my post was suggestions to devs - somethings to consider... there might be more off-course
the point is if we are positive and at least accept tht we should start somewhere and try prioritize the seriously broken stuff as a starting point we might get somewhere ...
its no point for almost everyone to be a critic .. but i guess thats the way of the world today and why we r where we are.
what i am urging is for those who do agree to stand up and fight this fight with me before its too late.
This is a good game - if it wasn't we would not be here .. i would not be here typing this but some changes are needed tom make a good game GREAT.
First, in general, the massive gear gap. There's a lot of ways to address this, but the bottom line is that whales are getting too fat in PvP, which makes the small fish avoid it. They can reduce the impact of stats by applying different stat curves, give people boosts with diminishing returns to high-end gear, boosting low-geared players more, or some other variation to reduce the impact of gear and stronghold boons (without removing it completely, which is apparently a selling point to some). One quick and easy middle-of-the-road approach: Give everyone certain class-based stat boosts when they enter PvP (like +4,000 Power, +2,000 Crit, etc) then halve stats from every other source -- gear, boons, consumables. That would help level the playing field between players a lot without making gear investment meaningless, and could serve as a balance lever between classes to help balance out certain class-specific options that are too strong.
Second, there's the issue of general broken mechanical elements. Drains are a major issue; if they don't want to remove them, make wards available to everyone at least, or make drains have less of an impact overall. Stealth from stuff like Ambush Rings remains an issue -- it would be fine to have them to ensure unimpeded mobility, but not as a combat feature. Vision Rings are a good addition to the game, though. The recent addition of insignias put healing through the roof for everyone, which needs to be reduced by a lot -- healing depression doesn't seem to apply, which just seems extremely shoddy. Finally, even with AP gain DCs nerfed, the massive action point gain and daily spamming some characters are autonomously capable of is a problem as well -- a lot of dailies should be given hard cooldowns. TRs should not be spamming Courage Breaker back to back, CWs should not be spamming Oppressive Force, GFs should not be spamming Crescendo, and so on.
Finally, there's the issue of specific class balance. OPs are already being dealt with, DCs will be less broken as well. GFs, GWFs and TRs all overperfom a bit to a lot in different ways, while CWs, SWs and HRs are weak in various ways (but all still useful in some ways) and need some boosts, especially of their damage potential (but may need nerfs in other ways to compensate). However, there are so many things that need fine-tuning here that it's a nearly impossible mess.
The first element is actually the most crucial, but also perhaps the hardest to address because it goes directly to the issue of their business model for PvP. As it is, that model has pretty collapsed as PvP is now a ghost town. It seems the elements they add that affect PvP are often badly designed -- to reduce the quality of the play experience by adding gear options that can be grinded for in other parts of the game.
Good Post Luusi
I would like to add to what you said at start of your post and come back to my Point nr 10) Try bracket PVP (highest Gear score always counts - to avoid un-equip/equip of equipment for queuing etc) 2k-3k ; 3k-4k ; 4k+ (with separate leader-boards and history at previous level of combat)
When i first thought of this i came to the conclusion tht the devs wont create these brackets cause they are forced to make sure the players send money .. and obviously everyone want to compete in PVP but unless you farm for 5 years or spend your cash on ZEN and exchange for ad to buy what you need ...PVP is out of the picture ... thts why the curren t PVP community is very small .. the concept as it exists now is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE
so what then ?? ... 2k players will keep getting smashed by higher geared players with no chance no matter what skills they have .. ? this is not clever so in order to keep everyone happy i came to the idea of creating these separate instances (as more will play and enjoy pvp if this can be created) BUT the clincher is have leader-boards tht reflect how you performed at the lower levels 2k-3k etc..
which means there is still and always a driving force for lower geared players but then when they have gear to compete at next level their history remains ... and obviously you don't wanna compete at lower levels forever .. as the ultimate party would be 4k+ ...
This is a win win situation for the stakeholders and investors as well as the pvp community
and like i said before .. this is a great start and this type of balance will spam interest for many players who don't even bother cause they have no means to buy better gear and only have limited time to play and would rather pve with friends than just get annihilated by premades for first two minutes and call GG - repeat ... uuurgghhh
so i agree ... this would be and should be first priority .. good call !
So, you are an HR or CW who wants everyone nerfed but yourself? GWF lost Temp HP, and now LM. GWF needs a major defensive buff for PVP, and a dodge.
We all know that some GWFs will always consider themselves victims until they can win a gauntlgrym match by themselves. The idea that a class that has not one but two control immunity mechanics, one of which also provides a 50% buff to damage resistance actually needs a defense buff is beyond ridiculous, and no one will take the idea seriously. A heavily armored melee class that already has Sprint - which contradicts the entire character of the class and shouldn't exist at all - needs a dodge? No.
What it needs for balance is a nerf to damage and the requirement that collision mechanics should actually apply to the class. This means sure strike should have to be aimed to the same extent as, say, Duelist's Flurry, instead of being a button-mashing AoE power. It needs a hard cooldown to unstoppable too. Your emphatic denial is taken as read, don't worry.
I'd suggest that every last daily should have a hard cooldown in pvp. 30 seconds for everything except disruptive shot, which is at 10 seconds for good reasons. Since HRs already have to deal with a 30 second hard cooldown on forest ghost (which is buggy anyway) and meditation, and daily spamming especially by TRs is a huge problem, this is obvious.
Ambush rings and drains just need to go, I agree. The shadowclad fix is supposedly on its way, and it's about time.
GF and GWF prones, along with smoke bomb, need to be subject to control resist and mitigation the same as HR and (to a much lesser extent, since they ignore tenacity) CW abilites are. This would deal with the nonsense of one-rotation kills by allowing players to move between the animations of the different abilities used. HR dodges should at least be big enough to get out of AoEs and sure strike and should actually dodge control effects - as should marauder's escape.
The paladin nerf is long past due, but since most of the pvp paladins will just switch to GWF, GF and TR it makes balancing those classes more urgent.
Classes dont need to be nerfed, there just have to be balance. It is OK if a class is immortal, ............... CWs and HRs in my opinion are just where they need to be. Most of them may not be able to Solo many other classes....
i mean really ????????? you want balance but contradict yourself one paragraph later. Your free tip for the day : Dont post when drunk - you'll will achieve more balance and reflect intellect
Well I am very sorry, didn't realise I was talking to a child. Let me break it down for you. Some classes were buffed a certain way because of PvE content difficulties and still are being tuned that way. What we want is BALANCE in PvP, which means, while flagged for pvp such and such ability should behave this or that way. SH boon implementation can be capped or restricted while in Domination and GG etc, Certain rings or enchantments can be disabled while the flag is on, that is not hard to implement.
Calling for GF to be nerfed is just ridiculous, when they do just enough damage in PvE and buff the party well. Classes, while immortal in PvP they still can get one shot in PvE and usually they dont have the type of damage pure PvE specific toons have.
So what I am saying is that the PvP system should be changed not classes.
As for my intellect while I am drunk, if you are ever in the UK and find yourself in Cambridge, I will buy you a pint. But it has to be within the next few months as I am graduating and going back to the U.S.
ScyLent PvE GF Main S C Y L E N T PvE DC Alt ScyLent Lux PvE OP Alt Unrepentantgaming.com
Classes dont need to be nerfed, there just have to be balance. It is OK if a class is immortal, ............... CWs and HRs in my opinion are just where they need to be. Most of them may not be able to Solo many other classes....
i mean really ????????? you want balance but contradict yourself one paragraph later. Your free tip for the day : Dont post when drunk - you'll will achieve more balance and reflect intellect
Well I am very sorry, didn't realise I was talking to a child. Let me break it down for you. Some classes were buffed a certain way because of PvE content difficulties and still are being tuned that way. What we want is BALANCE in PvP, which means, while flagged for pvp such and such ability should behave this or that way. SH boon implementation can be capped or restricted while in Domination and GG etc, Certain rings or enchantments can be disabled while the flag is on, that is not hard to implement.
Calling for GF to be nerfed is just ridiculous, when they do just enough damage in PvE and buff the party well. Classes, while immortal in PvP they still can get one shot in PvE and usually they dont have the type of damage pure PvE specific toons have.
So what I am saying is that the PvP system should be changed not classes.
As for my intellect while I am drunk, if you are ever in the UK and find yourself in Cambridge, I will buy you a pint. But it has to be within the next few months as I am graduating and going back to the U.S.
Classes dont need to be nerfed, there just have to be balance. It is OK if a class is immortal, ............... CWs and HRs in my opinion are just where they need to be. Most of them may not be able to Solo many other classes....
i mean really ????????? you want balance but contradict yourself one paragraph later. Your free tip for the day : Dont post when drunk - you'll will achieve more balance and reflect intellect
Well I am very sorry, didn't realise I was talking to a child. Let me break it down for you. Some classes were buffed a certain way because of PvE content difficulties and still are being tuned that way. What we want is BALANCE in PvP, which means, while flagged for pvp such and such ability should behave this or that way. SH boon implementation can be capped or restricted while in Domination and GG etc, Certain rings or enchantments can be disabled while the flag is on, that is not hard to implement.
Calling for GF to be nerfed is just ridiculous, when they do just enough damage in PvE and buff the party well. Classes, while immortal in PvP they still can get one shot in PvE and usually they dont have the type of damage pure PvE specific toons have.
So what I am saying is that the PvP system should be changed not classes.
As for my intellect while I am drunk, if you are ever in the UK and find yourself in Cambridge, I will buy you a pint. But it has to be within the next few months as I am graduating and going back to the U.S.
uuurgghh ...
never trust anyone tht tries to prove they are clever by saying they went to or are in some well known university ... my experience taught me tht .. u are hilarious .. next time rather keep quiet .. then we might THINK u r intelligent.
if you read some of earlier posts and paid attention like you should've been taught in a university like tht then you will see all you said has been regurgitated a few times.
no need to put in in layman's terms we understood the first time thx prof
Btw .. the whole kid thing is really old surely Cambridge has some new witty stuff ? i say out with the old in with the new !
So, you are an HR or CW who wants everyone nerfed but yourself? GWF lost Temp HP, and now LM. GWF needs a major defensive buff for PVP, and a dodge.
We all know that some GWFs will always consider themselves victims until they can win a gauntlgrym match by themselves. The idea that a class that has not one but two control immunity mechanics, one of which also provides a 50% buff to damage resistance actually needs a defense buff is beyond ridiculous, and no one will take the idea seriously. A heavily armored melee class that already has Sprint - which contradicts the entire character of the class and shouldn't exist at all - needs a dodge? No.
What it needs for balance is a nerf to damage and the requirement that collision mechanics should actually apply to the class. This means sure strike should have to be aimed to the same extent as, say, Duelist's Flurry, instead of being a button-mashing AoE power. It needs a hard cooldown to unstoppable too. Your emphatic denial is taken as read, don't worry.
I'd suggest that every last daily should have a hard cooldown in pvp. 30 seconds for everything except disruptive shot, which is at 10 seconds for good reasons. Since HRs already have to deal with a 30 second hard cooldown on forest ghost (which is buggy anyway) and meditation, and daily spamming especially by TRs is a huge problem, this is obvious.
Ambush rings and drains just need to go, I agree. The shadowclad fix is supposedly on its way, and it's about time.
GF and GWF prones, along with smoke bomb, need to be subject to control resist and mitigation the same as HR and (to a much lesser extent, since they ignore tenacity) CW abilites are. This would deal with the nonsense of one-rotation kills by allowing players to move between the animations of the different abilities used. HR dodges should at least be big enough to get out of AoEs and sure strike and should actually dodge control effects - as should marauder's escape.
The paladin nerf is long past due, but since most of the pvp paladins will just switch to GWF, GF and TR it makes balancing those classes more urgent.
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Thread closed on the grounds that it is a "nerf request" thread. For more information, please refer to Community Rules and Policies and Forum Guidelines on the 3rd comment down, the "No Nerf Requests" rule. Thanks.
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Comments
my post was suggestions to devs - somethings to consider... there might be more off-course
the point is if we are positive and at least accept tht we should start somewhere and try prioritize the seriously broken stuff as a starting point we might get somewhere ...
its no point for almost everyone to be a critic .. but i guess thats the way of the world today and why we r where we are.
what i am urging is for those who do agree to stand up and fight this fight with me before its too late.
This is a good game - if it wasn't we would not be here .. i would not be here typing this but some changes are needed tom make a good game GREAT.
I would like to add to what you said at start of your post and come back to my Point nr 10) Try bracket PVP (highest Gear score always counts - to avoid un-equip/equip of equipment for queuing etc) 2k-3k ; 3k-4k ; 4k+ (with separate leader-boards and history at previous level of combat)
When i first thought of this i came to the conclusion tht the devs wont create these brackets cause they are forced to make sure the players send money .. and obviously everyone want to compete in PVP but unless you farm for 5 years or spend your cash on ZEN and exchange for ad to buy what you need ...PVP is out of the picture ... thts why the curren t PVP community is very small .. the concept as it exists now is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE
so what then ?? ... 2k players will keep getting smashed by higher geared players with no chance no matter what skills they have .. ? this is not clever so in order to keep everyone happy i came to the idea of creating these separate instances (as more will play and enjoy pvp if this can be created) BUT the clincher is have leader-boards tht reflect how you performed at the lower levels 2k-3k etc..
which means there is still and always a driving force for lower geared players but then when they have gear to compete at next level their history remains ... and obviously you don't wanna compete at lower levels forever .. as the ultimate party would be 4k+ ...
This is a win win situation for the stakeholders and investors as well as the pvp community
and like i said before .. this is a great start and this type of balance will spam interest for many players who don't even bother cause they have no means to buy better gear and only have limited time to play and would rather pve with friends than just get annihilated by premades for first two minutes and call GG - repeat ... uuurgghhh
so i agree ... this would be and should be first priority .. good call !
Also the idea from ayroux to Nerf self healing (only during PVP) is a great idea too.
What it needs for balance is a nerf to damage and the requirement that collision mechanics should actually apply to the class. This means sure strike should have to be aimed to the same extent as, say, Duelist's Flurry, instead of being a button-mashing AoE power. It needs a hard cooldown to unstoppable too. Your emphatic denial is taken as read, don't worry.
I'd suggest that every last daily should have a hard cooldown in pvp. 30 seconds for everything except disruptive shot, which is at 10 seconds for good reasons. Since HRs already have to deal with a 30 second hard cooldown on forest ghost (which is buggy anyway) and meditation, and daily spamming especially by TRs is a huge problem, this is obvious.
Ambush rings and drains just need to go, I agree. The shadowclad fix is supposedly on its way, and it's about time.
GF and GWF prones, along with smoke bomb, need to be subject to control resist and mitigation the same as HR and (to a much lesser extent, since they ignore tenacity) CW abilites are. This would deal with the nonsense of one-rotation kills by allowing players to move between the animations of the different abilities used. HR dodges should at least be big enough to get out of AoEs and sure strike and should actually dodge control effects - as should marauder's escape.
The paladin nerf is long past due, but since most of the pvp paladins will just switch to GWF, GF and TR it makes balancing those classes more urgent.
what was ask for in lot´s of threads? balance, less selfheal and much more
What did you get?
Calling for GF to be nerfed is just ridiculous, when they do just enough damage in PvE and buff the party well. Classes, while immortal in PvP they still can get one shot in PvE and usually they dont have the type of damage pure PvE specific toons have.
So what I am saying is that the PvP system should be changed not classes.
As for my intellect while I am drunk, if you are ever in the UK and find yourself in Cambridge, I will buy you a pint. But it has to be within the next few months as I am graduating and going back to the U.S.
ScyLent PvE GF Main
S C Y L E N T PvE DC Alt
ScyLent Lux PvE OP Alt
Unrepentantgaming.com
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!