Pushing your IL

gleichgewichtnw · January 2016

Im a support charakter as twink. Already do my job in T2 without problems. But I want the Demogorgon artifact set for myself and for that I need edemo with 2,5k IL.

I will not do much DPS but can debuff the enemies and at least I know how to do the fight.

So how to best push your IL (of course not without improve your character)?
With better enchantments? Improve your artifact gear? Farming more campaign boons? Do temporary potions add?

urabask · January 2016

gleichgewichtnw said:
Im a support charakter as twink. Already do my job in T2 without problems. But I want the Demogorgon artifact set for myself and for that I need edemo with 2,5k IL.

I will not do much DPS but can debuff the enemies and at least I know how to do the fight.

So how to best push your IL (of course not without improve your character)?
With better enchantments? Improve your artifact gear? Farming more campaign boons? Do temporary potions add?

By twink do you mean your alt? Because you can just farm the ichor on your main and buy the weapons for your alt (they're Bind to Account).

thefabricant · January 2016

gleichgewichtnw said:
Im a support charakter as twink. Already do my job in T2 without problems. But I want the Demogorgon artifact set for myself and for that I need edemo with 2,5k IL.

I will not do much DPS but can debuff the enemies and at least I know how to do the fight.

So how to best push your IL (of course not without improve your character)?
With better enchantments? Improve your artifact gear? Farming more campaign boons? Do temporary potions add?

Artifacts. The bottem row add a lot if you get them to mythic and its the cheapest way to get ilvl.

santralafax · January 2016

I'm really unclear what he means by twink in a lvl 70 context. We're really talking about gearing up....

putzboy78 · January 2016

defiantone99 said:
Item level is wonky. You can get a good IL just by equipping Dragon's hoard rank 12s. Ranking up everything to Epic should get you to 2.5k though, or close.

but its a vast improvement over gear score right? I mean who wants to count companions and boons toward your score when you can count dragon hoards

ftryda · January 2016

+1 @putzboy78 haha

gleichgewichtnw · January 2016

A twink is for me as MMO-newbie a charakter that is not my main, which I spend time and AD to get him BIS. But an charakter that I can take to help out in a dungeon, if that class is missing in the grp.
At least we call it so in our guild.

So I dont want to spend much AD on him. R12 enchants or mythic Artifacts (i dont even have mythic on my main) is too expensive. But ty for the advises.

beckylunatic · January 2016

gleichgewichtnw said:
A twink is for me as MMO-newbie a charakter that is not my main, which I spend time and AD to get him BIS. But an charakter that I can take to help out in a dungeon, if that class is missing in the grp.
At least we call it so in our guild.

So I dont want to spend much AD on him. R12 enchants or mythic Artifacts (i dont even have mythic on my main) is too expensive. But ty for the advises.

People would probably just call that an alt... an alternative character that you've geared up a bit in order for it to be playable, but not as good as your main.

I'd say the same as lot of other people. Rank 7+ enchants (including utility slots), artifacts refined to epic, have something in your armor and weapon enchant slots. Guild gear or Drowcraft are both excellent options for alts. Drowcraft shirt and pants are fairly inexpensive and a spot to put a few more enchants. 2.5k is something you can achieve with a combination of minor improvements instead of pushing for one major one.

A twink to most people (in this slang) is a character that you do put a ton of money into, in order to be more powerful than should really be possible for the amount of time invested. They are "twinked out" with a lot of expensive stuff they didn't earn.

zukn75 · January 2016

The classic defintition of Twink is a character who has all his gear provided and is leveled up by the actions of others, the twinked character provides nothing and is merely a sink for others efforts.
You my friend are looking to create an Alt, a character played by one player who is used to fill in time , gaps or hunting opportunities the Main will not be suited to. A small defintition change but a large perception change,
I'll help gear up an alt, but I personally despise twinking

onegaki101 · January 2016

SIgh people using words incorrectly. You are level 70(max level), you are not a twink. A Twink is a character having items that are normally beyond your reach for the character's level. Example: rank 12 enchants at level 10. Legendary artifacts at level 10. Equipment without level requirements but could only be attained if you had a character that could complete the epic dungeon.

So as many stated, you are looking to gear up your alt high enough to enter a specific dungeon. Improving artifact, enchantment, and boons. Which way is better, depends on how much you want to spend. Boons are usually the cheapest but it is slow. Artifacts is the second best as it gives you more stats for a relatively low cost. Enchantment would give you the most, but it is the most expensive.

zukn75 · January 2016

And while you can push the item level to make an invoked leveled character with no boons or companions, and enchantment IL coming from utility slots to over 2500.
It begs the question how valid is IL? Personaly I think it a useless measure. But the game design and the loot head community embrace it. Competency gating is what I'd prefer. You can't progress until you complete an individual quest, and vary the quests, make something other than dps the test.

santralafax · January 2016

onegaki101 said:
Boons are usually the cheapest but it is slow.

Do boons count toward iLevel? I didn't think they did. Perhaps I am incorrect?

In theory, I thought you could count up the iLevel of all your gear to get your complete iLevel. Not counting companions and *their* equipment.

bitt3rnightmar3 · January 2016

I don't believe that boons have any effect on IL. IL is dependent completely on items. I can take off all my enchants/weapons and stand there completely with nothing and have zero IL but I still have boons giving me stats- which is a totally different thing.

beckylunatic · January 2016

santralafax said:
Do boons count toward iLevel? I didn't think they did. Perhaps I am incorrect?

They do not, so they won't help meet a queue requirement no matter how helpful they are.

Stat boons did used to increase gear score, as did other things that no longer count (pets, ability score bonuses).

rollingonit · January 2016

To me, its a mix of both morenthar and defiantone. Sometimes in combination, farming non twinks for PVP lvling purposes.

But it's always a lower than max lvl char, using endgame items or BIS items, that a typical/avg player wouldnt normally have while leveling.

It's really popular in open world PVP games.

namelesshero347 · January 2016

I've done eDemo with DPS, tank, and DC, and I find DC to be the least useful in eDemo. And you will be doing it with 2500 iLvl, which may make you a liability. I would grind it with your main.

bitt3rnightmar3 · January 2016

RE: Liability-
I've heard people stating the benefits of high prophet in Epic demo from DCs- only from DCs who wear high prophet which I find to have a likely bias in this argument. - While I don't want to debate the set it's self I feel like if I personally was going to be wearing level 60 gear in the highest level epic content of the game right now logically it seems like a liability unless I have got R12s and mythic artis and legendary gear already- Which I definitely do not have. The set while it was good for certain builds- always had it's weak points in that it was a tier 1 set and had lower stats. IE- something a twink DC would potentially wear.

If the DC is dps they wouldn't really be a liability if they are high DPS. I play a healer~ While in there I feel like other than spamming healing spells and casting damage mitigation it seems like I'm a waste other than making the dps live a few seconds longer. The results werent bad-(I got silver and gold the times I've been in there) but I've heard people complain about failing edemo because they are lacking healers or tanks in. I guess it just depends on the crowd.

aquemeni1978 · January 2016

Armor reinforcement kits, especially the major ones, are an easy way to crank up your ilvl a bit.

smulch · January 2016

DCs are a liability in edemo, because the vast majority of the player base is unable to play the class. It's extremely rare that I see a heal on anyone with a purple beam on them.

putzboy78 · January 2016

namelesshero347 said:
I've done eDemo with DPS, tank, and DC, and I find DC to be the least useful in eDemo. And you will be doing it with 2500 iLvl, which may make you a liability. I would grind it with your main.

Your doing it wrong, I've won damage and heals in successful edemo runs.

bitt3rnightmar3 said:
RE: Liability-
I've heard people stating the benefits of high prophet in Epic demo from DCs- only from DCs who wear high prophet which I find to have a likely bias in this argument. - While I don't want to debate the set it's self I feel like if I personally was going to be wearing level 60 gear in the highest level epic content of the game right now logically it seems like a liability unless I have got R12s and mythic artis and legendary gear already- Which I definitely do not have. The set while it was good for certain builds- always had it's weak points in that it was a tier 1 set and had lower stats. IE- something a twink DC would potentially wear.

High Prophet is useless in phase 1, but awesome in phase 2 (assuming you have a high dps team and can melt the boss instead of dealing with the yellow/black circles) and phase 3 (if the group is smart enough to bring the boss close to the door so they can stay safe or under the protection of a good tank.

smulch said:
DCs are a liability in edemo, because the vast majority of the player base is unable to play the class. It's extremely rare that I see a heal on anyone with a purple beam on them.

Qualifying a DCs impact by heals is an open display of ignorance of the class. DCs are damage mitigators and the best buff/debuff class in the game. What DCs add to the match do not get quantified in the charts.

All in all a "twink" will be a liability regardless of class. Why would a twink GF/OP/DC stand out more than a twink DPS? Because those classes are both rarer (you are less likely to have another in your party to cover their lack of skill) and do not have the redundancy of the dps role in a 10 person team. I doubt main DCs make up 10% of the population (yes everyone leveled one for the artifact but having one and having one as a main is to different things). A long time ago @akromatik posted statistics on population and class distribution. I would sure like @StrumSlinger to post a similar report but also break down class distribution by ilvl, i.e. 3k+

asterotg · January 2016

smulch said:
DCs are a liability in edemo, because the vast majority of the player base is unable to play the class. It's extremely rare that I see a heal on anyone with a purple beam on them.

The problems for a DC in EDemo are mechanics and the lack of understanding them.

Many tanks cant grab/ hold aggro in EDemo, even if you have a tank. Heal DC gets aggro and dies. No utility at all. Furthermore, you cant outheal one hits.

I play a rightous HP DO DC. If I heal, it is by chance, due to passives and divine glow. I even unslotted astral seal, bc of the heal aggro in round one. I use HG, DG, PoD and BtS. With a somehow decent group we are done with the 2nd and 3rd phase in 1-2 minutes. Premade ~30 seconds.

As putzboy78 said, if you have a decent DC, buffing and debuffing, your runs are easier, than with a HP machine. If you are a healer, you can use the daily, that mitigates all of them dmg and gives CC immunity for 4 hits, if needed or, as I do, HG.

IMO a well played 2.5k DC is more effective. than most dps classes wth a similar IL, bc the buff/ debuffs dont depend on your gear (exept HP).

adinosii · January 2016

asterotg said:

I play a rightous HP DO DC. If I heal, it is by chance, due to passives and divine glow. I even unslotted astral seal, bc of the heal aggro in round one. I use HG, DG, PoD and BtS. With a somehow decent group we are done with the 2nd and 3rd phase in 1-2 minutes. Premade ~30 seconds.

As putzboy78 said, if you have a decent DC, buffing and debuffing, your runs are easier, than with a HP machine. If you are a healer, you can use the daily, that mitigates all of them dmg and gives CC immunity for 4 hits, if needed or, as I do, HG.

This is really the reason DC is my favourite class - the flexibility and the ability to be useful in a number of different ways - depending on whether you like playing solo, in PUGs, guild-premades or do PvP, you can come up with a number of different builds that bring something valuable to the table.

Now, I started playing a DC on day 1 of the open beta, although I later took a year-long break from the game. When I returned, I discovered much to my surprise that my old HP set was still considered useful.....but it is not perfect. I would really only recommend using it with a highly geared group of people which know exactly what they are doing and could complete the content anyhow - the only difference with HP is that it helps you melt things just a little bit faster.

Basically, High Prophet is only useful when you really don't need it in the first place.

However, when playing with a PUG, a low-geared group or when playing solo, I would not recommend wearing HP - simply because you are too squishy - too few HPs. You can compensate to a degree if you are in a big guild and select the HP boon, put HP enchants on the armor pieces and radiant enchantments in your defense slots, but that means you have to sacrifice other things instead.

So, yes, High Prophet has its uses, but it is not the absolutely best in all circumstances....and regarding the subject of this thread, it will actually lower your TiL quite a bit.

I'm aiming for the Elemental Dragonflight set for solo play instead.

thefabricant · January 2016

adinosii said:

asterotg said:

I play a rightous HP DO DC. If I heal, it is by chance, due to passives and divine glow. I even unslotted astral seal, bc of the heal aggro in round one. I use HG, DG, PoD and BtS. With a somehow decent group we are done with the 2nd and 3rd phase in 1-2 minutes. Premade ~30 seconds.

As putzboy78 said, if you have a decent DC, buffing and debuffing, your runs are easier, than with a HP machine. If you are a healer, you can use the daily, that mitigates all of them dmg and gives CC immunity for 4 hits, if needed or, as I do, HG.
This is really the reason DC is my favourite class - the flexibility and the ability to be useful in a number of different ways - depending on whether you like playing solo, in PUGs, guild-premades or do PvP, you can come up with a number of different builds that bring something valuable to the table.

Now, I started playing a DC on day 1 of the open beta, although I later took a year-long break from the game. When I returned, I discovered much to my surprise that my old HP set was still considered useful.....but it is not perfect. I would really only recommend using it with a highly geared group of people which know exactly what they are doing and could complete the content anyhow - the only difference with HP is that it helps you melt things just a little bit faster.

Basically, High Prophet is only useful when you really don't need it in the first place.

However, when playing with a PUG, a low-geared group or when playing solo, I would not recommend wearing HP - simply because you are too squishy - too few HPs. You can compensate to a degree if you are in a big guild and select the HP boon, put HP enchants on the armor pieces and radiant enchantments in your defense slots, but that means you have to sacrifice other things instead.

So, yes, High Prophet has its uses, but it is not the absolutely best in all circumstances....and regarding the subject of this thread, it will actually lower your TiL quite a bit.

I'm aiming for the Elemental Dragonflight set for solo play instead.

I disagree, I pug with my dc sometimes, with high prophet on and I pug with my CW sometimes, with high vizier on. You got to be a lot more careful, true, but the bonus it provides is significant. It makes bad pug groups look like ok groups without the HP/HV and it makes good groups look amazing.

onegaki101 · January 2016

santralafax said:

onegaki101 said:
Boons are usually the cheapest but it is slow.
Do boons count toward iLevel? I didn't think they did. Perhaps I am incorrect?

In theory, I thought you could count up the iLevel of all your gear to get your complete iLevel. Not counting companions and *their* equipment.

Boons give stats so they improve ilevel.

beckylunatic · January 2016

onegaki101 said:
Boons give stats so they improve ilevel.

That's wrong. Ilvl is only affected by *items* which are assigned a value. Boons don't have a value in ilvl calculations.

icyclass · January 2016

aquemeni1978 said:
Armor reinforcement kits, especially the major ones, are an easy way to crank up your ilvl a bit.

Expensive though.

gleichgewichtnw · January 2016

I thought armor reinforcement dont add to ilvl since a patch?

jhpnw · January 2016

things that go into your 12 character slots or 4 arti slots give item level nothing else. boons do not and armor reinforcement kits do very little for IL since a patch some add just 1 to IL . For same money you can buy shirt and pants with slots they will boost a lot of il. Get artis to purple are cheapest way as of now to ad IL and make sure main and off hand are purple if not you should have mul or ensorcelled purple in those spots.

smulch · January 2016

gleichgewichtnw said:
I thought armor reinforcement dont add to ilvl since a patch?

They do. It's just not as huge as it used to be

putzboy78 · February 2016

40k HP is tough in T2s, but with a good tank and healer the lvl60 gear is better than the lvl50 gear. It's when you go with non-traditional parties that it gets rough, especially if your topping dps in your lvl60 gear

wildfirede · February 2016

zukn75 said:
The classic defintition of Twink is a character who has all his gear provided and is leveled up by the actions of others, the twinked character provides nothing and is merely a sink for others efforts.
You my friend are looking to create an Alt, a character played by one player who is used to fill in time , gaps or hunting opportunities the Main will not be suited to. A small defintition change but a large perception change,
I'll help gear up an alt, but I personally despise twinking

For me personally "twink" came as a term way back in WoW for a character that has BiS items for his level - which most of the time was 19 or 29 - as PvP brackets were 10-19 and 20-29. So you twinked your lvl 19 rogue with the most HAMSTER daggers and enchants and were one shooting poor level 10-19 newbies. Kinda i have a small HAMSTER thing.

"Main" would be the character that is max leveled, max geared and has all the other characters working for him.

"Alt" would be some character you play on a semi regular basis - with some gear which he was able to collect - but not on the expense of the main

and "Mule" is the character you store your R5 Stones/Pray with.

Sadly NWN does not reward playing your main, as at least for me i get more profit running my alts thru Temple of the Spider two times each, than farming whatever with my main.

Pushing your IL

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