TR next rework/revamp feedbacks and ideas

alexonic · October 2016

Hi, in this thread i'm going to show and discuss my ideas/feedbacks for the next TR rework.
As a TR (whisperknife) and DC, i noticed the incredible squishness of the TR in the end game dungeons.
I've seen TRs having fear to get close to the fight cause of some random oneshot (even while being in the astral shield).
TRs is a melee dps class, and if we compare the defensive side of the other melee classes, the difference is just too much.
So, i think that one of the problems of the TR (PVE side) is their squishness in the end game dungeons.
It also need a little buff on the damage it can output.

Here my feedback and ideas:

Smoke bomb effect added: being in the smoky area makes the TR so hard to see that their deflection chance is increased
rank1 25% deflection chance
rank2 +15% deflection chance (40% total)
rank3 +15% deflection chance (55% total)
rank4 +15% deflection chance (70% total)
This effect shouldn't work against players. TR in pvp is already good.

New daily power 'Maximum Dextriety':
While active, this power makes the TR so agile that every incoming damage will be deflected (not dodged).
Activating this power will not consume AP, part of them will be consumed when taking damage, the player can deactivate it by pressing again the buttons.
It's not necessary to have full AP to activate this power. Can't be activated if the TR doesn't have enough AP to deflect at least one incoming damage.
This power has no animation, so it can be used while attacking without stopping (like a potion).
While active, the TR will have some aura on the body, and the screen will become a bit shodowy on the borders, also there will be a sound effect which can be heared only by the player. All of this needs to make the player understand if the power is already active or not.
rank1 AP consumed when taking damage 25%
rank2 AP consumed when taking damage 20%
rank3 AP consumed when taking damage 15%
rank1 AP consumed when taking damage 10%

Tenacious Concealment: this passive is bugged, the reduced stealth loss works only when you're already in stealth.
As a TR, i really hate to see my stealth bar be emptied cause of the damage taken, we need the stealth to be competitive in dps.

Dazing Strike: this power is not bad, but often this happen:
>i go stealth
>i use dazing strike against a group of enemies in front of me
>dazing strike hits just one or two of them
>i get annoied
this power needs too much positioning to be effective, its area effect must be adjusted making it more like a semi-circle instead of a cone.
So, I would make it with a longer range, always multitarget, like a semi-circle of 270 degree in front of you, and it should put dots if used while in stealth.

Deft Strike: teleporting to your allies while in stealth is useless.
I use this power in pvp and getting teleported to an ally instead of doing damage to an enemy, makes it a waste.
So, this power should not make you able to teleport to your allies, it's just annoing when it happens.
Allies should not be considered as a target.

At the moment, these are my feedbacks

aaramis75 · October 2016

The squishiness of the TR in certain situations, in my opinion, isn't so much a design flaw with the class, but moreso the silly one-shot abilities of some enemies.

Between careful attention, our dodge roll immunity, and ItC, I can avoid 95% of stuff if I choose to and am not distracted or have bad lag.

The other 5% of the time, however, I'm in trouble. And the vast majority of those times tend to be from phase spiders. They're just downright silly.
- I have over 100k hps, easily. I still get 1-shot like I'm a 1500 iL scrub.
- phase spider's special attack isn't overly well choreographed. You have less than a second to react, or it's sayonara.
- in a mass melee with spell effects going off everywhere, it's a visual that's very hard to see
- you can die from almost 10 feet away. I've had spiders kill me when I'm not even CLOSE to melee range with them
- if in the middle of a DF flurry, I can end up teleporting with the spider - into the aiming range of another one. It's happened *a lot*.

I don't disagree that we need the powers revised. Some of them are outdated, and seldom / never used. But that's another post entirely

talon1970 · October 2016

Uuuhm no....your ideas had (again) a too high impact in PvP, so people will (again) complain, that the Tr is too strong (unkillable).
Personally i don't feel that my Tr is too squishy (except FBI but every class can be one-shotted in there).
Tbh can't speak for an Wk, never played it bc these Paragon Path cannot using ITC.

My personal thoughts are, to become the Tr as an more viable Class in Pve are, increase his debuff abilitys and an rework of the ridicolous high cooldowns for some encounters.

Why debuff?

- For me the game has changed since Mod6, from pure personal dps, to an situation: What is possible to increase everyones dps, if there is as much buff/debuff in the party everyone can offer.

- debuffs are not that important in PvP (maybe i am wrong, bc i don't play it, so some Pvp Players can correct me).

So:

- increasing dps from wicked reminder and bring it back to an larger aoe attack.

- smokebomb has an debuff ability (but that will not happend, bc too high impact of PvP)

- Lurkers Assault should have increased dps and debuff ability with every attack LA is activated. (not stacking with Weapon Enchants like the Mod5 fiasko with SoD and plaguefire).

- reduce the cooldown from encounters like smoke and lashing blade (i know i know PvP, but other classes like Cw has encounters like disintegrate with an very low cd, so deal with it).

kinganuthin · October 2016

i think all that is really needed is a boost to smoke bomb damage, or a quick and easy way to switch encounters. I've no beefs with single target. It's the aoe that's weak.
Im usually running smoke bomb, itc (press the advantage), shadow strike (a full stealth flurry during SoD better than lashing)
I'd like to run smoke, blade flurry, and itc for large groups, and then quick switch to wicked reminder, shadow strike and itc for single target. I tried switching during Tia but it was just too pita.

ajlir · October 2016

talon1970 said:
Uuuhm no....your ideas had (again) a too high impact in PvP, so people will (again) complain, that the Tr is too strong (unkillable).
Personally i don't feel that my Tr is too squishy (except FBI but every class can be one-shotted in there).
Tbh can't speak for an Wk, never played it bc these Paragon Path cannot using ITC.

My personal thoughts are, to become the Tr as an more viable Class in Pve are, increase his debuff abilitys and an rework of the ridicolous high cooldowns for some encounters.

Why debuff?

- For me the game has changed since Mod6, from pure personal dps, to an situation: What is possible to increase everyones dps, if there is as much buff/debuff in the party everyone can offer.

- debuffs are not that important in PvP (maybe i am wrong, bc i don't play it, so some Pvp Players can correct me).

I second this. It's already there, but it's trash because Master Infiltrator. Whisperknife deserve some love.

Whisperknife can't be played by most players because they can't join DPS race. And everyone's mentality goes to paingiver scoreboard.

People doesn't seem to understand the role of TR and been playing it as though it is playing a GWF.

You are not the one to initiate fights, you can't do a speedrun, you can't stay in one place, you shouldn't pull aggro towards yourself (this is where most TRs are bad in general - they die when they do that and they'll be "Whisperknife is HAMSTER, go Master Infiltrator because ITC) and yet most TRs I met are doing this.

If you can't into assassins, then delete your TR. I hate it when TRs start to QQ GWF damage threads rather than lurking in the shadows.

micky1p00 · October 2016

Please....

PvE TR spec into MI not because of ITC, most don't even touch it in PvE. The MI spec is better because of invisible infiltrator.

lordseth1985 · October 2016

All I want it's a real fix with Shadow of Demise. It's not only buged, but also doesn't work as intended. Very few power procs it, and even that sometimes it procs not on the desired target.

Unknown · October 2016

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Unknown · October 2016

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falkon84 · October 2016

some ideas:

- increase base weapons damage
- decrease cooldown
- add side effects on skill (e.g.: a poison on LB, self buff on Deft strike, bleeding on PoB, increase deviation on SB, ecc..

- Master infiltrator/Whisperknife:
WK should be for distance fighting...but a throwing knives TR is less useful than a green pet

no damage, weak debuff, medium survability but running around mobs without doing anithing has no sense.
So, make MI specialized on pve, while Whisper focused on pvp. For example:
MI: add damage buff and debuff skill, crit chance, another decent aoe skill (maybe with instant damage, unlike SB)
WK: add deviation, stealth, single target controll/high-damage skills, piercing damage

- Feat paths
Specialize the paths:
Saboteur: pvp path ! So, offer survability (deviation, deflect, weak heals), stealth regeneration, armor penetration, percing damage, ecc... One with shadows add something like one-shot buff (like shadowborn).
Scoundrel: specialized in strong debuff , control and weak party buff. For capstone: add stun with stealth damage (with cooldown) and poison (half damage dealth, +50% damage incoming) enemies immune to controll
Executioner: simply should have the highest single target damage in the game: increase damage output, add dot effects, maybe some weak debuff and decent/weak aoe damage; on bosses should do more or same damage than SW and GWF, not one half or less. Remove SoD from capstone and put in on a (MI) skill; instead of SoD, increase (single target) damage for xx%, offer CA (or some bonus to CA) every tot secs, put a dot or debuff at every stealthed skill.

demonmonger · October 2016

Lower the activation time for gloaming strike or increase range. As is now enemies an just walk away before we hit them.

The increased mobility/survivability of classes is why many tr go for the one shot approach.

lordseth1985 · October 2016

There's something that always bothered me: why on earth TR's don't have a feat/skill that increases critical severity and/or focus on buff party or increase effectiveness of Combat Advantage? before the "rework" aka nerf we had feats like Critical Teamwork [You and your nearby allies gain a 1/2/3/4/5% chance to crit], Deadly Momentum [Duelist’s Flurry has a 5/10/15/20/25% chance to apply ‘Deadly Momentum’ Deadly Momentum; Increases your critical severity by 5% per stack] and Underhanded Tactics [Increase the effectiveness of Combat Advantage for you by 4/8/12/16/20%]... now, we don't have much options, and the ones we have aren't good enough. Unless we spent a lot of AD on Trans Vorpal, R12 bonding stones and other stuff, we can't do the job we are supposed to do: debuff and do a lot of damage, even to single targets like bosses. Focusing on combat advantage and deflect it's ridiculous since we don't have feats good enough to make them usefull. Even boons don't helps us on this task.

It would be nice if we could have a real rework on the class.

silver11 · October 2016

trs only encounter to survive is itc why would it be removed? other classes heal themselves, abilities to literally take zero damage, and are resistant to control effects. its funny. trs need more dmg on encounters, and overall damage increase. we have to rely on duelist flurry to do anykind of noticeable damage. sod isnt half of what it used to be, it usually gets applied to the weakest enemy. shocking executioner is the only thing useful for a tr in pvp beside smokebomb. if se is taken away, trs are useless. everyone will go back to permastealth node holders = boring. think before suggesting changes.

Unknown · October 2016

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demonmonger · October 2016

Whisper knives at will disheartening strike should supreme all lifesteal and all regeneration as a debuff for as long as it is ticking, then an additional 10 seconds b

ravenskya · October 2016

WK need love... I'm fine if you want to leave MI as a PVP monster because I don't PVP. There really doesn't seem to be any play difference in the path. One should be more distance (throwing daggers) one should be up close and the third should be more of a debuffer. But there are no good distance attacks. I have one distance attack that I use when due to AOE I just can't get close to an enemy. But right now you play MI and WK the same. Now I'm still on mod 9 but I don't recall there being any changes coming with Mod 10.

I would like:
- 2 truly different paths (even the HR can be DPS or Buff/Debuff) We are the only class who only has one option - DPS
- More base damage (since our only option is DPS, let us actually do DPS)
- A range based option
- A debuff/Buff based option
- Stealth that actually works - I swear in the higher level dungeons everything can see me in stealth. Example, Lostmauth's lazer eyes, if I can pop into stealth and roll he shouldn't still be locked on me. (Oh and yes I know I can dodge them, this was just an example)
- Substantial increase in damage if behind the enemy, positioning should be of the utmost importance to this class.

balufunke · October 2016

Concerning survivability: At least they should rework ITC if not removing, the effect of it lasts too short, pretty long cooldown, stealth is gone and it´s difficult to handle, meaning triggering it exactly at the right time, besides watching the end of the effect during fight. All in all I use it very rarely because dodging was more effective yet, but maybe that´s just my playstyle.

demonmonger · October 2016

Deft strike: I for one like being able to teleport to allies in steath... it allows me to save someone's boots and save my own!

I would like to see it do a small area like some whisper knife skills do.

Deft strike is totally a utility skill as is and not really suited for combat.

If it was up to e I would add the following to deft strike.

1. Teleport behind your enemy
2. Immunity to cc for 3 seconds after Teleport

Stealth deft
1. Teleport to allies
2. Adds slow effect on enemies
3. Leaves a bait and switch decoy when cast

That's plus boost the damage a little more.

silver11 · October 2016

itc is good when youre in a rotation of duelist flurry and the boss is going to hit you, pop it and you dont be hurt while still getting the df bleeds. if you increased its duration, pvp people would have a heart attack because this game seems to base everything off of pvp when it comes to changes instead of the 90% pve.

Unknown · October 2016

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trgluestickz · October 2016

I would like to make my voice heard on a very specific part of TR mechanics, I will likely comment on this thread again to weigh in on other good possible ways to change TRs but for tonight, I want to address the scoundrel feat tree:

I personally would love to see the scoundrel tree get some love. While Scoundrel is currently enjoying a window of viability in both PVP and PVE right now, it is still rarely played, slightly behind the other 2 trees, and needs to be caught up. Saboteur is still the most common type of TR I see in PVP and most are running roughly the same build/powers with only minor tweaks showcasing the lack of diversity rogues have access to right now.

In PVE, executioners are the most common but the gap in how effective they are vs Saboteurs is significantly smaller in PVE than it is in PVP. Scoundrel has some uses in PVE but is more of a fast running melee controller and can't dps as well in PVE as the other 2 trees. They clear mobs fast and their cc's are helpful to the rest of your team but their dps against bosses is very lacking. Much of a Scoundrel's dps is dependent on the target being cc'ed meaning the only time a scoundrel can get most of its damage off on a boss is when they use courage breaker.

These are my suggestions on what can be done to improve the Scoundrel tree. I am not very well versed in Whisperknife feats so I will be explaining this from an MI perspective:

Overall, the scoundrel has very good damage buffs but unlike the other 2 feat trees, provides 0 piecing damage and 0 additional stealth. The low stealth is not too much of a crutch as scoundrels are not really intended to rely on it and it is already possible to make a scoundrel fairly stealthy without the help of feats. The lack of piecing damage on the other hand is a much more noticeable issue. The scoundrel dps bonuses are already high but most of that damage does not make it through a player's defenses and the control dependence of their damage as mentioned above makes this class a harder sell in PVE. A lot of this build's problems could be amended by introducing a small amount of piercing damage to a feat or 2 on this tree. Scoundrels should get a lot less piercing damage than the other 2 trees however as they already have strong straight damage buffs; a little goes a long way and it would not take much piecing damage to bring this build out of the shadows a little more. Scoundrels also possess decent control but Scullcracker's mechanic is in desperate need of some improvement and concussive strikes is a little too watered down in PVP by itself to compensate for the problems with scullcracker. In PVE, scullcracker is completely useless against bosses and only of moderate help on mobs. The speed bonus is probably the best thing scullcracker feat has to offer. Another suggestion of mine is doing something with critical strike or combat advantage as part of one of the scoundrel feats.

Bloody Brawler and Roll with the Punches: These feats are decent the way they are but it wouldn't be a bad idea to increase it up from 2.5% deflection chance to 3% as a small improvement.

Press the advantage: Is a good feat as well and its not essential to buff this one though I'm open to suggestions.

Survivor: This feat used to be really good but it is now outdated and not worth taking. With the amount of self healing and other tankyness in the game right now, this feat is redundant and would rarely if ever come in handy. This feat could probably be reworked to make it decent but it might be better to replace it entirely with a completely new better feat. Another idea could be to place the similar but much more useful feat mocking gesture or a reworked version of mocking gesture into the spot survivor currently occupies and then making a new feat to put into the spot mocking gesture used to go. Though admittedly, mocking gesture is slightly out of place as a scoundrel feat and looks like something a saboteur should have.

Back Ally tactics: This is a really nice feat. 25% more damage that slowly diminishes as you gain action points is pretty sweet as you always have some amount of damage increase. Honestly this feat doesn't need anything. It does have one drawback I should mention, for builds with extremely high recovery/AP gain, this feat may not be as useful.

Master Infighter: This feat is really good and is a solid choice for PVP builds and TRs with less gear to help their survival rate. A well geared PVE rogue does not really need this feat and would likely be better off with a dps feat from another tree or the sabotuer's 2 cooldown feats.

Concussive Strikes: This feat has a really nice mechanic but is a little bit too weak in PVP. A small increase in the duration of this feat's daze would be a very effective way to improve this tree but should not be increased by too much as it could become overpowered very quickly if increased too far. 1.8 secs or 2 secs instead of 1.2 secs in PVP would probably be enough to give it that extra little bit it needs. No more than that especially if scullcracker gets buffed/reworked. No change needed to this feat for PVE.

Savage Blows: This is also a good feat and this feat really doesn't need anything. It effectively grants 5% more lifesteal when you are attacking and works very similarly to the rising rings from the underdark campaign.

Low blows: This feat is of critical importance to scoundrels as it is where a lot of their damage comes from. This feat is very good the way it is, no change needed.

Mocking gesture: this feat is an actually useful version of survivor basically. It is the only stealth dependent feat in the scoundrel tree and gives you 10% more deflect for 10 seconds after entering stealth. It is as I mentioned above, slightly out of place but still useful. It is more useful for PVP scoundrels who build themselves to be more stealthy than for a straight face tank but as long as you can enter stealth once every 10 secs, this is a good feat. This feat offers a nice alternative for those who want more tankyness but don't want to take savage blows. Its an ok feat for PVE as well but likely to get passed up in favor of dps or cooldown feats.

Scullcracker: This feat needs a rework bad. Its nowhere near as good as the capstone feats the other 2 trees get and doesn't work very good with current TR builds. It requires encounter powers to even proc the daze it offers but given that smokebomb is also a daze that nearly everyone uses, and itc never leaves the bar of most TRs, that leaves only 1 out of 3 encounter powers where scullcracker's daze doesn't just redundantly overlap with another daze. Scullcracker is even more useless if your 3rd choice is dazing strike or shadowstrike. The additional daze gets wasted most of the time and it happens only once every 15 seconds. Its too much effort for too little gain to try to time your rotation so that your 1 nondazing encounter power will be off cooldown in time to proc scullcracker. The damage bonus thankfully does work and is decent in PVE. The damage buff in PVP does not last long enough since you will only have the 25% damage buff for a maximum of 3 seconds(this feat is half effective against players). The best I could get out of the daze feature in PVP was when I slotted deft strike as my 3rd encounter power and did the following rotation as fast as possible: deft strike > ITC > smokebomb > stealth > shocking execution. This was a very unreliable rotation but if done fast enough, it would land a 80k through 95k shocking execution. Even a second off, and that SE is now 50k through 70k. The only really great thing I can say for the scoundrel capstone is that it grants 15% movement speed. There is a catch however to this too. The scullcracker icon when it is ready to proc just hangs out on your character icon until you use an encounter power. As long as that icon is currently up, you get the 15% movement speed making it useful for running through dungeons and capping points in pvp but most of the time, you will not have that speed bonus when you need it the most, in combat.

I am not entirely sure of the exact fix I would suggest for the daze on scullcracker as there are a lot of options. One way to start is to make it so scullcracker procs upon attacking with any power and not just with encounter powers though a full rework may turn out better. Making the speed bonus a flat speed increase instead of making it dependent on the scullcracker icon being up would also improve this feat a lot. Maybe switching the daze out for a prone would be a good idea.

trgluestickz · October 2016

morenthar said:
TRs need an across the board damage increase.

ITC needs to be removed and replaced.

Dodges should significantly increase combat advantage damage. (Right place right time attacks)

First Strike needs to be removed and replaced.

SE needs to respect 50% HP threshold.

Hateful Knives needs an immunity window.

Vengeance's Pursuit multi-proc needs to be fixed. Prone needs to be added to the teleport. Allow it to target through allies.

Disheartening Strike damage needs an increase, especially against players.

There's more...just too lazy now.

I completely agree that TRs really need their damage across the board increased, especially at will damage. TRs's damage is too watered down in general in PVP right now especially in competitive PVP. Most TRs in premade vs premade situations play as cc support right now only being able to score a rare kill every now and then with SE; often we need assistance to even do that. We do more killing in less balanced fights but most of that killing is done with SE and we are dramatically outperformed by other classes such as HR, GF, and CW. We are supposed to be a primarily at will damage based class but our actual at wills are not putting out enough damage to make much of a dent in well geared players. For PVP, TRs are almost completely dependent on our dailies, no matter what tree we play, no matter what our preferred playstyle actually is. Almost invariably, the dailies of choice for PVP are CB and SE. Encounter-wise, Smokebomb and itc never leave the bar of most TRs; and the third choice is usually Shadow strike, deft strike, or dazing strike. Almost all of us are MIs and WK should be buffed to make it more competitive with the MI path. Our utility and cc for encounter powers is one of the only things that's actually working well though variety is still an issue. Choosing a different playstyle and build than the majority shouldn't have to be a con.

ITC should not be removed and should probably be left the way it is. Its a strong feature but its not gamebreaking. It would work a lot better to simply buff and rework other TR powers that are not as commonly used and make those competitive with ITC than to completely take out one of MI's strongest features. I want to see WK be just as viable as MI too but it makes at lot more sense to simply buff/rework WK than to drag down MI to WK's current status.

You raise an interesting point about SE, it does need a nerf of some kind. A nerf to first strike also would be welcome considering the new weapons that are coming out are likely to make SE heaps stronger even than it is now and SE is a little too strong already. SE should still hit like a truck and be able take out at least half a health gage or a little more. But as it stands right now, it can one shot most players. If we are to be adequately buffed in other areas, this ability should be toned down a notch.

Your combat advantage from dodges idea is an interesting one to consider and I would take it a step further. In general, I think TRs should have more things that work off of combat advantage. It should be the 4th strongest source of our damage behind power, piecing damage, and raw damage buffs. Even in PVE, combat advantage should be more important on TRs than critical strike/critical severity and some other damage classes like the GWF should probably have the reverse be true.

I have no input to offer on your Whisperknife power suggestions since I am not terribly familiar with Whisperknife powers.

trgluestickz · October 2016

falkon84 said:
some ideas:

- increase base weapons damage
- decrease cooldown
- add side effects on skill (e.g.: a poison on LB, self buff on Deft strike, bleeding on PoB, increase deviation on SB, ecc..

- Master infiltrator/Whisperknife:
WK should be for distance fighting...but a throwing knives TR is less useful than a green pet no damage, weak debuff, medium survability but running around mobs without doing anithing has no sense.
So, make MI specialized on pve, while Whisper focused on pvp. For example:
MI: add damage buff and debuff skill, crit chance, another decent aoe skill (maybe with instant damage, unlike SB)
WK: add deviation, stealth, single target controll/high-damage skills, piercing damage

- Feat paths
Specialize the paths:
Saboteur: pvp path ! So, offer survability (deviation, deflect, weak heals), stealth regeneration, armor penetration, percing damage, ecc... One with shadows add something like one-shot buff (like shadowborn).
Scoundrel: specialized in strong debuff , control and weak party buff. For capstone: add stun with stealth damage (with cooldown) and poison (half damage dealth, +50% damage incoming) enemies immune to controll
Executioner: simply should have the highest single target damage in the game: increase damage output, add dot effects, maybe some weak debuff and decent/weak aoe damage; on bosses should do more or same damage than SW and GWF, not one half or less. Remove SoD from capstone and put in on a (MI) skill; instead of SoD, increase (single target) damage for xx%, offer CA (or some bonus to CA) every tot secs, put a dot or debuff at every stealthed skill.

+1 agree with you on the increasing base damage
+1 agree with you on decreasing cooldowns though this should not be done to all powers we have.

I however vehemently disagree with your approach on the paragon paths and most of what you said about the trees. You say to make WK the PVP TR path and MI the PVE TR path but this will only further decrease build variety. The paragon paths are not intended to designate you as pve or pvp nor should they. No other class has their paragon paths predesignated for a specific game play type like this so why should TRs? WK and MI are ways to specialize into 2 completely different play styles and should be made viable in both settings. WKs were aimed at people who want a TR that is more of a mid ranged character that fights aggressively and MIs were aimed at people who preferred being mostly melee and having more utility. All a change like that would do is make it harder to build a melee TR in PVP and make it harder to build a mid ranged one in PVE. Same goes for the 3 trees, these trees should be viable in both pvp and pve as they are ways to further specialize in a specific playstyle. Though given the nature of the way the trees are set up, some unbalance is still likely to occur.

Your attempts to describe the trees I also find a little off, your description of scoundrel makes it sound like you want it to be more like the saboteur/sneaky trickster type rogue but we already have a tree for that. Scoundrel is more of a bold roguish tavern brawler and the stealth and poison damage is very out of place. The poison would make more sense in the executioner and sabo trees and scoundrels are supposed to have the lowest stealth out of all 3 trees, otherwise, they would be too strong. Your ideas/description of executioner however are good and dots on the executioner tree would be a nice improvement that fits the theme. Your suggestion of a one shot oriented buff in the saboteur tree is slightly out of place as well. Saboteurs were designed to be a mix of utility and decent consistent damage that goes through armor. Thanks to shocking execution, any TR can one shot but they would not be able to do that normally. If any TR should be able to one shot kill, it should probably be executioner.

trgluestickz · October 2016

demonmonger said:
Deft strike: I for one like being able to teleport to allies in steath... it allows me to save someone's boots and save my own!

I would like to see it do a small area like some whisper knife skills do.

Deft strike is totally a utility skill as is and not really suited for combat.

If it was up to e I would add the following to deft strike.

1. Teleport behind your enemy

2. Immunity to cc for 3 seconds after Teleport

Stealth deft

1. Teleport to allies

2. Adds slow effect on enemies

3. Leaves a bait and switch decoy when cast

That's plus boost the damage a little more.

The immunity to cc for 3 seconds would be very useful but it could turn out to be a little much considering we already have itc and could also start using bloodbath more often if SE gets nerfed. It would however provide Whisperknives with a cc immunity besides bloodbath so I don't see it getting out of hand on them.

The teleport to allies I find to rarely come in handy. What few situational pros this feature has are outweighed by the cons in my opinion. Most of the time this feature just messes me up. I have messed up many rotations or attempts to pursue people in PVP when an ally drifts in front of my screen at the last moment. I try not to be in stealth when I use it but often things don't go my way if someone runs out of range while I still have some stealth left.

The adding a decoy to it is an awesome idea. I would suggest adding a feature to this power that gives combat advantage damage for X amount of time after teleporting to the target both in and out of stealth. I would also suggest adding a feature to the decoy where you gain an increase to combat advantage damage for x amount of time if anyone hits or kills the decoy. The slow should be changed to only apply out of stealth and not in stealth if this is done.

trgluestickz · October 2016

"The adding a decoy to it is an awesome idea. I would suggest adding a feature to this power that gives combat advantage damage for X amount of time after teleporting to the target both in and out of stealth. I would also suggest adding a feature to the decoy where you gain an increase to combat advantage damage for x amount of time if anyone hits or kills the decoy."

Whoops, Mild typo on this, meant to say that teleporting to the target should give combat advantage for x seconds, not combat advantage damage. Killing/damaging the dummy is what I meant to say combat advantage damage for.

demonmonger · October 2016

Unknown · October 2016

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shrewguy · October 2016

Honestly, there are far to many issues with TRs right now.. I'll admit I PvP more than I PvE but they are in need of some changes in both.

Firstly, our At-wills are actually great, they all get used and all have situations where they excell. That's one thing that doesn't need changing.

Dailys however, need some adjustments.

Shocking Execution has become a real issue in PvP, especially when combined with first strike. Now most classes can still dodge it when they hear the audio cue, but others (like GWFs) are completely defenseless. It needs to be reverted back to an actual execute ability, so it does low damage against full HP targets and high damage to low HP targets. This will stop it from 1 hit killing in PvP while still letting it finish off durable targets.

Courage Breaker is running a bit rampant in PvP too, personally I love that daily, but maybe it is a bit too good now that people can get their dailys back up again before the debuff has even ran out. I'm not sure what to suggest.

Blood Bath, seems too weak now, in both PvP and PvE, again, don't know what to suggest.

Lurkers assault, I feel this needs buffing, Its more of a PvE daily and that's where TRs need the help, a good buff here could help them compete with GWFs for the DPS roll.

Encounters also have a few issues, with basically every TR using the same powers. When was the last time you seen a TR who wasn't using smoke bomb?

It would be a good idea to look at abilities and decide if the are designed for PvP, or PvE and then adjust them accordingly.

Unknown · October 2016

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Unknown · October 2016

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shrewguy · October 2016

I am not saying GWFs are too weak, or are too strong. This is not about GWFs, they have their own issues which can be addressed in their own forums. The point is, Shocking Execution is our of check, and is currently being used in PvP as a one hit kill build (combined with first strike etc.) while useless in PvE. And that is not how it should be, especially when the core mechanics for some classes leave them completely defenseless to it.

On a side note, if your really having trouble with GWFs in PvP, try using courage breaker + smoke bomb, I'm only 3.3k item level and I can hold my own against 4.2k GWFs in pvp, I generally can't kill them 1v1 since they have much higher item level (which again is a separate issue, nothing to do with any specific class) but I can definitely ruin their day.

TR next rework/revamp feedbacks and ideas

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