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  • lonewolfmk1lonewolfmk1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    luks707 said:



    I've seen, in all of the MMOs I've played, players get upset over proposed changes/class balances and then run to the forums to claim it will ruin the game, and/or threaten to quit. Then, once those changes go live, they continue to log in and adapt to the changes, realizing they aren't so bad.

    If this change has you (the general you, not you sameriker) considering quitting the game, do so. You either need a break or you were already considering quitting.

    You are missing that people aren't just upset about the change. I for one am primarily upset at being lied to blatantly. Why would anyone spend good money on a company that lies to them?
    Well the steam statistics seem to disagree with you there:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/109600#All

    With this "bugfix" i fully expect another -10% players for november, despite the new mod...

    I think my thoughts towards this "bugfix" have already been posted hundreds of times in this thread.

    But hey, at least cryptic is bringing back the fun back into nw! I mean, reading through this thread has been more enjoyable than the last couple of mods...
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User

    What the....ridiculous. One of the worst game decisions i've ever witnessed. Bye-bye, dungeons!


    No, no, they already removed most of the dungeons mods ago.

  • swirve#6429 swirve Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    Wow those steam numbers are terrible surely that can only be a small portion of the PC playerbase?
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    loboguild said:

    The official thread is blowing up and I think an official dev response is needed. Urgently. There is more talk than ever about players leaving the game. Probably not solely because of the change, but stuff added up over time. Players not for the first time are feeling they are being lied to (bugfix?) and we need a roadmap how you want to adjust the current discrepancy of key worth and chest reward.

    I never specifically liked how Shicoff managed the game, but he at least didn't deliver major changes like Leadership through a random Frenchie. @panderus, @terramak, @mimicking#6533 or whoever is responsible for the change: Time to show some balls...

    Merged your thread with the main one. I have also made contact with a dev (not someone in charge mind you, but one of the devs) to make sure they realize how bad this is. I am hoping they will say something by the end of today, but I'm not going to make promises.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
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  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    desisti said:

    Afterall you will need him and Andy to help voice the player's concerns over this change to the developers at Cryptic. ;)

    Erm... don't get me wrong but, when exactly advocating in behalf of players helped. Name one, just one big decision which was overturned because andy (or acro before him) advocated in behalf of players... that is correct, not once.
    @desisti Actually that is completely incorrect. :)

    The problem is the decisions which get overturned or at least have compromises made are not remembered as vividly as the times changes went through even if you don't like them.

    One easy example is the lostmauth set change. It was not overturned because it needed to happen. As controversial as it was it was a highly requested change for a long time. Andy fought long and hard to try to make that change easier for players who were being negatively impacted and without his voice the changes would have been made without any consideration other than how soon to "nerf" the sets.


    That being said, nobody likes having their toys taken away even if it is for the better. The changes likely most keenly remembered are likely times that players got their toys taken away for good reason and the CM's were explaining the reasons the changes were made. I.E. Chest loot being change to BoP. People still complain about it today and I still tell people it was one of the better changes that ever happened whether they realize or accept it or not.

    This decision is unpopular and right now they did not provide any evidence to show any positive effect from this change or any rational for why it should change. We'll see what Andyy says when he gets back but there are dozens of changes and QoL improvements players owe to Andy and Xelty. A lot of it happens behind the scenes or is unnoticed but I promise you changes would be a lot more heavy handed if Andy and Xelty express how badly certain changes either are or appear to be to the players.
    Cryptic used to listen to the players, long ago. Many bad changes were vetted by the playerbase and never implemented. Now? Cryptic doesn't care. They do what they want and add pitiful "thank you" gifts such as the useless gateway pet. A gesture of goodwill would be cancelling the implementation of this change and make it a feature instead. But instead we're going to get some random useless HAMSTER that will only add salt on the wounds and an insult to the injury. Actually, the original dungeon delve hourly event back in its beta form would be an acceptable compromise too.
  • emplicitleyemplicitley Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I always stood by what you did and always defended the changes made to this game. But calling the ability to see what is in a chest a bug is downright stupid

    It has been this way for as long as I can remember. And if it was really a game breaking bug why take a year or more to finally fix it.

    I am never spending real money on zen again. I am very sad that this game has gone from something great to something where you want to squeeze all the money out of your player base
  • midpoint#3070 midpoint Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    I couldn't play last night, first time in mod 10. Can't ever recall a game with an update where I was so angry I couldn't play.

    Seriously we the community need to send a message. I think the best way to do that is boycott the game for 48hrs. Go back to ESO or WOW, your family whatever. Just leave the game for now and wait for the official response.
  • xxmantaraxxxxmantaraxx Member Posts: 361 Arc User
    talon1970 said:

    So please bring back the bug...eerrrrm i mean feature, while entering a dungeon, pressing "J", looking if it is worth running elol, cn whatever.
    So if noone in the party has the chance of good loot, we can leave....reenter...leave...reenter until someone is yelling "Lets do the run this time, orcus shard, lost horn (something else witch is worth doing that) is showing up..gogogogo!!!"


    Sometimes i am still thinking: "You was an extremly idiot, when Mod1 (Sharandar) went live and i was refusing for myself, opening the old Nightmare Lockboxes get an Mystic Nightmare for free (i had 4 or 5 keys) and nothing happened to the people, bc Cryptic announced later, that was their own fault."
    (veteran players will know what i mean)

    I am right there with you!!!!! I was sitting on 20+ keys when that happened. I logged in, saw the chaos of everyone getting a mystic nightmare mount. I just did my professions and logged out. I was convinced that it would be another caturday and there would be a server rewind. NOPE. I still kick myself for not jumping on the bandwagon.

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  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    Merged your thread with the main one. I have also made contact with a dev (not someone in charge mind you, but one of the devs) to make sure they realize how bad this is. I am hoping they will say something by the end of today, but I'm not going to make promises.

    Thanks @kreatyve I saw @asterdahl was active a little bit ago so hopefully he's also helping get the message to the right place (unless he's the dev you're referring to haha).

    At this point, I believe that more important than getting some sort of fast response is getting a thoughtful one. Are they aware that they manner and timing of this communication was inexcusably poor? Or do they think that this is approach is just fine?

    To be frank, it seems unfair to the volunteer mods that they behave this way. You get hit with a majority of angry and sometimes vile community outrage and are forced to defend decisions and a gameplan that you are not kept updated on. It seems like they deliberately blindside the community because they think you can pick up the pieces and soak up the hate. Is that characterization too dramatic?
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    dupeks said:

    kreatyve said:

    Merged your thread with the main one. I have also made contact with a dev (not someone in charge mind you, but one of the devs) to make sure they realize how bad this is. I am hoping they will say something by the end of today, but I'm not going to make promises.

    Thanks @kreatyve I saw @asterdahl was active a little bit ago so hopefully he's also helping get the message to the right place (unless he's the dev you're referring to haha).

    At this point, I believe that more important than getting some sort of fast response is getting a thoughtful one. Are they aware that they manner and timing of this communication was inexcusably poor? Or do they think that this is approach is just fine?

    To be frank, it seems unfair to the volunteer mods that they behave this way. You get hit with a majority of angry and sometimes vile community outrage and are forced to defend decisions and a gameplan that you are not kept updated on. It seems like they deliberately blindside the community because they think you can pick up the pieces and soak up the hate. Is that characterization too dramatic?
    Oh, I made it very clear that the communication was very poor. Honestly, it's what has me most upset. The change itself is upsetting, but not nearly as bad, to me, as accusing the majority of the player base of exploiting - again!
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    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
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  • weaver936weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    I know @weaver936 wants to see the positive in this but there has not been one word about improved drops, refactoring of the key creation system, etc. All we know is apparently they are "fixing" a "bug". Anything more than that is hopeful assumptions at best.

    I've been around long enough to know that the devs rarely mention the really good reasons they do some things... and i raged enough about certain changes in the past and then realized I was ignorant and stupid for having raged about them. :D. As things develop... I always seem to find taht the changes being made aren't as bad as I thought they would be and actually have many POSITIVE consequences I didn't consider before hand... because i was too busy raging about them changing something I relied on a lot.

    Gateway being gone.. I said some really not nice things to the devs then.. but.. ultimately.. it's an overall plus to the game. Nerfing invoking.... I was really mad... but... overall a positive.

    It's good they don't release certain aspects of their planning. Like.. IF they are going to provide better loot. The game has to go on while they program such additional aspects of the game.

    Think about Mod 10... and now 10.5.... without Mod 10.5, Relic gear.. SKT and all that seems really pointless... BUT.. with everything coming in 10.5... it all makes sense to me now. and I'm freaking happy. No more is it only the super-elite that get to enjoy the game (and treat lower IL people like HAMSTER).
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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    xeltey said:

    There is a feature in the Neverwinter game whereby players can open a bonus chest at the end of certain dungeons through use of special items named:

    • Legendary Dragon Key
    • Daily Dungeon Chest Key
    • Epic Dungeon Chest Key
    • Standard Dungeon Chest Key
    • Mystic Dragon Key
    • Arcane Dragon Key
    • Dragon Queen’s Key
    • Lesser Demonic Key
    • Greater Demonic Key
    • Malabog’s Castle Key
    • Valindra’s Tower Key
    • Kessell’s Retreat Key
    • Ancient Runic Key
    • Dark Fey Key
    • Thayan Chest Key
    • Thayan Lair Key
    Keys are currently acquired by purchasing them from the Zen Market, completing certain campaign tasks, or obtaining them from certain non-player characters. Each key can be used to open and claim the rewards from one chest.

    In the Sea of Moving Ice update releasing on the live server on November 8th, there will be a change happening to how these keys work.

    There is currently a bug on the live server whereby a player may view the rewards without using a key. This bug has been fixed. When this fix gets to the live server, opening a chest will consume the key, give the player the rewards, and display those rewards to the player. To ensure that keys are not accidentally used, the user interface in game will alert you to which key would be consumed and ask for confirmation before continuing.

    Since this bug has been live for a long time and we believe that some players may have come to rely on this bug, we are providing advance notice of the change.

    As part of this change we are also lowering the cost of the Zen store item “Legendary Dragon Key 5-Pack” from 300 Zen to 250 Zen.

    We are pleased to address this bug because it resolves an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not, and because the Neverwinter design team will be better able to design rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed.

    - The Neverwinter Team
    OMG will you never learn.. COAL WARD PART TWO HERE WE GO!!

    no.. don't do this. take it off the table now. you really don't want to relive that do you.. this is a bad bad bad choice. don't make bad choices like this cryptic.

    250 omg small reduction. 100 zen maybe. make it much much easier to make in campaigns.. you need to make this key free flowing if you're going to do this change.

    you're going to lose people over this a lot of them probably. please don't do it.
  • xxmantaraxxxxmantaraxx Member Posts: 361 Arc User

    Exactly. The root cause is NOT the peeking.

    It's the fact that we HAD to peek because the loot SUCKED.

    That's the bottom line. If 95% of the time people actually USED the key to TAKE the loot, this would be a non-issue.

    image

    Do the developer not see this? I'm literally exasperated to the point where it's getting tough to type.

    The loot is so bad in the game that people are clearing content, opening up the reward chest and saying, "No thanks".

    Can we let that sink in for a minute.

    Sinking...






    Sinking...





    Sinking...





    Do you get it now? Loot. An aspect that is so fundamental to Dungeons and Dragons. The entire point of there being Dungeons to delve and Dragons to kill is to take their loot.

    And you guys have literally created some bizarro-world D&D where thousands and thousands and thousands of adventures are literally exercising their option to not take the loot because it's so bad.

    The dragon dies.

    The loot chest opens.

    And the heroes politely decline.

    image

    You ABSOLUTELY naild it Ironzerg. Thank you for saying what I was having a hard time expressing.

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  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    Can I get an answer if I'm exploiting the game if I press the Decline button now? Will I be banned?
  • isaintify1isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
    I mean I do not understand what the problem is... I mean I love when I get a rank 5 enchantment drop from droopy in Fang Breaker Island. The rewards from dungeons are so exciting its crazy! I cant wait to have my key be forcefully used to open a chest to get another rank 5.
  • uptondarkdiamonduptondarkdiamond Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    If anything should be taken away from this thread is the fact that many are not happy with the current RnG to get loot in this game. I am one of those people, I play neverwinter ALOT its been almost a year since Underdark went live and I have exactly 0 +5 rings of any form, and by 0 I mean i have never seen one drop for me.

    And now your going to make it even harder for me to get one of those items.... total BS

    Like I said, one of the big take aways should be that we as a player base do not like the current RnG behind many of the items we need to get to advance our character and the next mod is making it even worse.... Don't get me started on how impossible it is to advance an Alternate Character atm...

    You already have a system in place to ease the RnG without making it ridiculously easy....

    These items (+5 rings, armor shells from the new zone, lanolin, etc....) should be available for purchase through the campaign store using the already established campaign currencies and different seals you have in the game. Again, no body is asking for it to be supper easy to get these items but there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel.... cmon its be a year and still no +5 ring drop.....

    Here is a simple form of my idea....

    1. New campaign comes out.

    2. RnG still in play for getting some of that. (With this RnG still in play you could maybe go faster then the time gate if your "lucky")

    3. Campaign store has away to get the requirements to get item without RnG (using previous campaign currency, new campaign currency, and crafting). This give us a reason to go to the older zones and keeps crafting current within the context of the new campaign.
    3.a. If you have to time gate (which I would understand and think most players would understand) use the non RnG method as a time gate threshold.

    Where does this leave keys for dungeons?

    If you continue with the projected path it could still work in your favor and this is how I would see it working.

    1. 3 chests (or 1 at the end of a dungeon). 1 uses freebie key, 1 uses campaign key, 1 uses zen key (or allow the user to select which to to use if only 1 chest is at the end of the dungeon).

    2. RnG for each chest (or key) is different. Each of the keys would increase the percent chance to get some coveted loot.

    3. Also, as part of the chests (or keys) the player would get and increasing(based on chest open or key used) amount of whatever gated currency they need to get that same item for the campaign store.

    The last thing about this concept of mine... each key would represent different bind level for the loot obtained. The freebie key should be bind to character, the campaign key should be bind to account, and the zen key should be bind on equip...

    Guys please stop putting all this stuff behind ridiculous amount of RnG, its not fun. This game has an awesome platform finding more creative ways to get us to support you ($$) should be your priority. Gating every good thing behind keys (gambling) is not fun, especially when there is no end insight. Your on the threshold of another mod 6 exodus, it time to think outside the box, stop hiding every good thing behind keys, this boring and not creative.

    @panderus, @terramak, @mimicking#6533, please take these and other idea's into consideration, people do not like the RnG of this game and its getting out of control, please fix it! :)

    I think @ironzerg79 sums this up best here:

    You basically boil it down to AD generation, that is not why I played the game, AD generation was a vehicle for me to play with friends and guildmates. I veiw this a bit more collaboratively then you have I guess. I am not in competition with them, I dont win the game just because I make more AD then someone else. When I see friends or guildmates progress a item , get a win.. its always GRATZ from me.

    @silverkelt I'm in the same boat as you. I'm just here to have a good time. I'm not looking to get rich or earn fake money.

    Hell, that's why we named out Alliance "The Tuxedo T-Shirt". It's not about the damn Astral Diamonds.

    As you said, AD is just a means to an end. But that end should be fun. It should be fun to do these dungeons, go on these quests and follow the story. And traditionally the very best way to cap off a great dungeon/quest/story in D&D was to deliver on the loot.

    And the loot freaking sucks. As @thefabricant already pointed out, the grind to get even the simplest of reward is so punishing, it's sucking the joy out of Neverwinter.

    @mimicking#6533 When Drizzt and Wulfgar slew the dragon Ingeloakastimizilian, Drizzt was able to lay claim to his legendary scimitar which he named Icingdeath after the dragon. That's his iconic weapon. But he didn't go through the treasure pile and pull out a rusty battle axe, 8 copper and a peridot. Nor did he open up some ancient treasure chest to find the booby prize.

    He overcame a monumental challenge, and claimed his reward.

    Now I've been a veteran of MMOs for over 20 years now. I know how the game is played. Our "Drizzt" moment is going to be built on repetition. We're going to kill the dragon 5, 10, maybe 20 times...and then we get rewarded with our own Icydeath. And it's a great feeling that gets people excited. It makes them feel satisfied. It's the capstone that makes the journey totally worth it. And we're going to help out friends kill that dragon another 100 times so they can have their "Drizzt" moment.

    But the way the game is set up now, and going forward is not only is it so punishing to get to that "Drizzt" moment, the chances of actually getting that legendary reward is about 1 in 5000. Which leads so many players to ask, "Why bother?"

    SPOILER ALERT!!!!! Stop reading if you haven't gone through the RA Salvatore novels.

    Think about it this way. Imagine an alternate timeline where Drizzt's world is control by the same machinations as Neverwinter. What happens to Drizzt? He dies to the balor, Ertu, early in the series. He doesn't find Icingdeath in the lair of Ingeloakastimizilian. He isn't granted it's protection from fire, and when Ertu's whip wraps around his ankle and pulls him close...he dies. Burnt to a crisp if he's lucky. Sentence to eternal torture and pain at the hand of Ertu in the Abyss if he's not.

    Eternal torture and pain.

    Or decades of amazing and exciting stories that has thrilled a generation or three of readers?

    That's the choice. And it all comes down to letting your heroes have a little loot.

    And right now, what do you think a majority of players feel like? Are they the shiny hero Drizzt, wielding the might blade called Icingdeath.

    Or are they that burnt out husk, left to rot on the floor in a cave in Icewind Dale?
    One last thing i'm still P.O.ed that a feature is being called a bug.... I just don't understand how this was programmed (by you the game makers).... i really don't understand.....
  • draguluudraguluu Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    So the decline button that has been there for yrs is a bug. Come on lol least be honest.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Heroes in the sky made a bad move like cryptic is making now. That amazing game closed shortly after.
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  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,183 Arc User

    I couldn't play last night, first time in mod 10. Can't ever recall a game with an update where I was so angry I couldn't play.



    Seriously we the community need to send a message. I think the best way to do that is boycott the game for 48hrs. Go back to ESO or WOW, your family whatever. Just leave the game for now and wait for the official response.



    Yeah for the first time in nearly 3 years i have logged off after an hour in the game, was mostly chatting with a friend, didn't do anything just my daily on 1 toon. I have never missed a day, except for job or hospital stay, i have even logged on during holidays.

    Tonight i felt burnt out, had no desire to do anything at all. When you don't see the end of the tunnel it is really hard to keep yourself focused.

    It's like the phrase we have about the bad teacher, which says you don't hate the subject, you hate the teacher.

    I will stay, but if these changes go live i will have to limit my playtime and search something as my primary. RNG in RNG in RNG and etc. meh.

    I did miss a lot of good movies and series, time to catch up, while waiting for the outcome here.





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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    Here is the reason I see these changes were made:

    1) The new raid next mod has 3 chests that all require legendary dragon keys. In theory, you could get your 3 free keys per day and open them all once, but due to point 2, this is not a feasible way of acquiring what you need.

    2) In order to upgrade the new artifact weapons, you need legendary marks. These conveniently will drop in the chests in the new raid. They likely have a drop rate similar to legendary rings or even lower. Either way, they are bound to account, so you can't even sell them assuming you get them, or buy them from someone who does. So, if your RNG sucks, then tough luck, you are not upgrading your gear.

    3) The new raid is significantly easier than Fangbreaker Island. Even the 3.2k version is, I would say, as hard as edemo. This makes no sense standing by itself, considering how high the requirements ARE.

    4) PVP players will pay for any advantage in PVP. Even if this means spending 10's of thousands of zen. The new weapons offer a clear advantage, they are also conveniently nigh on impossible to acquire unless you intend to spend a lot of zen on legendary dragon keys.

    Conclusion? The new raid is so easy because it is meant to be farmable for pvp players. If they had made it too difficult for pvp players and whales to run, then they wouldn't spend money on the keys they would need to open the chests to get the marks. Conveniently, if those pvp players are willing to fork out 10k zen or so for legendary dragon keys, they can have their fully upgraded new shiny weapons...Which will be their new, "ambush ring" or "drains" to give them that extra competitive edge that they all really crave having.
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User
    Time for me to join in. :3


  • thegrimner#3435 thegrimner Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    I joined to add my voice to the discontent. These changes will depopulate a lot of the skirmishes and raids available, as the risk of a crappy reward is just not worth it. It also will not be worth it to essentially do a day grinding for materials, and another waiting for the key to drop just so I can take my chances at getting loot that's essentially worth less than the key I am holding. Paying for the keys is also out of the question, the price you're actually asking equates to 1€ per key. Anyone keen on actually grinding a bit will effectively pay you the price of full Tripe A releases in a couple of weeks, and will effectively be paying to gamble on the glorified slot machines that are the loot chests. Also, if I might add, insulting your costumers intelligence and their character by saying we're exploiting a bug that was there clearly by design is also not very nice. I haven't called you guys a bunch of lying no good two bit scam artists... yet. I'd like the same courtesy.

    In fact, the only sort of compromise I could see would be one where not only were the rewards in the chests improved, but the per diam bonus extended to epic chests also now extended to Legendary dragon keys, and we'd be given at least one key per diam with a Vip account. That would be manageable and would mitigate the blow considerable, and maybe give you back an ounce of good will which, by the looks of this unanimously negative vocal outcry, you guys will be sorely needing. Success of f2p communities relies, believe it or not, entirely on goodwill, and happy costumers will pay gladly if they're enjoying themselves, even if they don't need to. Disgruntled players who feel backstabbed just leave and generate bad publicity.

    Failing that, you can always work on fixing bugs. Like the horrible stuttering, freezes, pop in/out of creature for no apparent reason, and just generally optimising your game to all the platforms. That's certainly a much more productive use of everyone's time.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    Oh, hamster it.


    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Don't worry...
    The black hand will find ways for you to open chest without spending keys.
    We always do....
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  • irishkabishoujoirishkabishoujo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Russian community is against such "fixes" !
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    edited October 2016



    The loot is so bad in the game that people are clearing content, opening up the reward chest and saying, "No thanks".

    Can we let that sink in for a minute.

    Sinking...

    [...]

    Do you get it now? Loot. An aspect that is so fundamental to Dungeons and Dragons. The entire point of there being Dungeons to delve and Dragons to kill is to take their loot.

    And you guys have literally created some bizarro-world D&D where thousands and thousands and thousands of adventures are literally exercising their option to not take the loot because it's so bad.

    The dragon dies.

    The loot chest opens.

    And the heroes politely decline.

    You ABSOLUTELY naild it Ironzerg. Thank you for saying what I was having a hard time expressing.
    Yes, this EXACTLY.

    And, joining the chorus: Dungeon keys are VERY EXPENSIVE: take a KR key, for example. An hour of time doing 6 quests across 2 zones, then 20 hours of waiting, and it pops a single KR key. In the chest in KR, you most likely get a single item worth 2000AD and some garbage worth nothing. 2200 with VIP, 3300 if you've got spare Invoke Bonus left. For an hour of my play time farming up the materials to make the key, I get two things: 3K AD, and DISAPPOINTMENT.

    Let's consider: how much AD I could earn in that hour if instead of farming Icewind Dale quests to get mats for a KR key, I ran two dungeons and two skirmishes each on two characters? About 40,000, right, with invoke bonus, not counting any loot from any chests at all? If you think that's unrealistically fast for 8 runs (its not), halve it, and I'm still making 20KAD. Hell, quarter it, and I'm still making WAY MORE spending my time running KR with NO KR key than I am getting KR keys!

    Greater Demon Keys? Cost 300 Faezress and 20 hours. 300 Faezress is two gold Edemo runs (yeah, you need to run it AT LEAST TWICE to get enough material to make ONE key! And that key is required in CN, too!), and the chest contains, 95% of the time, that same 3K AD.

    People are using the "Decline" button BUILT INTO THE INTERFACE and getting the decline action CODED INTO THE GAME DELIBERATELY to avoid spending expensive keys to get worthless junk. And it's not a bug. Don't call this "patching a bug" or "fixing an exploit", because there's no way a decline button and a "close window, return key, do not pick up loot" option is an UNINTENTIONAL ADDITION.

    You're "concerned" that players are DOING THE THING YOU SPECIFICALLY MADE POSSIBLE because the loot in the chest is usually garbage and the keys required to open the chest are REALLY EXPENSIVE, TIMEWISE? I can see two major things to be concerned about, but blaming players for not spending massive amounts of time to pick up garbage is not one of them. It's the "massive amounts of time" and the "garbage", not the "players choosing" that's the problem.
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