Anyone else use up a GAZILLION Pres Wards this double refines???

bluebubbl3s · June 2016

OMG the R&G is beyond pathethic. I swear I have spent a small fortune and wasted more pres wards that i could even count.

This evening I used 34 pres wards on a 10% chance to upgrade my twisted weapon on my DC to legendary. Thats not counting the other twisted weapon and the artifact I upgraded to mythic, plus the two rank 11 bondings to rank 12. i easily used over 150 pres wards... and i am pretty sure I didnt do too bad compared to some. Way to rip people off.

anyone get any more ripped off than i did??

vinceent1 · June 2016

dont tell me man, i have over 50 superior marks of potency stored and full bank of preserv wards ready to upgrade two of my chars all enchants from 10 to 11. its 5% chance. dont wanna hear any scary movies

Unknown · June 2016

This content has been removed.

zepherax · June 2016

The odds are freaky in the game. Sigils to Mythic say its just a 5% chance. But I got did 3 and it only took 5 green wards. But upgrading to gold it took 10 times that for 1.

Unknown · June 2016

This content has been removed.

taitinhakkaaja · June 2016

I don't even want to know how many hundred i spent. There should be option to spend fixed amount of pres wards, like if you have 10% chance to upgrade -> put 10 pres wards and 100% success.
In current system it takes forever to upgrade stuff.

whymushroom · June 2016

People seem to have a terrible feeling for randomness. 34 wards needed on a 10% succes item? That's nothing weird at all! Yes, it's more than you would need on average.

Ready for a small lesson on statistics? Okay, so let's begin with a coin flip. Chance to get heads after one try is 50%, right? After two flips, you're at 100%, wrong. Each try you get that 50% chance again, no matter what happened in the past.

Now I'm flipping this coin 3 times. What is the chance it never lands on heads? That is 0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.5^3 = 13%.
Same coin again, now flipping 20 times. What is the chance it never lands on heads? That is 0.5^20 = 0.0001%.

Now I'm flipping a different coin. On average, this coin lands 10% on heads, and 90% on tails. I'm flipping this coin 3 times like the previous coin. What is the chance it never lands on heads? That is 0.9*0.9*0.9 = 0.9^3 = 73%

Same coin again, now flipping 20 times. What is the chance it never lands on heads? That is 0.9^20 = 12%.

Same coin again, now flipping 36 times. What is the chance it never lands on heads? That is 0.9^36= 2.3%.

So, the chance to get unlucky 36 times with a 10% succes rate is 2.3%. Now you're not upgrading one thing, but all your gear. 22 enchantments, 4 artifacts, and 4 artifact gear items. 30 Items in total that need to be upgraded.

So what is the chance YOU experience being 36 times unlucky with 10% succes rate when you upgrade all your gear?
100%-(100%-2.3%)^30 = 49.5%

Let's make it even worse, you experience being unlucky 250 times in a row with a 2% succes rate: (100%-2%)^250=0.6%. That sucks, but what is the chance when you try to get all your 22 enchants to rank 12? 100%-(100%-0.06%)^22=13%

Mod edit: No flaming (name calling). Thanks.

jonkoca · June 2016

Refined 1 artifact to mythic, 3 enchants 10->11, 1 bonding to 12, total presward count: about 160. I was pretty lucky, except one 5% chance, which took 67 wards to pop.

xaxiphoe · June 2016

I've not been playing long, a couple of months, and I have just used 27 wards on a 25% chance - and because of that I won't be refining anything past 40% from now on, and I'm going to recommend new players in our alliance do the same unless they have money to burn.

27 wards costs 300 zen = 150,000 AD - a rank 8 azure rune costs.... wait for it 39,000 ad - I could have sold the 30 wards and bought 3 rank 8's for the cost of upgrading just 1.

And this is on top of wasting 20 on a 40% chance about 2 weeks ago.

I was under the impression that refining was there so people could use all the extra runes they collect to increase the powers of the ones they use, but the way the mechanic is designed it's FAR FAR CHEAPER to just buy them, as long as you have the AD of course, which I don't. So the mechanic to improve my gear does not favor the player - but microtrans, and sections of the game are completely off limit unless I improve my gear.

Another poster said 36 on a 10% chance - that I could almost live with, but 27 on a 25% chance is just (*******) awful - maybe mymushroom would like to work out the odds of 27 fails scaled to 36 for a 10%.

I don't have the time to play to earn the AD, and on principle I refuse to be held to ransom with microtrans for upgrading my gear. I bought VIP because I'm one of the few players (according to conversations in zone) that actually believes even a F2P game developer should still be paid for their work, but not to the extent that it's painful. The only reason I have 50 wards is because of the 50% sale using what was left after buying 6 month vip....

now I'm stuck with 6 months gametime for a game that has just royally kicked me in the plums too often, how much of chump do I feel now?

namelesshero347 · June 2016

taitinhakkaaja said:
There should be option to spend fixed amount of pres wards, like if you have 10% chance to upgrade -> put 10 pres wards and 100% success.

It's called a coal ward. Cost you 100 pres wards though

dragoness10 · June 2016

I used preservation wards this double RefP event. I've successfully refined many things. I will say overall it doesn't help to just mindlessly click through ward after ward incessantly until your item upgrades.

Here's a few tips which for either superstition or some unexplainable reason seem to help -

*Use 5 pres wards, and if that doesn't upgrade then close the window, wait a minute, and then try to upgrade again.

*Try upgrading right after you see an admin message of somebody won something wonderful from a lockbox.

*After a few fails try zoning in somewhere else, or just change instances.

*Literally get off your high horse. Don't upgrade when on/in a mount.

*Move the item from one bag to another before trying again to upgrade it.

*Maybe it's just Besheba playing with you! Try upgrading after an invoke to your deity.

There's no measureable means to any of these to better guarantee success, but you may feel better for trying them at least.

vinceent1 · June 2016

i strongly recommend dont upgrade for example 10 % success if you have only 20 pres wards, or you fail them and get pissed. spare your health the game is not worth to make it worse. its not troll post i am completely serious

just save AD and ZEN for every June and November and buy gazzilions of pres wards during 50% discount. at least to have enough of them for a half year .... if more you can always sell them at AH

wildfirede · June 2016

I must say this time around i got lucky - bought 2k wards being prepared to spend them based on previous experience and ended up using less than 300.

That being said, this equals 5 full games on gog or steam during summer sale just to upgrade a few stones in nwo.

Unknown · June 2016

This content has been removed.

jonkoca · June 2016

My tactic is to buy enough wards to nominally guarrentee success i.e. 20x5%=100%, find a quite instance somewhere, then burn through those wards as fast as I can. Usually works.

namelesshero347 · June 2016

xsayajinx1 said:

I refined 6x artifact equipment to legendary, 1 artifact to mythic, 2x Bonding r11 to r12, 1x vicious from r8 to r12.

Cost me a total of ~75 preservation wards.

You should buy a lottery ticket. Generally all those upgrades would consumed, on average, 155 pres wards. And many people would do it in twice or even three times the average. But stick around the casino for more 5% R11/mythic upgrades and you will eventually experience 75 wards on one upgrade. I myself have burned over an entire 99 stack on a single 5% upgrade, five times already over the past 2-3 years. This event, my two worst 5% upgrades took 85 and 43 wards. Any my two best, 0 and 2.

vinceent1 · June 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
To be honest, the success rate in NW is AWESOME in comparison to other games I played in the past, in addition it's so easy to get wards. I am more than happy how the system works over here, probably due to my past experience with other games.

In NW you actually see what your success chance is ( 3% ; 10% ; 50% etc.). Also it feels like those numbers are accurate and true. In other games they keep the success rate secret, so you never really know what's going on ...

I refined 6x artifact equipment to legendary, 1 artifact to mythic, 2x Bonding r11 to r12, 1x vicious from r8 to r12.

Cost me a total of ~75 preservation wards.

big a pardon? easy to get wards? are you crazy? for many months(? 7-8 ?) preservation wards cost around 4200 AD one (if you use voucher) and you need so many of them. extremely overpriced bottleneck of character development. maybe you are already bis and slowly gearing alts, but other players not

lirithiel · June 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
To be honest, the success rate in NW is AWESOME in comparison to other games I played in the past, in addition it's so easy to get wards. I am more than happy how the system works over here, probably due to my past experience with other games.

In NW you actually see what your success chance is ( 3% ; 10% ; 50% etc.). Also it feels like those numbers are accurate and true. In other games they keep the success rate secret, so you never really know what's going on ...

I refined 6x artifact equipment to legendary, 1 artifact to mythic, 2x Bonding r11 to r12, 1x vicious from r8 to r12.

Cost me a total of ~75 preservation wards.

You must be the luckiest player in NW with those success rates. Past experience tells me the RNG in this game is abysmal and the percentages for success rate are nowhere near accurate and true. You and the OP are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Unknown · June 2016

This content has been removed.

karakla1 · June 2016

Only for your informations: Preservation Wards are not cheap.

To upgrade all your enchantments, artifacts and artifact gear you need about 1,554 Preservation Wards if you always have the success within the statistic. That means it costs you about 7,700,000 AD.

Coalescent Wards cost more but you need a lot less of them. At max. 34 for weapon AND armor enchantment. But for the armor a mere lesser soulforge is already good enough for anyone, means you only need 17 coalescent wards which costs you 8,500,000 AD.

So yeah. Preservation Wards and Coalescent Wards are almost equal in their costs for your overall gear progression.

aslan3775 · June 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
By the way, to go more into detail. Pres wards were only used from epic to legendary upgrades for the 6x artifact equipment!

And around 30-35 pres wards were needed alone for the 2x bondings.
As it seems, I might be really lucky with upgrading enchantment/artifacts. Had a couple of first-try-success with 3% & 5% chance.

On the other hand I don't have any luck in other parts of the game like dropping the valueable items. My only valueable drop ever was an artifact belt when they were worth like 5m+ ADs back in mod 4.

What I wanna say is; in the end everything evens out!

I believe that you were extremely lucky, and yes, I agree it does seem that luck evens out. I have one character that always seems to beat the averages, but I have three others who eat pres wards like two-penny candy. I have one of those unfortunate toons that is 'ready to refine' a weapon, four artifacts, and numerous enchantments. He has 'eaten' 42 pres wards already, and nothing has been refined. All of the refining that I have tried so far is for 10% chance. So I am rapidly closing in on Whymushroom's 1/2% Loser Rating And I have so many other items to refine.

I think my main comment is that the RNG system just isn't a fun part of the game. I realize they need AD sinks, and I realize that I could just buy Coal wards, but the cost differential between Coal wards and Pres wards is so tremendous, it hurts to use Coal wards for 10% chances. But I have. After another toon ate 84 pres wards for a 10% chance at a legendary weapon and still didn't refine the item, I broke down and used a Coal ward. I just couldn't take it anymore.

I would really love to see something else mitigate the pain of preservation wards--they just adjusted the RNG for Power Points--could they do something for the Preservation Wards? Please feel free to flame me if this is stupid, but how about a Blue Preservation ward that increases the chance by 5-10% and saves your refinement raw materials? Maybe a Purple Pres Ward that increases the chance by 20%. Maybe those numbers are too high, and it would be better to do it using their rank system. So If you have a 5% chance, a blue Pres ward would bump it to 10%, and a purple Pres ward would bump it to the next level or 20%. If you have a 10% chance, blue would make it 20%, purple 30%.

I hate the idea of adding another item to store in my inventory, but if they never intend to reduce the cost of a Coal Ward, then how about something that bridges the gap and reduces the pain of 'Refining RNG'?

lirithiel · June 2016

Remove the chance to upgrade. Make it 100%. Scrap the wards BS.

aslan3775 · June 2016

lirithiel said:
Remove the chance to upgrade. Make it 100%. Scrap the wards BS.

I tend to agree. When you look at the cost in time and effort to build up a weapon or artifact or enchantment up to the higher levels--IT IS ENOUGH. 4.6 Million RP for one weapon, 10.6 million for an artifact. Purple marks of union, stability, power and Potency. And then--spend more on wards.

Unknown · June 2016

This content has been removed.

beckylunatic · June 2016

Fill the stuff during 2xRP. Do the actual upgrading at a later date.

empalas · June 2016

Ya the RNG Boss this time around is vicious...30% took me about 15 tries last night

szejhuludpuchacz · June 2016

beckylunatic said:
Fill the stuff during 2xRP. Do the actual upgrading at a later date.

^this. I feel like rng during 2rp event is worse than normal.

ogarious · June 2016

And I know I am going to generate some hate with this. But I ranked a 10% and a 5% off of 1 pres ward each over this last weekend. Now there was a couple times where I used 10 or so in a row. But I ranked up a artifact from Blue to Purple as well on the third try on top of what I posted above. So, all in all. I will never hit the powerball now....@#!$ you cryptic!

solbergx · June 2016

Buy coal wars I don't see the purpose of this thread

aslan3775 · June 2016

solbergx said:
Buy coal wards. I don't see the purpose of this thread.

Ummmmm. The purpose of the thread, and every other one that complains about RNG and preservation wards/coal wards, is to point out the incredible cost that is added to the back side of 'leveling up' your character. A Gazillion pres wards could be offset by significantly less than a Bazillion coal wards, but the cost factor that is added into improving your character is still HUGE.
Most likely, the other purpose of the thread, at least for me, is to whine about how many pres wards I just wasted after trying to improve an item that should have had a 10, 20, or 30% chance for success and took significantly more attempts than the 'stated likelyhood for success'.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

And @ogarious --no hate here--maybe you can upgrade my artifacts for me!!!

Or lend me your lucky pres ward!!

xaxiphoe · June 2016

> @xsayajinx1 said:
> To be honest, the success rate in NW is AWESOME in comparison to other games I played in the past, in addition it's so easy to get wards. I am more than happy how the system works over here, probably due to my past experience with other games.
>
> In NW you actually see what your success chance is ( 3% ; 10% ; 50% etc.). Also it feels like those numbers are accurate and true. In other games they keep the success rate secret, so you never really know what's going on ...
>
> I refined 6x artifact equipment to legendary, 1 artifact to mythic, 2x Bonding r11 to r12, 1x vicious from r8 to r12.
>
> Cost me a total of ~75 preservation wards.

Then you must either be hacking somehow or the luckiest person in the game, because after a post on our website no-one in our alliance of guilds has had the same experience, that's over 1000 players.

Anyone else use up a GAZILLION Pres Wards this double refines???

Comments