When this game was in it's earlier days, CN was the show. What you worked towards, the goal. You had to EARN it! You had to do the grind, you had to try the dungeons you had the gear to run over and over again, until you had earned the next one. Then you ran that dungeon, over and over again, until you earned your next piece of armor. That was what made MMOs popular, that effort.
This is such a bunch of hokum. The game was NEVER like that. Most people skipped T1 gear and went right for T2. You never had to do all the dungeons. Even if you wanted to, it wasn't a grind. The gear dropped like candy. There was so many people farming it, that the AH was glutted with gear.
There was no progression, there was no grind, it was nothing like you described. The reality was, for a few thousand AD you could buy an entire T2 armor set. And for a few thousand more you could get a set of CN weapons. That wasn't earning it. Heck, I managed to equip all my characters in full T2 gear before they even set foot in a single dungeon.
What we have now is what you describe. People will reject you if your iLevel isnt high enough. You all but have to do T1s until you earn enough seals for gear. Then T2s for more seals. Even if you short cut it a bit by skipping T1 or going straight to the Drowcraft gear, or if you are lucky enough, to have access to guild armor. You will still fall short of a quick ticket into CN. You will still need to grind for refinement. Gota boost that artifact gear to even think of being accepted.
As much as there were real problems with gear glut and over farming. I would MUCH rather have it like it was. Even if it is a far cry from what thought it was.
As far as the rest of your rant, there is simply too much inaccuracy. Too much stuff remembered wrong for me to take it seriously. It just comes off as a bunch of buzzword filled hyperbole by the misinformed.
You talking about mod 5 lol, was a different story in mod 0-2, unless you spent a boat load of real money on zen, to convert to AD, to buy that gear. Most people just farmed the gear because it was impractical to buy it.
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited April 2016
As a longtime player who has seen the whole gamut of actions and reactions in Neverwinter (and beyond), the post is overly-simplistic in blaming the player base for the current woes of the game, in its historical milieu.
First, there was a shift in the model by which Perfect World wanted its profit stream to be sustained. The early mods were based on large player bases (with a lot of F2P players, medium amounts of paying players, and always a few whales). The difference is that paying did not give you access via statistical RNG to items not able to be obtained. Paying sped up the process by which you could obtain top gear that you could have grinded for, because drops were unbound until you equipped them. The economy was fine (*cough* Caturday and Astral Resonance *cough*), because it was truly Pay to Go Faster. But, it is usually the case that newly released games still function on a base of investor cash that eventually is gone. So, the need to make money to hit profit goals while also creating new content (through paid programmers) is needed. The large F2P base, although providing energy and excitement in the game to all, did nothing for the profit goal directly. So, there was a vice-like application over several mods to increase the purchases of zen in the game (introduction of refining system, companions with bonuses, and on and on). Like the proverbial frog in the water, the heat was slowly turned up via pay walls (no longer Pay-to-go-faster, but pay-to-win). What is the difference? P2W is when items that are End-Game and BiS cannot be earned in any way through regular play. The large F2P base of players jumped ship and tried anything else, the mid-range payers stayed, hoping for their voice to be heard, and the whales were largely unaffected, just maximizing the means of making more game profits. So, the target was to focus on the large mid-payers. Then, the micro-transaction model came in. Lower cost per purchase, high RNG, which means the playing style became less about a continuous progression (like going through the T1 dungeons to get gear suitable for T2 and then running T2), and more like a step-wise progression (no advancement until you hit that big RNG score, and then lots of immediate improvement). Even today, rather than 'grinding' out sets that give gradual improvement, the player base gravitates to the big score possibilities (whether for AD purposes or character improvement). Don't believe me? How many of you have run artificer's workshop just for the RNG chance at the beholder tank?
Second, the developers forgot that Neverwinter is not a sand-box MMO, but a lore-based, hub-arranged MMORPG. Early reviews of Neverwinter praised the foundry system and later re-reviewers lamented how Cryptic never examined how the foundry could be used as a profit stream for them, as in other MMOs (not named due to rules violations). The modules are all hubs of lore, that were somewhat interconnected through the Valindra story, but then were abandoned with mod 6 and 7, and are blurred beyond recognition with mod 8 and 9 (although I love the lore in mod 8 and 9). The hubs are underdeveloped (Sharandar, Dread Ring, IWD, Well of Dragons, Underdark... *cough* *cough*). And the reason for this is the shift in development model, when Cryptic must follow releases by Wizards of the Coast, to match the table top releases. So, programmers work furiously to develop content that meets contractural obiligations for WoTC, and release untested, unfinished, imperfect content to the player base. And, before the devlopers can go back and fix broken content, the priority is to drive the new, because that is what WoTC wants. Moreover, the time to brainstorm new ideas is probably not available to the poor Cryptic developers. I am amazed that the programmers get anything done at all with a two-tiered head of profit margins from Perfect World and content-control from WoTC.
Finally, the player-base has grown accustomed to the instant-gratification that RNG step-wise progression can give. The microtransaction model may be good for profit, but it also generates a behavior and expectation in the game. This bleeds over into the complaints about difficulty of content, whether too hard (for those who are levelling up and trying to do it the old fashion continuous progression way) to too easy (the BiS PvP and PvErs who know they are OP but still want more). Greed and instant gratification has set in, and I honestly have no idea how Cryptic would scale back out of the current system and still maintain profit goals that are dictated to them. Mod 6 and Mod 7 Strongholds were attempts to create the old style mutually-dependent system, but all it really did was make guilds (for the most part) means by which to be provide instant gratification with the boons, which are no small feature. It is hard to overlook the increase that these boons give in light of the whole game and content, especially if content is planned around an assumption that players will have at least X boons from their guild. But of course, this creates the disparity between the 'haves' in elite guilds with all big boon bonuses and the 'have nots' in the smaller guilds that want to group for other reasons. If you want more proof, consider the pursuit of glitches in dps by those who do not just want damage that can adequately finish content, but can destroy it in seconds and call it BiS: OP + GF reflect synergy, Briartwine reflect, Lostmauth set, Orcus set, Original Tenebrous enchant and its ICD, the current Bonding stone stacking, the SW puppet eternal spawn (remember PvP with 100 of these and teams of 5 SWs dominating), and more. Each time one was found, the player base gravitated to it, not content with grinding out a boon for 400 more power, but wanted to hit for 200 Million or more, because in light of the glitch, the regular stuff just looks depressingly useless. And this affects the in-game economy and mechanics and party invites (HDPS for MC or VT anyone??? Why? Its a T1). Yes, there was a smaller contingent of elite players in the early mods who dominated, but it was just that...small. Now, it is considered the norm, or you are cut out.
In conclusion, I do not wholly disagree with your post. But, I think you miss the mark somewhat.
When this game was in it's earlier days, CN was the show. What you worked towards, the goal. You had to EARN it! You had to do the grind, you had to try the dungeons you had the gear to run over and over again, until you had earned the next one. Then you ran that dungeon, over and over again, until you earned your next piece of armor. That was what made MMOs popular, that effort.
This is such a bunch of hokum. The game was NEVER like that. Most people skipped T1 gear and went right for T2. You never had to do all the dungeons. Even if you wanted to, it wasn't a grind. The gear dropped like candy. There was so many people farming it, that the AH was glutted with gear.
There was no progression, there was no grind, it was nothing like you described. The reality was, for a few thousand AD you could buy an entire T2 armor set. And for a few thousand more you could get a set of CN weapons. That wasn't earning it. Heck, I managed to equip all my characters in full T2 gear before they even set foot in a single dungeon.
And what you're describing is Mod 5 when the devs decided to hand out gear like candy, effectively destroying the economy. The game prior to that was very much like @rescorlian described it. CN was the pinnacle of pve content, not like the Mod 9 version where @thefabricant soloed CN on the second day of release.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
When this game was in it's earlier days, CN was the show. What you worked towards, the goal. You had to EARN it! You had to do the grind, you had to try the dungeons you had the gear to run over and over again, until you had earned the next one. Then you ran that dungeon, over and over again, until you earned your next piece of armor. That was what made MMOs popular, that effort.
This is such a bunch of hokum. The game was NEVER like that. Most people skipped T1 gear and went right for T2. You never had to do all the dungeons. Even if you wanted to, it wasn't a grind. The gear dropped like candy. There was so many people farming it, that the AH was glutted with gear.
There was no progression, there was no grind, it was nothing like you described. The reality was, for a few thousand AD you could buy an entire T2 armor set. And for a few thousand more you could get a set of CN weapons. That wasn't earning it. Heck, I managed to equip all my characters in full T2 gear before they even set foot in a single dungeon.
What we have now is what you describe. People will reject you if your iLevel isnt high enough. You all but have to do T1s until you earn enough seals for gear. Then T2s for more seals. Even if you short cut it a bit by skipping T1 or going straight to the Drowcraft gear, or if you are lucky enough, to have access to guild armor. You will still fall short of a quick ticket into CN. You will still need to grind for refinement. Gota boost that artifact gear to even think of being accepted.
As much as there were real problems with gear glut and over farming. I would MUCH rather have it like it was. Even if it is a far cry from what thought it was.
As far as the rest of your rant, there is simply too much inaccuracy. Too much stuff remembered wrong for me to take it seriously. It just comes off as a bunch of buzzword filled hyperbole by the misinformed.
You talking about mod 5 lol, was a different story in mod 0-2, unless you spent a boat load of real money on zen, to convert to AD, to buy that gear. Most people just farmed the gear because it was impractical to buy it.
You're mistaken. I was able to buy pretty much any T2 set for well under 500k AD by mod 2. Most sold for under 100k. If you wanted a popular set on the over powered class of the week, they could get pricey. But for every Avatar of War, High Vizier, or High Prophet set. You could find a Shadow Weaver or Miracle Healers set for a fraction of the price.
As far as weapons even the CN stuff got dirt cheap long before mod 5. Even before artifact weapons CN stuff fell behind the stuff you had to create from drops in MC and VT.
I'm a solo player, Ive never had a leadership army, I rarely run dungeons, Ive never had more then a few hundred thousand AD at any given time. Yet, I had 5 characters in T2 gear by mod 2. And not a single one of them set foot into a dungeon until AFTER they got geared.
T2 Cleric gear was cheap compared to others, though. TR gear ran way more expensive.
Post edited by telprydain on
Casual Gamers
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Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories. "In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
Hi people. I think what everyone fails to realize is that the community HERE it not necessarily the game community as a whole and not representative of the people that are playing the game. This is like 1% of the attention seeking whiney HAMSTER mother loving people who play. I don't spend time on the forums chit chatting and standing on my soapbox. I actually PLAY the game. for some reason im having trouble logging in atm so im dling a patch for STO. (but i digress)
This is the first time i have ever posted in the NW forums. Frankly I am not a fan of forums. I worked for a company that had a forum and dealt with the HAMSTER and moan about all the changes they made. I do read on here about updates and general information i need to PLAY the game.
Oftentimes, however reading the drivel on here feels like the same HAMSTER different smell.
Y'all whine, they do what you want, y'all whine more. Meanwhile the entire time you are shooting yourselves in the foot not only because YOUR changes aren;t necessarily what is what the community [that plays the game instead of chit chatting on here] wants, not only because YOUR changes aren't necessarily the best choices for the game, Not only because you guys are really busy here bitching and moaning while others are playing the actual game.
But also because at some point, they are just going to say HAMSTER'em and remove you entirely as a customer base and focus on a group of less whiney people without a voice. Meanwhile you HAMSTER over all the new people joining this game.
I am new, and have only been here a few months. I have leveled a TR to 70 2600 ilevel, an OP to 70 2660 ilevel-- SW il2000/ CW/ HR to 70 [alliance gear], i also have a DC/GWF in their high 60s GF at 50 and a second OP at 20.
Yeah yeah, i have no life... and yeah I've spent a little actual monies. I do an awful lot of grinding for gear for salvage and play a stupidly ridiculous amount of time everyday. im not in zone HAMSTER around, im not in moonstone mask doing lord knows what in those little back rooms (ive walked in on some weird HAMSTER going on up in there)
So in regards to the Lostmauth set. Who the HAMSTER cares. now it works as intended. People cant slam the HAMSTER out of dungeons in 3 seconds. I have the lostmauth set on my TR.
But my HIGHER iLEVEL OP can no longer play things my TR can. Yeah i got a respec - yippiekayay. Cool I get to rethink my entire game, i get to start from scratch everything i have been building towards and the fact that i JUST got my OP to CN and now i cant play. I cant HAMSTER play the game. I now have a really awesome character i cant use anymore, until i rethink my entire build, rework everything and basically render everything i was striving towards useless. I get that an adjustment needed to be made, Im not whining that i cant be all stupidly OP but now I cant get through any epic content.
So thanks guys for breaking my character for your HAMSTER measuring contest (pvp) take your pvp to pvp based games.
Ive been kicked out of PVEs right after joining because they didnt like my ilevel of 2300 which only discouraged me from joining any epic queues for weeks. That is the game that you've created here. A game that doesn't welcome people, that makes people sit in PUG queues for hours if they want to do anything that might possibly drop anything remotely useful and then get booted.
I wont be wasting any more money on this game. Thanks for alienating me. I appreciate it.
I think a degree of responsibility rests with both sides.
Certainly, players are usually biased toward their class & the most whiny are always those that want their class buffed while having another nerfed. This nearly always ignores 'balance of utility' across the classes.
Cryptic should take the position of listening to feedback but not following it. It's feedback but it's not necessarily truth due to players personal bias.
There are three major issues that really need serious attention:
Class utility - i.e. every class has a role & position of equal value to the game
Bug fixing - skills not working as intended/described - that's just shoddy work tbh & should take no. 1 priority
Effort = Reward - players run elol as it's quick & the rewards are equal to or better than T2's. Dungeon rewards should be structured so that more difficulty + more time means more reward at the end.
If they addressed these 3 issues the forums would become quite a boring place as there'd be not much left to complain about...
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
The complaints about the OP nerf are ridiculous. You're complaining because you're no longer godly with barely any effort or skill, that's it. Perma bubble was ridiculous. For people who relish a challenge, this is exactly what makes the game so much fun. You should have to work to complete things, you should have to have STRATEGY. The most fun I've had is when the party was right on the margin of being able to complete something and you work hard, think hard, and do it. Nerf the GWF's damage too. This is a great step in the right direction of allowing it to be challenging again. Little lesson from psychology, that hyper-focus, that putting your skills to the test is when people feel most alive. When it's critical that you time right and avoid the big hits and work together, that's the best. I played a HR when they were hot garbage and I've been playing a GF recently when all anybody wanted was an OP or another DPS and I still had fun. I make it social, I relish skill, and the only reason to get my gear up is to be able to help out my guildmates
The only reason people feel any different is because of the endless quest for refining items. It feels like pressure to do everything as fast a possible to earn AD to buy things to make yourself stronger to be able to get into groups who want to speed through things to get more refining items to be strong enough to get more refining items.
The major reason why dungeons and dragons is so fun is that it's a QUEST with a TEAM that's SOCIAL and has mystery to it. I hate the speed run LFM 3000+, grind grind grind, no talking, rush ahead. It's a fantastic game with fantastic controls, world and lore. If the devs could do anything, while still keeping their revenue model, it would be to allow those main pieces of gear, the body, the boots, the weapons, the rings (srsly the best rings in the game you get by doing professions????) to be hard-earned through random boss drops in dungeons and statistically worth more in terms of power relative to the refined stuff than they are now (honestly don't like artifact gear that much, artifacts and refining stones are fine). And hey, demogorgon is a good thing, and I'm very glad it's harder now, and I'll be earning my twisted weapons, although I'd like it to not be so Tiamat-y where you do it for campaign currency and then just buy it.
Good game has been getting better recently. I also very much like the effort to make things more of a story path rather than a grind fest. And I hope they find a way to add the elements that they know full well are the most fun back into the game while still making enough to keep the game running smoothly and create new content. We, the fans of DnD and Forgotten Realms, who like to chat and have fun and play a real challenge, the legits, very much enjoy the game because we know how to enjoy it. It could be better, we all know that, but there's a lot of good when you're part of one mindset and not the most toxic one, the grindset :P Both devs and players can do more to reduce the grindset. Grindset-free isn't lack of effort and just fool around, it means relishing the opportunities to have the best "flow" (from psychology, look it up) experiences, and the best team experiences in the pursuit of progress
Also, tying into that, dungeon length is a real determinant of enjoyability. I played some WoW maybe 8 years ago, it was a lot of fun, stopped playing computer games for a while, but there was one thing that made it so fantastic, and that was the all-important dungeon. I did just mention that, but dungeons in that game took much longer. The path through them was more difficult, you really had to work together, you needed to practice a lot and know your team, you needed to work together, and it took a while. A dungeon should be a journey, you should get big payoffs and it should take a while. You should have get to know the people you're there with, their specs, what they do, you should HAVE TO, not look like a weirdo when you inquire for the sake of strategy, because what's that? Longer dungeons, harder dungeons, less influenced by players who are so much more powerful than other players that they can carry a team (I realize I can just avoid 3500s, and do when I can, but when the guild needs shards and so much else in a day I tend to feel the need to speed-run for that alone).
And it was truly fantastic over a year ago before I took a long break, I come back and various bad incentives and ridiculously overpowered players have done something bad to the playerbase. Man was doing dungeons fun when it took longer and you expected it to take longer and there was more reward for doing it.
Understand how the mind works. Very much agree with the previous comments about the power-gaining system. Understand just how valuable to the experience that moment where you just worked really hard and, WHOAAA, this DROPPED and I had needed this specifically is. That's glorious. It's a good thing if it's a random drop. Stuff to sell on the auction house is also good, rewards for just being there in the meantime keep players satisfied until they get their big moment, their new piece.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Following is what I hope, will anger EVERYONE! I want to HAMSTER off the PvP players and PvE players alike. I want to do it with an idea that extends beyond Neverwinters walls. Stretches to other games and the truest challenge facing us all as gamers. Attitude.
This fellow released a video for WoW, arguably the greatest MMO of all time. Certainly the most notable in popularity. I happened across this video by accident, and watched it because of events similar to the challenges that face Neverwinter. There were moments where I could have sworn he was talking about our game, some of the similar challenges facing us.
I want to start off by saying, the fault does not lie with the developers. As far as I'm concerned, they have only made 3 mistakes.
3. - Removing content from the game, pulling the dungeons out for reworking. 2. - Trying to give players what they want, as opposed to what they need. 1. - Being human, yes they're people too; they do care, and feel like HAMSTER when players insult them and make them feel lesser.
The fellow made that video, hit the nail on the head. Biggest challenge we have here, is loss of community, loss of challenge, loss of attitude. The game is too easy, this comes from trying to make people happy. We had a guildie join recently, who wanted to run a CN, this is a freshly minted GF still wearing uncommon and rare armor pieces, and accessories. Then proceeded to get very angry when I told him he's not ready. When this game was in it's earlier days, CN was the show. What you worked towards, the goal. You had to EARN it! You had to do the grind, you had to try the dungeons you had the gear to run over and over again, until you had earned the next one. Then you ran that dungeon, over and over again, until you earned your next piece of armor. That was what made MMOs popular, that effort. There in lies the beginning of the challenges, players feeling it's easier (not better, easier and better are NOT synonymous) to come onto the forum and whine and complain that content is to hard, or that their class isn’t strong enough. The classes aren't supposed to be balanced. Their imbalance was their strength. Great weapons fighters damage is out of control because we don't have to build defensive stats. Control wizards are unhappy, because they don't NEED to control mobs, the great weapon fighter is just going to go in and kill everything. Trickster Rogues and Hunter Rangers had their purpose taken from them, no need for a high mobility, high burst character to eliminate high priority targets. The Paladins bubble, was created for more difficult content. The solution the community seems to feel is to nerf, buff rework the classes endlessly. You're wrong, yes you, if you feel that that's the issue, the challenge, then I am saying YOU'RE WRONG. You're one of the players that is at fault and has lead us to this challenge.
Here is where I feel the PvP community has a lot to answer for. Though they have paid their own consequences, as their gameplay and community has suffered. They want the classes in balance, to be able to play whatever they feel like, and be able to win. Their consequences? Players don't come to this game for PvP, they came for PvE and played PvP as a side project, an extra bit of intense fun. They have effectively killed off the source of new players. Which will result in the loss of renewing their community, which has led to decline as the players that enjoy PvP shrinks every day, week, month year. Every time they get what they ask for, PvP gets worse, they're getting what they want, not what they NEED. PvP players, you have shot yourselves in the foot, repeatedly, and everyone else has suffered for it. The ugliest truth of all, is this is where you find the HIGHEST concentration of players that buy from third party sites. I have no issue with those that choose to buy lots from the zen store. If this game is to survive, revenue must be created to continue to fund new content. Or the game stops, stagnates, perishes. The stagnation and "broken" state of PvP is YOUR OWN FAULT!
Insulting, hating on those that choose to spend their hard earned money, is also a problem. If you think this way, you're WRONG. The developers have to eat too, must make money, unprofitable business, games, companies don't survive. If you don't understand this very simple concept of economics then perhaps you shouldn't be expressing your opinions so loudly in the first place. Once again, this comes from players that can't/won't do it themselves, whether it be from hard economic challenges of their own, or some misbegotten ideology hatred of capitalism, doesn't matter, the end result is the same. Developers time isn’t free, server time, isn't free.
Module 6, was a lot of change. Here, all three mistakes were committed at once. The removal of content, which was angering for ALL. Then the community screamed, SCREAMED that the rework had made things to hard. What do you mean we have to have healers and tanks again? What do you mean I have to build a properly built team?! HOW DARE YOU!! This could have been a very good change, but then the other two mistakes happened at once. The developers cared, and gave the community what it wanted, not what it needed. The lowering of damage and health on the mobs and bosses made it too easy. Too.....easy... if I were in the developers shoes I would have been screaming. What do you silly players WANT?!
Those are my thoughts on the classes and how they're to work together. This has been lost, and the consequences are long reaching. It has come time, and time again from the developers trying to make everyone happy. Giving them what they want, not what they need. If you think the developers are stupid, you are part of the problem. I want you reading this to take a moment and be honest with yourself; if you've thought the developers are stupid, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM! I am guilty of this, I have thought this. It wasn't until recently and a paradigm shift that I realized this was part of the problem my tune has changed. The moment you think someone is stupid, your respect for them drops, immensely. Were I on the development team, and I thought the community thought I was stupid and had no respect for them, my motivation, inspiration, though process would go something along the lines of HAMSTER YOU! The developers aren't stupid. They aren't, the idea, attitude that they are must change. Don't forget, they have bosses/pay masters just li8ke the rest of us they have to answer too. The majority of them are individuals, people, that are doing their best and their hardest to make this game the best it can be and make people happy. Module 6 some of these people lost their jobs, more followed not long after as aftermath. Shame on us, all of us for this. A good example, there was a stream where Andy had a really rough run on his Paladin. The HAMSTER people said made me ill. If you were one of these people, hang your head in shame. We should all hang our heads in shame. There's a large number of players who can't/won't think critically enough to be able to understand this and their own role. They are the ones SCREAMING for classes to be balanced. THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE! They're supposed to be unbalanced to each perform their own roles (huh, roleplaying game, almost like that's supposed to be an integral part of it) and we should have been shielding, defending the developers from these HAMSTER. There are some who did, who tried, my hat is off to you. I wasn't one of them, and I am ashamed.
An attitude change, idea change is hard, are you capable of it. Are you strong enough to admit you're wrong? I was, again and again.
But when everyone's special, no one is.
If you think the developers are stupid, or were wrong for making this choice. YOU ARE WRONG, and part of the problem. Simply because everyone agrees on something, doesn't make it right. Mob mentality is dangerous, is the world flat? Because at one time that was right, and I see this way of thinking reflected here. I want to see it end here. You are only seeing, and demanding, what you want, without understanding or looking to what you need.
NO ! Let me explain why this is maybe the most stupid post i've ever read !
1) Dungeons were'nt reworked and made easier because players asked for them to be, correction, almost and "BIS" players asked for them to be more difficult, wich represent maybe 10% of the whole community. And as a answer, they removed most of them, make a massive gap difficulty wise between T1's and T2's. Tell me how is that the player's fault ? Secondly, how can you assume that the loss of community comes from the fact that the game is too easy ? Because it's definatly not, The massive loss of players is due to mod6 ( content removed, a bunch of things nerfed, more rp introduced) followed by the removal of rough AD's from leadership, coals from tarma bars etc etc... And to finish, why being so offensive to PVP players? i mean, most of the things they complain about are completly justified (perma root, perma buble, perma stealth etc...)... By the way, devs are not stupid, well, that remains to be seen, cause if they keep pushing the playerbase that way, they'll end loose everything...
I would like to say that I get where you are coming from. But from what I just read you sound a little...off? I DO NOT like to be called a hypocrite buy someone who THINKS he has something of worth to say. Point of fact 1 "Having coalescent wards removed from the tarmalune trade bar store was frustrating, seen as a bit and switch." Point of fact 2 " Everyone hates the pay 2 win, and yet when they remove one of the things that was putting the pay 2 winners further ahead, they hate on them. Hypocrisy, thy name is gamer. We can't see across the board the effects these changes happen. Partly because most don't WANT too. I would be BiS by now, sporting all rank 12s had they not made that change, frustrating yes... Point of fact 3 WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT I NEED?
So first YOU call everyone out. Then you admit to being one of the players who helped ruin the AD market by saying that YOU would have been maxed out had the devs not stepped in. WTF?
Second O very very young one, "I" have been gaming for 35 YEARS and I have played it all. I started with SPACE INVADERS. {Look it up} I have earned my title as GRIZZLED ANCIENT. I earned it playing against challenges like map exploits, WiFi bridging, botting and lets not forget the ever infuriating lag switch. I may have not been here from beta but I will tell you this. "I hate having to play with other people." And do you know why grasshopper? Because we have to many players who have know idea HOW to play the game. You want community players, "I" want competent players. You want more of a challenge, "I" want better communication to face said challenge. {IE having four people in a team and only one mic.} You want everyone to understand how the classes work. "I" say put out a damn guide Devs. You want people to play there class one way. "I" say let the CW be the tank if he/she builds them right, HELL yes let the clothe take point. You can't blame people for mistakes that YOU just said where party to. Should the wards be taken out of the TB store? Yes. Should there be a way to earn them in game? Maybe. But most MMO games take an average of 3 years to work the kinks out anyway. And when you do find what works. You get magic. Case in point I just left a guild that had top players, hardcore players, casual players you name it. We had a good thing going. Then Life got in the way. People had jobs, had school est est. I took some time off, came back and it was a ghost town. No activity for 4 months. So I left for something more. I get invited to a raw lvl 1 guild...no I was invited to a raw lvl 1 family. And like before we have all kinds. What is different with my family is we are all willing to LEARN to play together, to play BETTER.
What has caused the "loss of player" base as you call it is the loss of the people who think that a free to play game means "free to exploit, cheat or otherwise find loop holes to get ahead waaayy to fast". You know the "people" who "you" just proved where a part of. See I gave up on being mad at the idiots out there. {and yes there are a lot of them} Because what is tested and proven true will last. There are a lot of bought/sold accounts out there. I did a run with someone's first time playing the game AT LVL 70 and had no idea what he was doing. He said his buddy sold the account to him because the devs are working at making it to hard for the previous owner to run his third party business. So I spent 4 hours teaching this young man how to build, play and stay alive with a fresh toon. He had a blast. I had a migraine, but it was a well earned migraine. It was worth it because that young man had LEARNED "HIS" way to have fun. We keep in touch and play when we cross paths. And he is a better gamer for it. Why? Because he now understands what it takes to get a TOON ahead. We may be at a crossroads in the game. And it will take EVERYONE involved to steer it down the path that the game should to go. There are going to be loners like me out there. There are going to be social butterfly's like my Guild Master. And we are different gamer's. But we are ALL still Gamer's. And what we ALL share is our love of the game. So do all of us a favor and remember this. "LET HE OR SHE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE."
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Back in the early days of Dungeons & Dragons, we commonly had dungeons with many levels to them. New characters would carefully explore the first level of the dungeon and dread falling down a shoot to the third level. As characters gained power, the party would discuss whether they dare move down to the 2nd level of the dungeon. That deeper layer was filled with anticipation and possibly doom. Going deeper and deeper into the dungeon was something worked toward; something earned.
The current Neverwinter dungeon structure could be slightly reworked to create that same experience. Rather than having trash mobs and intermediate bosses be speed bumps on the way to easy and total victory over Orcus (a demon prince...), how about ramping up difficulty as the party gets further in. Lower geared parties could explore the beginning of a new dungeon with anticipation and anxiety, and possibly decide that the first boss is as far as they dare go (the first boss should drop loot appropriate to that level of party).
Bring back some of the working-toward goals. Give players room to partially succeed, and don't make triumph over the hardest content a given for the average player.
Hi people. I think what everyone fails to realize is that the community HERE it not necessarily the game community as a whole and not representative of the people that are playing the game. This is like 1% of the attention seeking whiney HAMSTER mother loving people who play. I don't spend time on the forums chit chatting and standing on my soapbox. I actually PLAY the game. for some reason im having trouble logging in atm so im dling a patch for STO. (but i digress)
This is the first time i have ever posted in the NW forums. Frankly I am not a fan of forums. I worked for a company that had a forum and dealt with the HAMSTER and moan about all the changes they made. I do read on here about updates and general information i need to PLAY the game.
Oftentimes, however reading the drivel on here feels like the same HAMSTER different smell.
Y'all whine, they do what you want, y'all whine more. Meanwhile the entire time you are shooting yourselves in the foot not only because YOUR changes aren;t necessarily what is what the community [that plays the game instead of chit chatting on here] wants, not only because YOUR changes aren't necessarily the best choices for the game, Not only because you guys are really busy here bitching and moaning while others are playing the actual game.
But also because at some point, they are just going to say HAMSTER'em and remove you entirely as a customer base and focus on a group of less whiney people without a voice. Meanwhile you HAMSTER over all the new people joining this game.
I am new, and have only been here a few months. I have leveled a TR to 70 2600 ilevel, an OP to 70 2660 ilevel-- SW il2000/ CW/ HR to 70 [alliance gear], i also have a DC/GWF in their high 60s GF at 50 and a second OP at 20.
Yeah yeah, i have no life... and yeah I've spent a little actual monies. I do an awful lot of grinding for gear for salvage and play a stupidly ridiculous amount of time everyday. im not in zone HAMSTER around, im not in moonstone mask doing lord knows what in those little back rooms (ive walked in on some weird HAMSTER going on up in there)
So in regards to the Lostmauth set. Who the HAMSTER cares. now it works as intended. People cant slam the HAMSTER out of dungeons in 3 seconds. I have the lostmauth set on my TR.
But my HIGHER iLEVEL OP can no longer play things my TR can. Yeah i got a respec - yippiekayay. Cool I get to rethink my entire game, i get to start from scratch everything i have been building towards and the fact that i JUST got my OP to CN and now i cant play. I cant HAMSTER play the game. I now have a really awesome character i cant use anymore, until i rethink my entire build, rework everything and basically render everything i was striving towards useless. I get that an adjustment needed to be made, Im not whining that i cant be all stupidly OP but now I cant get through any epic content.
So thanks guys for breaking my character for your HAMSTER measuring contest (pvp) take your pvp to pvp based games.
Ive been kicked out of PVEs right after joining because they didnt like my ilevel of 2300 which only discouraged me from joining any epic queues for weeks. That is the game that you've created here. A game that doesn't welcome people, that makes people sit in PUG queues for hours if they want to do anything that might possibly drop anything remotely useful and then get booted.
I wont be wasting any more money on this game. Thanks for alienating me. I appreciate it.
I'd run with you. I've had the "low il" rejection before.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Some excellent responses, some not so much. Some well thought out, some not so much. Some very contributory, and some that are exactly the proof, as to the challenge faced by the community. One of my favorite things to do in dealing with others is to create opportunity. Double edged I find is the best, offer the chance to excel and succeed. While also providing the chance for someone to hang themselves, fail, and prove to themselves and those around they’re part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution.
Many out right agreed, to them I say thank you for adding your voice in chorus with mine.
Many out right disagreed and did so on not such a nice way, but certainly not very well thought out way. You’re the ones I’m most targeting and those like you.
One of my favorite parts of Kitchen Nightmares is how often, those that were the biggest contributors to the problem always seemed to believe otherwise. Something about ignorance and arrogance going hand in hand. First thing that Gordon had to do was to break through to them. Usually to a rather grand display of emotion, anger, despair, etc. etc. This is how I see you..
If you don’t feel like watching the whole thing, don’t blame you. Skip forward to 22 minutes in. You want to deny, you want to fight, you want to believe you have no responsibility. You’re wrong. Those that felt I pinned the whole thing on the PvP community, you’re wrong again,. I said EVERYONE!! Which means you as well. If you think I was saying that, perhaps you’re a little over sensitive because you feel this gets thrown around a lot. Why does it get thrown around a lot I wonder? Or maybe you understand that the state PvP is in right now, is because the community has gotten what it deserved.
The PvE community is also in this state. It has been pointed out VERY ACCURATLEY, that what is represented here in the forums is but a fraction of a fraction of the community as a whole. Some of the most toxic thoughts and view points for sure. I greatly appreciate the number of people who have taken time to post, with VERY low post counts. This is evidence of that very idea, that many on this forum are only here to represent their own greedy, short sighted wants and demands.
A couple have said that I’m being hypocritical, that I myself say I want things when calling everyone out on this very thing. I’M CALLING OUT EVERYONE. This includes myself, and admitting my wrong doing in this regards. “Oh well, because you’re doing it, that means what you’re saying is meaningless, the point and the idea is meaningless” Well glory be, I might be wrong… How many times do I have to admit that? That’s why I confessed to being one of those, to show that an idea and attitude can change. Am I right? These people might not agree, or disagree entirely @telprydain@uptondarkdiamond@thefabricant@magenubbie@silverkelt@checkmatein3@sw1tchstar@armadeonx@xaansteel@tripsofthrymr
But each was able to bring a different idea to the table. It was pointed out that one bit of history I had was incorrect, the change from mod 5 to mod 6 and the NPC bug, another that some part of the idea could be tweaked. The point of the matter is, this is how wrong can go to right, many voice contributing. To those that did, thank you, EVEN IF you thought I had it 75% wrong, I still appreciate the contribution. The attitudes as a whole must change and we can only do this, together.
The point…..stands
The attitudes of many, is in an entitled, woe is me I’ll whine about it until I get my way. Attitude is everything, and it is one of the things in this world we have true control and choice in, over many little choices. Or you end up like the people on Kitchen Nightmares needing someone smacking you awake. The developers haven’t put us in this position, we have. Don’t forget one massive contributing factor, they work, under staffed. Why are they under staffed? We’ve seen a couple of excellent changes in the last bit. The fix to Lostmauth while frustrating, has opened up possibilities, not closed them. All sorts of other ideas and builds are possible and viable. The changes to the elemental evil campaign are EXCELLENT! I damn near say fun, enjoyable. The developers are doing good work, and they’re doing it for us. And we’re spitting in their faces and calling them stupid. If you agree with me, awesome. Put your money where your mouth is and back them up, protect them from those that are to selfish, short sighted, whatever, to be able to understand the harm they’re doing. To those that found themselves on the last list, I need you, to keep doing what you’re doing. I cannot be wholly right or wrong. I instead need other voices to help me and help each other. To those that in the middle group, well, I may be a VERY VERY VERY young (you’re right, I’ve only been gaming for 25 years you perfect example of ignorance and arrogance going hand in hand) gamer, player, however I can and will admit when maybe, just maybe, I have the wrong of something and my attitude needs an adjustment.
I put a great deal of thought into that first post, even slept on it before releasing it to make sure it was one I wanted to go forward on. Yes some of it I had wrong, the idea in it, the point that should be truly acknowledged.. STANDS
Bonk - Damage dealing machine and midnight lover of all things tasty
The fastest way to get people to completely ignore your point is by attacking them. Most of what I read is just a rant at what other people are doing wrong - and I've done my best to ignore that and see what you're actually saying.
Why are you tagging/naming people just because they disagree with you? They have every right to disagree. It's called an opinion and just because you have one it doesn't make you right - or wrong. These things are mostly subjective.
You've put out such a one sided, childish rant that piles assumption on top of prejudice that I'm getting bored just replying...
Please don't tag me again, I really don't wish to look at this thread again.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
In retrospect, I would like to add, it was pointed out accurately, that I am being very general. Simplistic, painting a picture that needs more colour. I agree, there are some who have helped to add their colours. Thank you, I have to keep it kind of general and simplistic or I'll end up writing walls of text xD
Bonk - Damage dealing machine and midnight lover of all things tasty
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
As this thread has devolved into people making personal attacks just because they do not agree with that person's opinion, this thread is now closed.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Comments
First, there was a shift in the model by which Perfect World wanted its profit stream to be sustained. The early mods were based on large player bases (with a lot of F2P players, medium amounts of paying players, and always a few whales). The difference is that paying did not give you access via statistical RNG to items not able to be obtained. Paying sped up the process by which you could obtain top gear that you could have grinded for, because drops were unbound until you equipped them. The economy was fine (*cough* Caturday and Astral Resonance *cough*), because it was truly Pay to Go Faster. But, it is usually the case that newly released games still function on a base of investor cash that eventually is gone. So, the need to make money to hit profit goals while also creating new content (through paid programmers) is needed. The large F2P base, although providing energy and excitement in the game to all, did nothing for the profit goal directly. So, there was a vice-like application over several mods to increase the purchases of zen in the game (introduction of refining system, companions with bonuses, and on and on). Like the proverbial frog in the water, the heat was slowly turned up via pay walls (no longer Pay-to-go-faster, but pay-to-win). What is the difference? P2W is when items that are End-Game and BiS cannot be earned in any way through regular play. The large F2P base of players jumped ship and tried anything else, the mid-range payers stayed, hoping for their voice to be heard, and the whales were largely unaffected, just maximizing the means of making more game profits. So, the target was to focus on the large mid-payers. Then, the micro-transaction model came in. Lower cost per purchase, high RNG, which means the playing style became less about a continuous progression (like going through the T1 dungeons to get gear suitable for T2 and then running T2), and more like a step-wise progression (no advancement until you hit that big RNG score, and then lots of immediate improvement). Even today, rather than 'grinding' out sets that give gradual improvement, the player base gravitates to the big score possibilities (whether for AD purposes or character improvement). Don't believe me? How many of you have run artificer's workshop just for the RNG chance at the beholder tank?
Second, the developers forgot that Neverwinter is not a sand-box MMO, but a lore-based, hub-arranged MMORPG. Early reviews of Neverwinter praised the foundry system and later re-reviewers lamented how Cryptic never examined how the foundry could be used as a profit stream for them, as in other MMOs (not named due to rules violations). The modules are all hubs of lore, that were somewhat interconnected through the Valindra story, but then were abandoned with mod 6 and 7, and are blurred beyond recognition with mod 8 and 9 (although I love the lore in mod 8 and 9). The hubs are underdeveloped (Sharandar, Dread Ring, IWD, Well of Dragons, Underdark... *cough* *cough*). And the reason for this is the shift in development model, when Cryptic must follow releases by Wizards of the Coast, to match the table top releases. So, programmers work furiously to develop content that meets contractural obiligations for WoTC, and release untested, unfinished, imperfect content to the player base. And, before the devlopers can go back and fix broken content, the priority is to drive the new, because that is what WoTC wants. Moreover, the time to brainstorm new ideas is probably not available to the poor Cryptic developers. I am amazed that the programmers get anything done at all with a two-tiered head of profit margins from Perfect World and content-control from WoTC.
Finally, the player-base has grown accustomed to the instant-gratification that RNG step-wise progression can give. The microtransaction model may be good for profit, but it also generates a behavior and expectation in the game. This bleeds over into the complaints about difficulty of content, whether too hard (for those who are levelling up and trying to do it the old fashion continuous progression way) to too easy (the BiS PvP and PvErs who know they are OP but still want more). Greed and instant gratification has set in, and I honestly have no idea how Cryptic would scale back out of the current system and still maintain profit goals that are dictated to them. Mod 6 and Mod 7 Strongholds were attempts to create the old style mutually-dependent system, but all it really did was make guilds (for the most part) means by which to be provide instant gratification with the boons, which are no small feature. It is hard to overlook the increase that these boons give in light of the whole game and content, especially if content is planned around an assumption that players will have at least X boons from their guild. But of course, this creates the disparity between the 'haves' in elite guilds with all big boon bonuses and the 'have nots' in the smaller guilds that want to group for other reasons. If you want more proof, consider the pursuit of glitches in dps by those who do not just want damage that can adequately finish content, but can destroy it in seconds and call it BiS: OP + GF reflect synergy, Briartwine reflect, Lostmauth set, Orcus set, Original Tenebrous enchant and its ICD, the current Bonding stone stacking, the SW puppet eternal spawn (remember PvP with 100 of these and teams of 5 SWs dominating), and more. Each time one was found, the player base gravitated to it, not content with grinding out a boon for 400 more power, but wanted to hit for 200 Million or more, because in light of the glitch, the regular stuff just looks depressingly useless. And this affects the in-game economy and mechanics and party invites (HDPS for MC or VT anyone??? Why? Its a T1). Yes, there was a smaller contingent of elite players in the early mods who dominated, but it was just that...small. Now, it is considered the norm, or you are cut out.
In conclusion, I do not wholly disagree with your post. But, I think you miss the mark somewhat.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
As far as weapons even the CN stuff got dirt cheap long before mod 5. Even before artifact weapons CN stuff fell behind the stuff you had to create from drops in MC and VT.
I'm a solo player, Ive never had a leadership army, I rarely run dungeons, Ive never had more then a few hundred thousand AD at any given time. Yet, I had 5 characters in T2 gear by mod 2. And not a single one of them set foot into a dungeon until AFTER they got geared.
TR gear ran way more expensive.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
I think what everyone fails to realize is that the community HERE it not necessarily the game community as a whole and not representative of the people that are playing the game. This is like 1% of the attention seeking whiney HAMSTER mother loving people who play. I don't spend time on the forums chit chatting and standing on my soapbox. I actually PLAY the game. for some reason im having trouble logging in atm so im dling a patch for STO. (but i digress)
This is the first time i have ever posted in the NW forums. Frankly I am not a fan of forums. I worked for a company that had a forum and dealt with the HAMSTER and moan about all the changes they made. I do read on here about updates and general information i need to PLAY the game.
Oftentimes, however reading the drivel on here feels like the same HAMSTER different smell.
Y'all whine, they do what you want, y'all whine more. Meanwhile the entire time you are shooting yourselves in the foot not only because YOUR changes aren;t necessarily what is what the community [that plays the game instead of chit chatting on here] wants, not only because YOUR changes aren't necessarily the best choices for the game, Not only because you guys are really busy here bitching and moaning while others are playing the actual game.
But also because at some point, they are just going to say HAMSTER'em and remove you entirely as a customer base and focus on a group of less whiney people without a voice. Meanwhile you HAMSTER over all the new people joining this game.
I am new, and have only been here a few months.
I have leveled a TR to 70 2600 ilevel, an OP to 70 2660 ilevel-- SW il2000/ CW/ HR to 70 [alliance gear], i also have a DC/GWF in their high 60s GF at 50 and a second OP at 20.
Yeah yeah, i have no life... and yeah I've spent a little actual monies. I do an awful lot of grinding for gear for salvage and play a stupidly ridiculous amount of time everyday. im not in zone HAMSTER around, im not in moonstone mask doing lord knows what in those little back rooms (ive walked in on some weird HAMSTER going on up in there)
So in regards to the Lostmauth set. Who the HAMSTER cares. now it works as intended. People cant slam the HAMSTER out of dungeons in 3 seconds. I have the lostmauth set on my TR.
But my HIGHER iLEVEL OP can no longer play things my TR can. Yeah i got a respec - yippiekayay. Cool I get to rethink my entire game, i get to start from scratch everything i have been building towards and the fact that i JUST got my OP to CN and now i cant play. I cant HAMSTER play the game. I now have a really awesome character i cant use anymore, until i rethink my entire build, rework everything and basically render everything i was striving towards useless. I get that an adjustment needed to be made, Im not whining that i cant be all stupidly OP but now I cant get through any epic content.
So thanks guys for breaking my character for your HAMSTER measuring contest (pvp)
take your pvp to pvp based games.
Ive been kicked out of PVEs right after joining because they didnt like my ilevel of 2300 which only discouraged me from joining any epic queues for weeks. That is the game that you've created here. A game that doesn't welcome people, that makes people sit in PUG queues for hours if they want to do anything that might possibly drop anything remotely useful and then get booted.
I wont be wasting any more money on this game. Thanks for alienating me. I appreciate it.
Certainly, players are usually biased toward their class & the most whiny are always those that want their class buffed while having another nerfed. This nearly always ignores 'balance of utility' across the classes.
Cryptic should take the position of listening to feedback but not following it. It's feedback but it's not necessarily truth due to players personal bias.
There are three major issues that really need serious attention:
Class utility - i.e. every class has a role & position of equal value to the game
Bug fixing - skills not working as intended/described - that's just shoddy work tbh & should take no. 1 priority
Effort = Reward - players run elol as it's quick & the rewards are equal to or better than T2's. Dungeon rewards should be structured so that more difficulty + more time means more reward at the end.
If they addressed these 3 issues the forums would become quite a boring place as there'd be not much left to complain about...
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The only reason people feel any different is because of the endless quest for refining items. It feels like pressure to do everything as fast a possible to earn AD to buy things to make yourself stronger to be able to get into groups who want to speed through things to get more refining items to be strong enough to get more refining items.
The major reason why dungeons and dragons is so fun is that it's a QUEST with a TEAM that's SOCIAL and has mystery to it. I hate the speed run LFM 3000+, grind grind grind, no talking, rush ahead. It's a fantastic game with fantastic controls, world and lore. If the devs could do anything, while still keeping their revenue model, it would be to allow those main pieces of gear, the body, the boots, the weapons, the rings (srsly the best rings in the game you get by doing professions????) to be hard-earned through random boss drops in dungeons and statistically worth more in terms of power relative to the refined stuff than they are now (honestly don't like artifact gear that much, artifacts and refining stones are fine). And hey, demogorgon is a good thing, and I'm very glad it's harder now, and I'll be earning my twisted weapons, although I'd like it to not be so Tiamat-y where you do it for campaign currency and then just buy it.
Good game has been getting better recently. I also very much like the effort to make things more of a story path rather than a grind fest. And I hope they find a way to add the elements that they know full well are the most fun back into the game while still making enough to keep the game running smoothly and create new content. We, the fans of DnD and Forgotten Realms, who like to chat and have fun and play a real challenge, the legits, very much enjoy the game because we know how to enjoy it. It could be better, we all know that, but there's a lot of good when you're part of one mindset and not the most toxic one, the grindset :P Both devs and players can do more to reduce the grindset. Grindset-free isn't lack of effort and just fool around, it means relishing the opportunities to have the best "flow" (from psychology, look it up) experiences, and the best team experiences in the pursuit of progress
And it was truly fantastic over a year ago before I took a long break, I come back and various bad incentives and ridiculously overpowered players have done something bad to the playerbase. Man was doing dungeons fun when it took longer and you expected it to take longer and there was more reward for doing it.
Understand how the mind works. Very much agree with the previous comments about the power-gaining system. Understand just how valuable to the experience that moment where you just worked really hard and, WHOAAA, this DROPPED and I had needed this specifically is. That's glorious. It's a good thing if it's a random drop. Stuff to sell on the auction house is also good, rewards for just being there in the meantime keep players satisfied until they get their big moment, their new piece.
So keep working on it, everyone.
NO ! Let me explain why this is maybe the most stupid post i've ever read !
1) Dungeons were'nt reworked and made easier because players asked for them to be, correction, almost and "BIS" players asked for them to be more difficult, wich represent maybe 10% of the whole community.
And as a answer, they removed most of them, make a massive gap difficulty wise between T1's and T2's.
Tell me how is that the player's fault ?
Secondly, how can you assume that the loss of community comes from the fact that the game is too easy ? Because it's definatly not, The massive loss of players is due to mod6 ( content removed, a bunch of things nerfed, more rp introduced) followed by the removal of rough AD's from leadership, coals from tarma bars etc etc...
And to finish, why being so offensive to PVP players? i mean, most of the things they complain about are completly justified (perma root, perma buble, perma stealth etc...)...
By the way, devs are not stupid, well, that remains to be seen, cause if they keep pushing the playerbase that way, they'll end loose everything...
I DO NOT like to be called a hypocrite buy someone who THINKS he has something of worth to say. Point of fact 1 "Having coalescent wards removed from the tarmalune trade bar store was frustrating, seen as a bit and switch." Point of fact 2 " Everyone hates the pay 2 win, and yet when they remove one of the things that was putting the pay 2 winners further ahead, they hate on them. Hypocrisy, thy name is gamer. We can't see across the board the effects these changes happen. Partly because most don't WANT too. I would be BiS by now, sporting all rank 12s had they not made that change, frustrating yes...
Point of fact 3 WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT I NEED?
So first YOU call everyone out. Then you admit to being one of the players who helped ruin the AD market by saying that YOU would have been maxed out had the devs not stepped in. WTF?
Second O very very young one, "I" have been gaming for 35 YEARS and I have played it all. I started with SPACE INVADERS. {Look it up} I have earned my title as GRIZZLED ANCIENT. I earned it playing against challenges like map exploits, WiFi bridging, botting and lets not forget the ever infuriating lag switch. I may have not been here from beta but I will tell you this. "I hate having to play with other people." And do you know why grasshopper? Because we have to many players who have know idea HOW to play the game. You want community players, "I" want competent players. You want more of a challenge, "I" want better communication to face said challenge. {IE having four people in a team and only one mic.} You want everyone to understand how the classes work. "I" say put out a damn guide Devs. You want people to play there class one way. "I" say let the CW be the tank if he/she builds them right, HELL yes let the clothe take point. You can't blame people for mistakes that YOU just said where party to. Should the wards be taken out of the TB store? Yes. Should there be a way to earn them in game? Maybe. But most MMO games take an average of 3 years to work the kinks out anyway. And when you do find what works. You get magic. Case in point I just left a guild that had top players, hardcore players, casual players you name it. We had a good thing going. Then Life got in the way. People had jobs, had school est est. I took some time off, came back and it was a ghost town. No activity for 4 months. So I left for something more. I get invited to a raw lvl 1 guild...no I was invited to a raw lvl 1 family. And like before we have all kinds. What is different with my family is we are all willing to LEARN to play together, to play BETTER.
What has caused the "loss of player" base as you call it is the loss of the people who think that a free to play game means "free to exploit, cheat or otherwise find loop holes to get ahead waaayy to fast". You know the "people" who "you" just proved where a part of. See I gave up on being mad at the idiots out there. {and yes there are a lot of them} Because what is tested and proven true will last. There are a lot of bought/sold accounts out there. I did a run with someone's first time playing the game AT LVL 70 and had no idea what he was doing. He said his buddy sold the account to him because the devs are working at making it to hard for the previous owner to run his third party business. So I spent 4 hours teaching this young man how to build, play and stay alive with a fresh toon. He had a blast. I had a migraine, but it was a well earned migraine. It was worth it because that young man had LEARNED "HIS" way to have fun. We keep in touch and play when we cross paths. And he is a better gamer for it. Why? Because he now understands what it takes to get a TOON ahead. We may be at a crossroads in the game. And it will take EVERYONE involved to steer it down the path that the game should to go. There are going to be loners like me out there. There are going to be social butterfly's like my Guild Master. And we are different gamer's. But we are ALL still Gamer's. And what we ALL share is our love of the game. So do all of us a favor and remember this. "LET HE OR SHE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE."
The current Neverwinter dungeon structure could be slightly reworked to create that same experience. Rather than having trash mobs and intermediate bosses be speed bumps on the way to easy and total victory over Orcus (a demon prince...), how about ramping up difficulty as the party gets further in. Lower geared parties could explore the beginning of a new dungeon with anticipation and anxiety, and possibly decide that the first boss is as far as they dare go (the first boss should drop loot appropriate to that level of party).
Bring back some of the working-toward goals. Give players room to partially succeed, and don't make triumph over the hardest content a given for the average player.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Many out right agreed, to them I say thank you for adding your voice in chorus with mine.
@grogthemagnif @tousseau @grandpaxxx @durugudesu @crainium @mischievousxspirit @lirithiel
Many out right disagreed and did so on not such a nice way, but certainly not very well thought out way. You’re the ones I’m most targeting and those like you.
@omegaosprey @rapo973 @vinceent1 @metalldjt @blinxon @theslotharmy @mrderpherpin @sockmunkey @revan06100 @hypnoticbeast
One of my favorite parts of Kitchen Nightmares is how often, those that were the biggest contributors to the problem always seemed to believe otherwise. Something about ignorance and arrogance going hand in hand. First thing that Gordon had to do was to break through to them. Usually to a rather grand display of emotion, anger, despair, etc. etc. This is how I see you..
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ay7e2U4aYhY>
If you don’t feel like watching the whole thing, don’t blame you. Skip forward to 22 minutes in. You want to deny, you want to fight, you want to believe you have no responsibility. You’re wrong. Those that felt I pinned the whole thing on the PvP community, you’re wrong again,. I said EVERYONE!! Which means you as well. If you think I was saying that, perhaps you’re a little over sensitive because you feel this gets thrown around a lot. Why does it get thrown around a lot I wonder? Or maybe you understand that the state PvP is in right now, is because the community has gotten what it deserved.
The PvE community is also in this state. It has been pointed out VERY ACCURATLEY, that what is represented here in the forums is but a fraction of a fraction of the community as a whole. Some of the most toxic thoughts and view points for sure. I greatly appreciate the number of people who have taken time to post, with VERY low post counts. This is evidence of that very idea, that many on this forum are only here to represent their own greedy, short sighted wants and demands.
A couple have said that I’m being hypocritical, that I myself say I want things when calling everyone out on this very thing. I’M CALLING OUT EVERYONE. This includes myself, and admitting my wrong doing in this regards. “Oh well, because you’re doing it, that means what you’re saying is meaningless, the point and the idea is meaningless” Well glory be, I might be wrong… How many times do I have to admit that? That’s why I confessed to being one of those, to show that an idea and attitude can change. Am I right? These people might not agree, or disagree entirely
@telprydain @uptondarkdiamond @thefabricant @magenubbie @silverkelt @checkmatein3 @sw1tchstar @armadeonx @xaansteel @tripsofthrymr
But each was able to bring a different idea to the table. It was pointed out that one bit of history I had was incorrect, the change from mod 5 to mod 6 and the NPC bug, another that some part of the idea could be tweaked. The point of the matter is, this is how wrong can go to right, many voice contributing. To those that did, thank you, EVEN IF you thought I had it 75% wrong, I still appreciate the contribution. The attitudes as a whole must change and we can only do this, together.
The point…..stands
The attitudes of many, is in an entitled, woe is me I’ll whine about it until I get my way. Attitude is everything, and it is one of the things in this world we have true control and choice in, over many little choices. Or you end up like the people on Kitchen Nightmares needing someone smacking you awake. The developers haven’t put us in this position, we have. Don’t forget one massive contributing factor, they work, under staffed. Why are they under staffed? We’ve seen a couple of excellent changes in the last bit. The fix to Lostmauth while frustrating, has opened up possibilities, not closed them. All sorts of other ideas and builds are possible and viable. The changes to the elemental evil campaign are EXCELLENT! I damn near say fun, enjoyable. The developers are doing good work, and they’re doing it for us. And we’re spitting in their faces and calling them stupid. If you agree with me, awesome. Put your money where your mouth is and back them up, protect them from those that are to selfish, short sighted, whatever, to be able to understand the harm they’re doing. To those that found themselves on the last list, I need you, to keep doing what you’re doing. I cannot be wholly right or wrong. I instead need other voices to help me and help each other. To those that in the middle group, well, I may be a VERY VERY VERY young (you’re right, I’ve only been gaming for 25 years you perfect example of ignorance and arrogance going hand in hand) gamer, player, however I can and will admit when maybe, just maybe, I have the wrong of something and my attitude needs an adjustment.
I put a great deal of thought into that first post, even slept on it before releasing it to make sure it was one I wanted to go forward on. Yes some of it I had wrong, the idea in it, the point that should be truly acknowledged.. STANDS
The first inner look at majesty - https://youtu.be/8Yavk790hMA
The second build and some fun - https://youtu.be/b5U0H-Mdkxg
A little update - https://youtu.be/0F-qUKOv4UU
The thread where this can be found - http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1210188/bonk-a-tale-of-damage
Why are you tagging/naming people just because they disagree with you? They have every right to disagree. It's called an opinion and just because you have one it doesn't make you right - or wrong. These things are mostly subjective.
You've put out such a one sided, childish rant that piles assumption on top of prejudice that I'm getting bored just replying...
Please don't tag me again, I really don't wish to look at this thread again.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The first inner look at majesty - https://youtu.be/8Yavk790hMA
The second build and some fun - https://youtu.be/b5U0H-Mdkxg
A little update - https://youtu.be/0F-qUKOv4UU
The thread where this can be found - http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1210188/bonk-a-tale-of-damage
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!