lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
I agree with the OP here.
Fair enough if you are in a guild run or your soloing dailies etc, you can play your character however you like. But if you join a public queue then you know you have a role to fill - if you're a GF you're being placed in there as a tank, and you owe it to your team to play your role, or are you expecting the CW to tank? Or if your a DC, you need to be able to heal a little. Otherwise the whole team suffers because one or two people are being selfish.
To the ppl who are saying that "we should be able to play our toons however we like", well doesn't that go for your unfortunate team mates as well??? Why should they have to play roles that they aren't suited to (and placed in the team to do) or waste their time just because you don't want to play the role that you were put there for.
Guilty as charged. I'm a cong GF but don't do super high DPS. I do agro but I can't turn on Knight's Valor (dmg intercept) or I'm dead in seconds.
Because we started playing them when this game required support classes or the party would wipe in 5 minutes.
This game is streamlined now to just burn with DPS, so everyone is trying to get as much DPS as possible.
huh, I'm surprised to hear this. I played conqueror GF until I was 2.5k ilvl and I tanked everything from KR to ECC legit. I think this is an issue of the party. I will admit that if my party just stood around taking damage then my KV would kill me, but if everyone stays aside and let the mobs stay with me I can kite and block. Mind you this a time when I only had 40% DR.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Guilty as charged. I'm a cong GF but don't do super high DPS. I do agro but I can't turn on Knight's Valor (dmg intercept) or I'm dead in seconds.
Don't you top DPS in guild Dragonflights? (sez the GWF....) :-)
Heya I think that's because lunge has a 65 foot range and I fly to empowers pretty fast. I'm almost always the first person on those things. My base DPS is not that great. When I do guild dungeons, I'm usually 3rd in paingiver (or less).
I've got a 3k GF and a 3.3k CW and if you're dying because you're expecting control from CWs it just means you're bad at playing GF.
And if I die expecting heals from a DC I'm a bad GF? Or if you die expecting agro from a GF you're a bad CW? My point is other classes have been breaking away from their core-roles, maybe because of lack of demand like you pointed out with control.
I noticed in alot of the new content, control is not very useful anymore so who's to blame you for going the pure DPS route. Not alot of new content requires tanking either. See the flow here?
It seems you havent played tiamat or edemo created completely with random players.
I already had all the Tiamat boons before the new queue system so I got 100% of my linu's from Tiamat pugs. Back in the 'ole days I tanked 1 edemo once, and it was more walking in circles than tanking.
I've got a 3k GF and a 3.3k CW and if you're dying because you're expecting control from CWs it just means you're bad at playing GF.
And if I die expecting heals from a DC I'm a bad GF? Or if you die expecting agro from a GF you're a bad CW? My point is other classes have been breaking away from their core-roles, maybe because of lack of demand like you pointed out with control.
I noticed in alot of the new content, control is not very useful anymore so who's to blame you for going the pure DPS route. Not alot of new content requires tanking either. See the flow here?
Control is useless in ALL content because mobs are control resistant/immune and bosses are immune to control. You as a GF create massive amounts of threat when you so much HAMSTER, should be virtually invincible with your shield up, and can have a class feature that makes you immune for four seconds (when boss fights take 30 seconds to a minute). So if you're losing aggro to DPS enough that they're dropping like flies and you're dying because your DC can't heal you fast enough ... yes you're bad at playing GF. Because you have all the tools to solve those problems by yourself whereas CWs cannot improve their control enough for it to matter so it's more optimal to spec their characters to deal more damage.
How to adapt? Unslot all healing spells as a DC, bc all the OPs and GFs in PuG runs are 'DDs' or cant hold aggro.
A GWF insulted me bc I did not heal him, when I played my DC. I told him 'watch this', slotted AS and BH, chasted 1 at will, one encounter, had aggro and died in seconds. I cant count the times I cursed chaotic growth on my CW, bc I had to 'tank' Demo with my CW.
While a rightous DC is on of the best support classes atm and deals decent dmg, minimizes incoming dmg and does heal some, 'tank' classes that dont tank and complain about the lack of heal from a DC can take their rightous indignation and put it were the sun does not shine.
You can adapt to the group you find, but fact is, if you dont have a PvP build and you dont have a tank, you die as a DC, if you heal.
Being that my main is a Iron Vanguard, Protector. I can see your point in someways. But try if you will to understand this . I have almost every class in the game that I play. And running my daily takes me two times longer that it does on any of my other toons.And every time I see them do something to better that problem I get to see on this forum all the nerf this nerf that people come crawling out of the wood work . That time issue is the main reason alot of the GF have become a Sword Master , Conqueror build. Why because if you cant beat them then you join them. See some talking about how we got to much burst damage without even wondering why that might be. Well I will tell you because when we lower our shield we have a very short amount of time to do what damange we can and get our shield back up or we die. And being that our shield only blocks 80% and to the front only if you are to slow or turning out of position well thats it you die.I have toons that can one hit for one million damage while I have seen the Conqueror do on hit 80k damage sorry if that is to much for some. The issue you find with the clerics in this game was because of another class that they could work with to give us a perma bubble . Both them and that class have had the nerf put into place to stop that from being such a thing. Only time will tell how that will effect each. Perhaps the OP will finally have a reason to use that shield I have to live or die behind. Dont take me wrong I have never been a fan of nerfs . As I see it they are balancing toons this year to make for better PVE play.They have said as much. I am sure at some point they will also get around to doing the same in PVP which hold the most nerf happy crew I have ever met. The only way I ever see them having a chance to fix both sides on this game is to seperate them completely. Anything being done today to fix the PVE should stay only on the PVE side .And the same with PVP any Nerfs ,Buffs or any other needed for balance should stay only on the PVP side. It is time for use to stop kidding ourselves and think what works for PVE also works for PVP .We have a very long list to prove this is not the case. We do not have a class in this game that hasnt gotten a nerf do to PVP .Either seperate it or remove it all together. And call the WHAMBULANCE AND TAKE THOSE NERF BABIES WITH YEAH.
I have sm conq gf and i always try to do best damage i can. I mean why not, since i can still generate lot of aggro and buff party with itf. It would be stupid to just block and take hit's, when you can deal more damage other ways and still tank.
The way i look at this... normally its said clearly what the party is looking the party for tank/heal ( i.e. LFM GF/OP TANK) taking up the role means expected to be able/prepared to fill in that role. There are no excuse to this , its pretty plain and simple if playing a non tank/heal just don't take up that role to join the party.
As for how the job is it done is depends on individual creativity and party synergy. its ok as long as able to do the job .
Be prepared for worse scenario, As a Tank need prepared for bad/no healing situation where i need to use daily/pots to heal... healer probably prepare for bad/soft tank focus buff and heal on tank more than other members . DPS will need prepare to avoid AOE and critical blows from mobs which i believe its standard concept of a party.
The problem is that the new q system says "required tank,heal, 3 dps" yet often players who hate to be the mobs target get queued in the tank slot, or paladins/gfs with full crit/power gear and 40%DR and 0 sloted def.skills,boons...
actually i once got queued n a NEW(could see players accepting) instance as healer (rogue rogue rogue guardianf me) while being full prot geared,speced.
so im actually not sure if current system does not simply count any paladin as tank/healer and any gf as tank/dps unrelated to his spec.
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
The problem is that the new q system says "required tank,heal, 3 dps" yet often players who hate to be the mobs target get queued in the tank slot, or paladins/gfs with full crit/power gear and 40%DR and 0 sloted def.skills,boons...
actually i once got queued n a NEW(could see players accepting) instance as healer (rogue rogue rogue guardianf me) while being full prot geared,speced.
so im actually not sure if current system does not simply count any paladin as tank/healer and any gf as tank/dps unrelated to his spec.
So when I see things like this, I get upset that people are still trying to force GFs who spec for DPS/conqueror into a purely tanking role (for their own selfish reasons) when DCs have had the option of going a DPS for some time now.
If you don't like how many of us GFs are playing now, ask your quild to pull a alt tank out of the closed and be your personal agro-pet/buff-bot for an hour. For 3.5k il teams, there isn't much tanking to be done, so you invest time and $ in a toon that's useless 90% except being a agro-pet and buff-bot. It's the direction this game is headed.
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
If they take damage off the GF's, then they better increase our threat, otherwise the whiney DPSers will have a QQ when we can't keep aggro and they get killed.
0
arandompandaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 107Arc User
How to adapt? Unslot all healing spells as a DC, bc all the OPs and GFs in PuG runs are 'DDs' or cant hold aggro.
A GWF insulted me bc I did not heal him, when I played my DC. I told him 'watch this', slotted AS and BH, chasted 1 at will, one encounter, had aggro and died in seconds. I cant count the times I cursed chaotic growth on my CW, bc I had to 'tank' Demo with my CW.
While a rightous DC is on of the best support classes atm and deals decent dmg, minimizes incoming dmg and does heal some, 'tank' classes that dont tank and complain about the lack of heal from a DC can take their rightous indignation and put it were the sun does not shine.
You can adapt to the group you find, but fact is, if you dont have a PvP build and you dont have a tank, you die as a DC, if you heal.
The key for me if this happens is to play like a TR. Dart in, hit, dart out. Even a DC with no stamina boons can typically get 3 back-to-back slides in if that many are really needed. It's like slotting a third passive like Prophetic Action but with faster refresh time than PA gives. I slide, attack, slide, attack, slide, attack. I usually slot Astral Seal. I don't bother with Divine Glow since it won't proc weapon enchants.
With Burning Guidance I quickly learned to take this superaction-gameplay style even if I do have a tank with aggro or a rare CW bothering to control. There have been times when that was the ONLY thing that saved my butt when everyone else in the party was busy dps-ing (typically PUG parties with very low overall dps) but I was the one who got aggro. Slide-immunity - can really be taken to a level most DCs don't bother to utilize. To this day I've never seen any YouTube videos up of DC's playing their toon in a way that maximizes the class' Sliding Damage / CC Immunity potential. Maybe PvP clerics do but since I don't play PvP in NW I can't say.
Post edited by arandompanda on
0
arandompandaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 107Arc User
I've got a 3k GF and a 3.3k CW and if you're dying because you're expecting control from CWs it just means you're bad at playing GF.
And if I die expecting heals from a DC I'm a bad GF? Or if you die expecting agro from a GF you're a bad CW? My point is other classes have been breaking away from their core-roles, maybe because of lack of demand like you pointed out with control.
I noticed in alot of the new content, control is not very useful anymore so who's to blame you for going the pure DPS route. Not alot of new content requires tanking either. See the flow here?
Control is useless in ALL content because mobs are control resistant/immune and bosses are immune to control. ...edit....whereas CWs cannot improve their control enough for it to matter so it's more optimal to spec their characters to deal more damage.
This is more confirmation of why the game is becoming a DPS-oriented quick-pickup game for casuals. Even "support" classes now are better fit for team play with a dps build rather than focusing on "nice but not necessary" features. DPS is the one feature that every team can't do without. It's possible to clear content without anyone ever using CC or healing or holding Aggro. Fluff features like tanking, CC or healing become necessary only if dps is lacking. It's why I switched to being a DPS Cleric and DPS CW on both of my mains.
Post edited by arandompanda on
0
arandompandaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 107Arc User
Yes, the game is broken because DCs and GFs can do more damage than Strikers. Hopefully this is remedied soon.
This is one area of the game I wish Cryptic would just drop though I know that will never happen. It's a hold over from 4E D&D but the MMO is now using 5E for creating content. It gives the impression the roleplay options for each class is more restricted than it actually is in practice. The MMO has clearly gone down the 'create your toon the way you want to play' direction moreso than a strict trinity only path. So you get striker tanks, striker controllers, tank Barbarians (GWF) and striker DCs (which is what my DC is - every feat I took boost my dps. I let my encounters do any buffing if that's needed).
I don't want DCs nerfed. It must be one of the most constantly nerfed classes in the game. CWs have never been as heavily targeted mod after mod as have DCs. Seems like most every Mod there are calls for nerfing their damage because support classes shouldn't be allowed to do anything other than support.
I've got a 3k GF and a 3.3k CW and if you're dying because you're expecting control from CWs it just means you're bad at playing GF.
And if I die expecting heals from a DC I'm a bad GF? Or if you die expecting agro from a GF you're a bad CW? My point is other classes have been breaking away from their core-roles, maybe because of lack of demand like you pointed out with control.
I noticed in alot of the new content, control is not very useful anymore so who's to blame you for going the pure DPS route. Not alot of new content requires tanking either. See the flow here?
Control is useless in ALL content because mobs are control resistant/immune and bosses are immune to control. ...edit....whereas CWs cannot improve their control enough for it to matter so it's more optimal to spec their characters to deal more damage.
This is more confirmation of why the game is becoming a DPS-oriented quick-pickup game for casuals. Even "support" classes now are better fit for team play with a dps build rather than focusing on "nice but not necessary" features. DPS is the one feature that every team can't do without. It's possible to clear content without anyone ever using CC or healing or holding Aggro. Fluff features like tanking, CC or healing become necessary only if dps is lacking. It's why I switched to being a DPS Cleric and DPS CW on both of my mains.
Just bc 90% of the community dont know, how to play, does not mean, that DPS builds are the best. Best GF for speedruns, buff GF. Best DC for speedruns rightous DC using buff/ debuff skills. With decent gear, you can even squeze some dmg from your DC/ GF, but thats not your main role.
Watch some speedkill videos. They use the buff/ debuff mechanics and the result is in another league, than 99% of your PuG runs. TBH if I am not lucky and the right people are online, they are in another league, than most of my premade runs, too.^^
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
Speed runs generally suck.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Just bc 90% of the community dont know, how to play, does not mean, that DPS builds are the best
I see this a lot and I finally have to comment on it. Nothing personal.
Players saying that most people suck or don't know how to play, or don't know how to play their class, or some other unsubstantiated mass-slander used from an invented position of authority like they knew someone once is not only insulting to other players (90 percent of them in fact, LOL), it's not very rational. That one that always kills me is like: "I knew Azrael..." so my opinions are automatic facts! erm, no..
I mean, if so many people say it, but the ratio is only 1/10 for 'good players,' suffice to say some of the people using this system are almost certainly part of the 'don't know how to play' 90% population, right?
The elitist-attitude in a game so simple just boggles my mind. 2 passive, 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 2 at-wills--give 'er take. And skill trees even more simple then some NES (Nintendo Entertainment System 1983) games from back in the day. If you took out the bugs, I'd say there is less theory-crafting in this game then Diablo 2 from the 1990s. So can we all just be players that enjoy the same game and cut out the elitist snobbery please? We're here to have fun.
Post edited by deathbeez on
0
cromejohnsenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 207Arc User
A bis DPS Cleric will not do as much damage as a bis traditional DPS class like a GWF or HR. If it happens then yes they're messing their rotations up and not playing their class to max efficiency.
Also another note DPS Clerics don't bring all DPS skills when in groups... They buff... When clearing trash it's usually Chains, Astral Shield (if with GF), and Divine Glow.
Swap out BTS for Chains for boss fights.
Crying nerf for DC damage to be nerfed is blasphemous they are perfectly fine with where they're at right now. I can't speak for GF as I don't know of any DPS ones or have played with any but to my understanding from reading and watching videos, yeah they may need toned down.
why is that ? You do not want to finish an annoying dungeon which you have completet around 5k times faster than 15 min?
If I go into a dungeon, it is because I want to go into a dungeon.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Just bc 90% of the community dont know, how to play, does not mean, that DPS builds are the best
I see this a lot and I finally have to comment on it. Nothing personal.
Players saying that most people suck or don't know how to play, or don't know how to play their class, or some other unsubstantiated mass-slander used from an invented position of authority like they knew someone once is not only insulting to other players (90 percent of them in fact, LOL), it's not very rational. That one that always kills me is like: "I knew Azrael..." so my opinions are automatic facts! erm, no..
I mean, if so many people say it, but the ratio is only 1/10 for 'good players,' suffice to say some of the people using this system are almost certainly part of the 'don't know how to play' 90% population, right?
The elitist-attitude in a game so simple just boggles my mind. 2 passive, 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 2 at-wills--give 'er take. And skill trees even more simple then some NES (Nintendo Entertainment System 1983) games from back in the day. If you took out the bugs, I'd say there is less theory-crafting in this game then Diablo 2 from the 1990s. So can we all just be players that enjoy the same game and cut out the elitist snobbery please? We're here to have fun.
I just did PoM with a DC that did more DPS then the entire party combined w/ me in it. I don't feel to overpowered after watching that display. Whoa.
You just answered your own complain about elitist snobbery.
I dont think, that I know everything, but I know how to read and talk to ppl. Many ppl dont even use the forums. Of these using them, many cant wont find the best advice and build accordingly.
How many ppl claim, that DD build is the best, when everyone with some skill knows, that buff/ debuff stacking combined with dps is the best way to go.
3 ppl with the right class, gear and build can finish the 2nd and 3rd phase in 30 seconds. A maxed premade in seconds. How many EDemo runs have you done? How many of them were done in less then 30 seconds? If you run full premade with a great group, good for you. If you run PuG, you know, why I claim, that most ppl dont know how to build and play for max impact.
Slide-immunity - can really be taken to a level most DCs don't bother to utilize. To this day I've never seen any YouTube videos up of DC's playing their toon in a way that maximizes the class' Sliding Damage / CC Immunity potential. Maybe PvP clerics do but since I don't play PvP in NW I can't say.
I have every stamina related boon in the game and Gladiators Guile. I use my dodges pretty crazily in dungeons. I don't PVP though. I agree that a well timed dodge is a real Bacon Saver and I try to make the most use of it as possible. I could do more I guess but I never really felt the need to add more stamina regen to neck/rings/belt since it has a relatively low cap for diminishing returns if i understand correctly.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
I've got a 3k GF and a 3.3k CW and if you're dying because you're expecting control from CWs it just means you're bad at playing GF.
And if I die expecting heals from a DC I'm a bad GF? Or if you die expecting agro from a GF you're a bad CW? My point is other classes have been breaking away from their core-roles, maybe because of lack of demand like you pointed out with control.
I noticed in alot of the new content, control is not very useful anymore so who's to blame you for going the pure DPS route. Not alot of new content requires tanking either. See the flow here?
Control is useless in ALL content because mobs are control resistant/immune and bosses are immune to control. ...edit....whereas CWs cannot improve their control enough for it to matter so it's more optimal to spec their characters to deal more damage.
This is more confirmation of why the game is becoming a DPS-oriented quick-pickup game for casuals. Even "support" classes now are better fit for team play with a dps build rather than focusing on "nice but not necessary" features. DPS is the one feature that every team can't do without. It's possible to clear content without anyone ever using CC or healing or holding Aggro. Fluff features like tanking, CC or healing become necessary only if dps is lacking. It's why I switched to being a DPS Cleric and DPS CW on both of my mains.
Just bc 90% of the community dont know, how to play, does not mean, that DPS builds are the best. Best GF for speedruns, buff GF. Best DC for speedruns rightous DC using buff/ debuff skills. With decent gear, you can even squeze some dmg from your DC/ GF, but thats not your main role.
Watch some speedkill videos. They use the buff/ debuff mechanics and the result is in another league, than 99% of your PuG runs. TBH if I am not lucky and the right people are online, they are in another league, than most of my premade runs, too.^^
I never claim a DC dps build is the best righteous build. That isn't my point. The best build for me in teams is the one that will keep me playing the game and continuing to spend money occasionally in the cash shop.
The point I make is that
1. Cryptic uses the Feat trees to simulate dual and triple classing. Especially since this game doesn't have Prestige classes it's the closest approximation NW has to implementing a well-loved table-top D&D tradition.
2. If the options Cryptic provides allow for such class diversity then some people - typically a minority - will choose to take it. You don't see many pure DC Strikers running around because most players don't like the drawbacks to choosing this route. Most DCs are either pure buffbot (leader) or a hybrid of the two (buffbot/striker).
This thread is really about disagreement on where a game should be on the scale of defined (ie unique) class play vs. roleplay build diversity for the best team playing experience and there are threads on tabletop forums arguing exactly pro and con for this same divide. This argument isn't unique to NW. It happens because people disagree on what delivers the "best" overall experience for group play in roleplaying games.
There's good arguments for both sides.
I personally tend to come down on the side of more diversity within a class even if that means to others it homogenizes the 'uniqueness' of a class' role in a team setting. There is something to be said in that the more unique the gameplay feel of one's class and assuming the content (whether table-top or online) can make that uniqueness feel necessary in group content there are people who swear that's the "best" way rpgs should be designed.
I don't agree with the above sentiment but I understand where those folks are coming from. I lean clearly in the direction of more diverse roles within a class - even if that means overturning the stated 'label' (example: DC Leader turned almost completely into a DC Striker). It may not be the "best" for some other people regarding teamplay but it helps keep me in this game and spending real $ on it. It's my character, my money spent and Cryptic does permit that kind of build diversity within a team setting.
If I had my way I wish *every* class in this game had that kind of diversity.
Comments
Fair enough if you are in a guild run or your soloing dailies etc, you can play your character however you like. But if you join a public queue then you know you have a role to fill - if you're a GF you're being placed in there as a tank, and you owe it to your team to play your role, or are you expecting the CW to tank? Or if your a DC, you need to be able to heal a little. Otherwise the whole team suffers because one or two people are being selfish.
To the ppl who are saying that "we should be able to play our toons however we like", well doesn't that go for your unfortunate team mates as well??? Why should they have to play roles that they aren't suited to (and placed in the team to do) or waste their time just because you don't want to play the role that you were put there for.
I think that's because lunge has a 65 foot range and I fly to empowers pretty fast.
I'm almost always the first person on those things.
My base DPS is not that great.
When I do guild dungeons, I'm usually 3rd in paingiver (or less).
My point is other classes have been breaking away from their core-roles, maybe because of lack of demand like you pointed out with control.
I noticed in alot of the new content, control is not very useful anymore so who's to blame you for going the pure DPS route. Not alot of new content requires tanking either. See the flow here?
Back in the 'ole days
I tanked 1 edemo once, and it was more walking in circles than tanking.
A GWF insulted me bc I did not heal him, when I played my DC. I told him 'watch this', slotted AS and BH, chasted 1 at will, one encounter, had aggro and died in seconds. I cant count the times I cursed chaotic growth on my CW, bc I had to 'tank' Demo with my CW.
While a rightous DC is on of the best support classes atm and deals decent dmg, minimizes incoming dmg and does heal some, 'tank' classes that dont tank and complain about the lack of heal from a DC can take their rightous indignation and put it were the sun does not shine.
You can adapt to the group you find, but fact is, if you dont have a PvP build and you dont have a tank, you die as a DC, if you heal.
It would be stupid to just block and take hit's, when you can deal more damage other ways and still tank.
There are no excuse to this , its pretty plain and simple if playing a non tank/heal just don't take up that role to join the party.
As for how the job is it done is depends on individual creativity and party synergy. its ok as long as able to do the job .
Be prepared for worse scenario,
As a Tank need prepared for bad/no healing situation where i need to use daily/pots to heal... healer probably prepare for bad/soft tank focus buff and heal on tank more than other members . DPS will need prepare to avoid AOE and critical blows from mobs which i believe its standard concept of a party.
actually i once got queued n a NEW(could see players accepting) instance as healer (rogue rogue rogue guardianf me) while being full prot geared,speced.
so im actually not sure if current system does not simply count any paladin as tank/healer and any gf as tank/dps unrelated to his spec.
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12824320
So when I see things like this, I get upset that people are still trying to force GFs who spec for DPS/conqueror into a purely tanking role (for their own selfish reasons) when DCs have had the option of going a DPS for some time now.
If you don't like how many of us GFs are playing now, ask your quild to pull a alt tank out of the closed and be your personal agro-pet/buff-bot for an hour. For 3.5k il teams, there isn't much tanking to be done, so you invest time and $ in a toon that's useless 90% except being a agro-pet and buff-bot. It's the direction this game is headed.
The key for me if this happens is to play like a TR. Dart in, hit, dart out. Even a DC with no stamina boons can typically get 3 back-to-back slides in if that many are really needed. It's like slotting a third passive like Prophetic Action but with faster refresh time than PA gives. I slide, attack, slide, attack, slide, attack. I usually slot Astral Seal. I don't bother with Divine Glow since it won't proc weapon enchants.
With Burning Guidance I quickly learned to take this superaction-gameplay style even if I do have a tank with aggro or a rare CW bothering to control. There have been times when that was the ONLY thing that saved my butt when everyone else in the party was busy dps-ing (typically PUG parties with very low overall dps) but I was the one who got aggro. Slide-immunity - can really be taken to a level most DCs don't bother to utilize. To this day I've never seen any YouTube videos up of DC's playing their toon in a way that maximizes the class' Sliding Damage / CC Immunity potential. Maybe PvP clerics do but since I don't play PvP in NW I can't say.
This is more confirmation of why the game is becoming a DPS-oriented quick-pickup game for casuals. Even "support" classes now are better fit for team play with a dps build rather than focusing on "nice but not necessary" features. DPS is the one feature that every team can't do without. It's possible to clear content without anyone ever using CC or healing or holding Aggro. Fluff features like tanking, CC or healing become necessary only if dps is lacking. It's why I switched to being a DPS Cleric and DPS CW on both of my mains.
I don't want DCs nerfed. It must be one of the most constantly nerfed classes in the game. CWs have never been as heavily targeted mod after mod as have DCs. Seems like most every Mod there are calls for nerfing their damage because support classes shouldn't be allowed to do anything other than support.
Watch some speedkill videos. They use the buff/ debuff mechanics and the result is in another league, than 99% of your PuG runs. TBH if I am not lucky and the right people are online, they are in another league, than most of my premade runs, too.^^
Players saying that most people suck or don't know how to play, or don't know how to play their class, or some other unsubstantiated mass-slander used from an invented position of authority like they knew someone once is not only insulting to other players (90 percent of them in fact, LOL), it's not very rational. That one that always kills me is like: "I knew Azrael..." so my opinions are automatic facts! erm, no..
I mean, if so many people say it, but the ratio is only 1/10 for 'good players,' suffice to say some of the people using this system are almost certainly part of the 'don't know how to play' 90% population, right?
The elitist-attitude in a game so simple just boggles my mind.
2 passive, 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 2 at-wills--give 'er take.
And skill trees even more simple then some NES (Nintendo Entertainment System 1983) games from back in the day. If you took out the bugs, I'd say there is less theory-crafting in this game then Diablo 2 from the 1990s.
So can we all just be players that enjoy the same game and cut out the elitist snobbery please?
We're here to have fun.
Also another note DPS Clerics don't bring all DPS skills when in groups... They buff... When clearing trash it's usually Chains, Astral Shield (if with GF), and Divine Glow.
Swap out BTS for Chains for boss fights.
Crying nerf for DC damage to be nerfed is blasphemous they are perfectly fine with where they're at right now. I can't speak for GF as I don't know of any DPS ones or have played with any but to my understanding from reading and watching videos, yeah they may need toned down.
Alts:
Saxy Healz Paladin (Oathkeeper) [Xbox and PC]
Saxon Ranger (Warden)
Yuri Wizard (Thaumaturge)
Member of the guild: Legacy (Xbox) and Strawberry Yakuza (PC)
I don't feel to overpowered after watching that display. Whoa.
I dont think, that I know everything, but I know how to read and talk to ppl. Many ppl dont even use the forums. Of these using them, many cant wont find the best advice and build accordingly.
How many ppl claim, that DD build is the best, when everyone with some skill knows, that buff/ debuff stacking combined with dps is the best way to go.
3 ppl with the right class, gear and build can finish the 2nd and 3rd phase in 30 seconds. A maxed premade in seconds. How many EDemo runs have you done? How many of them were done in less then 30 seconds? If you run full premade with a great group, good for you. If you run PuG, you know, why I claim, that most ppl dont know how to build and play for max impact.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
I never claim a DC dps build is the best righteous build. That isn't my point. The best build for me in teams is the one that will keep me playing the game and continuing to spend money occasionally in the cash shop.
The point I make is that
1. Cryptic uses the Feat trees to simulate dual and triple classing. Especially since this game doesn't have Prestige classes it's the closest approximation NW has to implementing a well-loved table-top D&D tradition.
2. If the options Cryptic provides allow for such class diversity then some people - typically a minority - will choose to take it. You don't see many pure DC Strikers running around because most players don't like the drawbacks to choosing this route. Most DCs are either pure buffbot (leader) or a hybrid of the two (buffbot/striker).
This thread is really about disagreement on where a game should be on the scale of defined (ie unique) class play vs. roleplay build diversity for the best team playing experience and there are threads on tabletop forums arguing exactly pro and con for this same divide. This argument isn't unique to NW. It happens because people disagree on what delivers the "best" overall experience for group play in roleplaying games.
There's good arguments for both sides.
I personally tend to come down on the side of more diversity within a class even if that means to others it homogenizes the 'uniqueness' of a class' role in a team setting. There is something to be said in that the more unique the gameplay feel of one's class and assuming the content (whether table-top or online) can make that uniqueness feel necessary in group content there are people who swear that's the "best" way rpgs should be designed.
I don't agree with the above sentiment but I understand where those folks are coming from. I lean clearly in the direction of more diverse roles within a class - even if that means overturning the stated 'label' (example: DC Leader turned almost completely into a DC Striker). It may not be the "best" for some other people regarding teamplay but it helps keep me in this game and spending real $ on it. It's my character, my money spent and Cryptic does permit that kind of build diversity within a team setting.
If I had my way I wish *every* class in this game had that kind of diversity.