I was basing my price on making all enchantments from scratch using shards. Every time you upgrade an enchantment, you have to make an enchantment of the same rank before you can upgrade it. How many people can afford to buy an enchantment off the Auction House every time they want to upgrade their enchantment?
Why would you upgrade from scratch and shards if it's more expensive than buying from AH?
Lesser enchantment: 4x shard (let's say, free) + coal ward (300k) = 300k. - You can buy some lesser enchantment cheaper.
For example: Making a Normal terror: 8X shards, upgrade to normal costs 3 wards, (+rp) = 900k+ AD You can buy a Normal Terror for 100K AD on AH now, because of the lockbox drops.
So basically, how many people can afford to upgrade a new enchantment every time they want to upgrade their own, instead of buying the same already upgreaded lesser or normal enchantment cheaper from AH?
Yes, Vorpal is more expensive, you may be better off with upgrading your own lessers, normals, but you have to see the AH prices first, and calculate which one is the cheaper for you.
Anyway, after perfect, youn don't need another perfect to upgrade to pure.
So It's 17 wards at maximum for a transcendent enchantment, (less and cheaper, if you can buy normal enchantments cheaper.) Not 63 wards. There's a big difference.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited March 2016
I understand, but you still need only 17 coal wards for a transcendent enchantment, not 63. So 170$ not 630$
However, you can add the rp value, if you only use blood rubies from Zen store + Greater, superior marks value (you need 5 superior mark of potency for pure and 5 for trans, if I remember correctly, so that's circa another coalescent ward in value.)
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
I understand, but you still need only 17 coal wards for a transcendent enchantment, not 63. So 170$ not 630$
However, you can add the rp value, if you only use blood rubies from Zen store + Greater, superior marks value (you need 5 superior mark of potency for pure and 5 for trans, if I remember correctly, so that's circa another coalescent ward in value.)
Well, I'm glad you corrected my math, and that it wouldn't be as expensive as I thought it would be at first. So, most of the money would be spent making a perfect enchantment. After that, you don't need so many coal wards, is that right?
Yep, that's correct. It's more expensive and more time to make a perfect. After that you need only 1 coal ward and 5 superior mark of potencies to make a pure, you don't need another perfect. It's a simple upgrade. You need 1 coal and 5 superior for a transcendent (maybe 1 greater mark of union, stability, power too, I dont remember). However, you need much more rp, but you can cover that with lesser thaumaturgic stones cheaply. Same with enchantments (radiant, azure etc.), you need another one of the same level until you reach lv 10, after that lv 11 and 12 does not sonsume another enchantment.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
I think we are getting off track here. Regardless of the total cost everyone can agree in a game that requires the amount of upgrading this game takes, the path they are leading us will absolutely not work with the player base. I hope the severity of said changes is understood. There are several paths that will yield and increase revenues without punishing your customers.
Add Level 10 enchantments (level 7 & 8 are too low in today's game) and a higher percentage of Epic/Legendary mounts rewarded from boxes. When I fist started playing it wasn't long after several purchases of 30+ keys that I figured the rewards were so rare that is was hopeless to consider purchasing more keys. After 6 months of playing and using the free daily key in the VIP rewards it is abundantly clear the rewards are set so low it would be considered a crime in Vegas. Stop that, no one is fooled and it is costing you a lot of potential revenue.
You can have people trade virtual currency for virtual currency but keep in mind you are in competition with "gold farmers" and they are undercutting your prices by two thirds and more. Due to rarity of many items in the game the costs of said items are severely inflated. Understand if you are going to have purchased virtual currency people will gravitate to the best deal especially when the gap between markets is so substantial.
Use the VIP system as your main stream of revenue. The benefits of 12 levels of VIP is a very good idea, the traveling post is a must have. The key and trade bar rewards is another one. Taking C & P wards out of the Bar vendor was a poor decision and you took the other "must have" out of the reward system. Trading AD for Zen to purchase VIP is another bad idea. It is costing you money needed to ensure the survival and growth of this game . The player base will pay if they feel their dollars are rewarding the gaming experience. VIP can fill that role far better than the promise of a grand prize that never materializes.
Get an end game quick! Your most loyal gamers need goals and feel that they are progressing too. There is only so much accumulating items you don't need and one shooting mobs and chasing the same dragons over and over again before one grows tired and moves on.
I have played many MMOs over a 20 year period and I can honestly say there are a lot of good attributes in this game. It has enough unique features that should allow this game to grow and be very successful in a very competitive field.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
People look at it and see a $10 price tag. But that's not the way Cryptic looks at it. Because of the Astral Diamond Exchange - everything in the game is basically free. If they were to remove the exchange, I'm 100% sure that they would lower the prices on most (if not all) of the items in the Zen Store. However, it is the exchange itself that keeps the prices high. Because it does not have to be a $10 coal ward.
Au contraire. The exchange does not make things free. Someone paid $10 or more directly for astral diamonds. Someone else used that $10 worth of diamonds to make Zen. Nobody bought Zen to exchange AND got Zen store items as well. Those AD were purchased directly = profit.
People look at it and see a $10 price tag. But that's not the way Cryptic looks at it. Because of the Astral Diamond Exchange - everything in the game is basically free. If they were to remove the exchange, I'm 100% sure that they would lower the prices on most (if not all) of the items in the Zen Store. However, it is the exchange itself that keeps the prices high. Because it does not have to be a $10 coal ward.
Au contraire. The exchange does not make things free. Someone paid $10 or more directly for astral diamonds. Someone else used that $10 worth of diamonds to make Zen. Nobody bought Zen to exchange AND got Zen store items as well. Those AD were purchased directly = profit.
Right. What you're saying is that someone else bought that Zen with real money and sold it to the person for astral diamonds. A trade occurred between players/customers, but the Zen was not created out of nothing. Or was it? Do they create Zen out of nothing for players to buy with AD? I don't think that's how it works. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes the zen is a virtual currency but back by real dollars and at that point is a fixed currency. But in the exchange market it becomes a floating currency based on supply and demand. If the supply of Zen drops more AD is chasing fewer Zen and the price to buy Zen on the exchange increases. And possibly NWO felt that the supply of Zen was too much due the most common purchased item was the C-ward and the most common way to purchase this item was with the trade bars (not backed by dollars) or the the AH market using AD (virtual currency). With little interest other than VIP in the zen market the supply of Zen simply was accumulating faster than being used. Much on the zen market is of little use to most players or way too expensive to purchase until the December 1/2 off sale.
The fly in the ointment is with the bots and farmers creating AD 24/7 which substantially inflates all in game prices, more AD chasing fewer items, while increasing the cost to purchase Zen on the exchange. So if the intent by NWO is to reduce supply of Zen, prices will only keep increasing. No matter how much altering of the markets attempted the fact that 10.00 per C-ward will never be accepted by the player base considering how many we need for one of our characters and forget about leveling up multiple alts.
My main contention is why get so caught up in the volatility of floating currencies and the creation of economic conundrums when all the player base really wants and willing to pay for is a game that runs smoothly "with in reason", another topic for another day:), and a game that allows some sort of system of progression for both young and old players. A game where a player doesn't feel they are getting fleeced at every turn and some fresh content from time to time again most would be willing to purchase. Use the VIP system in place as a source of revenue. The player base can budget that entertainment cost along the way and add a few incentives of value in the Zen market to further increase revenues for NWO. Maybe I am not seeing the big picture here but it seems so very simple.
hmm, pvp server was "Nagafen"? it been awhile. there isnt that many on pvp server, it is dying out, already merged.
i remember classic Neverwinter Nights and NW2 both had alignment choices. there was one of player-made adventure module as "Becoming as Blackguard" if i recalled. i love that game and it is loaded with modified textures and new creatures made by players.
my apologies for having off-topic.
i am still waiting for devs plans for c-wards in any new projects or market updates, i am not happy with invokings, it been so long time, for months.
Why would you upgrade from scratch and shards if it's more expensive than buying from AH?
Lesser enchantment: 4x shard (let's say, free) + coal ward (300k) = 300k. - You can buy some lesser enchantment cheaper.
For example: Making a Normal terror: 8X shards, upgrade to normal costs 3 wards, (+rp) = 900k+ AD You can buy a Normal Terror for 100K AD on AH now, because of the lockbox drops.
So basically, how many people can afford to upgrade a new enchantment every time they want to upgrade their own, instead of buying the same already upgreaded lesser or normal enchantment cheaper from AH?
Yes, Vorpal is more expensive, you may be better off with upgrading your own lessers, normals, but you have to see the AH prices first, and calculate which one is the cheaper for you.
Anyway, after perfect, youn don't need another perfect to upgrade to pure.
So It's 17 wards at maximum for a transcendent enchantment, (less and cheaper, if you can buy normal enchantments cheaper.) Not 63 wards. There's a big difference.
You think all those enhancements come ready made that pop up in the AH? Someone has to take the time and effort to produce them.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I agree put the C & P Wards back on the Bar the price inflation is ridiculous. Not to mention one of their hot issues was the economy to make game play more enjoyable so active and casual players could develop their characters. They just took a step backwards IMO. I bought some zen and keys then a couple wards at the bar after nothing special from the lock boxes. The wards is what enticed me to buy the keys. Now I wouldn't buy jack its not worth it. I can afford to buy it but I won't its a waste.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If coalescent wards were only 5 bucks each, people would grouse considerably less about the cost of armor and weapon enchants.
But!
If they were only $1-2 each, people would probably just use them on all their low-chance upgrades (5% or less) instead of futzing around with preservation wards and hoping RNGesus is in a good mood. That's convenience people would pay for, I think. Micro-transaction. Nobody with disposable income thinks all that much about spending a dollar because it's basically pocket change (and less with a coupon). Even people with the cash at hand are deeply averse to shelling out ten bucks a pop for what is effectively a single-use consumable, powerful as it is. It's galling.
Ten of them for ten bucks? I'd have all rank 11s in no time flat.
pmswithagunMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 16Arc User
I totally agree about the price of wards being way overpriced. I actually quit the game for a year over the price when they were at 500-600 ad's in Ah the first time only returning when I found out the price had been dropped. Now they priced them back up again. I managed to buy as many as I could beforehand but I only have 2 left. I am not even going to consider that price especially since I have 11 chars, that for me just isn't a reality until I start printing money in my basement. And I spend a great deal of money in this game already and don't mind to a degree because I believe the players that do, are supporting the game and keeping it rolling.
But now even though they are making leveling in the 60's easier, the prices of wards has made me not even consider leveling the final eight that are presently in the 60's. It's a shame because I would have liked playing at least a few of them. So because of this latest hike, they will be used as nothing but storage units.
Coalescent wards should be about 150-200 Zen each. Preservation wards should be removed from the Zen store and put back into the bar store.
Given the near endless amount of refining needed, plus the huge amount of RNG involved, it's no fun for anybody the way things are. People don't enjoy grinding to do something so basic, and then losing hours of time because RNG went the wrong way 30 times.
10 pres wards for 100 zen/85zen with coupon is very cheap compaired to 5 p-wards on t-bar that cost 50 Ts if i remembered. it would take 5-8 keys if getting lower amounts of Ts from the boxes.
it made zen look cheaper than T-bar market, you get coupons that is random from invokings.
those p-wards from t-bar doesnt stack, but well, we dont worry about it now since they were pulled out.
some folks get lucky with stacks of P-wards from zens when they hit 10% chances, others lost full stack and all failed, and few got lucky with 7 p-wards on 3% chances, RNG is unpredictable.
10 pres wards for 100 zen/85zen with coupon is very cheap compaired to 5 p-wards on t-bar that cost 50 Ts if i remembered.
5 p-wards were 5 T-Bars before they pulled the wards with a c-ward only needing 75. Of course, if you go back to before the first big change to the Trade Bar Store, then you would be correct...actually, it was even worse than you remember. A c-ward was 200 T-Bars while a 5 pack of p-wards was also 200. Now that was extortionate. Here's a link to the full list of original changes just to remind everyone about the really Bad Old Days :
it was 65 Ts for rubies and c-ward for 70 Ts. man, i missed those rubies so much.
i do remembered they cost 200 little over year ago, it wasnt that bad deal, it only when needed, they they reduce to 70 which is thier biggest mistake ever.
i wouldnt mind paying 250 zens for a c-ward, but i will still refuse paying 500 zens if they reduce from 1k zens. if they dont want get any cheaper, then 300 zens would be a baseline price but that means i buy less.
all i can say is... LOL at the fact they removed them from the Talarmune bar store...
then this post would have never touched base .. case closed...
Fact is ... Coalescent wards sold for £7.99 per is prett bad even if u have an exchange market.. i have over 25+ real life mates that play this game and 60+ in game mates that also play alot of this game.
ive asked them all have they EVER bought a Coalescent ward from Zen market.. and surprise surprise ... not one person had bought this item.
It seems to me.. either they drop the price by half. or just remove it and stop wasting our time..
i never spent on anything any other than the Zen market.. but i feel basically robbed everytime spending there unless its a 50% coupon as sad as it sounds.
i just see it like this.. if there is a million users + spending 1£ a day thats £1million every day earned... but thats just my logic i guess
something we just have to deal with if we love to play this game just pray things change market wise in the future ..
Comments
Lesser enchantment: 4x shard (let's say, free) + coal ward (300k) = 300k. - You can buy some lesser enchantment cheaper.
For example: Making a Normal terror: 8X shards, upgrade to normal costs 3 wards, (+rp) = 900k+ AD
You can buy a Normal Terror for 100K AD on AH now, because of the lockbox drops.
So basically, how many people can afford to upgrade a new enchantment every time they want to upgrade their own, instead of buying the same already upgreaded lesser or normal enchantment cheaper from AH?
Yes, Vorpal is more expensive, you may be better off with upgrading your own lessers, normals, but you have to see the AH prices first, and calculate which one is the cheaper for you.
Anyway, after perfect, youn don't need another perfect to upgrade to pure.
So It's 17 wards at maximum for a transcendent enchantment, (less and cheaper, if you can buy normal enchantments cheaper.)
Not 63 wards. There's a big difference.
However, you can add the rp value, if you only use blood rubies from Zen store + Greater, superior marks value (you need 5 superior mark of potency for pure and 5 for trans, if I remember correctly, so that's circa another coalescent ward in value.)
After that you need only 1 coal ward and 5 superior mark of potencies to make a pure, you don't need another perfect. It's a simple upgrade. You need 1 coal and 5 superior for a transcendent (maybe 1 greater mark of union, stability, power too, I dont remember). However, you need much more rp, but you can cover that with lesser thaumaturgic stones cheaply. Same with enchantments (radiant, azure etc.), you need another one of the same level until you reach lv 10, after that lv 11 and 12 does not sonsume another enchantment.
Add Level 10 enchantments (level 7 & 8 are too low in today's game) and a higher percentage of Epic/Legendary mounts rewarded from boxes. When I fist started playing it wasn't long after several purchases of 30+ keys that I figured the rewards were so rare that is was hopeless to consider purchasing more keys. After 6 months of playing and using the free daily key in the VIP rewards it is abundantly clear the rewards are set so low it would be considered a crime in Vegas. Stop that, no one is fooled and it is costing you a lot of potential revenue.
You can have people trade virtual currency for virtual currency but keep in mind you are in competition with "gold farmers" and they are undercutting your prices by two thirds and more. Due to rarity of many items in the game the costs of said items are severely inflated. Understand if you are going to have purchased virtual currency people will gravitate to the best deal especially when the gap between markets is so substantial.
Use the VIP system as your main stream of revenue. The benefits of 12 levels of VIP is a very good idea, the traveling post is a must have. The key and trade bar rewards is another one. Taking C & P wards out of the Bar vendor was a poor decision and you took the other "must have" out of the reward system. Trading AD for Zen to purchase VIP is another bad idea. It is costing you money needed to ensure the survival and growth of this game . The player base will pay if they feel their dollars are rewarding the gaming experience. VIP can fill that role far better than the promise of a grand prize that never materializes.
Get an end game quick! Your most loyal gamers need goals and feel that they are progressing too. There is only so much accumulating items you don't need and one shooting mobs and chasing the same dragons over and over again before one grows tired and moves on.
I have played many MMOs over a 20 year period and I can honestly say there are a lot of good attributes in this game. It has enough unique features that should allow this game to grow and be very successful in a very competitive field.
The fly in the ointment is with the bots and farmers creating AD 24/7 which substantially inflates all in game prices, more AD chasing fewer items, while increasing the cost to purchase Zen on the exchange. So if the intent by NWO is to reduce supply of Zen, prices will only keep increasing. No matter how much altering of the markets attempted the fact that 10.00 per C-ward will never be accepted by the player base considering how many we need for one of our characters and forget about leveling up multiple alts.
My main contention is why get so caught up in the volatility of floating currencies and the creation of economic conundrums when all the player base really wants and willing to pay for is a game that runs smoothly "with in reason", another topic for another day:), and a game that allows some sort of system of progression for both young and old players. A game where a player doesn't feel they are getting fleeced at every turn and some fresh content from time to time again most would be willing to purchase. Use the VIP system in place as a source of revenue. The player base can budget that entertainment cost along the way and add a few incentives of value in the Zen market to further increase revenues for NWO. Maybe I am not seeing the big picture here but it seems so very simple.
i remember classic Neverwinter Nights and NW2 both had alignment choices. there was one of player-made adventure module as "Becoming as Blackguard" if i recalled.
i love that game and it is loaded with modified textures and new creatures made by players.
my apologies for having off-topic.
i am still waiting for devs plans for c-wards in any new projects or market updates, i am not happy with invokings, it been so long time, for months.
But!
If they were only $1-2 each, people would probably just use them on all their low-chance upgrades (5% or less) instead of futzing around with preservation wards and hoping RNGesus is in a good mood. That's convenience people would pay for, I think. Micro-transaction. Nobody with disposable income thinks all that much about spending a dollar because it's basically pocket change (and less with a coupon). Even people with the cash at hand are deeply averse to shelling out ten bucks a pop for what is effectively a single-use consumable, powerful as it is. It's galling.
Ten of them for ten bucks? I'd have all rank 11s in no time flat.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
But now even though they are making leveling in the 60's easier, the prices of wards has made me not even consider leveling the final eight that are presently in the 60's. It's a shame because I would have liked playing at least a few of them. So because of this latest hike, they will be used as nothing but storage units.
Given the near endless amount of refining needed, plus the huge amount of RNG involved, it's no fun for anybody the way things are. People don't enjoy grinding to do something so basic, and then losing hours of time because RNG went the wrong way 30 times.
it would take 5-8 keys if getting lower amounts of Ts from the boxes.
it made zen look cheaper than T-bar market, you get coupons that is random from invokings.
those p-wards from t-bar doesnt stack, but well, we dont worry about it now since they were pulled out.
some folks get lucky with stacks of P-wards from zens when they hit 10% chances, others lost full stack and all failed, and few got lucky with 7 p-wards on 3% chances, RNG is unpredictable.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9624953-developer-blog:-improved-trade-bar-store
man, i missed those rubies so much.
i do remembered they cost 200 little over year ago, it wasnt that bad deal, it only when needed, they they reduce to 70 which is thier biggest mistake ever.
i wouldnt mind paying 250 zens for a c-ward, but i will still refuse paying 500 zens if they reduce from 1k zens. if they dont want get any cheaper, then 300 zens would be a baseline price but that means i buy less.
then this post would have never touched base .. case closed...
Fact is ... Coalescent wards sold for £7.99 per is prett bad even if u have an exchange market..
i have over 25+ real life mates that play this game and 60+ in game mates that also play alot of this game.
ive asked them all have they EVER bought a Coalescent ward from Zen market..
and surprise surprise ... not one person had bought this item.
It seems to me.. either they drop the price by half. or just remove it and stop wasting our time..
i never spent on anything any other than the Zen market.. but i feel basically robbed everytime spending there unless its a 50% coupon
as sad as it sounds.
i just see it like this..
if there is a million users + spending 1£ a day
thats £1million every day earned...
but thats just my logic i guess
something we just have to deal with if we love to play this game
just pray things change market wise in the future ..