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Update on the Trade Bar Store (Xbox One)

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    assassintunkoassassintunko Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2016

    Wow, I've never heard so much whining over a free game. If you're putting that much money into it you're a loser, plain and simple. Thank you Neverwinter for such a HAMSTER game. Thank you for the gift as well. Keep up the good work.

    Its not whining it is called sticking up for ourselves. This game is not "HAMSTER" this game is broken and the company who makes it is greedy. A game such as this which relies widely on micro-transactions already makes a metric ton of money so ask yourself why they want to take advantage of their player base even more.

    Please keep your posts civil. Being upset is understandable but you may not be lewd or insulting to any person or group of people under any circumstances.
    -Ambisinisterr
    Post edited by ambisinisterr on
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    nocturnal#0929 nocturnal Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your issue. The Astral Diamond Exchange in Neverwinter is a player-driven economy. This means that the exchange rate on any given day is the direct result of the supply and demand of Zen/Astral Diamonds as determined by players who are using the system. Perfect World and Cryptic Studios does not control (i.e., inflate, deflate) the exchange rate in this system, we leave it in the hands of players to determine. Whenever a payment reversal or chargeback is initiated by a consumer through their bank it is our standard practice to suspend the account pending resolution of the dispute. If the funds in the dispute are not repaid to us, or the dispute dropped, the account will remain permanently suspended. Additionally, even though the dispute was for payments made to Neverwinter, the same game account was used to play Star Trek Online and Champions Online. Suspensions apply to the account as a whole, not to a specific game the account is used to play on. Please feel free to contact out support team if you have any further questions. Thanks. Regards, Perfect World Entertainment Customer Service
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    awrex1977awrex1977 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    Neverwinter "Underdark" was announced for PC on May 5th, 2015. (note caveat "with XBox One to follow")

    arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9226073-neverwinter:-underdark-coming-in-2015

    VIP for XBox was introduced as (IMO) a subscription to this game. 1000 zen/month - roughly a $10.00/month subscription - it was announced on 9/4/15, it went live 9/8/15 (w/ Elemental Evil)

    https://arcgames.com/en/games/xbox/neverwinter/news/detail/9535503-introducing-the-vip-program-for-xbox-one!

    For that $10 a month, which I gladly paid for the benefits - the most appealing of which were keys - at a substantial value, 30 keys for 1K zen per VIP bundle purchased & various QoL "upgrades".

    Tradebar rework was announced for PC on 10/30/15.

    https://arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9624953-developer-blog%3A-improved-trade-bar-store

    I bought more VIP (full 12 months worth) in anticipation of the eventual Underdark and in turn, Tradebar rework release on the XBox One.

    It (Tradebar) went live with the release of Underdark on 11/17/15. (note caveat "In terms of systems, the Tarmalune Trade Bar Store has also undergone a massive – and very popular – rework.")

    arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9656743-neverwinter%3A-underdark-is-live%21

    At no point, up until a ninja edit, at some point after 2/4/16, had there been any indication the trade bar store would be any different with the Xbox One release vs the in place PC rework. Even with the stealth disclaimer, Rubies & Wards are listed with new pricing...

    I'm curious, and I'm sure we will never know.... following the release of VIP on XBox - at $10 a month on 9/8/15 & the announcement of the tradebar rework announcement on 10/30, that was tied to the Underdark release which was to "follow" the Nov 17th PC replease date, what kind of spike in VIP XBox subscriptions there were... 4 months of VIP = 120 keys, typically 4 or 5 TB's a box - 480-600 tradebars per subscriber over the course of 11/1/15 - 2/1/16 that were hoarded by who knows how many VIP subscribers who signed up for multiple months of VIP solely because of the excitement and anticipation of the upcoming tradebar rework we would eventually be getting...

    Also curious, how many people out there decided to ride out purchasing a CWard from the old trade bar store for 200 when up until earlier this week we were all lead to believe on 2/9 they would be available for 75?

    Also curious how poorly CWards/Blood Rubies sold on the Zen Market following the 10/30/15 announcement of the Trade Bar rework... if I had to guess, VIP sales spiked (I know I dumped cash into 12 month of it right around then) and Rubies/CWards plummeted.

    So now, in Cryptic/PWE's infinite wisdom.... ahhh, got that VIP dough, now we can cash on some more Zen $$$ when people who have paid for months of VIP start getting frustrated with enchants/gear/artifacts they want to refine because they've hit that paywall & we took away a very legitimate way (CWards/Rubies in the TB update they never got) to advance their characters...

    Parity - my HAMSTER

    XBox/PC being the same - my HAMSTER

    Trying to get the 2 platforms as close as possible - my HAMSTER

    A sincere apology - my HAMSTER

    Ramification on the economy - my HAMSTER

    Buy me off with this sorry excuse at making this right - kiss my HAMSTER

    Not another DIME.

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    nocturnal#0929 nocturnal Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    null
    I found this response made in defense of your company on the BBB. Basically you will lie in the faces of many to attempt to make yourselves look better while you do the opposite.
    http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-francisco/business-reviews/internet-gaming/perfect-world-entertainment-in-redwood-city-ca-375623/customer-reviews?cacheit=y
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    adelelilyadelelily Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    The only way to get them to do what us gamers want is to boycott the game and not spend a dime on Zen if we do this as a community they will start to listen.
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    s4v10rxs4v10rx Member Posts: 389 Arc User

    On Tuesday, February 10, the Coalescent Wards, Preservations Wards and Blood Rubies were removed from the Trade Bar Store in the Xbox One version of Neverwinter. We wanted to go over why the decision was made and the process of communicating this change to the community.

    First off, let’s discuss the communication. We as a company failed to distribute this information before we made the change. For that, we apologize. It has always been our desire to be transparent with the community in an effort to ensure that you have the necessary information for our game. However, this change wasn’t something that was planned and withheld. Both the PC and Xbox version operate in different ways especially in regards to their economies. Similar to real-world economies, there are highs and lows mixed with hundreds of variables. In this particular situation, we made the decision to remove the wards and rubies late in the cycle of our communication and after we already communicated the previous changes that were available in the PC version of Underdark. This last minute change did not give us the opportunity to distribute that message to the players before the launch of our expansion. In the future, we will work towards giving a larger timeframe to properly communicate this message to you.

    Similar to the adjustments that we made with the AD economy, our team is in the process of doing a holistic review of how players are interacting with our economy as a whole. Our investigation is focused on reviewing every variable to look for areas of abuse through either exploitation or fraud, whether through paid currency or achievable in-game currency. The removal of these items was due to a large influx in habits that we have been following from exploiters, who have been obtaining these items and redistributing them as currency for other purposes. To be very clear though, we do not want to discuss our economy in absolutes. There could always be adjustments or exceptions based on how players are interacting with the changes to our in-game systems. This is why Coalescent and Preservation Wards are still available through systems like Invocation.

    To speak to this further, one of our guidelines for putting items into in-game stores is to never allow that exact item to also exist in the Zen Market. Doing so can create confusion, as well as introduce perceived equivalencies that aren’t actually true. We made a mistake when allowing these items to exist in both the Trade Bar store and the Zen Market. Though Coalescent Wards and Preservation Wards did exist (at a higher price) in the Trade Bar store before, our attempt to make them more prominent and significantly cheaper had a large negative impact on the in-game economy. We really thought this would be a positive change, but we were wrong and we apologize for taking them away now.

    Through this process, and since the launch of our game, community feedback has been paramount to how we perceive our game. We understand that several of you were upset with the changes and want to reiterate that we do not intend to hinder your play experience. We’re gamers too and we review our decisions through the lens of our own gaming habits. We will continue to review our system, but in the meantime we would like to make good on communication. Although we cannot return the removed items from our Trade Bar store, we would like to offer each of our players the following:

    • We are going to look into our player data for those who had 200+ Trade Bars total in their account at the time of our Underdark launch. That means if one character had 197 Trade Bars and another had 3, the account would be treated as though it had 200. For those accounts, we will give out one Coalescent Ward for every 200 Trade Bars that you had in your inventory at the time of launch. The reason we need to use the old pricing is that we are still reviewing the in-game economy as a whole. For this reason, we are also going to cap the maximum amount of wards at 10 Coalescent Wards per eligible individual. You will NOT be charged Trade Bars for this transaction. This is a gift.
    • We will also be delivering a free pack to ALL existing accounts that includes: one Coalescent Ward, one Blood Ruby and five Preservation Wards.
    • Finally, we are going to consider our community goals for Neverwinter on Xbox One accomplished.
    In regards to when we will deliver these items, we are in the process of making them available for accounts as described above. Based on our current estimations, we expect to have all of these gifts go out within the next week. We will be updating everyone on the status of the update as we get closer to release.

    We hope you continue to deliver feedback for our team. We are listening to you every time that you post on the forums, Reddit, Twitter and Facebook. You are a critical part of our game and your feedback is important to us.

    Well Good Job and Goodbye but before i leave i will be filing a complaint with xbox for fraud and false advertising this is not a solution its an attempt to bribe your players and anyone who accepts this is a fool i urge you fellow xbox players to follow in my example and file a complaint with xbox support they already have an investigation going and will more then likely force theem to give us what we were promised not some HAMSTER excuse and a handshake what you did is fraud and is punishable by law in many countries have fun with xbox's lawyers
    well mayb u can create a website where you are able to provide direct information to those lawyers and attorney for XB1 so that you can help other individuals in filing complain with microsoft for fraud and false advertising.

    Guild: Asylum
    Character:
    7thS1n---Trickster Rouge LV 70(perma-Stun build)
    7ThH3AL3R-- Devoted Cleric LV 70 (Divine Oracle Haste/DPS build)
    7ThM4G3-- Control Wizard
    7ThW4rL0CK-- Scrooge Warlock
    7THW4R--Great Weapon Fighter
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    thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    on the other hand. supply and demand right, maybe so many people will be gone that there will be a glut of enchantments on the market and prices will drop for those of us who remain. (of course, we won't be able to fill a dungeon or kill tiamat or the demogorgon sowhat's the point.... )
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    funkehmanfunkehman Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    People, complaining about not getting trade-bar wards makes you look bad... The zen can be obtained for free... Something called "Grinding". It is a thing mmos have. If you can't grind, you can't play. Stop whining like children and grind for it. Trade bars aren't the only way. People who cared not for the wards are mad not because of the trade bar changes, but that you whinners are acting like you are in kindergarden. If you really hate this game, leave. There are players who do not want to listen to children crying, especially in Protector's Enclave.
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    legendxkillalegendxkilla Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    The other thing that doesn't sit right with me is the fact that you're banning people for using a cheaper service that's being advertised in your game. You do realise that because of your ridiculous pricing structure of $10 for 125-140k is ridiculous? Then, shock horror, a message pops up from the Chinese 24/7, offering 1 mill for $9. You may actually want to spend more time moderating your chat because all you're doing is destroying your fanbase.

    The reality is that mod 4/5 were your high point for this game. You knew this and since the drop of mod 6, on both the PC and Xbox, your numbers have dwindled.

    The irony is, your game is f*****g awesome when it works. But you keep finding ways to shaft people over and over.
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    brett#9746 brett Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Lol funkehman i bet you already have everything upgraded completely so of course it wouldnt effect you, but to the newer players, they are completely screwed. This game is suppose to be a f2p game, but from the way they are conducting there business now, if you don't pay you lose end of discussion, nice bait and switch tatic though. Haha good job perfect world.
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    dyukillerdyukiller Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    funkehman said:

    People, complaining about not getting trade-bar wards makes you look bad... The zen can be obtained for free... Something called "Grinding". It is a thing mmos have. If you can't grind, you can't play. Stop whining like children and grind for it. Trade bars aren't the only way. People who cared not for the wards are mad not because of the trade bar changes, but that you whinners are acting like you are in kindergarden. If you really hate this game, leave. There are players who do not want to listen to children crying, especially in Protector's Enclave.

    dude, silence pls.
    It's not about gameplay. it's about LIES.
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    awrex1977awrex1977 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    funkehman said:

    People, complaining about not getting trade-bar wards makes you look bad... The zen can be obtained for free... Something called "Grinding". It is a thing mmos have. If you can't grind, you can't play. Stop whining like children and grind for it. Trade bars aren't the only way. People who cared not for the wards are mad not because of the trade bar changes, but that you whinners are acting like you are in kindergarden. If you really hate this game, leave. There are players who do not want to listen to children crying, especially in Protector's Enclave.

    Hypothetically...

    President's Day is coming up, and with in annual President's Day Sales.

    Let's say... Best Buy is advertising high end 70+inch 4K TVs for $1000.00 (they typically run for $5K+). You go pick up one, pay for it, take it home and to your shock and horror... you have a 32 inch old school tube TV instead.

    You take your new TV back to Best Buy, because, obviously, there must have been some mistake.

    Best Buy tells you, "nope, this is what we meant, we understand that maybe we should have been a little clearer or communicated our intentions better, but we didn't"... this makes you angry, so you want 1 of 2 things - a refund of your money or the product you thought you were paying for.

    Best Buy tells you, "not going to happen, but... here's a shiny new VCR player, it's really nice - and it's FREE!"

    Now, me personally, I would be furious. I would NEVER shop at Best Buy again, I would let anybody who would listen to avoid giving Best Buy any business going forward.

    Perhaps you would just take it & grind....

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    boondoc0boondoc0 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    funkehman said:

    Hypothetically...

    President's Day is coming up, and with in annual President's Day Sales.

    Let's say... Best Buy is advertising high end 70+inch 4K TVs for $1000.00 (they typically run for $5K+). You go pick up one, pay for it, take it home and to your shock and horror... you have a 32 inch old school tube TV instead.

    You take your new TV back to Best Buy, because, obviously, there must have been some mistake.

    Best Buy tells you, "nope, this is what we meant, we understand that maybe we should have been a little clearer or communicated our intentions better, but we didn't"... this makes you angry, so you want 1 of 2 things - a refund of your money or the product you thought you were paying for.

    Best Buy tells you, "not going to happen, but... here's a shiny new VCR player, it's really nice - and it's FREE!"

    Now, me personally, I would be furious. I would NEVER shop at Best Buy again, I would let anybody who would listen to avoid giving Best Buy any business going forward.

    Perhaps you would just take it & grind....

    more along the lines of BB telling you "hey buy this stuff and we'll give you coupons that will let you buy this TV on this date. then when that date rolls around they tell you "oh no, not you we were speaking to those people over there. why would you expect us to give YOU people this amazing deal. here, take these dvds and be happy you're getting anything from us. but keep shopping here because you're a valued customer."
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    volournvolourn Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Still haven't received my bribe yet. Countdown begins. :)
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    ancojoancojo Member Posts: 253 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    awrex1977 said:

    funkehman said:

    People, complaining about not getting trade-bar wards makes you look bad... The zen can be obtained for free... Something called "Grinding". It is a thing mmos have. If you can't grind, you can't play. Stop whining like children and grind for it. Trade bars aren't the only way. People who cared not for the wards are mad not because of the trade bar changes, but that you whinners are acting like you are in kindergarden. If you really hate this game, leave. There are players who do not want to listen to children crying, especially in Protector's Enclave.

    Hypothetically...

    President's Day is coming up, and with in annual President's Day Sales.

    Let's say... Best Buy is advertising high end 70+inch 4K TVs for $1000.00 (they typically run for $5K+). You go pick up one, pay for it, take it home and to your shock and horror... you have a 32 inch old school tube TV instead.

    You take your new TV back to Best Buy, because, obviously, there must have been some mistake.

    Best Buy tells you, "nope, this is what we meant, we understand that maybe we should have been a little clearer or communicated our intentions better, but we didn't"... this makes you angry, so you want 1 of 2 things - a refund of your money or the product you thought you were paying for.

    Best Buy tells you, "not going to happen, but... here's a shiny new VCR player, it's really nice - and it's FREE!"

    Now, me personally, I would be furious. I would NEVER shop at Best Buy again, I would let anybody who would listen to avoid giving Best Buy any business going forward.

    Perhaps you would just take it & grind....

    lol this was funny!

    So theres the CoD Bops3 debacle with the Cod points to buy supply drops which now include weapons! Then this happens with NW!

    I just dont get it, COD as a franchise had it all but over the past few years Activision are royally screwdrivering players over and NW as a game mode is one of the best I've played, I love the fight system but they seem to be doing what Activision are doing!

    Its all simply based on one thing, GREED! Its nothing else, none of the changes they implement are more to the benefit of the players its more to the benefit of the share holders/bosses of the companies wanting more and more bonus cash in their paypackets!

    The sad thing is its not just CoD or NW but many other games and not only games but society as a whole, we have a now what seems natural urge for more and more! This is what the likes of game makers now prey on, they know many people want it all and want it now so they use it to their advantage!

    Any wonder why the state of the economy/world is in the mess its in! The sooner it all crashes back down to earth the better but the sad thing is, who will suffer more? The rich or the poor? My analogy went a bit astray but I think you get my point? Greed does no one any good in the long run, its just ruins things for the many and only rewards the few!

    I was in a happy chilled mood!
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    shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    I'm just going to drop this right here. The Extra Credits guys do a decent job of explaining the problem with f2p these days.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
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    There are gamers who can spend a lot of money and dont care about trade bars. Maybe Arc/criptic want to get just this kind of gamer..is the best way to rise incomes, they think.but they dont take in count following consecuence; with that kind of business practices and lies, the gamers ,who spend a lot of money, wont have enough gamers to playing with....all we are leaving...protector will be a desert...and at the end, the game dies.
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    awrex1977awrex1977 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Nothing is free, sure it's a F2P game.

    But nobody at Cryptic/PWE is doing their job pro bono. Revenue has to come in to cover overhead. That's just common sense.

    Microtransaction game models can, have (IMO) will continue to be a viable business model - and that's what NWO is, a F2P game that depends on microtransactions to generate money to keep the game going.

    You can play this game without ever spending a dollar.

    However, if everybody who plays this game never spends a dollar, eventually there will not be a game. IT's plain and simple, when this game stops paying the bills, this game will be no more.

    That's the kicker here... the decision to alter the Trade Bar rework at the 0 hour, with no "heads up" is basically telling anybody who has ever spent money on this game to "bend over & just take it."

    IMO, that is not a particularly effective way to keep people opening up their digital wallets.

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    zixxer636zixxer636 Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    null
    Great video
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    mvigilmvigil Member Posts: 13 Arc User

    Why is everyone so negative? By the way, did you all read the patch notes word for word? Here is something that shows Arc isn't all to blame.



    "Trade Bar Store Update - Dev Blog (As this is a PC blog, things may differ in the actual Trade Bar Store on Xbox)" (Quoted directly from the patch notes post on Feb. 8th)



    Yes, it was posted late, but they told us it could be different. It was a day before the actual update. I feel, as gamers and human beings should understand that Arc is run by humans. And humans make mistakes. Are you human? Are you perfect? "Stone me if you have no sins and yoi are perfect". That's my two cents. I know people aren't going to appreciate this post. I apologize. It's a fact and it is true. Have a great weekend!

    A voice of reason <3
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    ajam691ajam691 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Arc you are ridiculous
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    shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    zixxer636 said:

    null

    Great video

    Thanks! I didn't expect the url to just embed the thing but, here there it went. This one, I think, is also on-point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0
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    lukeabranteslukeabrantes Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Thank you, Neverwinter. I can finally play other games now. You set me free.

    I was more upset about the rubies and the weekend events than the wards. I was getting ready for 2x XP to grind and get 2 more characters to 70.

    But not anymore. Thanks to you, I remembered that I have a huge pile of games I haven't been playing due to all the hours dedicated to Neverwinter.

    I guess your stupid move did something good for me. I'm out.
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    funkehmanfunkehman Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    null
    You obviously don't understand, they made a quick change before the update. If you don't like being "lied" to, leave. Simple answer. Stop complaining about a game and how it's developers use it. It's their game, not yours. If you dislike what they do, go play another game, or even make your own game. Crying and whining takes you no where. AD is not even hard to get, it is Time consuming... You act as if it is impossible and it cannot be gained... If you can't grind, you cannot do mmos, or really every game. Stop sitting and crying, you could have used this time to GET wards with ad. Lmao.
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    davidagaldodavidagaldo Member Posts: 383 Arc User
    awrex1977 said:



    That's the kicker here... the decision to alter the Trade Bar rework at the 0 hour, with no "heads up" is basically telling anybody who has ever spent money on this game to "bend over & just take it."

    IMO, that is not a particularly effective way to keep people opening up their digital wallets.

    That is the point break for me, I had planned to go lock box crazy with dual streams of AD and $$. I will hold onto both now. No mass lock boxes in the near future. After VIP ends I will decrease my time with NW.

    Guild: Spectrum
    .. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
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    nekojo7nekojo7 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    funkehman said:

    null

    You obviously don't understand, they made a quick change before the update. If you don't like being "lied" to, leave. Simple answer. Stop complaining about a game and how it's developers use it. It's their game, not yours. If you dislike what they do, go play another game, or even make your own game. Crying and whining takes you no where. AD is not even hard to get, it is Time consuming... You act as if it is impossible and it cannot be gained... If you can't grind, you cannot do mmos, or really every game. Stop sitting and crying, you could have used this time to GET wards with ad. Lmao.

    Actually the 'Crying and Whining' is what drives change. People are pissed, and it is within our right to be so due to terrible business practice that was just applied in this case. If you can't stand people fighting for what's right then maybe you need to stop bitching and carry on with your grinding...
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    mvigilmvigil Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    I don't get it. Look before you jump down my throat for what I am about to type, keep in mind, I am as affected by this as the next person.. that said:

    * NO ONE told you to sell whatever in anticipation for lower trade bar prices on wards.
    * To say that there is lack of content is ridiculous. The game hasn't even been on xBox for a year and we have had a multitude of expansions. Feel free to tell me which other single game has expanded that often within one year.
    * You don't want to play a free game anymore, don't play it.
    * Don't like the brand or the company? Don't buy their product. It really is that simple.
    * To yell Scam, BBB and whatnot is ridiculous. No one took your money and said "Here is the very specific item your money buys, but oops, now we don't give it to you" - if you spent money on lock boxes, guess what? That's on you. It's like buying Lottery tickets and suing the National Lottery because your scratch off ticket didn't win. It's flat out silly.

This discussion has been closed.