It's IWD all over again, sigh. I waited till they removed BI dmg/resistance before I entered Kessel's, I can wait till they do the same with EF. I don't even have ilvl needed yet anyway.
There is one major rule in trading - if product has no price (free), then YOU are the product. This game was never "free to play", if you play without paying, it is because someone is paying enough for it. It is normal that paying customers get more fun, and "free" players are there just to allow paying customers to have more fun. Anyway. This as any other limitation like it before, will probably be lifted in 2-3 months.
There is one major rule in trading - if product has no price (free), then YOU are the product. This game was never "free to play", if you play without paying, it is because someone is paying enough for it. It is normal that paying customers get more fun, and "free" players are there just to allow paying customers to have more fun. Anyway. This as any other limitation like it before, will probably be lifted in 2-3 months.
That is all well and good but with this latest problem neither the paying customers not the 'free to play' players are having any fun since they both have to go through the same level of grind. You cannot buy shortcuts to get to the fun this time. The closest anyone can come to having fun is by following the old maxim: Grin and bear it ! >:)
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they remove the extra BI damage mobs dealt in IWD and KR and not just the BI resistance? Mobs just hit harder there now, I don't think it has anything to do with the BI damage mechanic they originally introduced.
While we are at it, am I the only one thinking they simply took the BI part of the code, changed only name displayed to EF and re-introduced it in mod10, which is why they had to remove it from iwd content?
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
I don't see how taking choice away from players is helpful. It's insulting.
If we want to run this dungeon naked and depend on our actual class skills to keep us alive, why do you want to take that away?
I understand the sentiment that you don't want to have new players entering a dungeon that is far too hard for them and getting frustrated repeatedly failing. That will not be the case here because of the (also somewhat extreme) 3.1k iLvl requirement.
Adding an EF resistance requirement on top of that, and in addition to the campaign gating serves simply to reduce playstyle variety and is an overt push to pay for Zen EF rez items. Shameful, find a different to monetize.
For the record, I like the idea of needing specific gear for specific challenges. To me, it feels very much like a D&D game if adventurers have to collect certain items to overcome greater threats in the world.
But to that point, the adventurers should also be able to decide whether or not to go after those items, or just meet the challenge head-on.
I think Everfrost should be a lethal mechanic inside Frostfang that's extremely difficult to just ignore, likely necessitating some sort of strategy to protect yourself from it. But I also think those strategies should be left up to the place, and you shouldn't assign an arbitrary requirement to enter the dungeon.
Heck, I'm a proponent of removing any sort of restriction at all (except the campaign unlocks) for those choosing to queue in Private groups.
If so, they need to force ppl to use EFR to survive FBI instead of making EFR an entry requirement. Add something like the island is so cold u get an unmitigatable cold dmg (only mitigatable by EFR) every second. This will force ppl to either keep hitting pots or get a proper level of EFR to survive the island. Also making the lifesteal severity and incoming heal is half as effective in this cold only to be mitigated by EFR. This will make EFR even more important to this dungeon since ppl usually depend on this 2 stat to survive.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I like the idea that Everfrost resistance actually matters for that dungeon. It gives the dungeon a special flavor and feel to it. I just don't want that to be totally thrown out because people don't want to change gear and be able to speed run it for loot, like it's just CN with snow.
There's something to be said for preserving unique flavors to these things. If people want a harder CN, just give them a harder CN...don't totally ruin the flavor of Fangbreaker Island by dumbing down or removing the Everfrost mechanic.
So again, do I think there should be a hard requirement of X% resistance to get in? No.
Do I think Everfrost resistance should really matter? Yes.
If your going to force requirements that are going to make running content harder, then actually make the content harder by keeping people from completing the dungeon without the resist needed. Also harder content should have better rewards. I'm all for making an all out hair pull inducing difficult dungeon, but for gods sake make the crawl worth it. More bound equipment and castle never style rewards are NOT the way to go. Guaranteed drops that you can roll on from the last boss that have value are. Mod 5 for all its flaws (loot and boot, easy content, no tanks or healer required with high enough IL) had it right for the time investment. Subsequent mods have fallen flat. Salvage and raw ad are all well and good, but the thrill of the reward is what keeps people coming back for more. Boring unbound +1 rings and a .00001% chance at a legendary bound ring do not.
I'm not going to be forced to buy and maintain a set of armor to run one dungeon that so far has no better loot than anything else in the game already available. I was excited about a 3.1k ilvl dungeon but that is wearing off quickly. Someday if I grind long enough maybe I'll get the gear, or they will change the requirements.
Think about it you can only get 4% resist from boons; so you need at least 25% more resist to get into FBI. If you want to count the potion that is another 5% still requiring 20% more. So about 3 pieces gear just to qualify.
Its not that I'm against the Everfrost mechanic or needing special item(s) for FBI but to require nearly a full set of armor that is difficult to acquire and/or very expensive plain sucks. The cherry on top is needing to maintain said armor resist in order to continue to be eligible to run the dungeon and not needed anywhere else in the game.
Why not create a new item and slot, like a resistance stone? They could even increase the % as you refine it from uncommon to epic to legendary etc. It could be used for more everfrost-like mechanics in the future. It also wouldn't screw with our current gear in order to meet requirements of a situational dungeon.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Im pretty sure wile watching a episode of Star Trek, I heard something about Everfrost resistance is futile.
Sadly , people forget about the everfrost part! It wasnt catchy or something. But , im like 99.9% positive that is what they said!
We are being crushed by BORG overlords!
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mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
I keep going back and forth in my mind on this whole thing. For now, im just going to keep doing the dailies and weeklies and unlock the campaign. I assume most of us higher geared players will use the minimum investment gear etc to get the 28% in and then switch gear once in Fangbreaker. ???
If they did in fact make Fangbreaker kill you without the 28% resist, then you are probably looking at not enough players queing for the dungeon because all the new gear degrades from what I understand. I never really got into all that black ice stuff back when so im no expert in that area.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they remove the extra BI damage mobs dealt in IWD and KR and not just the BI resistance? Mobs just hit harder there now, I don't think it has anything to do with the BI damage mechanic they originally introduced.
While we are at it, am I the only one thinking they simply took the BI part of the code, changed only name displayed to EF and re-introduced it in mod10, which is why they had to remove it from iwd content?
Nah, unless they changed it while I was gone, you never took BI damage from falling off of cliffs or running through fires.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
So, the solutions are to remove the pre-mod 6 set bonuses and make EF damage hit harder.
No, the solution is to stop making us get armor sets that we KNOW - because this was already the case with the black ice gear no one wanted (and which was ugly as sin) - are going to be otherwise useless. I already have good gear with the stats I want, invested a ton of time and AD to get it, even invested time to get or craft the transmutes I wanted. And the crafting requirement/expense this time is completely outrageous. This isn't mod 6 bad, but it is repeating the mistakes of mod 3.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Being unlock able items and looks like no one unlocked them on preview or at least posted about them (except the utility ring), no one knows the exact costs.
I know that the correction and apology have already been made and the actual value is 28% as originally stated, but I am not sure why everyone leapt to the conclusion that someone changed something and not that someone made a typo. Judging by all the outcry, not one person even considered that possibility.
I know that the correction and apology have already been made and the actual value is 28% as originally stated, but I am not sure why everyone leapt to the conclusion that someone changed something and not that someone made a typo. Judging by all the outcry, not one person even considered that possibility.
Occam's Razor.
You act like the "8" is right next to the "9" on the keyboard, and someone could've accidentally typed "29" instead of "28" and not notice.
That's pretty ridiculous. It's far, far more likely that this was some deep rooted conspiracy, meant to harm the players and force them to purchase more soup from their Stronghold market, in an effort to ring more cash out of the already throttled public.
Obviously number two sounds way more plausible.
EDIT: The irony of having to edit my post because of a typo
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
The Cawl Cennin soup is only available to those with a Market lvl 6.
@valwryn This is incorrect. There are 5 ranks of soup just like every other SH food, the least of them can be purchased as soon as you have a market at all, and every rank has the same 2% EFresist.
The lowest rank is Stone Soup. I can buy that, or visit an ally guild for a better (more expensive) one.
Being unlock able items and looks like no one unlocked them on preview or at least posted about them (except the utility ring), no one knows the exact costs.
Unfortunately, the figures shown on preview could be wrong. On live, the Boon costs have turned out to be higher than on Preview and the rewards for the weekly tasks are lower. So it's still a case of 'wait and see' as to how much they will actually cost when they appear in the Live Store. The stats do at least look interesting on the epic versions. Not great...but definitely interesting
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
At least make the drops worth while then people would welcome the gate, then whoever got through the gate first profits. Make the +5 rings a high drop rate, make the armor BoE, etc
Lash Urzoth 3.7k GWF, Pr3sTiGe 3k SW.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I will (begrudgingly admit) after some discussions with @micky1p00 that , you can indeed get there without the zen stuff. (after a boatload of grinding)
However, it doesnt SPEED the process up at all.
The grind is just way to heavy for this, it basically locks you into a choice of one alt (like forever man) , one of the BEST things about neverwinter is experiencing it through many different classes and builds (you know the builds that work anyways.. )
After mod 10 dropped, I went on live with soulbinder damnation , soulbinder fury, hellbringer fury and finally settled on hellbringer tempt as my new SW build (my sw only has r8s in all its slot, too week to be dps now)
I could however (ostensible anyways) have swapped all r12s, (bondings and enchants) and even played my SW in the new content..
But now? thats never going to happen, frankly this sux big bad cn green balls.
I think they overly penalized players and attempted a massive grind gate (either time and money or money and time together)
It needs to be scaled back, if people want to go for the fancy new armors let them.. I have no qualms about that, how about we settle for a compromise.
I say reduce the need down to 15%, so we can buy frostburn armors , use a couple potions/soup and allow us to enter it.
You win, as in its still pay gated and you get money . We win , as its not SUCH a harsh gating that alts will never play through it. and in the end, some resistance can be had if its needed.
There should be a more tempered approach to these, going all rambo basaltic on your end, without two thoughts to the playerbase, not so fair.
In my mind the best solution is to just remove the requirement, but if that is not a possibility, I think the next best solution is to at least reduce it down to a more reasonable entry point.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited August 2016
Please understand, to me it has nothing to do with whatever arbitrary #s you want to put on it, its the mere fact that BUYING 2 pieces of trade bar and 2 pieces of ZEN gear.. STILL wont at all cut it, you will still need to grind out something else (alot of something else) to enter.
Its just too harsh of a entry gate, they could do several things.. they could increase the resistance of frostburn armors base, so that after you get 3 pieces you should be all set(seems more then fair to me)
This funnels people into the zen store, they get money, we get access.
What I hate about the system now, is that EVEN after buying armors, you still have to grind and grind and grind to get access.
Its a crappy HAMSTER system and A'int most of us not happy about it. (yes there is always some odd ducks that no matter what this game company does, seem to be content) Whatever, good for them, I am not one of those people. I expect a little more courtesy and fairness for my dollars.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Its far worse the mod 3, the lowered the resistance pretty quickly so you could get into KR with two pieces of armor on (which we then all swapped out anyways) Becuase.. ya, grinding for black ice was long and boring and stupid and nobody was happy with it.
You cant do this here, not only would you need to buy 4 pieces, you would STILL have to grind HAMSTER campaign junk to get in.
All SO we can again can take off the HAMSTER armor and use something better.
Even if they made the new armors super.. (and how far do they want to push things) it comes down you have to maintain them.. and that sux, so 90% of the time you still would not wear them, due to the penalty of using them.
This is the part that is the same mistake, most of the players didnt like the empowered system, and wanted it gone.. we were all glad when we ditched that junk.
But now they bring it back.. then triple the amount of grind needed in this mod (if not more.. it maybe a sixfold amount of grinding)
Comments
I waited till they removed BI dmg/resistance before I entered Kessel's, I can wait till they do the same with EF. I don't even have ilvl needed yet anyway.
This game was never "free to play", if you play without paying, it is because someone is paying enough for it. It is normal that paying customers get more fun, and "free" players are there just to allow paying customers to have more fun.
Anyway. This as any other limitation like it before, will probably be lifted in 2-3 months.
If we want to run this dungeon naked and depend on our actual class skills to keep us alive, why do you want to take that away?
I understand the sentiment that you don't want to have new players entering a dungeon that is far too hard for them and getting frustrated repeatedly failing. That will not be the case here because of the (also somewhat extreme) 3.1k iLvl requirement.
Adding an EF resistance requirement on top of that, and in addition to the campaign gating serves simply to reduce playstyle variety and is an overt push to pay for Zen EF rez items. Shameful, find a different to monetize.
Know what's GREAT about the demon content? You don't need to wear stupid drowcraft to play it...!
There's something to be said for preserving unique flavors to these things. If people want a harder CN, just give them a harder CN...don't totally ruin the flavor of Fangbreaker Island by dumbing down or removing the Everfrost mechanic.
So again, do I think there should be a hard requirement of X% resistance to get in? No.
Do I think Everfrost resistance should really matter? Yes.
Think about it you can only get 4% resist from boons; so you need at least 25% more resist to get into FBI. If you want to count the potion that is another 5% still requiring 20% more. So about 3 pieces gear just to qualify.
Its not that I'm against the Everfrost mechanic or needing special item(s) for FBI but to require nearly a full set of armor that is difficult to acquire and/or very expensive plain sucks. The cherry on top is needing to maintain said armor resist in order to continue to be eligible to run the dungeon and not needed anywhere else in the game.
Why not create a new item and slot, like a resistance stone? They could even increase the % as you refine it from uncommon to epic to legendary etc. It could be used for more everfrost-like mechanics in the future. It also wouldn't screw with our current gear in order to meet requirements of a situational dungeon.
Sadly , people forget about the everfrost part! It wasnt catchy or something. But , im like 99.9% positive that is what they said!
We are being crushed by BORG overlords!
If they did in fact make Fangbreaker kill you without the 28% resist, then you are probably looking at not enough players queing for the dungeon because all the new gear degrades from what I understand. I never really got into all that black ice stuff back when so im no expert in that area.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12862991
Neverwinter Census 2017
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Occam's Razor.
Neverwinter Census 2017
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That's pretty ridiculous. It's far, far more likely that this was some deep rooted conspiracy, meant to harm the players and force them to purchase more soup from their Stronghold market, in an effort to ring more cash out of the already throttled public.
Obviously number two sounds way more plausible.
EDIT: The irony of having to edit my post because of a typo
This is incorrect. There are 5 ranks of soup just like every other SH food, the least of them can be purchased as soon as you have a market at all, and every rank has the same 2% EFresist.
The lowest rank is Stone Soup. I can buy that, or visit an ally guild for a better (more expensive) one.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Arrrghhhh, why's it gotta be so irksome and uncertain? (Because Cryptic, I know.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
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However, it doesnt SPEED the process up at all.
The grind is just way to heavy for this, it basically locks you into a choice of one alt (like forever man) , one of the BEST things about neverwinter is experiencing it through many different classes and builds (you know the builds that work anyways.. )
After mod 10 dropped, I went on live with soulbinder damnation , soulbinder fury, hellbringer fury and finally settled on hellbringer tempt as my new SW build (my sw only has r8s in all its slot, too week to be dps now)
I could however (ostensible anyways) have swapped all r12s, (bondings and enchants) and even played my SW in the new content..
But now? thats never going to happen, frankly this sux big bad cn green balls.
I think they overly penalized players and attempted a massive grind gate (either time and money or money and time together)
It needs to be scaled back, if people want to go for the fancy new armors let them.. I have no qualms about that, how about we settle for a compromise.
I say reduce the need down to 15%, so we can buy frostburn armors , use a couple potions/soup and allow us to enter it.
You win, as in its still pay gated and you get money .
We win , as its not SUCH a harsh gating that alts will never play through it.
and in the end, some resistance can be had if its needed.
There should be a more tempered approach to these, going all rambo basaltic on your end, without two thoughts to the playerbase, not so fair.
In my mind the best solution is to just remove the requirement, but if that is not a possibility, I think the next best solution is to at least reduce it down to a more reasonable entry point.
Its just too harsh of a entry gate, they could do several things.. they could increase the resistance of frostburn armors base, so that after you get 3 pieces you should be all set(seems more then fair to me)
This funnels people into the zen store, they get money, we get access.
What I hate about the system now, is that EVEN after buying armors, you still have to grind and grind and grind to get access.
Its a crappy HAMSTER system and A'int most of us not happy about it. (yes there is always some odd ducks that no matter what this game company does, seem to be content) Whatever, good for them, I am not one of those people. I expect a little more courtesy and fairness for my dollars.
You cant do this here, not only would you need to buy 4 pieces, you would STILL have to grind HAMSTER campaign junk to get in.
All SO we can again can take off the HAMSTER armor and use something better.
Even if they made the new armors super.. (and how far do they want to push things) it comes down you have to maintain them.. and that sux, so 90% of the time you still would not wear them, due to the penalty of using them.
This is the part that is the same mistake, most of the players didnt like the empowered system, and wanted it gone.. we were all glad when we ditched that junk.
But now they bring it back.. then triple the amount of grind needed in this mod (if not more.. it maybe a sixfold amount of grinding)