The April fool's joke that is not

cesar · April 2016

thefabricant said:

As for immunity, nobody needs it, the game is really easy and rather than complaining about the lack of immunity, you should adapt to the change and learn to dodge red.

Learn to dodge red... Ha! I agree on the fact that many people do not dodge. However, I constantly keep an eye on AoEs, timing them and all, to dodge when appropriate. My toon, however, runs out of stamina rather quickly, and its regeneration sucks, so after a bit it gets pretty hard to suddenly dodge.

Worst thing is sometimes it doesn't even dodge in time simply because the game does not respond promptly to the controller's input. And there are other times when I sucessfully dodge and BAM! Dead cause my toon got shifted back a bit against my input. And I'm like, WT...?????

armadeonx · April 2016

I see this dodge thing mentioned all the time - people will of course get used to dodging again as they will have no choice, it's just at the moment it's completely unnecessary.

Stacking stamina is always a good thing - it helps a lot in solo play if you don't have a tanky build too.

thefiresidecat · April 2016

thefabricant said:

thefiresidecat said:
@manyvengeance I'm with you. I think the pally is going to not be a tank so much as a tankish healer.. I think the dc is going to be irrelevant but will still be required for dungeons that arent premade, so you'll end up with people STILL quitting dungeons because no pally.

no balance just broken.
@thefiresidecat I come from the perspective of someone at pretty much endgame, playing with optimized groups on PC. DC will definitely still have a place, both in premades and in pug groups and here is a reason why:

1) In pug groups, an AC DC can spam AA and keep everyone alive. AA is LITERALLY like bubble in that it makes you immune to everything when spammed. Post elol set nerf (since I play on PC, haste+elol set has been nerfed) I was able to duo every single T2 with a dc, both of us wearing mod 5 sets with 40k HP, because of the ability of the DC to make the party immune to everything. The only fight that was a little challenging was the last fight in etos, because the dots from spiders would consume the AA spheres slightly faster than the rate at which the DC puts them up. Anointed Army is the new Divine Protector.

2) In premades, a buffer DC drastically increases your clear speed, trivializing all content.

As for immunity, nobody needs it, the game is really easy and rather than complaining about the lack of immunity, you should adapt to the change and learn to dodge red.

hearing the state of the game now after the nerfs on pc is helpful. what builds are the new hotness for both dc and OP. (both of mine will need to be respecced to what people now want)

but just saying dodge the red is disingenuous. derp. but really not talking about me. and I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about me. I've been pretty clear in all of this that I'm worried about the huge part of the xbox community that is not in a high end guild and is not geared up yet.

none of my concerns have been based on me or others like me. I'm also a end player and now I'm in a end game guild. but I recently came from a guild of not end game players. xbox at least, has a majority of players who are far from geared well. (the vocal ones on here are all pretty much end game players but a lot of us are advocates for the newer players or players comfortable not gearing up past 2500 or 2600 IL) because we don't want the game to die

they are the ones you find in pugs. your average PUG for elol will have 1 or 2 1600 or 1700 il players.. a 2300-2500 and maybe one 2700+ player. if you're trying to get a epic game odds are your pug is going to be consisting of 2000-2300 players. (and in order to find this game of terribly undergeared players you've had to wait in a queue for about half an hour to an hour)

you used to be able to keep the party alive or if not keep the party alive sometimes solo or partially solo it to get them thru it.. I never said anything about immunity. 95% percent of the time the bubbles in pugs aren't perma. my pally isn't perma, it's near to perma but definitely not perma. (it's an alt) these people STRUGGLE.. they sometimes seriously seriously struggle. i used to pug for fun. some times would be a speed run other times I'd just help the inexperienced make it thru the dungeon to actually get gear they needed. without a bubble of any kind and without the haste is going to seriously hurt these undergeared people trying to gear up.

although the AA you speak of might help that. I don't know i haven't seen it yet.

I used to pug now and again, the grab bag aspect. (got an hour to kill lets see what we end up with ) and that warm glow knowing i helped someone achieve something that will actually be really useful. these changes pretty much assure that people like me will just start doing premade guild runs only...

I get very very tired of the elite talking for the elite. elites are NOT the what keep this game alive. it's new players who stay on. This games needs them. if the game becomes too hard for people then booom game over. they are going to quit and move on and this game already seems to have population problems. Let them eat cake has been proven time and time again NOT to work and to be terribly short sighted.

the dungeons are going to be the playground of the elite only and people trying to gear up are going to have demon grinding only. and if you can't speedrun them still (I don't know if you can or not as we aren't there yet) I doubt anyone is going to bother with them at all really. it's not like they are fun to do for fun sake. they are basically only there for salvage other than elol and a couple others that are good for trying to get the rare arti drop. For me the fun was trying to get seriously undergeared people thru one. the bubble helped.. but did not make them immortal. LOL.

buckysashiba · April 2016

I play a pally and I can say this - not everyone has 4 power points in it. So you are not talking 20 seconds down to 6. You are talking 15 seconds down to 5 with 3 power points slotted. Simply not enough to get through what you guys are calling the "simple" epic dungeons. You know the ones only requiring item level 1600 - ELOL, Epic Shoes , Malabog, Vallindra... Hard to get through anyway with a fairly decent team of new 70's. Let alone try to fight the blue or black stronghold dragon so forget that "kill 4 dragon" achievement- it ain't gonna happen with a 5-6 second bubble.

vaultingfrog · April 2016

thefiresidecat said:

they are the ones you find in pugs. your average PUG for elol will have 1 or 2 1600 or 1700 il players.. a 2300-2500 and maybe one 2700+ player. if you're trying to get a epic game odds are your pug is going to be consisting of 2000-2300 players. (and in order to find this game of terribly undergeared players you've had to wait in a queue for about half an hour to an hour)

you used to be able to keep the party alive or if not keep the party alive sometimes solo or partially solo it to get them thru it.. I never said anything about immunity. 95% percent of the time the bubbles in pugs aren't perma. my pally isn't perma, it's near to perma but definitely not perma. (it's an alt) these people STRUGGLE.. they sometimes seriously seriously struggle. i used to pug for fun. some times would be a speed run other times I'd just help the inexperienced make it thru the dungeon to actually get gear they needed. without a bubble of any kind and without the haste is going to seriously hurt these undergeared people trying to gear up.

the dungeons are going to be the playground of the elite only and people trying to gear up are going to have demon grinding only. and if you can't speedrun them still (I don't know if you can or not as we aren't there yet) I doubt anyone is going to bother with them at all really. it's not like they are fun to do for fun sake. they are basically only there for salvage other than elol and a couple others that are good for trying to get the rare arti drop. For me the fun was trying to get seriously undergeared people thru one. the bubble helped.. but did not make them immortal. LOL.

Speaking as one of those under geared and non perma bubble pallies, I thank you for running my pathetic HAMSTER through some of those things. Not that I have actually met you in game, at least I dont think I have.

I just hit 2500 IL last double refinement and I can tell you that once they take away my bubble (which I dont care if it is perma or not) my pally is going to be toast for groups. I am already nearly a lepper simply because of my IL and being told I am not strong enough to be in a group. I have had whole groups quit on me for epics and demo simply because I am a lower IL.

Not only that but I am my guilds saving grace. With out me on guild runs most fall flat because we dont have the gear to bull our way through things. How do we get that gear though? OH we have to do epics and that sort of stuff... which we cant do because our IL isnt good enough apparently for groups.

End game is all well and good but for the newer players any little bit helps and they are taking the help away from what I have read in the update notes.

Should the bubble be perma and basically turn on god mode for everybody? Not in my opinion, but that doesnt mean you have to nerf it so far into the ground it cant even push up daisies because its dead.

thefiresidecat · April 2016

I love all the folks who claim the dungeons are too easy anyway and we should all just dodge and what is everyone complaining about. I bet they never run pugs. oh no we run only with our guild and it's a speed run every time.. so boring...

my suggestion to those who find it "too easy" is to pug it. and then don't kick ANYONE.. Just play it. see how easy it is then. maybe it will bring back some of the fun for you. LOL.

telprydain · April 2016

Reading feedback from PC players have been good... and it very much seems that some of the panic has been overstated.

We did some guild runs without bubble over the weekend to see how it would go, and it went way better than expected. Ploughed through every T1 one we tried and went through eToS fine (with a wipe or two).
That's without a single respec, no practice, players who are new (so had never done epic without a bubble before) and the guild was Casual Gamers... so that's a really mixed group with some folk > 2000 Item level for (Sot and LoL) and no one higher than 2700.

I have no doubt at all that once people have used the free respec, and have some idea of what dungeons now require, that eToS and the T1s will be no issue.

armadeonx · April 2016

It is possible to run an effective OP tank without bubble. Of course, it's not as effective as a perma-bubble build but for lower IL groups the pally should focus on damage reduction & aggro pulling. Until now it's been all about buffing group DPS (Vengence & Courage + Binding Oath).

I'm thinking of getting a guild group together to experiment with no bubble, but using Auras of Protection & Truth to reduce incoming damage & using Vow of Enmity on bosses to keep aggro (everyone who hits target builds threat for the pally) - this'll also work to some degree in mob fights if you use it on one of their tanks.

Personally I would like the devs to add increasing threat to the Shielding Strike at-will, as this would be a nice touch.

@thefiresidecat I can confirm AA is very effective - my haste is Righteous & uses it, not only does it give serious dmg mitigation for a number of hits, it also gives CC immunity and a power buff to all party members. Combined with Empowered AS, the DC has the ability to grant almost total damage mitigation to the group if they all remember to stand in the circle - lol.

I used this exact setup when I found myself in a pug etos with 4 DPS. I switched out one of my HoT's for AS & we ploughed all the way through. Of course it helped that most of the DPS'ers were well specced (only one at 2.3k)

Of course, the DC will also be hit by reduced AP gain so if you go with a buff build plus 3 choices from the top row to add the nerfed haste you *should* be able to almost(?) chain it in most circumstances.

Edit: using a combination of Divine Fortune (currently has my AP gain at 75%) plus Hastening Light (if the fix reaches us by the time the nerf goes live) you should be able to chain AA effectively.

thefabricant · April 2016

thefiresidecat said:

thefabricant said:

thefiresidecat said:
@manyvengeance I'm with you. I think the pally is going to not be a tank so much as a tankish healer.. I think the dc is going to be irrelevant but will still be required for dungeons that arent premade, so you'll end up with people STILL quitting dungeons because no pally.

no balance just broken.
@thefiresidecat I come from the perspective of someone at pretty much endgame, playing with optimized groups on PC. DC will definitely still have a place, both in premades and in pug groups and here is a reason why:

1) In pug groups, an AC DC can spam AA and keep everyone alive. AA is LITERALLY like bubble in that it makes you immune to everything when spammed. Post elol set nerf (since I play on PC, haste+elol set has been nerfed) I was able to duo every single T2 with a dc, both of us wearing mod 5 sets with 40k HP, because of the ability of the DC to make the party immune to everything. The only fight that was a little challenging was the last fight in etos, because the dots from spiders would consume the AA spheres slightly faster than the rate at which the DC puts them up. Anointed Army is the new Divine Protector.

2) In premades, a buffer DC drastically increases your clear speed, trivializing all content.

As for immunity, nobody needs it, the game is really easy and rather than complaining about the lack of immunity, you should adapt to the change and learn to dodge red.

hearing the state of the game now after the nerfs on pc is helpful. what builds are the new hotness for both dc and OP. (both of mine will need to be respecced to what people now want)

but just saying dodge the red is disingenuous. derp. but really not talking about me. and I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about me. I've been pretty clear in all of this that I'm worried about the huge part of the xbox community that is not in a high end guild and is not geared up yet.

none of my concerns have been based on me or others like me. I'm also a end player and now I'm in a end game guild. but I recently came from a guild of not end game players. xbox at least, has a majority of players who are far from geared well. (the vocal ones on here are all pretty much end game players but a lot of us are advocates for the newer players or players comfortable not gearing up past 2500 or 2600 IL) because we don't want the game to die

they are the ones you find in pugs. your average PUG for elol will have 1 or 2 1600 or 1700 il players.. a 2300-2500 and maybe one 2700+ player. if you're trying to get a epic game odds are your pug is going to be consisting of 2000-2300 players. (and in order to find this game of terribly undergeared players you've had to wait in a queue for about half an hour to an hour)

you used to be able to keep the party alive or if not keep the party alive sometimes solo or partially solo it to get them thru it.. I never said anything about immunity. 95% percent of the time the bubbles in pugs aren't perma. my pally isn't perma, it's near to perma but definitely not perma. (it's an alt) these people STRUGGLE.. they sometimes seriously seriously struggle. i used to pug for fun. some times would be a speed run other times I'd just help the inexperienced make it thru the dungeon to actually get gear they needed. without a bubble of any kind and without the haste is going to seriously hurt these undergeared people trying to gear up.

although the AA you speak of might help that. I don't know i haven't seen it yet.

I used to pug now and again, the grab bag aspect. (got an hour to kill lets see what we end up with ) and that warm glow knowing i helped someone achieve something that will actually be really useful. these changes pretty much assure that people like me will just start doing premade guild runs only...

I get very very tired of the elite talking for the elite. elites are NOT the what keep this game alive. it's new players who stay on. This games needs them. if the game becomes too hard for people then booom game over. they are going to quit and move on and this game already seems to have population problems. Let them eat cake has been proven time and time again NOT to work and to be terribly short sighted.

the dungeons are going to be the playground of the elite only and people trying to gear up are going to have demon grinding only. and if you can't speedrun them still (I don't know if you can or not as we aren't there yet) I doubt anyone is going to bother with them at all really. it's not like they are fun to do for fun sake. they are basically only there for salvage other than elol and a couple others that are good for trying to get the rare arti drop. For me the fun was trying to get seriously undergeared people thru one. the bubble helped.. but did not make them immortal. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLnM-7hN9-8&feature=youtu.be

That was with the arp bug. It isn't gear that matters, but having a good group of players who know what they doing. Remember, the minimum ilvl requirement is exactly that, a minimum, which is by no means the recommended ilvl and all it takes to finish any of the t2 dungeons is for 1 good player to queue into them, not 4 or 5. If a decent DC queues into them, they immune, if my CW queues into a pug group, I can solo the dungeon. It is the same story for every class, the only time you need a group of 4 or 5 good players, is either when speed running, or when doing the dungeon at the absolute minimum ilvl requirement.

cesar · April 2016

thefabricant said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLnM-7hN9-8&feature=youtu.be

That was with the arp bug. It isn't gear that matters, but having a good group of players who know what they doing. Remember, the minimum ilvl requirement is exactly that, a minimum, which is by no means the recommended ilvl and all it takes to finish any of the t2 dungeons is for 1 good player to queue into them, not 4 or 5. If a decent DC queues into them, they immune, if my CW queues into a pug group, I can solo the dungeon. It is the same story for every class, the only time you need a group of 4 or 5 good players, is either when speed running, or when doing the dungeon at the absolute minimum ilvl requirement.

You don't play on Xbox, right? This video is from PC, and I wish my toon responded to controller input the way it does on PC; that would make a HUGE difference! And it's been getting worse recently; for example, having to press X, Y, or B several times for an encounter to trigger (and yes, the encounter is available).

I got this mount that gives me 4000 movement, which worked for like a week (you could notice the difference when moving) and now the toon's back to sluggish mode.

It's ridiculous.

armadeonx · April 2016

Controls in the PC format on all games are superior imo - using a keyboard & mouse allows you true control separation & you're using all fingers, not just thumbs!

cesar · April 2016

Well, I'm talking about the time it takes from pressing a button until the game actually performs the corresponding action. I don't have that issue with any game on Xbox but this one.

And not only that. For instance, my main is a GWF, and first thing I usually do when entering combat is Daring Shout. Well, sometimes you get a red right after starting it, so easy! you just move or run sideways to avoid it. Same thing with WMS: one, two hits and then you suddenly need to avoid red. No big deal... Problem is getting the next action (moving) to register quickly. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

The other thing, at least in my case, is my toon becoming slower when in combat. I noted this is a really crappy problem in the game itself after having increased the movement stat substantially, noticing a good improvement for about a week, and then going back to the same old problem.

Really, Cryptic should dedicate a couple of devs and testers to really improving the code that deals with the controller. I won't take forever, so any reason to justify not doing this is just a really lame excuse.

thefabricant · April 2016

armadeonx said:
Controls in the PC format on all games are superior imo - using a keyboard & mouse allows you true control separation & you're using all fingers, not just thumbs!

I am not going to make the pc/xbox argument, because it always ends with, "come play on xbox and prove me wrong" and honestly, I am not going to buy a seperate platform, just to do that. The important line in what I said is the 1 in bold, minimum vs recommended. Whether or not there is a group that can do it with the minimum ilvl, idk, but it is doable on pc, which was where the game is designed then copied from for you and balance is done around the pc controls, not the xbox ones. Is this fair? Probably not, but I am not the person to hate on for that, you will have to hate on someone else.

armadeonx · April 2016

Up til recently I've always played on PC - I switched mostly out of necessity (long story). I've personally found that regardless of the reaction speed of the controls, you just have have more finesse with a keyboard & mouse - targeting,moving, simultaneous commands etc are all so much easier.

The XBox (and all consoles) use the same keys for multiple commands out of necessity. I like the simplicity of consoles but the interface has definite limitations. E.g. how many times I've gone to make a jump when a player moves in front of me & I bring up their menu instead of jumping! No I don't want to votekick or trade with them! That's down to using the same buttons.

cesar · April 2016

thefabricant said:

... then copied from for you and balance is done around the pc controls, not the xbox ones.

Makes no sense at all. If you port X software from one platform to another, you HAVE to balance around that platform to make it work (whether this balance is good or not, that's another story).

armadeonx · April 2016

Yeah you're talking about pre-70 pvp (mind you post 70 is worse lol). T2's are a different reality altogether.

thefiresidecat · April 2016

cesar#6784 said:

thefabricant said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLnM-7hN9-8&feature=youtu.be

That was with the arp bug. It isn't gear that matters, but having a good group of players who know what they doing. Remember, the minimum ilvl requirement is exactly that, a minimum, which is by no means the recommended ilvl and all it takes to finish any of the t2 dungeons is for 1 good player to queue into them, not 4 or 5. If a decent DC queues into them, they immune, if my CW queues into a pug group, I can solo the dungeon. It is the same story for every class, the only time you need a group of 4 or 5 good players, is either when speed running, or when doing the dungeon at the absolute minimum ilvl requirement.
You don't play on Xbox, right? This video is from PC, and I wish my toon responded to controller input the way it does on PC; that would make a HUGE difference! And it's been getting worse recently; for example, having to press X, Y, or B several times for an encounter to trigger (and yes, the encounter is available).

I got this mount that gives me 4000 movement, which worked for like a week (you could notice the difference when moving) and now the toon's back to sluggish mode.

It's ridiculous.

so that's not just me. it seems like I press each button like four or five times to get my encounter to trigger sometimes. when I go to play other games I end up doing all kinds of weird spazzy stuff because it's so habitual now.

vaultingfrog · April 2016

So I am not sure how this is becoming something about Xbox vs PC.... Doesn't need to happen here really.

Anywho, I know I am going to have to roll back to a healadin (which isn't too bad honestly) after this update if I really want to stay useful. My DPS will suffer for it but that's the way it is.

I just wish they didn't have to destroy the only mechanic the class had that was unique and really what it was built around. A tank that doesn't actually tank is kind of pointless.

thefabricant · April 2016

vaultingfrog#2497 said:
So I am not sure how this is becoming something about Xbox vs PC.... Doesn't need to happen here really.

Anywho, I know I am going to have to roll back to a healadin (which isn't too bad honestly) after this update if I really want to stay useful. My DPS will suffer for it but that's the way it is.

I just wish they didn't have to destroy the only mechanic the class had that was unique and really what it was built around. A tank that doesn't actually tank is kind of pointless.

Agreed about the pc vs xbox thing, which is why I said earlier:

thefabricant said:

armadeonx said:
Controls in the PC format on all games are superior imo - using a keyboard & mouse allows you true control separation & you're using all fingers, not just thumbs!
I am not going to make the pc/xbox argument, because it always ends with, "come play on xbox and prove me wrong" and honestly, I am not going to buy a seperate platform, just to do that. The important line in what I said is the 1 in bold, minimum vs recommended. Whether or not there is a group that can do it with the minimum ilvl, idk, but it is doable on pc, which was where the game is designed then copied from for you and balance is done around the pc controls, not the xbox ones. Is this fair? Probably not, but I am not the person to hate on for that, you will have to hate on someone else.

However, I disagree about the bubble nerf. The point at which tanking went from being about holding aggro to being about making your party immune, is the point where its no longer skillful tanking and just pure cheese.

armadeonx · April 2016

I agree with that & so should anyone who's got any sense. The way I'd summarise the issue though is by asking: 'without the bubble, how does a Pally tank compare to a GF tank'?

The general opinion is that the GF is significantly better but I've yet to see a dispassionate & thorough comparison.

I suspect people have become quite myopic about the OP due to the bubble - people only think bubble, including many pallys themselves.

thefabricant · April 2016

I used to main pally and honestly, whilst I am glad for the bubble nerf, I would have preferred for the skill to be completely redesigned, because its only a matter of time before an OP can perma bubble again. As it is, if you invest into AP gain you can achieve 75-90% bubble uptime post bubble nerf, which is still far too high imo, I would prefer a class not being built entirely around cheesing content and actually involving proper tanking skills. As for a dead class? Devotion is still viable if you don't want to play protection and any group that feels they need protection, will also find utility from devotion.

wdj40 · April 2016

cesar#6784 said:
Well, I'm talking about the time it takes from pressing a button until the game actually performs the corresponding action. I don't have that issue with any game on Xbox but this one.

And not only that. For instance, my main is a GWF, and first thing I usually do when entering combat is Daring Shout. Well, sometimes you get a red right after starting it, so easy! you just move or run sideways to avoid it. Same thing with WMS: one, two hits and then you suddenly need to avoid red. No big deal... Problem is getting the next action (moving) to register quickly. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

The other thing, at least in my case, is my toon becoming slower when in combat. I noted this is a really crappy problem in the game itself after having increased the movement stat substantially, noticing a good improvement for about a week, and then going back to the same old problem.

Really, Cryptic should dedicate a couple of devs and testers to really improving the code that deals with the controller. I won't take forever, so any reason to justify not doing this is just a really lame excuse.

^Exactly this... I quite literally have to hammer the button until an Encounter or whatever fires off for every single attack, otherwise most of the time it just does not register. The extreme lag also accounts for, I really would say, 100% of my deaths. So many times I have dodged way before the attack hits yet I rubberband back into death.

vaultingfrog · April 2016

thefabricant said:
I used to main pally and honestly, whilst I am glad for the bubble nerf, I would have preferred for the skill to be completely redesigned, because its only a matter of time before an OP can perma bubble again. As it is, if you invest into AP gain you can achieve 75-90% bubble uptime post bubble nerf, which is still far too high imo, I would prefer a class not being built entirely around cheesing content and actually involving proper tanking skills. As for a dead class? Devotion is still viable if you don't want to play protection and any group that feels they need protection, will also find utility from devotion.

Considering how the pally doesnt really have threat generation at the moment compared to other classes, as well as threat generating abilities being broken on the pally the bubble compensated for that.

As I am sure you know, being a pally and all, that to tank you need to keep threat so they focus on you and not your party, but with out that threat generation the focus needed just isnt there. The bubble got around that to protect the party.

Personally I think that the bubble could have been redesigned to let 20% of the damage through on people being affected by the bubble while the pally absorbs the rest. Basically reducing all party damage down to 20% for a period of time instead of completely negating it for everyone except the pally. That and bubbles shouldnt stack. Having two pallys in a party shouldnt allow the bubbles to stack and make everyone immune.

If that were the case then I highly doubt people would have so much of an issue with the bubble and it wouldnt need to be nerfed. If the threat generation stuff gets fixed then the class would be a very good tank with out being uber broken.

thefabricant · April 2016

vaultingfrog#2497 said:

thefabricant said:
I used to main pally and honestly, whilst I am glad for the bubble nerf, I would have preferred for the skill to be completely redesigned, because its only a matter of time before an OP can perma bubble again. As it is, if you invest into AP gain you can achieve 75-90% bubble uptime post bubble nerf, which is still far too high imo, I would prefer a class not being built entirely around cheesing content and actually involving proper tanking skills. As for a dead class? Devotion is still viable if you don't want to play protection and any group that feels they need protection, will also find utility from devotion.
Considering how the pally doesnt really have threat generation at the moment compared to other classes, as well as threat generating abilities being broken on the pally the bubble compensated for that.

As I am sure you know, being a pally and all, that to tank you need to keep threat so they focus on you and not your party, but with out that threat generation the focus needed just isnt there. The bubble got around that to protect the party.

Personally I think that the bubble could have been redesigned to let 20% of the damage through on people being affected by the bubble while the pally absorbs the rest. Basically reducing all party damage down to 20% for a period of time instead of completely negating it for everyone except the pally. That and bubbles shouldnt stack. Having two pallys in a party shouldnt allow the bubbles to stack and make everyone immune.

If that were the case then I highly doubt people would have so much of an issue with the bubble and it wouldnt need to be nerfed. If the threat generation stuff gets fixed then the class would be a very good tank with out being uber broken.

You actually can tank, somewhat, if you regulate the use of divine call (it is a hard taunt). I agree though that pally aggro mechanics need to be fixed and I use the word fixed, because they are actually supposed to have a few, but they aren't working. Binding oath for example, is supposed to hard taunt opponents. I think that if those mechanics were fixed, paladin would have no issues.

vaultingfrog · April 2016

thefabricant said:

You actually can tank, somewhat, if you regulate the use of divine call (it is a hard taunt). I agree though that pally aggro mechanics need to be fixed and I use the word fixed, because they are actually supposed to have a few, but they aren't working. Binding oath for example, is supposed to hard taunt opponents. I think that if those mechanics were fixed, paladin would have no issues.

If only they could fix that... that way my pally wouldnt be considered a leper for PUGs. I mean the little redesign of the bubble like I thought of wouldnt make the OP broken but a very useful class.

telprydain · April 2016

thefabricant said:

You actually can tank, somewhat, if you regulate the use of divine call (it is a hard taunt). I agree though that pally aggro mechanics need to be fixed and I use the word fixed, because they are actually supposed to have a few, but they aren't working. Binding oath for example, is supposed to hard taunt opponents. I think that if those mechanics were fixed, paladin would have no issues.

We did a test run on eToS and it went just fine. I was using the aura that damages and builds threat, it it worked just fine.
Although I'd agree that the methods that are broken need seen to ASAP.

thefabricant · April 2016

telprydain said:

thefabricant said:

You actually can tank, somewhat, if you regulate the use of divine call (it is a hard taunt). I agree though that pally aggro mechanics need to be fixed and I use the word fixed, because they are actually supposed to have a few, but they aren't working. Binding oath for example, is supposed to hard taunt opponents. I think that if those mechanics were fixed, paladin would have no issues.
We did a test run on eToS and it went just fine. I was using the aura that damages and builds threat, it it worked just fine.
Although I'd agree that the methods that are broken need seen to ASAP.

Yes, the class is fine, but it in no way competes with a GF which can tank and buff. What I would like to see from the class is a complete rework of the bubble, (I dislike immunity or mass damage reduction mechanics in the first place and I feel the same way about knight's valor, shield of faith and anointed army) a fixing of the hard taunt mechanics and an increase in the pallies ability to buff, maybe increasing the effectiveness of aura of courage by 50%?

armadeonx · April 2016

Yeah that'd work. Along with effective threat gen. I think a lot of the issues for non-tanky classes is that their DR sits around 20-30% & npc enemies appear to have RI in the 40-50% area. It also looks like they use the Lostmauth set too - lol. Their crits can be ridiculous.

At the most simple way of looking at it, any class should be able to take at least 4-5 hits before losing all health. This gives enough time to dodge, get healed etc.

I must say again though that Cryptic deciding to remove one aspect of a class without rebalancing the others at the same time is just so myopic. They do this so often.

I genuinely feel sorry for newer players where the Pally is their main or only character as they are now forced to either play as a leper for the next few months (until Cryptic wake up & fix things) or respec to a Healadin.

I personally love my pally, he's unkillable in most circumstances & at 60% RI he can clear content in a decent time. I'm tempted to just make some tweaks but stay Protection, keep improving his gear and wait it out.

thefabricant · April 2016

armadeonx said:
Yeah that'd work. Along with effective threat gen. I think a lot of the issues for non-tanky classes is that their DR sits around 20-30% & npc enemies appear to have RI in the 40-50% area. It also looks like they use the Lostmauth set too - lol. Their crits can be ridiculous.

At the most simple way of looking at it, any class should be able to take at least 4-5 hits before losing all health. This gives enough time to dodge, get healed etc.

I must say again though that Cryptic deciding to remove one aspect of a class without rebalancing the others at the same time is just so myopic. They do this so often.

I genuinely feel sorry for newer players where the Pally is their main or only character as they are now forced to either play as a leper for the next few months (until Cryptic wake up & fix things) or respec to a Healadin.

I personally love my pally, he's unkillable in most circumstances & at 60% RI he can clear content in a decent time. I'm tempted to just make some tweaks but stay Protection, keep improving his gear and wait it out.

Monsters have, for the most part, 10-15% armour penetration, its something I have checked on PC. The only notable exceptions are some bosses, phase spiders and assassin drakes, everything else has hardly any arp at all.

armadeonx · April 2016

Wow and they do that much damage? That's insane.

The April fool's joke that is not

Comments