I want to enjoy this game... but it's just too easy.

rainhall · July 2016

I really admire some things about Neverwinter. I just finished the clockwork crypt at the end of Neverdeath and thought the art design in the crypt was amazing. However, two friends and I who just started are quickly losing interest because we can't find a way to get encounters that are even remotely challenging around level 30. We never need to heal. We're never in danger of losing. We've done skirmishes, dungeons, and world content/quests. Is there something we're missing? How do we get fights where our decisions actually matter? Even a little?

I hope the answer is not, "Wait until level X." Not sure I'm willing to grind through laughably easy levels to get to the part where I can actually play the game.

cirran1 · July 2016

Swing and a miss.

Cirran

scathias · July 2016

Grinding is not the term i would use for leveling from 0-60. Experienced players can do 0-60 in 1 day with out any large XP bonuses or anything. You should also know that all content from 0-60, excluding dungeons and skirmishes, is meant to solo friendly, so when you throw 3 people at content meant for 1 person it is going to be very easy for sure. As to dungeons and skirmishes being easy, the dungeons are because they have scaling issues and skirmishes.. i dunno, it has been ages since i have done those.

You might try killing the Dragons that spawn every 20 minutes in Neverdeath, Ebon Downs, Icespire, Rothe Valley and Whispering caverns. They are not always killed by other people and if you and your friends can find a dragon alone you can probably have some fun killing them.

Apart from that, yes, you are going to have to wait until lv 61+ for sure for harder content, and if you continue to use 3 people in content designed for solo play then you will continue to find little challenge while you level I am afraid.

Leveling to 60 will not take long (like i said, people can get there in a day (12-15hrs or so of played time), once you get into the Elemental Evil areas at lv 60+ there will be Heroic Encounters meant for 3, 10 and 15 people. Toss yourselves at them and see how things go, i think you will find the 10 and 15 man content challenging (not the 3 man stuff though).

rapo973 · July 2016

scathias said:
Grinding is not the term i would use for leveling from 0-60. Experienced players can do 0-60 in 1 day with out any large XP bonuses or anything. You should also know that all content from 0-60, excluding dungeons and skirmishes, is meant to solo friendly, so when you throw 3 people at content meant for 1 person it is going to be very easy for sure. As to dungeons and skirmishes being easy, the dungeons are because they have scaling issues and skirmishes.. i dunno, it has been ages since i have done those.

You might try killing the Dragons that spawn every 20 minutes in Neverdeath, Ebon Downs, Icespire, Rothe Valley and Whispering caverns. They are not always killed by other people and if you and your friends can find a dragon alone you can probably have some fun killing them.

Apart from that, yes, you are going to have to wait until lv 61+ for sure for harder content, and if you continue to use 3 people in content designed for solo play then you will continue to find little challenge while you level I am afraid.

Leveling to 60 will not take long (like i said, people can get there in a day (12-15hrs or so of played time), once you get into the Elemental Evil areas at lv 60+ there will be Heroic Encounters meant for 3, 10 and 15 people. Toss yourselves at them and see how things go, i think you will find the 10 and 15 man content challenging (not the 3 man stuff though).

Furthermore, as soon as you reach 70 another game starts.
You will have to run some campaigns: Ice wind Dale is quite challenging for a fresh 70 and you need a group to do it efficiently (all mobs are lvl 73). Epic dungeons may be challenging at the beginning as they require some knowledge and a good group composition.
All above sunk in a sea of grinding.

dupeks · July 2016

rapo973 said:
Furthermore, as soon as you reach 70 another game starts.
You will have to run all some campaigns: Ice wind Dale is quite challenging for a fresh 70 and you need a group to do it efficiently (all mobs are lvl 73). Epic dungeons may be challenging at the beginning as they require some knowledge and a good group composition.
All above sunk in a sea of grinding.

100% agree with this. The game is completely different after you hit cap.

That said, even 60-69 will likely be challenging for a first time character. At this point you need to know your character mechanics in order to stay alive.

One thing to enjoy also: PVP at low level. It's fleeting because you level up fast, but it can be a lot of fun and is a lot more balanced than when you get to cap.

Unknown · July 2016

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iandarksword · July 2016

Certain Foundry quests might have what you're looking for, however there would probably be a fair amount of digging.

rainhall · July 2016

Thanks for the replies!

jumpingmorks · July 2016

rainhall#5472 said:
I really admire some things about Neverwinter. I just finished the clockwork crypt at the end of Neverdeath and thought the art design in the crypt was amazing. However, two friends and I who just started are quickly losing interest because we can't find a way to get encounters that are even remotely challenging around level 30. We never need to heal. We're never in danger of losing. We've done skirmishes, dungeons, and world content/quests. Is there something we're missing? How do we get fights where our decisions actually matter? Even a little?

I hope the answer is not, "Wait until level X." Not sure I'm willing to grind through laughably easy levels to get to the part where I can actually play the game.

Unfortunately you are in for a rude awakening. The normal version of dungeons are easy, CT if I believe correctly is a level 12 dungeon and if you just finished Neverdeath that means you are most likely closer to level 25.

When you hit 70 and start doing T2's for your Protector Seals, pugging is going to be an awful experience, as even the trash mobs will one shot you with an evil side glance and they will continue to pose an issue for you until you are about 2.5k-3k depending on how fast you pick up the large learning curve that goes with knowing your class.

silverkelt · July 2016

I judge mmos based on other mmos I played.. this games leveling is no different then others at the earliest stages, they are built to progress very quickly through the game to get you at the higher levels.

I remember once in lotro, I got one of the classes through in 12 hours of game play (at the time to lvl 75) within 30 hours of game play, I had my full raid set + draighloch cloak and my main and off hand 2nd age weapons. I ran my first t2 raid like in 4th week of my new class)

The only thing I was missing was the permanent modifers, (boons they are called here) I had to go back and get those later. That of course took longer then leveling and gearing did.. like 3x as long actually. At least there you only had to get the ones useful for your class.

At the start of mod 6, they kinda of made leveling after 61 a pain, but since then, they put in so much easy filler stuff, its become much easier (elemental + maze give a ton of experience)

ghoulz66 · July 2016

I only dream of a self scaling feature where people can adjust solo difficulty to their likings. I want more stuff that's intense like the WoD lair bosses.

minotaur2857 · July 2016

ghoulz66 said:
I only dream of a self scaling feature where people can adjust solo difficulty to their likings. I want more stuff that's intense like the WoD lair bosses.

Shouldn't need to be a dream, I used to play City of Heroes which was a Cryptic game (at the time, they sold it later), and it had solo difficulty adjustment more than 10 years ago. But then again CoH was able to scale so that a level 70 levelled down to 60 wouldn't just blow away a level 60 mob, or get blown away by the reverse process, so it seems Cryptic has just gone backwards (the slash command system is a subset of what that game had also, I keep trying to use commands not in this game).

dupeks · July 2016

minotaur2857 said:
I used to play City of Heroes which was a Cryptic game (at the time, they sold it later), and it had solo difficulty adjustment more than 10 years ago.

I believe Neverwinter Online is actually branched off of the City of Heroes codebase. It's the same underlying engine, but it's been modified significantly since.

I do think that scaling is a possibility, but it's likely not that high up there on the list of features (and bug fixes). We might have to wait out the PS4 release and subsequent round of content before they get to QoL features on PC again.

torontodave · July 2016

first foundry quest in my sig, 'to infinity and beyond!' .. play the one with red stars (its harder)

people who review it are constantly complaining that they used all their health potions .. ahh.. to be a questing noob again. ;D

kitkathd · July 2016

Level 1-60 is the tutorial for the game pretty much. The good news is leveling to 60 is actually pretty fun, least it was for me, the first time through. Level 1-60 and Dread ring are the base game so its where the best story and content is. After that its nickle and dimes worth of campaigns where you have these annoying daily tasks to do each day in like 10 different campaigns. Its kinda like chores only the rewards are abilities that unlock for your character. Once you are about level 60 you start to do harder content but the real deal doesn't start till you are level 70 and the 66-69 grind can be bad if you don't know the places to go for it. You gain the most exp from quests/missions. Do not grind levels out in queues like pvp or dungeons/skirmishes unless its for Astral diamonds. Work your storyline quests from Sgt Knox. Even if the content is trivial its giving you exp that is far more than killing hard content for your level is and you can't start higher level content till you have done those quests. At level 30ish you unlock the lower half of the Tyrrany of Dragons campaign. Sgt Knox should guide you to this. Thats the preview of what the level 70 game will be like. Its also where you will start to fight things that are actually hard. The next campaigns that unlock will be the Elemental evil campaign at level 60. That one is pretty hard also but you get good gear from it. Also you can always work on your guild stronghold map for the guild.

louchristan · July 2016

I can understand that some players will complain that the game is too hard because everyone have their own idea how that game should work but I really don't see why people would complain that the game is too easy. All you need to do is take off your good gears and fight with lesser gears. If that still not enough just fight with bare hand. That sure will test your skill and ego.

deathbeez · July 2016

pre-60s is about the story and lore. Enjoy the freshness. It goes 100% grind after that.

When you hit 70s, pick up group run epic grey wolf den and come back and tell us it's easy.

lirithiel · July 2016

deathbeez said:
pre-60s is about the story and lore. Enjoy the freshness. It goes 100% grind after that.

When you hit 70s, pick up group run epic grey wolf den and come back and tell us it's easy.

Best advice yet. Enjoy the lore and storyline while levelling to 60. It becomes a rarity after that.

samaka · July 2016

torontodave said:
first foundry quest in my sig, 'to infinity and beyond!' .. play the one with red stars (its harder)

people who review it are constantly complaining that they used all their health potions .. ahh.. to be a questing noob again. ;D

Now that the foundry is up I will be trying your quests TorontoDave!

One question, why do some foundry quests have red review stars and some yellow? Difficulty of quest?

iandarksword · July 2016

Red stars are from a Featured quests, yellow is an unfeatured quests, otherwise there isn't much difference. Difficulty is dependent upon the author.

nornsavant · July 2016

I never understand these arguments of “it’s too easy?”

It’s up to you how easy it is.

Want to be challenged by those goblins? Try it with generic weapons. Try it without armor. Change your power loadout to something less optimal. Go to places above your level if you are sub-70. You can make it more difficult.

When you can fight solid content at level with no gear and a single button and still walk through it yeah maybe THAT is too easy.

70 is a different paradigm and a turning point for the game. 70+ is where the game tells you what it is really about and what you are in for from this point out. You may end up wishing for some of that pre 70’s content just for a break from the 20 hour cooldown one-quest wonders that campaigns have become.

ghoulz66 · July 2016

nornsavant said:
I never understand these arguments of “it’s too easy?”

It’s up to you how easy it is.

Want to be challenged by those goblins? Try it with generic weapons. Try it without armor. Change your power loadout to something less optimal. Go to places above your level if you are sub-70. You can make it more difficult.

When you can fight solid content at level with no gear and a single button and still walk through it yeah maybe THAT is too easy.

70 is a different paradigm and a turning point for the game. 70+ is where the game tells you what it is really about and what you are in for from this point out. You may end up wishing for some of that pre 70’s content just for a break from the 20 hour cooldown one-quest wonders that campaigns have become.

Hard to these days with every trick in the book that has caused people's bags to get filled to the brim.

nornsavant · July 2016

ghoulz66 said:

Hard to these days with every trick in the book that has caused people's bags to get filled to the brim.

Yeah, you got me there. Player vs Marketing is the toughest fight of all.

jyotai · July 2016

minotaur2857 said:
I used to play City of Heroes which was a Cryptic game (at the time, they sold it later), and it had solo difficulty adjustment more than 10 years ago.

Yeah but even when we cranked that up to max, stuff could still be near AFK'd through.

The last time I saw challenge in an MMO was in earlier WoW before they removed all the random elite mobs wandering everywhere. Back when those were around stuff could just come out of nowhere and smack my toon into a gravewalk in an instant. Of course... a bit part of that was also that I was new to MMOs... the more pro players already found even that too easy...

MMOs have long had this problem.

It is too bad EQNext got canceled because it had the right idea: no levels, you make a toon you're there at endgame. Now survive. Of course it got canceled because while this is how most solo video games are... MMO devs couldn't figure out how to do it and also make a fun game for 'random groups of players'...

This is also similar to the problem that has nearly killed Wildstar. It had moderate difficulty leveling (after halfway through) at launch, and raid-difficulty leveling dungeons. Then at max you had raids that made classic everquest look easy... and the game nearly died because if I recall right: only 2 guilds ever even made it in the door of the Wildstar raids as they were at launch.

People all said they wanted challenge and hardcore - and when they got it, they bolted for the doors...

Wildstar has changed all of that since... but the reputation that launch gave it still threatens to kill the game... People don't actually want the challenge they claim they want...

klangeddin · July 2016

jyotai said:

minotaur2857 said:
I used to play City of Heroes which was a Cryptic game (at the time, they sold it later), and it had solo difficulty adjustment more than 10 years ago.
Wildstar has changed all of that since... but the reputation that launch gave it still threatens to kill the game... People don't actually want the challenge they claim they want...

Of course they don't. Not at the aggregate at least, most people play videogames for enjoyment, relax, escapism, not be pummeled with absurd challenges. Games have to be balanced, which means not too easy and not too hard, the moment you swing one way or the other, the game is gonna pay the price.

Unknown · July 2016

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thefabricant · July 2016

jyotai said:

minotaur2857 said:
I used to play City of Heroes which was a Cryptic game (at the time, they sold it later), and it had solo difficulty adjustment more than 10 years ago.
Yeah but even when we cranked that up to max, stuff could still be near AFK'd through.

The last time I saw challenge in an MMO was in earlier WoW before they removed all the random elite mobs wandering everywhere. Back when those were around stuff could just come out of nowhere and smack my toon into a gravewalk in an instant. Of course... a bit part of that was also that I was new to MMOs... the more pro players already found even that too easy...

MMOs have long had this problem.

It is too bad EQNext got canceled because it had the right idea: no levels, you make a toon you're there at endgame. Now survive. Of course it got canceled because while this is how most solo video games are... MMO devs couldn't figure out how to do it and also make a fun game for 'random groups of players'...

This is also similar to the problem that has nearly killed Wildstar. It had moderate difficulty leveling (after halfway through) at launch, and raid-difficulty leveling dungeons. Then at max you had raids that made classic everquest look easy... and the game nearly died because if I recall right: only 2 guilds ever even made it in the door of the Wildstar raids as they were at launch.

People all said they wanted challenge and hardcore - and when they got it, they bolted for the doors...

Wildstar has changed all of that since... but the reputation that launch gave it still threatens to kill the game... People don't actually want the challenge they claim they want...

I have never played wildstar, not because I don't like challenging content, but the setting in wildstar doesn't appeal to me. I do play PoE though, which is where I get my challenge/enjoyment from. Is PoE dead for having challenge? No lol. Nowhere near. The game specifically advertised itself to people wanting a challenging game and guess what, those are the people that stick around and play it.

ribbs1 said:
No one does ECC or EGWD. They are pointless.

I do them quite frequently. Guess I have been demoted to nobody.

minotaur2857 · July 2016

jyotai said:

minotaur2857 said:
I used to play City of Heroes which was a Cryptic game (at the time, they sold it later), and it had solo difficulty adjustment more than 10 years ago.
Yeah but even when we cranked that up to max, stuff could still be near AFK'd through.

The last time I saw challenge in an MMO was in earlier WoW before they removed all the random elite mobs wandering everywhere. Back when those were around stuff could just come out of nowhere and smack my toon into a gravewalk in an instant. Of course... a bit part of that was also that I was new to MMOs... the more pro players already found even that too easy...

MMOs have long had this problem.

It is too bad EQNext got canceled because it had the right idea: no levels, you make a toon you're there at endgame. Now survive. Of course it got canceled because while this is how most solo video games are... MMO devs couldn't figure out how to do it and also make a fun game for 'random groups of players'...

This is also similar to the problem that has nearly killed Wildstar. It had moderate difficulty leveling (after halfway through) at launch, and raid-difficulty leveling dungeons. Then at max you had raids that made classic everquest look easy... and the game nearly died because if I recall right: only 2 guilds ever even made it in the door of the Wildstar raids as they were at launch.

People all said they wanted challenge and hardcore - and when they got it, they bolted for the doors...

Wildstar has changed all of that since... but the reputation that launch gave it still threatens to kill the game... People don't actually want the challenge they claim they want...

CoH yes for some classes and powersets was easy by the end of the game, but by no means all at +4x8 solo (all foes +4 levels and group size set for a party of 8).

Did you try RIFT raids ? some of those were really tough in the early days.

tripsofthrymr · July 2016

ribbs1 said:
No one does ECC or EGWD. They are pointless.

People that want to min/max rewards don't do them because they are relatively long compared to options like eTOS. People that want to play Neverwinter run them quite often.

chemjeff · July 2016

louchristan said:
but I really don't see why people would complain that the game is too easy.

It's a passive-aggressive way for people to brag about how awesome they are.

klangeddin · July 2016

chemjeff said:

louchristan said:
but I really don't see why people would complain that the game is too easy.
It's a passive-aggressive way for people to brag about how awesome they are.

Its' just aggressive without passive, actually. They're very adamant about it, really.

I want to enjoy this game... but it's just too easy.

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