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T2 content (Epic Cragmire, Epic Gray Wolf Den, etc.), too hard? Easy? Fair?
arcofortep12
Member Posts: 2,265 Arc User
Just to show what's the general consensus is. So developers can take this in consideration for balancing things out.
Since there aren't only premades and grinders (perfectly legitimate, no critics intended) but even PUGS and semi-casuals better to show off what's the general consensus is. The poll is anonymous, both to preserve the legitimate expectation for geared toons, or very balanced parties, to run the content the way they want and the low geared ones, or random parties, to run the content the way they want.
I hope to not have been biased and just but it's always hard to please anyone.
Since there aren't only premades and grinders (perfectly legitimate, no critics intended) but even PUGS and semi-casuals better to show off what's the general consensus is. The poll is anonymous, both to preserve the legitimate expectation for geared toons, or very balanced parties, to run the content the way they want and the low geared ones, or random parties, to run the content the way they want.
I hope to not have been biased and just but it's always hard to please anyone.
T2 content (Epic Cragmire, Epic Gray Wolf Den, etc.), too hard? Easy? Fair? 67 votes
For me it's too much Easy.
50%
34 votes
I think it's now Fair with all the boons and new equipment we got from Stronghold and Underdark
26%
18 votes
It's still too hard from my point of view
22%
15 votes
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
And ive been playing mmos for more then some of you have lived now.. let me tell you something, you play with those who you know, you get into global channels, you find guilds and you play with those YOU know , doesnt MEAN you dont meet new people, sure you do! you add them to your list of friends! and then you run with them as well. This concept that you DONT do this is the wrong one.. not the right one. HOW do you get to know people otherwise? This is just so weird to me, saying you should never premake anything.. NO my friend its the opposite, until about 5-6-7 years ago.. YOU NEVER pugged.. there WAS no random queues to enter.. you ONLY made premades IN every mmo until about that time. This "other" random pug thing is the "NEW" thing and ITS not good.. its really bad in fact, IVE never seen it where it ADDED more to the game. No getting groups together and getting to know people is the real part of a mmo.
I would love to have seen some of you do these with arp bug..
I would love to see some of you back in mod 1 when we spend a hour getting through idiris with 6-7k gs players..
I would love to see what you would think of the first time you spilled into SP.. Karrundux and Frozen Heart with 100 mobs around you.. and you freaked out.
There is no real challenge in this game when you base it back into that time frame.
In addition, there is ALREADY enough EASY content into the game.. we need some harder stuff now.
There is plenty of people around 2k i level to do.. more then enough to last a year in fact for a new player. By that time they will be ready for more challenge.
For my characters current skirmish content is not doable nor fun.
Before mod 6 we had a lot of dungeons, with different difficulty: (with properly geared for dungeon, not bis party)
Cloak Tower, ECC - very beginner, you could defeat it with any party composition. (Even then you could see people fail)
Other T1: GWD, Trone of Idris (personal favourite) - a little harder, there could be some deaths and failures.
Lair of Mad Dragon: A lot harder, than other T1-s. Party composition matters, hard time, if you don't kill erinyes first (which was a pain with unexperienced pugs. - A lot of failures, escpesially with first boss.
PK: Easiest T2 with the worst (offhand) reward. Easy, speedruns, beginner level. (Easier than LoMD)
Other T2: Karrundax, Etos, Frozen Heart, (where you needed a good Tank) spellplague - A medium level, where you needed good builds and actual teamwork. From easy to difficult. A good learning exprience. (Or even better: before mod 2, a real pain, but worthwile experience!)
Malabog, Valindra: New mod dungeons, increased difficulty with new boss mechanicks, new and better reward, you needed to grind a bit for it, but nothing too serious - the reward (BIS weapon set, but NOT 2x better than previous, so they did not became obsolete) worth the runs. The lack of DPS could be overcame with teamwork.
CN: expert level, you needed to build a good charackter, a good party, upgrade your char, get good equipment etc to be able to beat it. THE dungeon, where the loot worth the runs. (After mod 2 for a lot time a CW-fest though. But insane difficulty at first - And people learnt to beat it!)
Dread Vault: More difficult than CN (after mod 2-3?), you needed good party, not just CW-s and teamwork to beat the boss, skill was more important than dps. A very nice dungeon, with not the best rewards, but real fun.
You couldn't be carried through the hardest dungeon by a GF/OP+ 1 Dps if you were a total idiot. You needed to contribute.
Also, a very important thing: different rewards in every dungeon! So if you went to a more difficult dungeon, your time was paid, because the loot was more expensive.
Now, with 6 dungeons, ther is no learning curve for beginners. You can't know charakter by running kessel.
You only need go to Elol, which is the easiest, and fastest (or VT). No need for MC, 2 times longer.
You only need to go to Etos, which is the easiest and fastest. No need for GWD or ECC, 2 times longer. (ohh, wait! even better, you dont really need to go to T2 anymore, the rewards are horrible and obsolete.)
There is no endgame dungeon now, no need to learn to play your charakter, (not even need to build a good charackter) you can be carried in even the hardest dungeons or Edemo.
So we need new, challengive dungeons, or epic version of the dungeons for endgame, with different and exclusive rewards in every dungeon!
Those speak for my opinion.
Hardest dungeons are just challenge but even challenge must be interesting and current skirmish dungeons are not interesting or there is no point to do them because you have stuff from them.
Old dungeons was also interesting because there was allways bossibility to run them in random party... just if party listening advice (OFC, TOS/Dread Vault was harder complete if no premade)
In mod 2 even the easiest dungeon, Cloak Tower and ECC could be a failure with stupid players. CT was around a Celadine tower difficulty at most.
ETOS is doable with 2k with exped players, or with a little more with moderately exped players. The other two T2 are harder, but completely doable with a 2-2,5k party if you can play.
2K is the minimum requirement as it states: the bare minimum to enter, you can beat the dungeon, but it will be pain. But there is a difference between 2k players: one understands, that he needs 60% resist ingored, even if his power is at most 7-10k, the other has 20% resistance ignored, and do a lot less damage even if he has 15k power. A random pug don't even know about these things.
IMO if you (not you personally, random player) don't know what to do, you should not beat a dungeon. That is difficulty. No developer team should adjust dungeon difficulty to pugs ever.
Knowing what to do, learn how to overcome the challenges will SAVE you. If not, get some equipment before entering the dungeon again, even a few percent of lifesteal or crit can be decisive.
I pugged a lot in mod 2 and after. If I came across a good player, we pick up each other to friendlist, and went together next time. If we faced a difficult situation, we learned how to beat it, use different rotations or builds. IT's still doable now even without help from experienced players, altough there are more of them now, who can help you if you want to learn.
The problem is, that there is a big gap between T1 and T2, no between, like Lair of Mad Dragon or PK was before.
As I wrote before, no learning curve, not enough dungeons with different difficulty, where you can learn to play your charakter.
And pugs don't even have to learn, if it's enough to pray for an OP or BIS GWF to randomly queue with you, that can carry you through.
Playing a MMO is about community and teamplay. If you cant play in a team, and you dont want to learn how to play, then you are better off with a single player non-online RPG.
(p.s. by "you" I mean a random player)
They just downgraded "AD" and prices, I wish same happen to gear and older dungeons are brought back. Then can again complete Spellplague with rank4´s and low level blue gear.... as CW I still love push objects over edges and kite around.
Voting is free and voters protected by "Anonymity"... just my IMHO.
You need to identify the problem:
You die too often? Why is that? Healing is too low, the DC is undergeared? If it is: what different rotation could he use to maximize his effectiveness? Is he a faithful or a righteous? Faithful would be better for low-geared players, where righteous not really good for there.
Or Tank not aggroing well? If that is the problem, how could he be more effective?
What kills you actually? Is it the boss? - Are you standing in a red zone? or Is it the mobs? - how could you controll or kill them faster? Should the Tank take care of the boss or the mobs.
For example etos: you have a tank, can tank the boss. You have a DC, it's better for the party to stand near the boss. You don't have enough dps, therefore you can't win by only dps - so 1 dps-ing boss, ALL of the others have to kill/control the mobs. Prioritize: who is the most important to take care of: The blademasters? who is the best for that? TR smokebomb can help a lot there. The spiders killing you? The cw can take care of them. The cw could use different skills - Shard can be used effectively against spiders for example, or when the blademasters jumps near the boss.
etcetc etc. There is a lot way to overcome dps problem, but you can't do that with pugs: they quit after the 1st failure at boss.
This is come to educate us about the forum users ?
I can already group us users into two groups, those that come here to read / 'talk' and learn things on the way or with the intention to learn or help others.
And those that come to complain about something. - not mutually exclusive, but I'll refer to the main reason people come.
Those in group A most likely to understand that the game has no end game content fitting the end game gear, the game itself provides. So most likely to vote "it's to easy" in hope the problem will be solved.
Those in group B will most likely vote "It's to hard"
This has nothing to do with the problems of the game, and only drags people into your personal 'flame' war with others in the forum. Is the "rich boys" is a snide comment ? What this adjective supposed to bring ? I'm not rich nor a boy and yet want a challange to overcome with my friends, and progress, as MMO (or most games) should provide me.
If you can't keep your remarks about people who are more geared than you I will advice you to not post at all. 1. BS. You dont get to tell me "ohh you progressed for 3 years to get your gear and optimized your build, now throw it all away so you can play / have fun."
2. MMOs based on progress, you get more gear you get harder mobs, you get better gear, you get harder mobs, very simple, same mechanism as even Tetris, once this ends people find something else to do, and not in the this game.. Will you play Tetris for 2000 hours on level 1 ?
I hope you understand why the game can't allow to ask people to go "naked". Or why you as a player thinking it's a valid argument is just insulting. Sure they can, and yes it is, I've explained it to you in length, but just for clarity sake, run 1 T1 per day OR 1 skirmish, nothing else and you can get an Ion stone in two months. Yes it's slow but progress, you have what ? 6 toons and none has an augment ?
It is your choice to pug, it is your choice to get army of alts with them not having 'minimal gear' like augment.
You can't blame others for the dungeons being hard for you and at the same time insist on not doing any simple action that will progress you. This is how pugs, become non pugs, most people realize very fast that pressing "k" will get them nowhere and move on...