Nor is running the quests that are used to level and get through the content (i.e. the yellow text quests).
Running the yellow text quests is just as much playing as doing the dungeons and such is, just because you don't like doing them doesn't mean that people that do run them are not playing.
In my mind though your reward for playing is the ability to level or access new content. It is not that I don't like doing the quests, I just think that there is already reward enough for doing those quests. Your opinion and the opinion of the devs may vary.
You could argue that doing the dailies allows you to advance through the various campaigns, but there comes a point when you have completed the campaigns and then (aside from grinding stuff for SH and the level up bonus) there is little reward for continuing to do the dailies.
Yeah this sounds like a great way to keep people playing the game. No wonder I always see posts about the player base dwindling...
Further slowing people's progression by making them run content they may not enjoy or not progressing at all is just bad business. There are other ways to combat 'bots'..
My 2cents. I don't mind eliminating ad from invocs. However the replacement system seems unnecessarily convoluted. Why not give each toon 300ish rad for the first ten "objective complete" messages achieved each day. Do a quest-300 rad. Complete a heroic encounter-300 rad. Run a dungeon/skirmish-300 rad.
You reward players for playing. You replace the invocation time gate with a playtime gate. Players can decide for themselves what content to use for their rad bonus and not feel funneled into the same limited options.
Because as has been made evident by various things including the salvage changes cryptic wants AD to come strictly from group activities like dungeons, skirmishes, trials, and HE's. As noted though the distribution on that needs some serious work.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
How about this? Put the astal diamonds back into the invocation gifts and make it so you can not invoke until after you finish your first mission of the day. That way we have to actually play the character before we can invoke with it. Also; if you want to take something out of yhe invocation rewards, get rid of the free experience. I know people that leveled a character from 20 to 60 just by invoking. That's rediculous.
Carrying this same idea a step further, instead of making it so they can only invoke after completing one mission, make it so they have to complete another mission before they can invoke again. That way the can't just do one mission, then just log back in to invoke for the rest of the day.
Or how about this?
A player can invoke after completing a mission BUT they can only invoke at one site - one time...
A person can invoke at that campfire only once - then they need to find another campfire to invoke at each subsequent time.
That seems simple enough to me.
Even if a player doesn't do the few remaining quests that award AD's they still have to travel from place to place and map to map to invoke when the clock counts down.
The play the game (sorta') whether they want to or not just by having to move around on the map.
How about this? Put the astal diamonds back into the invocation gifts and make it so you can not invoke until after you finish your first mission of the day. That way we have to actually play the character before we can invoke with it. Also; if you want to take something out of yhe invocation rewards, get rid of the free experience. I know people that leveled a character from 20 to 60 just by invoking. That's rediculous.
Carrying this same idea a step further, instead of making it so they can only invoke after completing one mission, make it so they have to complete another mission before they can invoke again. That way the can't just do one mission, then just log back in to invoke for the rest of the day.
Or how about this?
A player can invoke after completing a mission BUT they can only invoke at one site - one time...
A person can invoke at that campfire only once - then they need to find another campfire to invoke at each subsequent time.
That seems simple enough to me.
Even if a player doesn't do the few remaining quests that award AD's they still have to travel from place to place and map to map to invoke when the clock counts down.
The play the game (sorta') whether they want to or not just by having to move around on the map.
How about this? Put the astal diamonds back into the invocation gifts and make it so you can not invoke until after you finish your first mission of the day. That way we have to actually play the character before we can invoke with it. Also; if you want to take something out of yhe invocation rewards, get rid of the free experience. I know people that leveled a character from 20 to 60 just by invoking. That's rediculous.
Carrying this same idea a step further, instead of making it so they can only invoke after completing one mission, make it so they have to complete another mission before they can invoke again. That way the can't just do one mission, then just log back in to invoke for the rest of the day.
Or how about this?
A player can invoke after completing a mission BUT they can only invoke at one site - one time...
A person can invoke at that campfire only once - then they need to find another campfire to invoke at each subsequent time.
That seems simple enough to me.
Even if a player doesn't do the few remaining quests that award AD's they still have to travel from place to place and map to map to invoke when the clock counts down.
The play the game (sorta') whether they want to or not just by having to move around on the map.
easily automated.
Also just moving around the map is not playing. If a person is not going to play the game regardless of which missions they choose to play, they should just stay out of the game and save the bandwidth for people that actually login to play.
If they wanted to reward group activities, they would have put AD in the chests and loot tables in all those activities and more than **** rewards at all.
They do. It's called salvage.
Seriously whilst i can't remember if i posted the breakdown earlier here, but assuming one small T2 salvage drop from the 12 bosses downed over the three runs a rank 8+ VIP can expect with abusing the BtA nature of the loot earn some 36k AD just from salvage each day. Actually running will add another 17k or so. And the seals over a 30 day month will bring in an average of over 7k more a day. that means roughly 60k AD a day from a single character, of which 43k comes from rewards for running the content that are drops.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
callofkutuluMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 56Arc User
hmm sounds like they really just want the players to get their AD from the "sellers" 6$/1M AD vs 2000 zen / 1M AD sad sad state of affairs this game has become
yep, i agree with Call, devs still hasnt realized, further they nerfed, they are pushing some players becoming more desperate to buy from sellers just to speed up game progressions, devs just created "pause-mode" wall.
new invokings are almost worthless and coffers are nerfed by nasty RNG.
No, that's no reward, that's just a - more often than not empty - promise of a reward, because, even if the party finishes that dungeon, salvageable loot is random (so many know that they will get it only infrequently), or has to be payed for (in keys, so either effort or zen) in advance. Additional, many activities like SH business, foundries, doing campaigns, etc. don't give salvageable reward, or only extremely poor one.
It's just not time-efficient to do it for most, not to mention boring like hell, to run only the old remaining dungeons we know for three years, and no sensible company should force their customers to endure this only to participate in the most basic aspect of the game: advancing their characters.
T1 and T2 dungeons chests, (not quests, aghh autocorrect), have guaranteed salvage. They also have Guaranteed seals which can be used to buy Salvage. try again.
Post edited by carl103 on
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
It isn't visiting dungeons or doing skirmishes for Astral Diamonds that bothers me, it is those who think it is fun to incessantly do the same dungeons and skirmishes over and over till they are exhausted that I question...
In my opinion each dungeon and each skirmish should be doable one time for AD's and that's it.
But once a person makes it to level 70 and is able to obtain the best gear they can, what is the point for being able to use that gear to obtain even more Astral Diamonds - unless it is to attempt to corner the market on items in the auction house or Zen market, in effect artificially driving up prices to make them more AD's to drive up prices even higher.
Each dungeon and skirmish should give a set amount of Astral Diamonds - ONCE A DAY - the better gear you can obtain, either by questing or accumulating Astral Diamonds allows the player to complete more difficult and more profitable quests, dungeons and skirmishes for greater rewards but still each quest, dungeon or skirmish that awards Astral Diamonds should be doable one time per day and no more.
If a player goes through a particular quest be it from the regular game, dungeons or skirmishes and completes it that's called "playing the game" - if a person goes through a quest repeatedly just to accumulate Astral Diamonds or gear to turn into Astral Diamonds that's called "grinding" unless I'm mistaken and while grinding may fall into some people definition of "playing the game", I don't happen to think so.
But that's just my opinion.
DD~
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If a player goes through a particular quest be it from the regular game, dungeons or skirmishes and completes it that's called "playing the game" - if a person goes through a quest repeatedly just to accumulate Astral Diamonds or gear to turn into Astral Diamonds that's called "grinding" unless I'm mistaken and while grinding may fall into some people definition of "playing the game", I don't happen to think so.
Ooh er uhh... I am pretty sure "grinding" falls very much within the parameters by which Cryptic defines "playing the game".
Possibly a little too much, by the standards a lot of players would like to hold them to.
When I invoke it says that besides other things, I got let's say 150 AD but I don't. Since the upgrade, I have not received AD when I invoke, so why does it say that I have received it?
It says you have received, "50% Bonus Rough AD", not "Rough AD". The bonus AD goes into a pool that you can see under your avatar. The next time you complete a dungeon, skirmish, weekly quest, or get 30K AD XP reward, look in the log and see the bonus AD that was redeemed.
So you say that forcing legit customers through the few remaining, ancient and boring dungeons for a hope of getting something salvageable instead of doing stuff they would like to do is a legit approach for a MMO provider?
Nope, I am saying if that is going to be their approach to the game and they are rewarding for playing, then they should reward for doing the things that are "playing" the game.
Whatever, their definition of playing the game is, is currently too limited in my opinion. There are a LOT of things that I at least consider playing the game that we are not being rewarded AD for doing. They award AD for only certain action and I would like to see what the definition of those actions are.
It is my opinion and I am sure that there are folks who will disagree. Just trying to find a potential solution, instead of griping about how Cryptic did something that makes me mad. There are going to be problems with every solution that anyone can come up with. People make a living exploiting games, you cannot make a game non-exploitable, OK well maybe Tic-Tac-Toe, but if you get much more complex than that, someone will exploit it. And, if there is money to be made someone will. Crytpic, is just trying to stop the worst of it and in doing so are unfortunately upsetting a large group of their legit customers.
They should follow their own example with Maze Engine and give a small AD award for every single quest in the entire game. They can scale the amount based on the quest and character level, but every single quest should earn AD. Maybe only 50, or even 10.
If a player goes through a particular quest be it from the regular game, dungeons or skirmishes and completes it that's called "playing the game" - if a person goes through a quest repeatedly just to accumulate Astral Diamonds or gear to turn into Astral Diamonds that's called "grinding" unless I'm mistaken and while grinding may fall into some people definition of "playing the game", I don't happen to think so.
Ooh er uhh... I am pretty sure "grinding" falls very much within the parameters by which Cryptic defines "playing the game".
Possibly a little too much, by the standards a lot of players would like to hold them to.
I think the key phrase there is: "by which Cryptic defines"... I'm not Cryptic.
I realize it is their game and I either abide by their terms or move on and I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering the "move on" part...
It's over three years since I stopped other games and started playing Neverwinter and it's been about a two and a half year blast... but not so much any more and maybe it's time to go back and see what those other are doing now.
My only regret is that I spent so much money on Astral Diamonds for myself, friends and family over the years because now its basically going to have to be written off as a very bad investment.
Live and learn - and inform as many people as you can so they don't make the same mistake.
I'm a casual player and I've got to say, I feel cheated! You may call my toons a bot army but they're really not. Yes I have 7 characters, all of which I played to level 70, earned my way up there on each one and I think that in and of itself has earned me the right to invoke for AD to get to the character I'm presently playing. I started when Neverwinter first came out and wanted to see which character I would prefer to play and then added to those characters when you added more classes. I really enjoy several classes and as such have no real main yet. I choose which character I'm going to play depending on my mood and I do still do professions on all of them to advance them.
FYI, bot army refers to 1 player using 2-3 computers, loading up 5-6 accounts/characters and playing them all at the same time in a group. All my characters are on 1 account, I have no bot army.
I'm also a solo player, group content doesn't interest me much since groups tend to speed through as fast as they can vs taking their time to explore and enjoy the journey, so getting ADs from dungeons is kind of difficult. How about you take out the requirement to have more than 1 player in dungeons so we solo players can go explore some, you can set the difficulty by group vs solo content.
I have been doing missions for the druid and played enough hours using up all my invokes and gotten 0 ADs, so no, I'm not getting more than the old way, I'm getting none at all.
If they wanted to reward group activities, they would have put AD in the chests and loot tables in all those activities and more than **** rewards at all.
They do. It's called salvage.
Seriously whilst i can't remember if i posted the breakdown earlier here, but assuming one small T2 salvage drop from the 12 bosses downed over the three runs a rank 8+ VIP can expect with abusing the BtA nature of the loot earn some 36k AD just from salvage each day. Actually running will add another 17k or so. And the seals over a 30 day month will bring in an average of over 7k more a day. that means roughly 60k AD a day from a single character, of which 43k comes from rewards for running the content that are drops.
Salvage is only possible when a player can quest in areas that award epic gear, right?
What kind of gear at what item level does an individual need to be able to successfully navigate a T2 drop area?
I'd really like to know because my highest item level player, a cleric is 23K and none of the items dropped an any of the areas I can survive in are salvageable.
Basically as I see it the only people who have the ability to get a decent amount of Astral Diamonds are the people who don't really need them because they already have the high item level gear they need, so unless they just want to trade out their present high item level gear for different high item level gear for fun, they are using their AD's to convert to ZEN to buy keys (which I think is a mistake, keys should be an occasional (even rare) drop while playing or be able to be purchased with cash like the Zen gift cards).
Or I suspect they are using their Astral Diamonds to buy up stuff in the Auction House to artificially inflate prices... which gives them more Astral Diamonds which allows them to buy up even more stuff and further artificially inflate the prices in the Auction House.
Instead of solving the problem they say they have, it seems to me Cryptic is finding new and inventive ways to exacerbate the problem - only those people who already have a plethora of AD's have the capability to easily get more AD's and they are using their ability to make things more difficult for those of us who don't have that ability.
Salvage is only possible when a player can quest in areas that award epic gear, right?
The drop from dungeons.
T1 gear drops from Malabog's Castle, Valindra's Tower, Kessel, Lostmauth, Underdark skirmishes and Demogorgon drop Random T1 to T3.
T2 drops from Elie Temple of Spider, Elite Grey Wolf Den, Elite Cragmire Crypts, and Fangbreaker Island.
Demonic Heroic Encounters somtimes drop T1, seems about 20-25% of the time IMO.
Almost all of that can be accessed @ 2k GS.
The big issue is the T1 keys take a lot of effort per day to acquire and except for fangbreaker T2 keys just aren't available, (at profitable prices) VIP's however get 1-3 free per day per character that will work in the T2's except fangbreaker.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
Answers
You could argue that doing the dailies allows you to advance through the various campaigns, but there comes a point when you have completed the campaigns and then (aside from grinding stuff for SH and the level up bonus) there is little reward for continuing to do the dailies.
Further slowing people's progression by making them run content they may not enjoy or not progressing at all is just bad business. There are other ways to combat 'bots'..
You reward players for playing. You replace the invocation time gate with a playtime gate. Players can decide for themselves what content to use for their rad bonus and not feel funneled into the same limited options.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
A player can invoke after completing a mission BUT they can only invoke at one site - one time...
A person can invoke at that campfire only once - then they need to find another campfire to invoke at each subsequent time.
That seems simple enough to me.
Even if a player doesn't do the few remaining quests that award AD's they still have to travel from place to place and map to map to invoke when the clock counts down.
The play the game (sorta') whether they want to or not just by having to move around on the map.
They do. It's called salvage.
Seriously whilst i can't remember if i posted the breakdown earlier here, but assuming one small T2 salvage drop from the 12 bosses downed over the three runs a rank 8+ VIP can expect with abusing the BtA nature of the loot earn some 36k AD just from salvage each day. Actually running will add another 17k or so. And the seals over a 30 day month will bring in an average of over 7k more a day. that means roughly 60k AD a day from a single character, of which 43k comes from rewards for running the content that are drops.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
new invokings are almost worthless and coffers are nerfed by nasty RNG.
Additional, many activities like SH business, foundries, doing campaigns, etc. don't give salvageable reward, or only extremely poor one.
It's just not time-efficient to do it for most, not to mention boring like hell, to run only the old remaining dungeons we know for three years, and no sensible company should force their customers to endure this only to participate in the most basic aspect of the game: advancing their characters.
T1 and T2 dungeons chests, (not quests, aghh autocorrect), have guaranteed salvage. They also have Guaranteed seals which can be used to buy Salvage. try again.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
In my opinion each dungeon and each skirmish should be doable one time for AD's and that's it.
But once a person makes it to level 70 and is able to obtain the best gear they can, what is the point for being able to use that gear to obtain even more Astral Diamonds - unless it is to attempt to corner the market on items in the auction house or Zen market, in effect artificially driving up prices to make them more AD's to drive up prices even higher.
Each dungeon and skirmish should give a set amount of Astral Diamonds - ONCE A DAY - the better gear you can obtain, either by questing or accumulating Astral Diamonds allows the player to complete more difficult and more profitable quests, dungeons and skirmishes for greater rewards but still each quest, dungeon or skirmish that awards Astral Diamonds should be doable one time per day and no more.
If a player goes through a particular quest be it from the regular game, dungeons or skirmishes and completes it that's called "playing the game" - if a person goes through a quest repeatedly just to accumulate Astral Diamonds or gear to turn into Astral Diamonds that's called "grinding" unless I'm mistaken and while grinding may fall into some people definition of "playing the game", I don't happen to think so.
But that's just my opinion.
Possibly a little too much, by the standards a lot of players would like to hold them to.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Whatever, their definition of playing the game is, is currently too limited in my opinion. There are a LOT of things that I at least consider playing the game that we are not being rewarded AD for doing. They award AD for only certain action and I would like to see what the definition of those actions are.
It is my opinion and I am sure that there are folks who will disagree. Just trying to find a potential solution, instead of griping about how Cryptic did something that makes me mad. There are going to be problems with every solution that anyone can come up with. People make a living exploiting games, you cannot make a game non-exploitable, OK well maybe Tic-Tac-Toe, but if you get much more complex than that, someone will exploit it. And, if there is money to be made someone will. Crytpic, is just trying to stop the worst of it and in doing so are unfortunately upsetting a large group of their legit customers.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
I realize it is their game and I either abide by their terms or move on and I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering the "move on" part...
It's over three years since I stopped other games and started playing Neverwinter and it's been about a two and a half year blast... but not so much any more and maybe it's time to go back and see what those other are doing now.
My only regret is that I spent so much money on Astral Diamonds for myself, friends and family over the years because now its basically going to have to be written off as a very bad investment.
Live and learn - and inform as many people as you can so they don't make the same mistake.
FYI, bot army refers to 1 player using 2-3 computers, loading up 5-6 accounts/characters and playing them all at the same time in a group. All my characters are on 1 account, I have no bot army.
I'm also a solo player, group content doesn't interest me much since groups tend to speed through as fast as they can vs taking their time to explore and enjoy the journey, so getting ADs from dungeons is kind of difficult. How about you take out the requirement to have more than 1 player in dungeons so we solo players can go explore some, you can set the difficulty by group vs solo content.
I have been doing missions for the druid and played enough hours using up all my invokes and gotten 0 ADs, so no, I'm not getting more than the old way, I'm getting none at all.
What kind of gear at what item level does an individual need to be able to successfully navigate a T2 drop area?
I'd really like to know because my highest item level player, a cleric is 23K and none of the items dropped an any of the areas I can survive in are salvageable.
Basically as I see it the only people who have the ability to get a decent amount of Astral Diamonds are the people who don't really need them because they already have the high item level gear they need, so unless they just want to trade out their present high item level gear for different high item level gear for fun, they are using their AD's to convert to ZEN to buy keys (which I think is a mistake, keys should be an occasional (even rare) drop while playing or be able to be purchased with cash like the Zen gift cards).
Or I suspect they are using their Astral Diamonds to buy up stuff in the Auction House to artificially inflate prices... which gives them more Astral Diamonds which allows them to buy up even more stuff and further artificially inflate the prices in the Auction House.
Instead of solving the problem they say they have, it seems to me Cryptic is finding new and inventive ways to exacerbate the problem - only those people who already have a plethora of AD's have the capability to easily get more AD's and they are using their ability to make things more difficult for those of us who don't have that ability.
Just my two cents.
The drop from dungeons.
T1 gear drops from Malabog's Castle, Valindra's Tower, Kessel, Lostmauth, Underdark skirmishes and Demogorgon drop Random T1 to T3.
T2 drops from Elie Temple of Spider, Elite Grey Wolf Den, Elite Cragmire Crypts, and Fangbreaker Island.
Demonic Heroic Encounters somtimes drop T1, seems about 20-25% of the time IMO.
Almost all of that can be accessed @ 2k GS.
The big issue is the T1 keys take a lot of effort per day to acquire and except for fangbreaker T2 keys just aren't available, (at profitable prices) VIP's however get 1-3 free per day per character that will work in the T2's except fangbreaker.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin