Compensation. I earned that gear (in my case, ALL the pre mod 5 GF armor sets, including KC), and have used up bank/inventory space keeping it around since mod 5. And now it's being taken away. Compensate me for it, or remove something equivalent from *everybody else*. That's only "fair", right?
In a game that specifically monetizes inventory space, this was a non-trivial investment in resources, over and above the effort to originally obtain the items. I'd personally accept an account-bound 24 slot backpack as reasonable compensation, *per set nerfed*. And if anyone suggests "it'd be too much work" to figure out, I call schenanigans and/or ignorance; it'd be a pretty straight forward database query, likely one they already have.
Compensation. I earned that gear (in my case, ALL the pre mod 5 GF armor sets, including KC), and have used up bank/inventory space keeping it around since mod 5. And now it's being taken away. Compensate me for it, or remove something equivalent from *everybody else*. That's only "fair", right?
In a game that specifically monetizes inventory space, this was a non-trivial investment in resources, over and above the effort to originally obtain the items. I'd personally accept an account-bound 24 slot backpack as reasonable compensation, *per set nerfed*. And if anyone suggests "it'd be too much work" to figure out, I call schenanigans and/or ignorance; it'd be a pretty straight forward database query, likely one they already have.
What about those player , who invested into one million greater marks of potency before mod 6/7? (forgot), compensation? I own this HP set with my DC ( "earned" ) and I do not care about getting "nerfed", since I witnessed enough fast kills not to talk about illiabruen set, wich killed about 1 million dragons in our stronghold and trivializes current endgame dungeon. I only feel sorry for those player who bought these sets for a rediculess high ammount of AD. They won´t get compansation at all, but on the other hand they should have known the risk. I bought those Quartermaster enchants and leveled them till rank 9/10 .......2 weeks later they got nerfed and I was pissed. But I never thought about compensation. I keep them and use them apart from other useless stuff like dragon hoard enchants etc., virtual junk, but pretty expensive.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
There should be no compensation, its the same as any other mmo.
Ive worn my hp armor for 3.5 years .. I wont miss it, its just replacement HAMSTER gear is only stats with no foresight into anything else into the game.
There is no real gear sets anymore, just more stats, so at some point, you look at it and say.. scrwe it, dragon-flight is quite enough.. missing a few hundred stats, dont mean HAMSTER atm.
Let me put this in simple terms: I currently have things in the game (set bonuses on gear) that are being REMOVED, but will be receiving no compensation for the loss. Other people who did not obtain AND retain those items are losing nothing. This is not equitable, even conceding the "broken" bonuses "need" to be removed.
As a thought experiment; if they wanted to remove ALL armor set bonuses from the game, then it would be "fair", as it would impact everybody with armor set effects equally, instead of only a select subset of players. It would also be stupid. Nobody wants that. It would be like removing SCA from the game, and making all those companion "dice" useless... o wait. The DID do that, didn't they? From everybody. Sucky but fair.
So anyway, I think that compensation for the bonus removal is more than warranted. I've used up a few dozen inventory slots to keep those sets I'd earned, and now they are being reduced to something less than cosmetic items. It's essentially a taking (check your law dictionary- obviously a ridiculous comparison in scope, but exactly the same concept).
Note, all this is obviously MY opinion, feel free to have your own. But as it's MY stuff that's getting screwed with, apologies if I point out that *your* opinion about what happens to *my* stuff doesn't necessarily hold a lot of weight, unless you agree, or do a REALLY good job convincing me otherwise.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I just hate, that new BIS is so unreasonable maintenance wise, that I wont bother to get it and now I will have to farm 'old' BIS gear, to keep my chars contribution up to date and wait for a new set to come along.
I would have preferred, if they would have implemented a new (reasonable no grind) sets with the nerf, so I could have switched in one move.
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2016
10 seconds and if is enough time to land ( maybe boss is dead before token debuff land) with cooldown 60 seconds make it serious issue? Or THE party will waste time waiting the token to land?:p COMpare this to old stuff for example? faster you apply high vizier and you keep it up all the time. with just att wills you refresh high prophet. AND buffs-debuffs stay longer than a token!
There is precedent in compensating for gear changes with the lolset. The exchange vendor is still there offering replacements of the same color for other set gear.
That said, a set for set replacement [to dragonflight or VB empowered sets] doesn't make as much sense in this case. Maybe an item that offers a choice of: [bag, mount, companion, RP, marks, artifact]? Something similar to how the glorious resurgence choice packs work?
As far as the set removal, I'm most confused by how long it takes them to make these decisions. OP bubble was in game for months. Lol set was in for over a year, legacy sets stopped dropping... what, 2 years ago?
We know there are other gear / power / whatever combinations that deliver performance gains way outside the power curve. Some may be bugs, but others are clearly working as intended. But these stay in the game for SO LONG that players become attached or, I'd even argue, dependant.
Yet other cases like the Orcus set had a near instant fix, so we know there's precedent for making changes when things are *that far* out of spec. But players begin to believe the devs WANT us to have these rare super powered abilities because they languish for so long. This is what drives the backlash.
I kept all the sets for a). the appearance and b). potentially useful-in-the-future effects/bonuses (and, to be fair, just a bit of c). OCD ). There's 8 or so sets of gear with 4-piece bonuses that are apparently going to be removed, that have used up inventory/bank space THAT I HAD TO PAY FOR. Now, some may enjoy the inventory management metagame, but I personally HATE it, but I suffered thru all this time to keep those items just in case I wanted to use them again. And now they are to be removed. Damn straight I want and expect to be compensated for the loss.
oooh, we finally got battlestar's swear word. saying "Hamster" is lame version of fracking, in Ohio, fracking mean oil well term, draw oil/gas and replace with dirty water or waste fluids. it was design to prevent empty pockets to collapse or quake-felt like tremors. many local dont like it, they claim it would contaminate natural "protection" layers.
I kept all the sets for a). the appearance and b). potentially useful-in-the-future effects/bonuses (and, to be fair, just a bit of c). OCD ). There's 8 or so sets of gear with 4-piece bonuses that are apparently going to be removed, that have used up inventory/bank space THAT I HAD TO PAY FOR. Now, some may enjoy the inventory management metagame, but I personally HATE it, but I suffered thru all this time to keep those items just in case I wanted to use them again. And now they are to be removed. Damn straight I want and expect to be compensated for the loss.
So basically you want a compensation because you don't like inventory micromanagement. I don't know what is the funnier, if you're serious or not.
The removal of the old sets is a token effort targeted on a small group of long time players, who have invested much time and sometimes money into the game.
They claim, that their data shows, that a small group using these sets is much faster, then most other groups. Here is the kicker. This small group is BIS or near BIS with a perfect buff/ debuff combo. BC they run the best buff/debuff combo they use the old sets. They are faster, bc they are better. Better geared, better speced, more experienced and a shitload of companions, mounts, mount boons, SH boons and insignia boni most other ppl dont have.
I know some of these guys. They respeced just for this dungeon. They are min maxing their chars and their gear, companions and their group. They are faster then the rest, not bc of the sets, but bc of their group.
My BUFF HV CW is paingiver in 9/10 PUG runs, not bc of the HV set, but bc of the flail snail, SH boons R 10, R12s, t.dread enchant, leg. and epic companions and insignia boni boosting my stats. Take away the HV set and I will deal more dmg compared to other players, but debuff less.
A PuG FBI group needs 45-60 minutes for a run, if they finish. They finish it in 15-20 minutes. They remove 45% dmg buff from ca. 500% or 600%. Do the math. The old sets were the icing on the cake, not the cake.
If they continue on this path they wont make this game more balanced, but unplayable for 90% of the community. Most groups struggle as it is in FBI. If they just nerf the buffs/ debuffs etc. they wont stand a chance.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited October 2016
Not really the same as mod 6 no.
My biggest question is the timing, we all complained about the level of grind during this mod 10, so they remove old sets, with the ethos , that it somehow provides such a big advantage or some other nonsense.
My second issue, is that after 3 years, there is no new set that would give me some better balance ? mod 5 sets for DC were great forNON BIS type DCs like myself, I provided some additional debuff without having to spend millions and millions on expensive enchants to make up the difference in power pooling. Sure there were some dcs that had both, which provided some additional debuffing ability, Some of this will be made up with the additonal power of me swapping sets I guess, but overall, just kind of tad ridiculous. I pretty much kept my dc the same since like mod 6 lol.. It actually got weaker over time as I ripped azures away from it (it was a crit build for healing at the start of mod 6, (70% crit, with vorp and was faithful) My DC was pretty good for mod 6, I loved mod 6 in fact, with my gift of haste + faithful capstone, I could get alot of groups through the t2s with 100k heals and provide battery recharge as well) Since they ripped all of those features away from the game (arp bug, reduced damage, gift of haste) I switched to righteous, as power creep continued, not that I wanted to, in fact I DONT want to just be a debuffer, but this game allows for nothing else. Ive only been a healer for like 3 mods out of ten.. its pretty sad actually. The rework on my DC has been time consuming and rather expensive already and I wont be anywhere near BIS with it, I will hit somewhere in the 3.5k i level when done, with a rather large difference between me and top end dcs though. Oh well, I do what I can with what I have.
However, HP wasnt the best of these sets, after it was revealed about the double whack it gets (same as terror and plague) , I wore it because it still debuffed and that was my job.
I just hate mod 10 and I find the timing of this funny, if they did this at mod 6, I would understand or 7,8, 9 or whatever.. but doing it now smells really fishy.. like mod 11 fishy.
Am I overly surprised about the nerf.. naw, not at all. Am I STILL the heck frustrated with mod 10.. yes.. Yes i am.
Post Script.. I would like to add, going back to start of mod 6, I felt there was actually a difference on playing a DC and just being a Geared DC (there is little difference now) the timing and knowledge of keeping parties up, just didnt take gear, it took some knowledge and timing, I really miss this, I get so close to quiting half the time, because this game is only a arms race now.
I wish the game would better balance its power curve, removal of the sets wont do that, it just wont. I proposed linear rework of the enchants, that I believe would really help, and it wouldnt be a nerf, it would be upgrade to all non BIS to shorten the power gap. Solutions like this , is what the game needs.
I dont know, just feeling super frustated at this time with the game, the one decent dungeon in forever is gated behind stupid HAMSTER, that I mostly refuse to do. I just wish the would relent on this gating HAMSTER.
I kept all the sets for a). the appearance and b). potentially useful-in-the-future effects/bonuses (and, to be fair, just a bit of c). OCD ). There's 8 or so sets of gear with 4-piece bonuses that are apparently going to be removed, that have used up inventory/bank space THAT I HAD TO PAY FOR. Now, some may enjoy the inventory management metagame, but I personally HATE it, but I suffered thru all this time to keep those items just in case I wanted to use them again. And now they are to be removed. Damn straight I want and expect to be compensated for the loss.
So basically you want a compensation because you don't like inventory micromanagement. I don't know what is the funnier, if you're serious or not.
No, I want compensation because I had to PURCHASE all that inventory space, and forgo holding OTHER items in those slots so I could keep said gear. Having to play pack rat games to juggle things around was just extra, annoying, overhead.
Once again, they have specifically monetized inventory space, and deliberately pushed constraints (bind on equip bags) and stresses (the huge number of separately stackable versions of the same items) on it. So the situation is that I made an investment in keeping that gear that is now going to be negated by a heavy-handed yet still narrowly targeted nerf, poorly justified by a simple "it's easy for us, and therefore better for the game".
By the way, did you not see my earlier post with the statement about how someone else's opinion on what was being done to MY stuff wasn't all that interesting, unless you agreed with me or made a really good argument? You didn't make a very good argument.
Yeah you won't get any compensation, they only do that if they really screw up. They intended for players to stop using the old sets about 5 mods back as they thought everyone would go for the new sets. Most people did and new players never had access to it (not from earning it anyway).
Their mistake was not nerfing the sets earlier but if you think that using 4 spaces in your inventory (which is already compensated for by having the set bonus for an extra year - or you wouldn't have kept it) is worthy of freebies then this sounds more like sulking to me.
The nerf was inevitable from way back, move along.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Reading, it's fundamental. I'm not talking just about ONE specific set (for GF, knight captain); I've got 7 or 8 DIFFERENT sets, all with set bonuses, all that are (apparently) going to be removed. If they were ONLY removing (or changing) the KC set, I'd be a bit miffed, but not terribly put out. They aren't. Instead, they are going to remove them ALL. To add insult to injury, without the set bonuses (which I might or might not ever use), they won't even be as good as the new "skin" kits for appearance changes, since they have large AD costs on them the "new" faux sets don't. So again, we are talking about 2+ DOZEN inventory slots, not 4, and multiple sets, not one. I paid time/AD to collect the sets, AND I paid real $$$ for the bank/inventory space to keep them in.
Oh, and your point about "already compensated by having the set bonus for an extra year" is absurd; you really consider them letting me continue to have something I collected "compensation"? To shorten the quote, "I do not think it means what you think it means".
Comments
In a game that specifically monetizes inventory space, this was a non-trivial investment in resources, over and above the effort to originally obtain the items. I'd personally accept an account-bound 24 slot backpack as reasonable compensation, *per set nerfed*. And if anyone suggests "it'd be too much work" to figure out, I call schenanigans and/or ignorance; it'd be a pretty straight forward database query, likely one they already have.
I own this HP set with my DC ( "earned" ) and I do not care about getting "nerfed", since I witnessed enough fast kills not to talk about illiabruen set, wich killed about 1 million dragons in our stronghold and trivializes current endgame dungeon.
I only feel sorry for those player who bought these sets for a rediculess high ammount of AD. They won´t get compansation at all, but on the other hand they should have known the risk.
I bought those Quartermaster enchants and leveled them till rank 9/10 .......2 weeks later they got nerfed and I was pissed. But I never thought about compensation. I keep them and use them apart from other useless stuff like dragon hoard enchants etc., virtual junk, but pretty expensive.
Ive worn my hp armor for 3.5 years .. I wont miss it, its just replacement HAMSTER gear is only stats with no foresight into anything else into the game.
There is no real gear sets anymore, just more stats, so at some point, you look at it and say.. scrwe it, dragon-flight is quite enough.. missing a few hundred stats, dont mean HAMSTER atm.
As a thought experiment; if they wanted to remove ALL armor set bonuses from the game, then it would be "fair", as it would impact everybody with armor set effects equally, instead of only a select subset of players. It would also be stupid. Nobody wants that. It would be like removing SCA from the game, and making all those companion "dice" useless... o wait. The DID do that, didn't they? From everybody. Sucky but fair.
So anyway, I think that compensation for the bonus removal is more than warranted. I've used up a few dozen inventory slots to keep those sets I'd earned, and now they are being reduced to something less than cosmetic items. It's essentially a taking (check your law dictionary- obviously a ridiculous comparison in scope, but exactly the same concept).
Note, all this is obviously MY opinion, feel free to have your own. But as it's MY stuff that's getting screwed with, apologies if I point out that *your* opinion about what happens to *my* stuff doesn't necessarily hold a lot of weight, unless you agree, or do a REALLY good job convincing me otherwise.
I would have preferred, if they would have implemented a new (reasonable no grind) sets with the nerf, so I could have switched in one move.
Kind of like "frack".
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
with just att wills you refresh high prophet. AND buffs-debuffs stay longer than a token!
That said, a set for set replacement [to dragonflight or VB empowered sets] doesn't make as much sense in this case. Maybe an item that offers a choice of: [bag, mount, companion, RP, marks, artifact]? Something similar to how the glorious resurgence choice packs work?
As far as the set removal, I'm most confused by how long it takes them to make these decisions. OP bubble was in game for months. Lol set was in for over a year, legacy sets stopped dropping... what, 2 years ago?
We know there are other gear / power / whatever combinations that deliver performance gains way outside the power curve. Some may be bugs, but others are clearly working as intended. But these stay in the game for SO LONG that players become attached or, I'd even argue, dependant.
Yet other cases like the Orcus set had a near instant fix, so we know there's precedent for making changes when things are *that far* out of spec. But players begin to believe the devs WANT us to have these rare super powered abilities because they languish for so long. This is what drives the backlash.
They claim, that their data shows, that a small group using these sets is much faster, then most other groups. Here is the kicker. This small group is BIS or near BIS with a perfect buff/ debuff combo. BC they run the best buff/debuff combo they use the old sets. They are faster, bc they are better. Better geared, better speced, more experienced and a shitload of companions, mounts, mount boons, SH boons and insignia boni most other ppl dont have.
I know some of these guys. They respeced just for this dungeon. They are min maxing their chars and their gear, companions and their group. They are faster then the rest, not bc of the sets, but bc of their group.
My BUFF HV CW is paingiver in 9/10 PUG runs, not bc of the HV set, but bc of the flail snail, SH boons R 10, R12s, t.dread enchant, leg. and epic companions and insignia boni boosting my stats. Take away the HV set and I will deal more dmg compared to other players, but debuff less.
A PuG FBI group needs 45-60 minutes for a run, if they finish. They finish it in 15-20 minutes. They remove 45% dmg buff from ca. 500% or 600%. Do the math. The old sets were the icing on the cake, not the cake.
If they continue on this path they wont make this game more balanced, but unplayable for 90% of the community. Most groups struggle as it is in FBI. If they just nerf the buffs/ debuffs etc. they wont stand a chance.
My biggest question is the timing, we all complained about the level of grind during this mod 10, so they remove old sets, with the ethos , that it somehow provides such a big advantage or some other nonsense.
My second issue, is that after 3 years, there is no new set that would give me some better balance ? mod 5 sets for DC were great forNON BIS type DCs like myself, I provided some additional debuff without having to spend millions and millions on expensive enchants to make up the difference in power pooling. Sure there were some dcs that had both, which provided some additional debuffing ability, Some of this will be made up with the additonal power of me swapping sets I guess, but overall, just kind of tad ridiculous. I pretty much kept my dc the same since like mod 6 lol.. It actually got weaker over time as I ripped azures away from it (it was a crit build for healing at the start of mod 6, (70% crit, with vorp and was faithful) My DC was pretty good for mod 6, I loved mod 6 in fact, with my gift of haste + faithful capstone, I could get alot of groups through the t2s with 100k heals and provide battery recharge as well) Since they ripped all of those features away from the game (arp bug, reduced damage, gift of haste) I switched to righteous, as power creep continued, not that I wanted to, in fact I DONT want to just be a debuffer, but this game allows for nothing else. Ive only been a healer for like 3 mods out of ten.. its pretty sad actually. The rework on my DC has been time consuming and rather expensive already and I wont be anywhere near BIS with it, I will hit somewhere in the 3.5k i level when done, with a rather large difference between me and top end dcs though. Oh well, I do what I can with what I have.
However, HP wasnt the best of these sets, after it was revealed about the double whack it gets (same as terror and plague) , I wore it because it still debuffed and that was my job.
I just hate mod 10 and I find the timing of this funny, if they did this at mod 6, I would understand or 7,8, 9 or whatever.. but doing it now smells really fishy.. like mod 11 fishy.
Am I overly surprised about the nerf.. naw, not at all. Am I STILL the heck frustrated with mod 10.. yes.. Yes i am.
Post Script.. I would like to add, going back to start of mod 6, I felt there was actually a difference on playing a DC and just being a Geared DC (there is little difference now) the timing and knowledge of keeping parties up, just didnt take gear, it took some knowledge and timing, I really miss this, I get so close to quiting half the time, because this game is only a arms race now.
I wish the game would better balance its power curve, removal of the sets wont do that, it just wont. I proposed linear rework of the enchants, that I believe would really help, and it wouldnt be a nerf, it would be upgrade to all non BIS to shorten the power gap. Solutions like this , is what the game needs.
I dont know, just feeling super frustated at this time with the game, the one decent dungeon in forever is gated behind stupid HAMSTER, that I mostly refuse to do. I just wish the would relent on this gating HAMSTER.
Once again, they have specifically monetized inventory space, and deliberately pushed constraints (bind on equip bags) and stresses (the huge number of separately stackable versions of the same items) on it. So the situation is that I made an investment in keeping that gear that is now going to be negated by a heavy-handed yet still narrowly targeted nerf, poorly justified by a simple "it's easy for us, and therefore better for the game".
By the way, did you not see my earlier post with the statement about how someone else's opinion on what was being done to MY stuff wasn't all that interesting, unless you agreed with me or made a really good argument? You didn't make a very good argument.
Their mistake was not nerfing the sets earlier but if you think that using 4 spaces in your inventory (which is already compensated for by having the set bonus for an extra year - or you wouldn't have kept it) is worthy of freebies then this sounds more like sulking to me.
The nerf was inevitable from way back, move along.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Oh, and your point about "already compensated by having the set bonus for an extra year" is absurd; you really consider them letting me continue to have something I collected "compensation"? To shorten the quote, "I do not think it means what you think it means".