to get to topic....it really is that poor as written above, stomp or get stomped, cowardring, no cowardring but semipremade, invincable DC that keeps up hole group, oncycling GF rushing through hole team...no that´s no fun that´s c.rap in between you have two great matches, noone cheates, all have fun and it is from no interest if you win or not.... but than, 20 matches like above 4k+vs <2k and the coward-armada that has written on their flaggs "We will spoil until noone queues any more"
100% agree on removing tenacity. Its funny how the same arguments being proven now were brought up when it was first introduced. Nobody wanted to maintain 2 sets of gear.
Also, devs have to do something about the rings. Almost all of them completely unbalance a match.
With 8k recovery, 20k power and snail + burning daggers, i can do SE/BB before Lurker assault's/CB buff ends. But my SE isn't the one doing 150k damages (around50-60k)
What does high defence have to do with shocking execution
To the devs:: Please fix SE that it respects at least tenacity OR if you want to remove tenacity fix it to respect defense and Balance TR's outgoing DMG accordingly
Or better yet remove every piercing dmg from the game. YES, that includes the CW's 66% res ignore for "Control purposes " and some W.enchants that *coughs* "work as intended" *coughs* )
Anything more then 4k recovery on a tr and your just wasting stats
Especially after mod 6 that capstones were removed , you are not wasting ANY stats on ANY class if you have designed your build around those stats, so .... No you are not . end of story .
With 8k recovery, 20k power and snail + burning daggers, i can do SE/BB before Lurker assault's/CB buff ends. But my SE isn't the one doing 150k damages (around50-60k)
Anything more then 4k recovery on a tr and your just waisting stats but ok you 2 pc gwfs know everything
I know TR's with nearly 20k power and 10k recovery... they will courage breaker,smokebomb and then shocking you before the smoke bomb is done lol
NERFFFF them all
That´s what was ment by "extreme builds" as...kweassa or someone else wrote before. but from my side as warlock facing them, it is exactly this extrem build who do good by chaining cc with high piercing damage normally I do not have much to counter them, couragebreaker+ smokebomb....and the moment my class "snails" out of red zone...wushhhh SE so that´s the moments I take ring of vision or ambush (rare moments) ... to get anything done, otherwise you do not get one step into a match, in case these rings would not exist, I would be that far away from being competetive, some TR´s I can face with ease on the other hand I never take coward since it just kills every match imo
But, any class can stack recovery and AP gain... This isn't specific to TRs. Just slot silvery on offense slots, take any feats/boon related to AP gain and recovery. But don't expect to do lots of damages.
But, any class can stack recovery and AP gain... This isn't specific to TRs. Just slot silvery on offense slots, take any feats/boon related to AP gain and recovery. But don't expect to do lots of damages.
But no class can ignore crit and arp, relying on one encounter dealing piercing and having a 100% critchance from stealth. I hope you see the difference?
0
dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited January 2016
: looks at first post starting the thread:
Hey, whilst you're at the analysis can you just rewrite the scripts to fix it too?
:waits five minutes, waits a bit more:
I came back and edited myself.
He has a few more threads... mostly about Guardian Fighters.
"Guardian fighters from a guardian fighter's propsective" "what do guardians do now?" "teach an old dog new tricks? - GF PvF" "TR's need major buffs" "Hmmm DC's..."
Compare that with this post, and form your own opinions dear readers.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
This is no problem of this mod, but of the lack of interest in PvP by the Devs. I played PvP since beta, PuG and premade.
I got got gear, t. feytouched, t. elven, t. vorpal and t. neg, R 12s, ... . Last module they screwed it up with AP drains, now with the rings. I dont want to participate in this 'armsrace of lameness', so I stopped playing PvP, like many players I know or knew.
I know, that the general numbers of players declined, but if you compare the leaderboard of ~2 years ago and now, 5k pages <500 pages, you know, that they lost more of their PvP players.
How should there be a decent ELO, if a functional ELO with 10 times the players and a lower gear gap was abandoned, bc the que times was 30 minutes+ (some might remember this).
I read this posts and hope, that someone who can change things tries something different, bc the way it is, there is no fun in PvP anymore.
I didn't read any of this because all of you are wasting your breath. Cryptic/PWI doesn't give a horse droppings about PvP, if they did the Ring of Cowardice 0 second cooldown would have been fixed in a patch the first week of its release. That ring is just icing on the crapcake that is current PvP.
Stack 9k recovery just for itc? I don't even touch Itc
I will try my best, since I do not play TR , I hopefully can get you to the point.
TR deals piercing damage , right? Piercing-damage ignores Arp, DR, Defence, Deflect...anything and the higher your power the more damage, right? So first get power, since you do not need focus on arp for dealing piercing, just do not invest in it. Being a stealth build, lots of ppl say TR deals 100% crit from stealth, ergo your SE will be a crit, right? So you do not need to invest in crit as lots of classes have to do. First strike gives you a big damage boost too, nly thing to do is SE, get out of combat, and SE again...not so easy against some classes but some do not DOT you that much--> GWF, GF, some more?
Shocking execution is a daily, so you need AP gain as much as possible, right?
recovery mod 6 (did it change?): 200 points of Recovery provides 1% Recharge Speed Increase and every 400 points of Recovery provides 1% Action Point Gain. --> so 10k recovery=22% AP gain + cloak 4% + overloads 2,5% when active buff, sure there are more ways to go burnig dagger+ snail = 50% instant AP from one daily ! SE a target to death below 20% = refilled AP bar (really?lol) mysthic cleric sigil for moments you can´t go on chainning SE...:)
As setil wrote: "With 8k recovery, 20k power and snail + burning daggers, i can do SE/BB before Lurker assault's/CB buff ends. But my SE isn't the one doing 150k damages (around50-60k) " ....did he really ment he does lurker assault+ courage breaker and on top Blood bath+ Shocking execution in a row before the other both buffs end? That´s ironiccaly ment right, otherwise we can take TR´s At Wills and encounter and give to another class SO in case I would play a competetive TR in PVP I would chose this way.
What we also told you several times, CB+SB+SE is one of these funny things: fist you cc the target let him crawl like a lame snail, than you bathe him in red sauce and the moment he crawls out of this mega aoe you shock him... be sure he will love it
So, in case I misunderstood things and just wrote bullshiet, sry for that, I never played a TR.
Ok you right about some things still wouldn't stack that much recovery tho.. You should delete your comment unless you want more rouges running that build
Ok you right about some things still wouldn't stack that much recovery tho.. You should delete your comment unless you want more rouges running that build
they already do, no secret. since this game/PVP dies for sure and my class gets stomped by most classes with a good (or extreme) setup, I couldn´t care less perma dazing hunter-SE spaming TR - unkillable DC and OP - onecycling GF and CW and GWF who only have to slot two enchants and burst all down. the time to turn things back is over for sure and there is and will be no real contest in PVP, most people did undersatnd that long ago and left. I do not want to discourage anyone from doing PVP, but there is not the smallest hope or sign telling me that this company has any clue --> How to get PVP running in this game !
Nerfing self-heals to that extreme would end PVP for all players who are not maxed out. All of those numbers are based on Dark Rank 12s, full boons, and Mythic Wheel.
None of these mechanics were around in this form prior to say mod 5? Non healing classes had to rely on healers to stay alive for periods of time.
Let's ignore the fact that REGEN existed since day 1 and was THE core mechanic in pvp since mod 0. As always you selectively forget things and propose to tackle one issue only, you casually say "oh np, nerf life steal but make better matchmaking", Like holy HAMSTER do you even realize that fixing match making is a bigger issue than the 10 most biggest pvp problems right now? how can you even nonchalantly mention it when suggesting a solution to anything haha.
If you want to approach problem solving you have to start at the edges, not in the center, fix stuff that won't change how other things work, then move on from there. (Hint: it doesn't start with life steal).
fact is a fact pvp right now is so f up that. i deside to go lower lvl pvp and i relized they give me 42k hp Like 4x my base and my damage is the same it took me 6mins to kill and SW were full rank 12s this is BS they need to fix that double hp is fine but x4 pvp is boring then and almost imposable to get the boons now
0
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
PVP is fun, you stand there and wait 5 to 8 seconds while your are stunned, drained, slowed and cant get off any encounters, then just as you are about to do something, you get knocked back 20 feet. Those rings are a disaster and took whatever fun that was left in pvp completely out.
I don't understand why the devs simply just take the rings out like what's it gonna take? The whole pc and Xbox pvp community for Yall to make a change? Because seems like that's the way it's going, it's insane how this company can care less about pvp
I don't understand why the devs simply just take the rings out like what's it gonna take? The whole pc and Xbox pvp community for Yall to make a change? Because seems like that's the way it's going, it's insane how this company can care less about pvp
When i started this game 09/14 things were not that bad at end of mod 4 but lots of problems were known. You read the same threads and comment as you could 1,5 years ago, all in all forum melted heavily. nothing changed in the sum, thing got worse.
I blaim the devs for not doing ANYTHING, so sick of the state of this game now, that i ragequit from a match for the first time ever. Every single class has something broken and gamechanging and top of that we only have 2 freaking maps since beta! And devs keep throwing in crazy op rings/drain that is not WAI amongs other things.
No wounder most of the "old" pvpers quit the game. TOO many broken stuff, same old maps, STUPID op GH boons that takes forver to get unless you are a hugh guild. ( some of us hate to have to much ppl in the guild).
Not seen any devs respond to any feedback in months, they just do what they want and extrymly slow aswell.
I blaim the devs for not doing ANYTHING, so sick of the state of this game now, that i ragequit from a match for the first time ever. Every single class has something broken and gamechanging and top of that we only have 2 freaking maps since beta! And devs keep throwing in crazy op rings/drain that is not WAI amongs other things.
No wounder most of the "old" pvpers quit the game. TOO many broken stuff, same old maps, STUPID op GH boons that takes forver to get unless you are a hugh guild. ( some of us hate to have to much ppl in the guild).
Not seen any devs respond to any feedback in months, they just do what they want and extrymly slow aswell.
With you there bro. We didnt ask for all these crappy things. Drains/Wards - that same amount of TIME could have been spent developing a new PVP map.
SHPVP - a utter failure. They invited us to the alpha/beta tests then didnt even take our feedback.
They keep releasing broken HAMSTER every module. They introduce more broken things than they fix each module.
Ever since module 3, this has been a downhill trend. Each module makes things more broken than the last, less balanced, and worst part about it is that each module they make things more and more expensive! So the gear gap now between a fresh 70 and a BIG player is CRAZY.
Back in the old days, like mod 1, you could take maybe 2-3 fresh 60s versus a BIS player at 60 and it would be a tough fight. You would probably win, but it would be a cool fight.
Today, if I meet 3 fresh 70s in PVP, I throw 2 hidden daggers and all three of them die from no tenacity. Even if they HAVE tenacity, I follow that up with IBS on 1, Daily on the other, then at will 2x more and ive killed all three of them. The gear gap (for me) has ruined the game.... Not to mention unkillable paladins, or DCs that are immortal.... Stealth rings, etc etc. Its just a JOKE
1) Remove companions from SH PVP. 2) Make SH PVP a 15 vs 15 (these two alone would massively cut down on lag and make it more fun too)
3) Fix the HAMSTER paladin perma bubble. Make it so they cant gain AP while active, cut duration in PVP in half, fix echos of light proccing off auras.
4) Fix the DC capstone - I hear its over healing and avnt tested yet but a REALLY easy way to do this would be just to put an ICD on it of about 30 seconds where it cannot proc on the same target more than once per 30 seconds
5) Remove healing feats/abilities from NON healing classes
6) Remove Endless Consumption and replace it with something else - like just pure life steal % chance
7) Increase the BASE HP of lvl 70 players by another 20k ish.
8) Develop a new PVP map - would take maybe <8 hours to do this FYI.
9) FIX matchmaking so it throws out ELO and matches players based on item level instead (you will need to either do a "gear lock" or better would be an internal system that records players highest ilevel achieved so it always goes off that)
I wouldnt expect any major DEV posts about anything until the next module is announced. They have a skeleton crew manning the game until they do big content pushes then they bring the DEV crew over to work on, create, and push out the next content.
Any PVP changes would have to come then, and I highly doubt they will come, since its clear they dont give a rip about PVP. Otherwise Pally would have been fixed by now, rings would have been fixed asap, LB and NCL would be in different states as well as matchmaking/ELO.
For all these reasons, I have taken a break from the game. I visit the forums more than I am in game and probably wont log in until substantial things are changed. Thats just me though... Sick of investing millions each module to stay BIS but to have none of it matter since there are so many broken/stupid issues with PVP. Ill just wait until its all fixed (if it ever is) and then spend a few mil to get caught back up to BIS.
I wouldnt expect any major DEV posts about anything until the next module is announced. They have a skeleton crew manning the game until they do big content pushes then they bring the DEV crew over to work on, create, and push out the next content.
Any PVP changes would have to come then, and I highly doubt they will come, since its clear they dont give a rip about PVP. Otherwise Pally would have been fixed by now, rings would have been fixed asap, LB and NCL would be in different states as well as matchmaking/ELO.
For all these reasons, I have taken a break from the game. I visit the forums more than I am in game and probably wont log in until substantial things are changed. Thats just me though... Sick of investing millions each module to stay BIS but to have none of it matter since there are so many broken/stupid issues with PVP. Ill just wait until its all fixed (if it ever is) and then spend a few mil to get caught back up to BIS.
Glad to hear this from a bis player from a top guild. I personally gave up on this game a while ago, also check in every now and then to see if something has been done about the pile of issues that has accumulated and simply put under the carpet as i invested a lot of time and effort in this game since mod2.
Just came back after a couple months and am disappointed to see that NONE of the game breaking class balance issues have been addressed, in fact i learned they even added some with the introduction of those rings.
Now, i admit im writing this down out of disappointment and resentment for having wasted so much time here, but honestly, how can anyone who is here for PVP still play this game? I think we can all agree that they killed and buried any hope we might have had about them fixing PVP.
Each and every mod i played there was at least one FOTM class with game breaking mechanics to which i had to close an eye and hope i wouldnt get in matches with decent players playing one to actually enjoy the game. Each and every attempt at "class balancing" ended up creating new issues which would again linger indefinitely without any word from the devs. As for the FOTM cycling being done on purpose... I dont even wanna go there.
Cmon, theres only so much insults one's intelligence can take...
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
I wouldnt expect any major DEV posts about anything until the next module is announced. They have a skeleton crew manning the game until they do big content pushes then they bring the DEV crew over to work on, create, and push out the next content.
Any PVP changes would have to come then, and I highly doubt they will come, since its clear they dont give a rip about PVP. Otherwise Pally would have been fixed by now, rings would have been fixed asap, LB and NCL would be in different states as well as matchmaking/ELO.
For all these reasons, I have taken a break from the game. I visit the forums more than I am in game and probably wont log in until substantial things are changed. Thats just me though... Sick of investing millions each module to stay BIS but to have none of it matter since there are so many broken/stupid issues with PVP. Ill just wait until its all fixed (if it ever is) and then spend a few mil to get caught back up to BIS.
but honestly, how can anyone who is here for PVP still play this game?
honestly this is what i ask various premades quite often. they always answer immediately they have always great fun ))))
Comments
stomp or get stomped, cowardring, no cowardring but semipremade, invincable DC that keeps up hole group, oncycling GF rushing through hole team...no that´s no fun that´s c.rap
in between you have two great matches, noone cheates, all have fun and it is from no interest if you win or not.... but than, 20 matches like above 4k+vs <2k and the coward-armada that has written on their flaggs "We will spoil until noone queues any more"
Also, devs have to do something about the rings. Almost all of them completely unbalance a match.
But my SE isn't the one doing 150k damages (around50-60k)
Or better yet remove every piercing dmg from the game. YES, that includes the CW's 66% res ignore for "Control purposes " and some W.enchants that *coughs* "work as intended" *coughs* ) You dont pvp enough Especially after mod 6 that capstones were removed , you are not wasting ANY stats on ANY class if you have designed your build around those stats, so .... No you are not . end of story .
NERFFFF them all
That´s what was ment by "extreme builds" as...kweassa or someone else wrote before.
but from my side as warlock facing them, it is exactly this extrem build who do good by chaining cc with high piercing damage
normally I do not have much to counter them, couragebreaker+ smokebomb....and the moment my class "snails" out of red zone...wushhhh SE
so that´s the moments I take ring of vision or ambush (rare moments) ... to get anything done, otherwise you do not get one step into a match, in case these rings would not exist, I would be that far away from being competetive, some TR´s I can face with ease on the other hand
I never take coward since it just kills every match imo
This isn't specific to TRs.
Just slot silvery on offense slots, take any feats/boon related to AP gain and recovery. But don't expect to do lots of damages.
I hope you see the difference?
Hey, whilst you're at the analysis can you just rewrite the scripts to fix it too?
:waits five minutes, waits a bit more:
I came back and edited myself.
He has a few more threads... mostly about Guardian Fighters.
"Guardian fighters from a guardian fighter's propsective"
"what do guardians do now?"
"teach an old dog new tricks? - GF PvF"
"TR's need major buffs"
"Hmmm DC's..."
Compare that with this post, and form your own opinions dear readers.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
I got got gear, t. feytouched, t. elven, t. vorpal and t. neg, R 12s, ... . Last module they screwed it up with AP drains, now with the rings. I dont want to participate in this 'armsrace of lameness', so I stopped playing PvP, like many players I know or knew.
I know, that the general numbers of players declined, but if you compare the leaderboard of ~2 years ago and now, 5k pages <500 pages, you know, that they lost more of their PvP players.
How should there be a decent ELO, if a functional ELO with 10 times the players and a lower gear gap was abandoned, bc the que times was 30 minutes+ (some might remember this).
I read this posts and hope, that someone who can change things tries something different, bc the way it is, there is no fun in PvP anymore.
at least there will be a fix
TR deals piercing damage , right?
Piercing-damage ignores Arp, DR, Defence, Deflect...anything and the higher your power the more damage, right?
So first get power, since you do not need focus on arp for dealing piercing, just do not invest in it.
Being a stealth build, lots of ppl say TR deals 100% crit from stealth, ergo your SE will be a crit, right?
So you do not need to invest in crit as lots of classes have to do.
First strike gives you a big damage boost too, nly thing to do is SE, get out of combat, and SE again...not so easy against some classes but some do not DOT you that much--> GWF, GF, some more?
Shocking execution is a daily, so you need AP gain as much as possible, right?
recovery mod 6 (did it change?): 200 points of Recovery provides 1% Recharge Speed Increase and every 400 points of Recovery provides 1% Action Point Gain.
--> so 10k recovery=22% AP gain + cloak 4% + overloads 2,5% when active buff, sure there are more ways to go
burnig dagger+ snail = 50% instant AP from one daily !
SE a target to death below 20% = refilled AP bar (really?lol)
mysthic cleric sigil for moments you can´t go on chainning SE...:)
As setil wrote: "With 8k recovery, 20k power and snail + burning daggers, i can do SE/BB before Lurker assault's/CB buff ends.
But my SE isn't the one doing 150k damages (around50-60k) "
....did he really ment he does lurker assault+ courage breaker and on top Blood bath+ Shocking execution in a row before the other both buffs end?
That´s ironiccaly ment right, otherwise we can take TR´s At Wills and encounter and give to another class
SO in case I would play a competetive TR in PVP I would chose this way.
What we also told you several times, CB+SB+SE is one of these funny things:
fist you cc the target let him crawl like a lame snail, than you bathe him in red sauce and the moment he crawls out of this mega aoe you shock him... be sure he will love it
So, in case I misunderstood things and just wrote bullshiet, sry for that, I never played a TR.
since this game/PVP dies for sure and my class gets stomped by most classes with a good (or extreme) setup, I couldn´t care less
perma dazing hunter-SE spaming TR - unkillable DC and OP - onecycling GF and CW and GWF who only have to slot two enchants and burst all down.
the time to turn things back is over for sure and there is and will be no real contest in PVP, most people did undersatnd that long ago and left.
I do not want to discourage anyone from doing PVP, but there is not the smallest hope or sign telling me that this company has any clue --> How to get PVP running in this game !
Let's ignore the fact that REGEN existed since day 1 and was THE core mechanic in pvp since mod 0.
As always you selectively forget things and propose to tackle one issue only, you casually say "oh np, nerf life steal but make better matchmaking", Like holy HAMSTER do you even realize that fixing match making is a bigger issue than the 10 most biggest pvp problems right now? how can you even nonchalantly mention it when suggesting a solution to anything haha.
If you want to approach problem solving you have to start at the edges, not in the center, fix stuff that won't change how other things work, then move on from there. (Hint: it doesn't start with life steal).
You read the same threads and comment as you could 1,5 years ago, all in all forum melted heavily.
nothing changed in the sum, thing got worse.
And devs keep throwing in crazy op rings/drain that is not WAI amongs other things.
No wounder most of the "old" pvpers quit the game. TOO many broken stuff, same old maps, STUPID op GH boons that takes forver to get unless you are a hugh guild. ( some of us hate to have to much ppl in the guild).
Not seen any devs respond to any feedback in months, they just do what they want and extrymly slow aswell.
SHPVP - a utter failure. They invited us to the alpha/beta tests then didnt even take our feedback.
They keep releasing broken HAMSTER every module. They introduce more broken things than they fix each module.
Ever since module 3, this has been a downhill trend. Each module makes things more broken than the last, less balanced, and worst part about it is that each module they make things more and more expensive! So the gear gap now between a fresh 70 and a BIG player is CRAZY.
Back in the old days, like mod 1, you could take maybe 2-3 fresh 60s versus a BIS player at 60 and it would be a tough fight. You would probably win, but it would be a cool fight.
Today, if I meet 3 fresh 70s in PVP, I throw 2 hidden daggers and all three of them die from no tenacity. Even if they HAVE tenacity, I follow that up with IBS on 1, Daily on the other, then at will 2x more and ive killed all three of them. The gear gap (for me) has ruined the game.... Not to mention unkillable paladins, or DCs that are immortal.... Stealth rings, etc etc. Its just a JOKE
1) Remove companions from SH PVP.
2) Make SH PVP a 15 vs 15
(these two alone would massively cut down on lag and make it more fun too)
3) Fix the HAMSTER paladin perma bubble. Make it so they cant gain AP while active, cut duration in PVP in half, fix echos of light proccing off auras.
4) Fix the DC capstone - I hear its over healing and avnt tested yet but a REALLY easy way to do this would be just to put an ICD on it of about 30 seconds where it cannot proc on the same target more than once per 30 seconds
5) Remove healing feats/abilities from NON healing classes
6) Remove Endless Consumption and replace it with something else - like just pure life steal % chance
7) Increase the BASE HP of lvl 70 players by another 20k ish.
8) Develop a new PVP map - would take maybe <8 hours to do this FYI.
9) FIX matchmaking so it throws out ELO and matches players based on item level instead (you will need to either do a "gear lock" or better would be an internal system that records players highest ilevel achieved so it always goes off that)
Thats really it ATM
Any PVP changes would have to come then, and I highly doubt they will come, since its clear they dont give a rip about PVP. Otherwise Pally would have been fixed by now, rings would have been fixed asap, LB and NCL would be in different states as well as matchmaking/ELO.
For all these reasons, I have taken a break from the game. I visit the forums more than I am in game and probably wont log in until substantial things are changed. Thats just me though... Sick of investing millions each module to stay BIS but to have none of it matter since there are so many broken/stupid issues with PVP. Ill just wait until its all fixed (if it ever is) and then spend a few mil to get caught back up to BIS.
Just came back after a couple months and am disappointed to see that NONE of the game breaking class balance issues have been addressed, in fact i learned they even added some with the introduction of those rings.
Now, i admit im writing this down out of disappointment and resentment for having wasted so much time here, but honestly, how can anyone who is here for PVP still play this game? I think we can all agree that they killed and buried any hope we might have had about them fixing PVP.
Each and every mod i played there was at least one FOTM class with game breaking mechanics to which i had to close an eye and hope i wouldnt get in matches with decent players playing one to actually enjoy the game. Each and every attempt at "class balancing" ended up creating new issues which would again linger indefinitely without any word from the devs. As for the FOTM cycling being done on purpose... I dont even wanna go there.
Cmon, theres only so much insults one's intelligence can take...