GWF discussion - What are the best paragon feats, stats, powers?

tigersclaw · May 2016

In your opinion, what are the best paragon feats, stats, powers?

For my new GWF character, I've been following mostly Icydrake's (focus on DEX, speed) and Lancer's (focus on STR, damage) builds. I read other builds occasionaly, like Lia Knowles and Lazalia, but don't follow them much, as they are only good for PVE, not PVP.

Is deep gash worth it? Both Icydrake and Lancer put no points into deep gash. I guess maybe because they think it doesn't do good damage? I really like deep gash on paper. I can't decide if I should put 5 points into it, or just 2 or 3, or none. I'm not sure, but it must be the only damage over time power for the GWF, I like damage over time powers.

There are always some things I really like missing from every build I read. For example, Crescendo (I went Iron Vanguard).

As for stats, do you put all points into what? What is your main stat? STR? CON? What other stat do you put all your points into? STR+DEX (glass-cannon)? CON+DEX (good for PVP)? CON+STR (good for PVP)?

ltsmithneko · May 2016

pr3stigex · May 2016

I agree, unfortunately the GWF doesn't really have the ability to be good at PVP while still leading DPS in dungeons.

tigersclaw · May 2016

This happened 2 times in a row already, in 2 dungeons, 2 different Clerics got 1st place in paingiver, I got 2nd place. Really?

I just tried it again, I'm level 34, went for Cragmire Crypts with 2 randoms, a level 22 Cleric and a level 22 GWF. Guess who did more damage? Me as expected? Wrong. Plus, I already have all the Mulhorand weapons so that's not an excuse. What am I doing wrong? I follow all the advice, Daring Shout before the battle, Wicked Strike to strike many enemies at once, Sure Strike on bosses, dailies, Unstoppable, the whole 9 yards.

My main character is a level 70 Cleric and it always made me frustrated to get the last spot in DPS. Now a level 22 Cleric goes and does better than my level 34 GWF?!?!?!

That Cleric didn't even have the Mulhorand weapons, I do.

I wonder if it's because of his area of effect powers that do more damage at once in this particular dungeon? Or his ranged attacks or damage over time attacks? Btw, I still was 1st in number of kills.

I checked just before the final boss fight, Blackdagger, I was at 1st place with 205,000 damage done, the cleric was 2nd with 200,000. I thought I would get 1st place cuz in theory I do more damage than him in a boss fight. I was wrong. After the final battle, he got 1st place with 275,000, I got 2nd place with 250,000. OMG!

armadeonx · May 2016

Your post is not relevant to this thread - but as it's here I'll put in a comment

I've seen this happen one or twice - usually the thing I've noticed is the cleric either had a very good companion or a very good weapon enchantment.

Such anomalies occur in the lower levels but as you rank up things get back to 'normal'.

ltsmithneko · May 2016

tigernuno said:
This happened 2 times in a row already, in 2 dungeons, 2 different Clerics got 1st place in paingiver, I got 2nd place. Really?

I just tried it again, I'm level 34, went for Cragmire Crypts with 2 randoms, a level 22 Cleric and a level 22 GWF. Guess who did more damage? Me as expected? Wrong. Plus, I already have all the Mulhorand weapons so that's not an excuse. What am I doing wrong? I follow all the advice, Daring Shout before the battle, Wicked Strike to strike many enemies at once, Sure Strike on bosses, dailies, Unstoppable, the whole 9 yards.

My main character is a level 70 Cleric and it always made me frustrated to get the last spot in DPS. Now a level 22 Cleric goes and does better than my level 34 GWF?!?!?!

That Cleric didn't even have the Mulhorand weapons, I do.

I wonder if it's because of his area of effect powers that do more damage at once in this particular dungeon? Or his ranged attacks or damage over time attacks? Btw, I still was 1st in number of kills.

I checked just before the final boss fight, Blackdagger, I was at 1st place with 205,000 damage done, the cleric was 2nd with 200,000. I thought I would get 1st place cuz in theory I do more damage than him in a boss fight. I was wrong. After the final battle, he got 1st place with 275,000, I got 2nd place with 250,000. OMG!

To non-level 70 damage means nothing once you reach 70 you'll see each classes potential.

unitedweevil679 · May 2016

The merc companion can solo crag crypts if you feed him those outrageously cheap experience tomes and put some good stuff on him. It's one of the easiest ways to level up as a support class.

Also, if the cleric player knows cleric, they could have tossed a pile of DoTs out, leaving them free for more attacks while those DoTs chip away at everyone's health.

Could also be mount powers/insignia bonuses.

pr3stigex · May 2016

@tigernuno its probably your rotations, you also have to put in a lot of effort, stay just ahead of the group and fight for your kills.

tigersclaw · May 2016

unitedweevil679#9682 said:
The merc companion can solo crag crypts if you feed him those outrageously cheap experience tomes and put some good stuff on him. It's one of the easiest ways to level up as a support class.

Also, if the cleric player knows cleric, they could have tossed a pile of DoTs out, leaving them free for more attacks while those DoTs chip away at everyone's health.

Could also be mount powers/insignia bonuses.

All possible explanations. I have a level 70 Cleric, healer/haste (not DPS), I almost always get 1st place on the healing chart and last place in DPS. Now I see a level 32 Cleric do better than my brand new "all powerful" GWF, that's what made me kinda mad... "U mad bro?" U bet I'm mad bro! Lol

I mean as a Cleric I tried many Cleric powers, found my favorite ones, did lots of math, had a setup to maximize DPS, with the 3 encounters I felt did the most damage, another setup to heal, protect the team and not do so much damage, with astral shield and big heals... No matter my setup I almost always got last place in paingiver. Sad but true story. I love healing the team, one of the reasons I went as Cleric, but later on I wanted the best of both worlds lol!

I really liked damage over time powers, or some area of effect powers.

pr3stigex said:
@tigernuno its probably your rotations, you also have to put in a lot of effort, stay just ahead of the group and fight for your kills.

You're probably right, and the Cleric was faster than me at times, I got distracted. I just don't like to make dungeon runs a race to see who's faster. I like to take my sweet time, look for treasure, apreciate the interiors, the decorations, the colors, talk to my fellow team mates, say some jokes, etc.

At level 32 I'm not that experient as GWF, but today I have more powers than yesterday and I learn a little everyday. I'm still trying to find the best powers and best at-wills, sometimes it's confusing.

armadeonx · May 2016

Ah well if you're not there when the enemies are being attacked you're not really going to get points for it are you...

kuero21 · May 2016

Player lvls are scaled (down). The "lvl 22" cleric outdpsing you could be a lvl 70 cleric actually and therefore your lvl 34 GWF wont have a chance. Lvl 70's are melting through those low lvl dungeons and one shotting stuff by the dozens.

And you cant expect your cleric to hit top paingiver and top healer at the same time. If you want to hit the top dps you have to follow the dps paragon. Being a healer and following a healing paragon wont make you outdps a real dps player.
You just cant have both, either be a healer or a dps.

tigersclaw · May 2016

kuero21 said:
Player lvls are scaled (down). The "lvl 22" cleric outdpsing you could be a lvl 70 cleric actually and therefore your lvl 34 GWF wont have a chance. Lvl 70's are melting through those low lvl dungeons and one shotting stuff by the dozens.

And you cant expect your cleric to hit top paingiver and top healer at the same time. If you want to hit the top dps you have to follow the dps paragon. Being a healer and following a healing paragon wont make you outdps a real dps player.
You just cant have both, either be a healer or a dps.

I know they are scaled down. But I checked everyone's real level. I believe in that dungeon, Cragmire Crypts, all of us were scaled to level 19. They were both level 22, I was level 34. I know Clerics have 2 different paths.

kuero21 · May 2016

ah i meant feats, not paragon.

tigersclaw · May 2016

kuero21 said:
ah i meant feats, not paragon.

Oh yes I know there's one tree for the cleric more adequate to do DPS. When I realized my DPS was kinda poor, I started to invest in said tree. Guess what, I ran out of points pretty fast. Oh well.

I see myself as a support player. People love my haste, people love me to heal them, shield them, support them, revive them, etc. The only thing I can't do is top the paingiver charts lol. I still have some spells that do decent damage ocasionally, I can fight too. But I just can't compete with other classes for DPS. It's just the way it is.

Anyway, back to the main topic. If you read the title, "GWF DISCUSSION - WHAT ARE THE BEST PARAGON FEATS, STATS, POWERS?". If you care to answer, go ahead, if not, whatever floats your boat. I'd like to know what you people use, what are other GWF's favorite powers to use, encounters, at-wills, dailies, feats, etc. Let the debate begin.

kuero21 · May 2016

I actually dont understand why you even start such a discussion when your gwf isnt even lvl 70 yet. Being a lvl 34 you do not even have access yet to the most powerful skills.
On all my characters I tested all skills and powers myself, then decided which ones to use and which not. I see no point in copying other peoples builds. A copy will never be as good as the original and who wants to be a "copy" already anyway?
But I know other people do not bother about this so yeah... whatever.
I wont tell you what to use and how to play but here is a hint: In PVP: Defense> Offense.

cesar · May 2016

tigernuno said:

I know they are scaled down. But I checked everyone's real level. I believe in that dungeon, Cragmire Crypts, all of us were scaled to level 19. They were both level 22, I was level 34. I know Clerics have 2 different paths.

What are your feats and rotation?

tigersclaw · May 2016

kuero21 said:
I actually dont understand why you even start such a discussion when your gwf isnt even lvl 70 yet. Being a lvl 34 you do not even have access yet to the most powerful skills.
On all my characters I tested all skills and powers myself, then decided which ones to use and which not. I see no point in copying other peoples builds. A copy will never be as good as the original and who wants to be a "copy" already anyway?
But I know other people do not bother about this so yeah... whatever.
I wont tell you what to use and how to play but here is a hint: In PVP: Defense> Offense.

It's not about copying other people. It's about knowing how players with more experience build their character, starting rolls, fets, etc. so I build my character like them to do better, also it's about learning more.

I was level 34, yes, but I need to plan in advance because some feats are related to powers.

Anyway, no matter which level I am, I think it is an interesting debate for all levels, experient players and newbies alike. If you don't want to parcitipate, fine, last time I checked, it's a free forum with freedom of speech.

If you and armadeonx don't like my post, you have that right, just don't read it, go comment elsewhere. I never forced you to comment here.

cesar#6784 said:

What are your feats and rotation?

As for feats, I've been following Icydrake's build, mostly. My rotation keeps changing as I unlock new powers and experiment, I still haven't decided the best ones, hence this post, to learn more.

So far I really like Wicked Strike and Threatening Rush. I also like Sure Strike but it has to be left out cuz I only have room for 2.

I like Not That Fast, Frontline Surge, Restoring Strike. At level 45, still my encounter that does more damage at once is one of the first ones, Restoring Strike and it also heals for a small ammount.

I didn't like Battle Fury very much, when you first unlock it, just lasts 3 seconds, very short time. Seems like its damage boost is smaller than Daring Shout and Threatening Rush. The only thing I could think of that could make Battle Fury useful, is when I want to run very fast for some reason, to escape someone or reach somewhere faster than other classes. I can sprint twice with Battle Fury. This is the only reason that makes me think maybe I should put some points into the feat Restless Battle Fury. Not sure yet. Another reason to want to know what feats other experienced players use and what are their results, good or bad. What about you?

kuero21 · May 2016

I know its a free forum, but "free" also means that you have to deal with comments that you wont like. And I didn't forbid you to make posts. I never forced you to read my comments either.
Perhaps you should learn to take stuff in a neutral way (nothing I said was meant offensive). After all its supposed to be a debate.

armadeonx · May 2016

kuero21 said:
I know its a free forum, but "free" also means that you have to deal with comments that you wont like. And I didn't forbid you to make posts. I never forced you to read my comments either.
Perhaps you should learn to take stuff in a neutral way (nothing I said was meant offensive). After all its supposed to be a debate.

Agreed, if you start a debate then you're not just going to get a line of people agreeing with you, you're going to get opinions.

I don't know where @tigernuno got the impression that I had a problem with his post though, I've made 2 points so far:

1. You can't really call it a 'build' until you reach 70 due to the interactions of feats, powers, boons & gear - not all of the pieces are in place yet - the GWF doesn't really come into it's own until certain powers and feats have points in them.

2. In response to saying "I like to take my sweet time, look for treasure, apreciate the interiors, the decorations, the colors, talk to my fellow team mates, say some jokes, etc." I commented that you can't really complain about not topping paingiver if you're not at the front of the fighting.

Seeing as the initial point was "I'm getting out-dps'd by a DC", that comment is pretty relevant.

Some people infer offence at every opportunity. It's a discussion, we're discussing.

tigersclaw · May 2016

armadeonx said:

kuero21 said:
I know its a free forum, but "free" also means that you have to deal with comments that you wont like. And I didn't forbid you to make posts. I never forced you to read my comments either.
Perhaps you should learn to take stuff in a neutral way (nothing I said was meant offensive). After all its supposed to be a debate.
Agreed, if you start a debate then you're not just going to get a line of people agreeing with you, you're going to get opinions.

I don't know where @tigernuno got the impression that I had a problem with his post though, I've made 2 points so far:

1. You can't really call it a 'build' until you reach 70 due to the interactions of feats, powers, boons & gear - not all of the pieces are in place yet - the GWF doesn't really come into it's own until certain powers and feats have points in them.

2. In response to saying "I like to take my sweet time, look for treasure, apreciate the interiors, the decorations, the colors, talk to my fellow team mates, say some jokes, etc." I commented that you can't really complain about not topping paingiver if you're not at the front of the fighting.

Seeing as the initial point was "I'm getting out-dps'd by a DC", that comment is pretty relevant.

Some people infer offence at every opportunity. It's a discussion, we're discussing.

I replied with a message because I don't want to start a flame war in public, this forum is probably heavily moderated. If this was Facebook or Google+, then I would post in public everything I wrote in that message, since they don't have biased unfair moderation that interferes with freedom of speech, like most forums do (not just talking about this one).

Still waiting on GWFs who really want to debate and answer my initial question, though.

kuero21 · May 2016

armadeonx said:

Some people infer offence at every opportunity. It's a discussion, we're discussing.

Yeah, exactly this. I remember two years ago I responded to a girls/ womans thread in another forum and she called me out a troll just because I disagreed to her suggestion. "Go troll elsewhere, troll!!!"
Due to her behaviour I felt that this probably was the very first time that somebody did not agree with her.
Some people...

tigersclaw · May 2016

kuero21 said:

armadeonx said:

Some people infer offence at every opportunity. It's a discussion, we're discussing.

Yeah, exactly this. I remember two years ago I responded to a girls/ womans thread in another forum and she called me out a troll just because I disagreed to her suggestion. "Go troll elsewhere, troll!!!"
Due to her behaviour I felt that this probably was the very first time that somebody did not agree with her.
Some people...

I wonder what this comment has to do with my initial question. Thanks for your HUGE contribution to this GWF debate lol. Still waiting on GWFs who really want to debate and answer my initial question, though.

kuero21 · May 2016

I already contributed more than enough to "answer" your question, you just did not seem to like it.
The off-topic posts are kind of your own fault, you were the first person that went off-topic with your cleric not hitting the paingiver charts and then you felt you had to teach us in rules and behaviour.
And honestly I dont think many others will be going to contribute much more to this debate because on these forums have been more than enough of such class, feat and power debates. You might want to look at those.

This Viper guy once shared his build in form of his "King of all GWF" thread. Maybe you should check this one out.

cesar · May 2016

tigernuno said:

As for feats, I've been following Icydrake's build, mostly. My rotation keeps changing as I unlock new powers and experiment, I still haven't decided the best ones, hence this post, to learn more.

So far I really like Wicked Strike and Threatening Rush. I also like Sure Strike but it has to be left out cuz I only have room for 2.

I like Not That Fast, Frontline Surge, Restoring Strike. At level 45, still my encounter that does more damage at once is one of the first ones, Restoring Strike and it also heals for a small ammount.

I didn't like Battle Fury very much, when you first unlock it, just lasts 3 seconds, very short time. Seems like its damage boost is smaller than Daring Shout and Threatening Rush. The only thing I could think of that could make Battle Fury useful, is when I want to run very fast for some reason, to escape someone or reach somewhere faster than other classes. I can sprint twice with Battle Fury. This is the only reason that makes me think maybe I should put some points into the feat Restless Battle Fury. Not sure yet. Another reason to want to know what feats other experienced players use and what are their results, good or bad. What about you?

Icedrake's is a PvP build; if you want to top your DPS on PvE go for Lazalia's. I once met a PvP GWF with an ilevel about 200 points higher than mine on Throne of the Dwarven Gods... I doubled his score (and my build is not optimized yet). If your real focus is PvP, do not expect to top charts on PvE... You can't have both.

ltsmithneko · May 2016

tigernuno said:

I wonder what this comment has to do with my initial question. Thanks for your HUGE contribution to this GWF debate lol. Still waiting on GWFs who really want to debate and answer my initial question, though.

Already Answered, in the other post I showed you a link and it shows you the best feats and powers ect

I don't feel like posting a vid showing you, since peeps will whine about me showing off meuh ego, and atm I really don't feeling like arguing... :T

tigersclaw · May 2016

ltsmithneko said:
Already Answered, in the other post I showed you a link and it shows you the best feats and powers ect I don't feel like posting a vid showing you, since peeps will whine about me showing off meuh ego, and atm I really don't feeling like arguing... :T

I know you answered and sent me Lia's build, which I read a little from time to time. What you talk about is a problem with the human race. People won't recognize the good things you do, but are always happy to talk bad about your mistakes.

People are that toxic on this forum? Wow. Moderators should keep the trolls, haters and whiners at bay then.

So show off your ego all you want, it's good for you, pay no attention to the jealous people.

As the saying goes, "People Only Rain On Your Parade Because They Are Jealous of Your Sun and Tired of Their Shade". Sad but true story.

If you meant posting a video of you playing, or posting a screenshot of your personal feat tree, you can post here in public. If you prefer not to post in public, you can always send me in private, to avoid the intoxication from the public.

cesar#6784 said:
Icedrake's is a PvP build; if you want to top your DPS on PvE go for Lazalia's. I once met a PvP GWF with an ilevel about 200 points higher than mine on Throne of the Dwarven Gods... I doubled his score (and my build is not optimized yet). If your real focus is PvP, do not expect to top charts on PvE... You can't have both.

I know, but I read somewhere going with a PVP build only means a 30% loss in DPS compared to a PVE build. Also, an experient GWF has been giving me advice and told me we already hit hard, so we don't really need extra damage, and we can always compensate with adequate gear.

I've been doing Pit Stop. When I was level 51, I did 1,300,000 damage, while a Level 63 PVE GWF did 1,000,000. I even sent him a message asking how did I do more damage than him. I'm not sure if these kind of scores can also happen in endgame but I hope so. I mean, is it my playstyle and his playstyle? It's not the only time it happened. Also in Pit Stop, I did more damage than a few PVE GWFs at higher levels than me quite a few times.

In another Pit Stop I did 1,000,000 while a Paladin around 15 levels higher than me only did 500,000. I did more damage than many classes at level 60, even Trickster Rogues who were level 60, while I was under level 50. I was quite happy with the results. If I can do this well against other classes now, what will happen at level 60 and 70, when a GWF even shines more than now?

rinat114 · May 2016

I was nagged to comment on this thread, so I will for the sake of it. The thread is ridiculous. No offense, you're not 70, parsing your damage shouldn't even be a thing. If you think you can be viable in both PVP and PVE and do great at both while playing this class, you might want to switch to a DC or something, it's simply non-existent. Any PVP GWF (sup Lancer) who says IV feated into PVP only does 30% less than a fully specced PVE SM GWF is smoking something and it's none of the good stuff. This can only be true in very specific situations (single-target only oriented content for example, in which case the damage might even out if the GWF is extremely good).
There are so many incompetent people in this game commenting with confidence, it's very difficult to tell if they know wth they're on about or not. Reading and believeing anything someone happened to "write" on the forum without numbers to back them up or a decent explanation other than "I've seen this one guy one time..." is a huge mistake. Take that as a personal tip from me to you.

By all means, if you want to theorycraft, at least get to max level. It is relevant. Comparing your performance against pugs/the general casual population of the game might lead you to believe certain things that are certainly not true. Level up, find a good guild with worthy players and learn. That poor level 63 GWF you found has no idea why he's doing poor damage and he will probably never know. There are a lot of expectations vs. reality scnearios in this game with the general population and very little to work with. As sad as it is - it's also the truth.

Peace out.

kuero21 · May 2016

The dmg queen has spoken.

armadeonx · May 2016

This guy actually sent me a forum message breaking points down into little pieces so he could disagree with them out of context, contradicting some of his earlier statements and calling me names - lol.

I'll copy and paste just one excerpt below for your amusement:
quote from me: "1. You can't really call it a 'build' until you reach 70 due to the interactions of feats, powers, boons & gear - not all of the pieces are in place yet - the GWF doesn't really come into it's own until certain powers and feats have points in them."

His reply "Oh really? I didn't know you copyrighted the word "build" and only you know its true meaning. What would you call it then, Master? At level 70 it's a build, but at level 69 you just call it a fishtank? A Duracell Bunny? A Playmobil? Enlighten me oh wise one!"

See what I mean?

kuero21 · May 2016

lol... Yeah I know what you mean.
This kinda reminders me of the Gamer logic: "If I'm better than you, you're noob. If you're better than me, you're a hacker. If everyone is better than me, I'm lagging".

armadeonx · May 2016

hahaha so true!

GWF discussion - What are the best paragon feats, stats, powers?

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