Can you guys do a test with the Orcus set? Or even the Imperial or Black Ice set? Will the LM set still be the best or do you think another set could be better?
My first toon was a TR - created on the very first day of Open Beta. My second was a CW.
I've played a CW since the first couple weeks out of Beta for Neverwinter. I have run the original CN and Spellplague and all the other dungeons.
Am I the only one who remembers what the "Control" part of Control Wizard is all about? Does anyone actually recall a time, when running CN for example, if you didn't have a CW you didn't make it? Does anyone recall a time in those cramped halls of Castle Never if a Control Wizard wasn't there to Singularity a horde of mobs the run ended in defeat? Having those few extra seconds to whittle away a tougher mob while the CW had the smaller mobs tied up? Laying down Icy Terrain or Steal Time to buy a few precious seconds for the DC to get off his healing or the GF to get into position?
I think the Devs have gone way off the path by making nearly every mob worth mentioning immune or nearly immune to crowd control. I think they have strayed far from the path when every other class except the CW is better at controlling mobs due to nerf after nerf after nerf to the CW. I don't care if I'm top DPS - never did. What I care about is that the classes I play actually feel like the class they are supposed to represent and act like their class implies. A Control Wizard who can't control anything is NOT a Control Wizard - at best they are just "Wizards" and not even very good at that. Being able to Steal Time a group of lesser trash mobs is a waste of this classes role - it needs to be able to control the larger enemies - even if only to a reduced extent or what is the point of the class? Bosses can CC level 70 adventures in BiS gear - why the hell can't we do the same back?
Seriously I am fine with the DPS drop for a CW, it's happened time and time and time again. There was a time, briefly, where the CW was the top DPS dealer of all classes, which felt wrong to me at the time and I believe the above memories of better days may be why.
so I did some testings too. Just to clarify what stats I have exactly I´ll also post a picture of my char lol. Mostly I have over 100% crit during fight cause of the 4k crit ring + r12 bondings and 62% base crit + rene feat so I would say if someone profits from the lol set, then I am the one. I am running a SS rene build with a dread enchant.
Firstly I did my testings on the live server.
The lol set did 27% of my damage. SS did 19% so I have to say that the lol set is by far the best "spell / bonus" for damage that I have. Total DPS: 175k
After this I checked the preview.
Total Dps: 133k. Now the lol set did barely 5% of my total damage and SS went up to 21%. I lost 42k dps. If I use the 175k dps as basic we get a 24% damage lost but this will be even higher in dungeons with all the debuffs and buffs.
In conclusion it will be really hard for us CWs to compensate the damage lose but he have to handle this somehow. Either we will respec to a MoF support build or we have to figure out an even better build then the current high crit builds. I still have seen GWFs that did my damage twice on the preview so I really hope we will get a balance too even if the devs havent mentioned to overwork us. I also did some shorter testings with other damage classes and I have to say that our current stat is really bad
Seriously I am fine with the DPS drop for a CW, it's happened time and time and time again. There was a time, briefly, where the CW was the top DPS dealer of all classes, which felt wrong to me at the time and I believe the above memories of better days may be why.
Seriously I am fine with the DPS drop for a CW, it's happened time and time and time again. There was a time, briefly, where the CW was the top DPS dealer of all classes, which felt wrong to me at the time and I believe the above memories of better days may be why.
DEVS? Are you listening?
They do! Hopefully they will buff CWs...
At this point, I'm not sure buffs would do anything. We need a rework. It's so depressing that no matter what CWs have had that make them stand out, the whiners bitched and moaned so much that the class we have now is a result. PVPers complained about our CC in PVP, the devs response? They destroyed our CC by making Arcane Singularity go from no cap to just 8 and be reducing Shard of the Endless Avalanche from 15 mobs to 8. And since then, HRs and TRs have MUCH more annoying CC than CWs ever had in PVP. We finally had some love in Mods 4 and 5 with DPS (ONLY in add-heavy dungeons), and they took that away because PVPers and other (often lazier...lol) DPS classes complained, even though the only dungeons CWs took Paingiver in were CN, Spiders, Karrundax and other add-heavy dungeons, as I said. No one made their CW before Mod 6 with the intention of being a buff class.
We have 3 specific paths. Oppressor should be our flagship Paragon path. We have control in our names and I literally haven't had more fun on my CW since vanilla-Mod 2 CC. Thaumaturge is a complete DPS path. It offers nothing more than DPS to the table, so why shouldn't a CW that chooses this path have an equal chance at Paingiver? Renegade possibly took the biggest DPS hit with the eLoL nerf, and yet if someone chooses to go this path, their damage is dookie now. This was probably the most balanced path for CWs before the eLoL nerf. And yet what a lot of people don't realize is that the Armor Penetration boost from Chaos Magic hasn't worked since they "buffed" the Paragon feat over a year ago.
No matter what the devs do with CWs, there won't be any satisfying outcome for the rest of the community. If they restore our CC, everyone will complain, even though HRs have had far superior CC for over 7 mods. They have paths very similar to CWs. The only difference is, their CC isn't sacrificed and with the eLoL nerf, they've crept their way up to being one of the top DPS classes, as well.
I will never understand why people complain about one class excelling at something. GWFs and SWs have unrivaled DPS. HR has high DPS and the best CC. TR has high DPS and good CC, as well as SoD, which is still very powerful. CW has moderate DPS, moderate CC and 3rd best buffs.
People say the SW class is the most broken, but I could make a case that CWs are right there with them. The only difference is, SWs were broken when they were introduced, while CWs were broken as a result of endless nerfs with nothing to replace what they took away, to add to balance.
We just want to feel viable again, not just a filler slot who underperforms in every dungeon or as glorified buffers.
I would like to mention that a lot of what is said about the impact of the Lostmauth set change, class DPS predominance and such is viewed from the point of view of good geared characters and players. (over 3k IL)
Under this limit (well under 2.5k IL to be more precise) things are vastly different. For example my now barely 2.3k CW breezed through the normal content and campaign zones, dying only when I played totally recklessly. My SW is a pain in the posterior since the lvl 60 range and though I don't invest play time on it, this lvl 70 toon with of the rack gear form the AH was just dying through the first chapter of the maze engine where my other toons ( lvl 60ish give ore take 1 lvl) in other classes breezed through.
So maybe the real problem isn't really the situation seen from the top, but more in the gap between class efficiency at a particular stage (Lvl and/or IL) and the content. It's more a question of scalability.
For what I experienced, CW before parangon is a little hobled for lack of cc and DPS then fares really well until it plateaues at some point as the IL increases after lvl 70.
In comparison, SW starts well, doesn't sweat much until the lvl 60 range and then it's a hassle until some magical IL where it pulls ahead with ease. There is a true scalability issue here since a SW is far more enchanced with party buff than other classes.
So I think that it's more a question of looking more precisely at the inner workings of each specific class for each phase of its "life" (beginner - heroic - parangon - 60 to 70 - untill 2.5k IL - after 2.5k IL ....) and decide if an adjustment or a rework is necessary rather than autocraticly deceeing that such and such is so and so therefore a change is needed.
GWF has alot of CC AND tanky? That is news to me. That sounds like GF.
lol i think he is playing a different game , btw if most player who realise the main gwf build well put together all stated in their these test are done prior to lostmauth set in the event of a nerf , i am happy lazalia mentioned for we happy where we are
Comments
I've played a CW since the first couple weeks out of Beta for Neverwinter. I have run the original CN and Spellplague and all the other dungeons.
Am I the only one who remembers what the "Control" part of Control Wizard is all about? Does anyone actually recall a time, when running CN for example, if you didn't have a CW you didn't make it? Does anyone recall a time in those cramped halls of Castle Never if a Control Wizard wasn't there to Singularity a horde of mobs the run ended in defeat? Having those few extra seconds to whittle away a tougher mob while the CW had the smaller mobs tied up? Laying down Icy Terrain or Steal Time to buy a few precious seconds for the DC to get off his healing or the GF to get into position?
I think the Devs have gone way off the path by making nearly every mob worth mentioning immune or nearly immune to crowd control. I think they have strayed far from the path when every other class except the CW is better at controlling mobs due to nerf after nerf after nerf to the CW. I don't care if I'm top DPS - never did. What I care about is that the classes I play actually feel like the class they are supposed to represent and act like their class implies. A Control Wizard who can't control anything is NOT a Control Wizard - at best they are just "Wizards" and not even very good at that. Being able to Steal Time a group of lesser trash mobs is a waste of this classes role - it needs to be able to control the larger enemies - even if only to a reduced extent or what is the point of the class? Bosses can CC level 70 adventures in BiS gear - why the hell can't we do the same back?
Seriously I am fine with the DPS drop for a CW, it's happened time and time and time again. There was a time, briefly, where the CW was the top DPS dealer of all classes, which felt wrong to me at the time and I believe the above memories of better days may be why.
DEVS? Are you listening?
Just to clarify what stats I have exactly I´ll also post a picture of my char lol. Mostly I have over 100% crit during fight cause of the 4k crit ring + r12 bondings and 62% base crit + rene feat so I would say if someone profits from the lol set, then I am the one. I am running a SS rene build with a dread enchant.
Firstly I did my testings on the live server.
The lol set did 27% of my damage. SS did 19% so I have to say that the lol set is by far the best "spell / bonus" for damage that I have. Total DPS: 175k
After this I checked the preview.
Total Dps: 133k. Now the lol set did barely 5% of my total damage and SS went up to 21%. I lost 42k dps. If I use the 175k dps as basic we get a 24% damage lost but this will be even higher in dungeons with all the debuffs and buffs.
In conclusion it will be really hard for us CWs to compensate the damage lose but he have to handle this somehow. Either we will respec to a MoF support build or we have to figure out an even better build then the current high crit builds.
I still have seen GWFs that did my damage twice on the preview so I really hope we will get a balance too even if the devs havent mentioned to overwork us. I also did some shorter testings with other damage classes and I have to say that our current stat is really bad
GWF was top dmg in mod2,mod6-9. Oh wow. They skipped a mod or two...
We have 3 specific paths. Oppressor should be our flagship Paragon path. We have control in our names and I literally haven't had more fun on my CW since vanilla-Mod 2 CC. Thaumaturge is a complete DPS path. It offers nothing more than DPS to the table, so why shouldn't a CW that chooses this path have an equal chance at Paingiver? Renegade possibly took the biggest DPS hit with the eLoL nerf, and yet if someone chooses to go this path, their damage is dookie now. This was probably the most balanced path for CWs before the eLoL nerf. And yet what a lot of people don't realize is that the Armor Penetration boost from Chaos Magic hasn't worked since they "buffed" the Paragon feat over a year ago.
No matter what the devs do with CWs, there won't be any satisfying outcome for the rest of the community. If they restore our CC, everyone will complain, even though HRs have had far superior CC for over 7 mods. They have paths very similar to CWs. The only difference is, their CC isn't sacrificed and with the eLoL nerf, they've crept their way up to being one of the top DPS classes, as well.
I will never understand why people complain about one class excelling at something. GWFs and SWs have unrivaled DPS. HR has high DPS and the best CC. TR has high DPS and good CC, as well as SoD, which is still very powerful. CW has moderate DPS, moderate CC and 3rd best buffs.
People say the SW class is the most broken, but I could make a case that CWs are right there with them. The only difference is, SWs were broken when they were introduced, while CWs were broken as a result of endless nerfs with nothing to replace what they took away, to add to balance.
We just want to feel viable again, not just a filler slot who underperforms in every dungeon or as glorified buffers.
Under this limit (well under 2.5k IL to be more precise) things are vastly different. For example my now barely 2.3k CW breezed through the normal content and campaign zones, dying only when I played totally recklessly. My SW is a pain in the posterior since the lvl 60 range and though I don't invest play time on it, this lvl 70 toon with of the rack gear form the AH was just dying through the first chapter of the maze engine where my other toons ( lvl 60ish give ore take 1 lvl) in other classes breezed through.
So maybe the real problem isn't really the situation seen from the top, but more in the gap between class efficiency at a particular stage (Lvl and/or IL) and the content. It's more a question of scalability.
For what I experienced, CW before parangon is a little hobled for lack of cc and DPS then fares really well until it plateaues at some point as the IL increases after lvl 70.
In comparison, SW starts well, doesn't sweat much until the lvl 60 range and then it's a hassle until some magical IL where it pulls ahead with ease. There is a true scalability issue here since a SW is far more enchanced with party buff than other classes.
So I think that it's more a question of looking more precisely at the inner workings of each specific class for each phase of its "life" (beginner - heroic - parangon - 60 to 70 - untill 2.5k IL - after 2.5k IL ....) and decide if an adjustment or a rework is necessary rather than autocraticly deceeing that such and such is so and so therefore a change is needed.
I noticed that stormspell doesn't proc from lostmauth.
I was told/read that someone said the non-crits will effect CW really hard, and break their build. Can someone explain?
I know it indirectly effects SW, but that hinderings is much less than the 25% CWs will face, or 30% GWFs do.
from what i gathered (probably wrong since it scales differently depending on gear and what skills you use.
GWF:30%
CW: 25%
TR: 20%
GF: 10-15%
HR: 10%
SW: 5%
GWFs just need to be toned down (by about 20% atleast), SW need their rework and things should be fine n dandy. (more or less)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Balance is not "Nerf this...tone this down"!