same behavior and worse loot chances, which is where we are today.
At first the devs may have thought, “oh, alright, we’ll let them preview what they will loot, no big deal”. What likely happened then, however, is that looting and taking the goods decreased, as people held on to keys for a long period of time until that “magic” drop came that gave them everything or almost everything they needed.
What this did was stall the intended economy sinks and expenditures for the player as they might only spend $ once, or not at all with currencies.
Let’s say a dungeon key cost 5k ad. Under normal circumstances, anytime a player would want to get that key for the dungeon they would spend 5k ad and go for the loot. Let’s say originally, the loot they wanted had a 10% chance of dropping. In that case the devs desired an economy where the average person would probably sink about 50-100k ad into key purchases for that loot. In the case where the player held onto the key, however, that economy sink is only 5k ad and nothing more. This led to the devs introducing all this intermediate mediocre loot like the +1 and +2 rings. They needed to expand the loot table to make drops still feel somehow impactful, while they decreased the chance of that “desired” drop to say, 2% or 1 in 50. The hope then was the economical sink would balance out, between those who waited with their one key, and those who spent resources on new ones each time.
This approach was likely deemed untenable, as it pissed off both the people who spent resources (“I’m just getting HAMSTER and HAMSTER again.”), and those who held their keys (“Well, still not going to use this key as this stuff is junk”). This led to both parties not running dungeons anymore, and possibly leaving.
Thus, the current solution was born. The goal was to reset and return the game economy to an equilibrium where resources are constantly being spent, and rewards are more consistently being given.
This way, if a chest loot table has an intended sink of say 50k, and a cost-per attempt of 5k, they can move the loot tables back up to 10% from 2%, and have everyone spend the intended resources.
Now, I want to make one final devil’s advocate point towards those who say that the rewards from the chest should be equal or greater to what they spend. If they are by standard, less than what you put in unless you get a good drop, is it gambling? I honestly think so, BUT, I also think this gambling method is necessary so long as the game stays primarily f2p. If a completely free player is not losing resources, what incentive do they have to invest either money or time into activities to gain more of those resources?
Let’s go back to that 5k key example. If the cost of the key and the “unlucky” reward for the key are both 5k ad, then you’re back to the same problem you had before. You get a single one-time investment, with no future growth or spending. Thus, for completely free players, the greater chance out of any loot table MUST be a loss of some sort because otherwise they have no incentive to spend any more time, money, or in-game resources to recoup their losses.
Now, an obvious solution that I WANT in light of these recent developments is to move some rewards over to VIP, like I’ve mentioned elsewhere. Give VIP players a legendary dragon key at a high rank, say 10 or above, and you then allow 2 methods of cash inflow. Either those few players who buy the keys from the zen store, just like the enchanted keys, or those more casual players who are willing to spend a little money regularly, like a subscription, but want that subscription to supplement casual gameplay costs.
Do I think this could have been communicated better? Absolutely, if I am right, they should be explaining this to folks. I can understand it being called a “bug”, however wide the disconnect with the playerbase may be, because at the current moment, it most likely is causing “unintended behavior and consequences”. But, it is poor wording at best without an explanation for the playerbase.
Now, of course if things stay the way they are now, with just the preview option gone, then yeah, things are going to suck, and they should make changes. I hope they already are, and are just leaving those things unsaid. So at best, this is just some poor communication to fix a potentially serious economic issue, and at worst, ½ of the solution to a problem. I’m cautiously optimistic, but I can certainly understand some folk’s anger.
You seriously expect people to believe it was a bug?????? Come on we aren't stupid!!! That is just an insult to our intelligence that you would even say that. Be honest about it
Good job xeltey! Your first post as a Community Manager Administrator and you are now one of the most hated Cryptic employees around! Bravo!!
The thing that irks me the most about this is the pathetic drop rates of anything decent in those chests. And now you want to literally shovel that $#!^ down our throats without an option to say no thanks? My grinding and ridiculous 20 hour wait for a single key to be made is worth more than that stupid junk in the chest!
I guess it's time to see if the guild/alliance is looking into a new MMO to play/spend money on...
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
We could all migrate to a new mmo and even if it's dead our numbers can revive it and make it enjoyabke. Alliances will allow us all to stay together.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Shame! The rng in this game is already complete <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and now I can't decide if I want the 99.99% <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot? Bug? GTFO. It's a clear money grab and the fact that you try and lie makes it more insulting. You want to "fix" this supposed "bug" fine. Lower the zen price on all key's. Legendary Dragon's not by 50 zen more like 5 for 100z. Lower the production costs and time off all keys as well. How about you raise drop rates as well since it's all a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot. I quit Destiny because it was all money grab and this will soon follow unless something changes. I have no problem spending money just don't treat me like an arsehole for doing it.
Having cooled down after prev post, I have done the math:
25,000 AD for as Dragon key for whats is currently in the chest (based of prev bug come feature interactions I have preformed) in most cases if you do not get an item you wanted you could pass on to an alt (dead game idea as this game is not alt friendly now) you get 2,200AD – 5,000AD back for 25,000AD per key based of 500AD per Zen (current exchange rate backed up to the millions) because who is going to buy Zen when we have so many nerfs tio fume over and we can only vote with our wallets..
so 50 Zen per key (250 Zen/ 5keys) 50 zen at 500AD each = 25,000AD
even with a 15% off any item voucher 21,250AD per key for 2,200AD – 5,000AD back as a reward????
Do you really think people will buy keys for a RNG chance (based of prev bug come feature interactions we know the loot is HAMSTER 9 out of 10 times)10 % (being way to generous) at a major reward each key you spend 25,000AD for 3,000AD – 5,000AD haul (making sure you have raw AD prayer bot battling bonus available to maxmise the AD loss/gain??) so thats x5 to x8 loss of AD each chest you open.
The 40% of a Lotto Lock box key voucher at 75 Zen = 37,500AD has better odds and a chance at worse value but you dont need to get good gear get BiS enchants then find 5 people to run a dungeon to get them just a RNG on prayer, so little effort for millions of AD maybe and you know in advance it is lotto box so.....
Maybe it was a typo in the release and should have said 25 instead of 250 for Legendary Keys, because that's bout all the current chests are worth 99% of the time...
Essentially, this change is turning these chests into subpar lockboxes. If I wanted to gamble on a lockbox, why waste 15 minutes to an hour running content when I could just as easily stand in PE and gamble on normal lockboxes?
After Mod 10 was released, I decided I was not going to participate in FBI to grind for Relic Armor due to the EF entry requirement, time required to run the dungeon, time required to farm materials to upgrade and maintain the Relic Armor, and chest rewards that were not substantially better than 2k-2.5k level dungeons, skirmishes, etc...
I will also not be running the Mod 10.5 or 11 (or whatever they are calling it) to get the new Artifact weapons for pretty much the same reasons as above.
After this change, I guess I will have a lot of free time on my hands because I'm not spending 25k AD for a chance at a +1 Ring and Peridot.
> @ironzerg79 said: > Everyone flag the initial post as offensive > > All that's going to do is jam up the moderation queue...it's not something the developers actually look at. > > So...please don't. :smile: > > Thank you.
Devs have completely fd up with this announcement... The so called savior dev team lead Thomas Foss (Mimicking) better go back to making bored games, his silence on this latest travesty to the community is astounding. Either he has no say in the game or no interest in making it better and more rewarding, things he said he would do btw when he was reappointed to the role and has so far completely failed to deliver.
Comments
What I think likely happened here, is you had a spiraling case of behavior and poor loot chances that led to the same behavior and worse loot chances, which is where we are today.
At first the devs may have thought, “oh, alright, we’ll let them preview what they will loot, no big deal”. What likely happened then, however, is that looting and taking the goods decreased, as people held on to keys for a long period of time until that “magic” drop came that gave them everything or almost everything they needed.
What this did was stall the intended economy sinks and expenditures for the player as they might only spend $ once, or not at all with currencies.
Let’s say a dungeon key cost 5k ad. Under normal circumstances, anytime a player would want to get that key for the dungeon they would spend 5k ad and go for the loot. Let’s say originally, the loot they wanted had a 10% chance of dropping. In that case the devs desired an economy where the average person would probably sink about 50-100k ad into key purchases for that loot. In the case where the player held onto the key, however, that economy sink is only 5k ad and nothing more. This led to the devs introducing all this intermediate mediocre loot like the +1 and +2 rings. They needed to expand the loot table to make drops still feel somehow impactful, while they decreased the chance of that “desired” drop to say, 2% or 1 in 50. The hope then was the economical sink would balance out, between those who waited with their one key, and those who spent resources on new ones each time.
This approach was likely deemed untenable, as it pissed off both the people who spent resources (“I’m just getting HAMSTER and HAMSTER again.”), and those who held their keys (“Well, still not going to use this key as this stuff is junk”). This led to both parties not running dungeons anymore, and possibly leaving.
Thus, the current solution was born. The goal was to reset and return the game economy to an equilibrium where resources are constantly being spent, and rewards are more consistently being given.
This way, if a chest loot table has an intended sink of say 50k, and a cost-per attempt of 5k, they can move the loot tables back up to 10% from 2%, and have everyone spend the intended resources.
Now, I want to make one final devil’s advocate point towards those who say that the rewards from the chest should be equal or greater to what they spend. If they are by standard, less than what you put in unless you get a good drop, is it gambling? I honestly think so, BUT, I also think this gambling method is necessary so long as the game stays primarily f2p.
If a completely free player is not losing resources, what incentive do they have to invest either money or time into activities to gain more of those resources?
Let’s go back to that 5k key example. If the cost of the key and the “unlucky” reward for the key are both 5k ad, then you’re back to the same problem you had before. You get a single one-time investment, with no future growth or spending. Thus, for completely free players, the greater chance out of any loot table MUST be a loss of some sort because otherwise they have no incentive to spend any more time, money, or in-game resources to recoup their losses.
Now, an obvious solution that I WANT in light of these recent developments is to move some rewards over to VIP, like I’ve mentioned elsewhere. Give VIP players a legendary dragon key at a high rank, say 10 or above, and you then allow 2 methods of cash inflow. Either those few players who buy the keys from the zen store, just like the enchanted keys, or those more casual players who are willing to spend a little money regularly, like a subscription, but want that subscription to supplement casual gameplay costs.
Do I think this could have been communicated better? Absolutely, if I am right, they should be explaining this to folks. I can understand it being called a “bug”, however wide the disconnect with the playerbase may be, because at the current moment, it most likely is causing “unintended behavior and consequences”. But, it is poor wording at best without an explanation for the playerbase.
Now, of course if things stay the way they are now, with just the preview option gone, then yeah, things are going to suck, and they should make changes. I hope they already are, and are just leaving those things unsaid. So at best, this is just some poor communication to fix a potentially serious economic issue, and at worst, ½ of the solution to a problem.
I’m cautiously optimistic, but I can certainly understand some folk’s anger.
Best wishes all,
@vandignesca
you guys are HAMSTER despicable. HAMSTER drop rate on everything, expecialy paid key chests and so you take away the chance of saving a key to not use on HAMSTER and reduce the price of paid keys by FREAKING 50 instead of turning them to 50 zen to make sence of this stupid madness.
"We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not, and because the Neverwinter design team will be better able to design rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed." are you serious? shamelessly spiting on the face of people who play your game.
No more AD from invoking, no more gateway so i can't use my tablet when not at home to do professions.
No more Sword coast mini game (after i spent 2 mil getting pets that would let me kick the final boss in the epic dung)
So i can get companion gear and all the fun stuff
Punishing the MAJORITY for the aspects of a few once more. Now you say it is raining but it isn't rain. They keys we have always had with the option to loot or not to loot, look back on your own patch notes. It wasn't a bug, your trying to turn NvW into p2p everyone can see it yet your still trying to keep it advertised as F2P. Your not making it impossible for the new player to get going, just like cigarettes. Your going to start killing your core people without getting the new people playing, thus your really just killing the game... this must be your goal as you keep doing it and making it worse. Maybe the company is tired of making money with this and just want to kill the game without bothering to just say that. So your trying to kill your core players as well. Well even if that is your aim, your doing it. Next comes you won't have enough money coming in to pay for the servers then game crashes all the time from lack of upkeep then everyone quits and then you have no more game. the end
Even discounting the less-fun nature of "farming key mats in a one-person zone" compared to "playing with other players", and even ignoring the stuff from the free chests, you're still losing 75-95% of your value *almost every time*.
(And also, in the process, telling people that using a prominent feature, that was touted as a feature when it was implemented, is suddenly a bannable offense. Which is a whole different kettle of lutefisk)
There's no indication in the announcement (and there's been no followup/clarification!) that they understand just how expensive campaign keys *are*, or just how lousy the chest loot really is. And your hypothetical about how cheap keys with a majority loss, minority profit, rare great profit, and very rare JACKPOT would work makes sense.... but it's not the current situation and there's no indication that the developers have *anything like that* in mind.
But that sort of explanation needs to come from the developers, not just "Hey guys, we fixed a bug!" junk that we got fed.
Also, yes, at the VERY BEST, I would still agree that what we have here is poor communication. If this change is done in the absense of other balancing changes, then yeah it sucks full HAMSTER.
However, if my speculation is correct, then I support the change along with the consequences I outlined.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
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[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
The thing that irks me the most about this is the pathetic drop rates of anything decent in those chests. And now you want to literally shovel that $#!^ down our throats without an option to say no thanks? My grinding and ridiculous 20 hour wait for a single key to be made is worth more than that stupid junk in the chest!
I guess it's time to see if the guild/alliance is looking into a new MMO to play/spend money on...
So...please don't.
Thank you.
25,000 AD for as Dragon key for whats is currently in the chest (based of prev bug come feature interactions I have preformed) in most cases if you do not get an item you wanted you could pass on to an alt (dead game idea as this game is not alt friendly now) you get 2,200AD – 5,000AD back for 25,000AD per key based of 500AD per Zen (current exchange rate backed up to the millions) because who is going to buy Zen when we have so many nerfs tio fume over and we can only vote with our wallets..
so 50 Zen per key (250 Zen/ 5keys)
50 zen at 500AD each = 25,000AD
even with a 15% off any item voucher 21,250AD per key for 2,200AD – 5,000AD back as a reward????
Do you really think people will buy keys for a RNG chance (based of prev bug come feature interactions we know the loot is HAMSTER 9 out of 10 times)10 % (being way to generous) at a major reward each key you spend 25,000AD for 3,000AD – 5,000AD haul (making sure you have raw AD prayer bot battling bonus available to maxmise the AD loss/gain??) so thats x5 to x8 loss of AD each chest you open.
The 40% of a Lotto Lock box key voucher at 75 Zen = 37,500AD has better odds and a chance at worse value but you dont need to get good gear get BiS enchants then find 5 people to run a dungeon to get them just a RNG on prayer, so little effort for millions of AD maybe and you know in advance it is lotto box so.....
Essentially, this change is turning these chests into subpar lockboxes. If I wanted to gamble on a lockbox, why waste 15 minutes to an hour running content when I could just as easily stand in PE and gamble on normal lockboxes?
After Mod 10 was released, I decided I was not going to participate in FBI to grind for Relic Armor due to the EF entry requirement, time required to run the dungeon, time required to farm materials to upgrade and maintain the Relic Armor, and chest rewards that were not substantially better than 2k-2.5k level dungeons, skirmishes, etc...
I will also not be running the Mod 10.5 or 11 (or whatever they are calling it) to get the new Artifact weapons for pretty much the same reasons as above.
After this change, I guess I will have a lot of free time on my hands because I'm not spending 25k AD for a chance at a +1 Ring and Peridot.
> Everyone flag the initial post as offensive
>
> All that's going to do is jam up the moderation queue...it's not something the developers actually look at.
>
> So...please don't. :smile:
>
> Thank you.
Those cheeky buggers