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This is why this mod ruined casual pvp....
freshour
Member Posts: 623 Arc User
I will start by saying I have pvp'd since this game came out. I have pve'd, done every dungeon, speed runs, ring farming back in CN. From having to drag mobs around all over the place, to being good enough to face tank and easy mode it with a pally. Anyway, pvp lets talk about that. So mod 2 was basically the best mod we ever had. It had a couple artifacts that ruined it, but other than that it was amazing.
Ever since then, it has been mostly a power creep in gear, less and less sets, less creativity, more tenacity, more gear gap, endless dailies to get the gear, and then people quit, and you have others with tenacity and gear and those who don't and get 1 shot by every single player in the game and then they also quit.
PVP has maybe 50 people in it who are any good. It encourages zero team play, zero skill, massive guilds with drains that were never tested by a single developer, rings that were NEVER tested by a single dev with no CD's totally ignoring CC resistance, CC immunity, everything.
- So here is how this mod goes. (not all, but most)
You solo Q, you get a premade with drains, you get wrecked.
You solo Q, you get a match of people with zero gear, and you get like 30 kills and you scratch ur head wondering how that happened?
You duo/trio - you get a premade, get wrecked
You duo/trio - you get pugs and destroy them 1k to zero b/c they have PVE gear and no tenacity.
You get 5 people - you crush them 1k to zero or they GG at campfire
You get 5 people - you get another group, it can be a good match, but if they have rank 2 rains and cowardice rings, you will lose by default. Or if they have a TR/DC ap bug spamming shockings, then you will also lose.
EASIEST WAY IN THE WORLD TO FIX IT.
1. Remove tenacity from all gear, and give a base tenacity based off either blue/purple/orange or off item level. We can stop using horrrrrrrribly designed "pvp stats" on their tenacity rings, and actually have rings fit our builds.
2. Bring back the T1/T2 sets via lock box/dungeons (I think we still have a couple dungeons in the game right?) and scale their stats up so we can use set bonuses, unique sets.... not all be in the same generic gear.
3. Have basic pvp weapons from TOB store. Sure the Mul gear has similar damage, but no bonuses or anything, so maybe something in the middle purchased via glory. Or maybe pvp campaign or something (granted they fix all the bugged/broken ones you can't unlock). And for the love of GOD NO REFINING!!!! WE NEED ALTS, not more HAMSTER to refine w/out any good source of RP.
3 things. Honestly, just number 1 would fix 90% of the problems. You guys made this world of endless RP, you fueled all the Chinese gold/rp/ad sellers b/c no one can legit get this RP unless they are a veteran player and have a full 50 toons praying everyday/leadership like I do. You really expect someone to level legit to 70 and have a chance in pvp w/in 6 months? I promise unless they have some serious help or spend insane $$$$$$ they have no shot. (less and less spend money on ur game and more and more google ways to get it cheaper).
PVP is dying. SH pvp is full of multi boxing people just to get q's so they can farm the insane amount of SH's to get the gear on any alts or even mains who didn't get in on the initial month or two we used it. GG is dead.... maybe 5-10 matches per day period. Domination is a joke with cowardice rings/stealth rings/drains none of which were tested or are remotely balanced. I can repel someone across the freaking map who has a dot on me and they are rooted through all CC resist/immunity.
But no... you focus on banning people from the winter event? Seriously?! Like do you devs even know what pvp is like? Have you ever been in a competitive match (they are harder to find now). Go on youtube/twitch and look up the old dev's work back in the previous mods (I know you guys come and go a lot) - but you can see some serious pvp. Competition, strategy, all kinds of rotations for matches that were an hour.... it was insane.
Now, it is 15 minutes. If you have rank 2 drains you win. If you have stealth CW's and Hr's you win. If you have a broken OP (pally) who has a class that has never been fixed is still immortal (Yes they can die with more effort than it takes to kill 4 other bis classes at the same time) and he is using cowardice.... then GG...
- Please devs... Read this. Get that massive chip off your shoulder like you have a handle on this stuff.... and just do a few things to fix the only fun I have left in this game. PVE is a joke. It's boring. It is dailies. PVP is the same 2 maps.... can be boring. But it can also be extremely challenging. We test builds all the time, how the stats work, feats, enchants, etc. For what? Give us back our realm of competition. PVE is a dps race and it is just too easy. Pally made sure that PVE will never be hard again. But PVP..... please.... don't make the rest of the people left go to LOL, or SMITE
PS - future pvp class changes. LEAVE PVE OUT OF IT. You really need to stop ruining the PVE guys who hate PVP just because they are the same class. This makes even more people hate PVP, forces people into one path, one paragon, one build.... you did it for GF/GWF since the orig devs couldn't be creative enough to make different moves in the first place. But please. Make a point to never do it again. It does't make sense, it is not fair, and you have no reason to do so. They are separate. Difference, not related and you only force even more players to leave.
- Thanks for making it all the way to the bottom. I really hope PVP in this game can make it through this mod and I cross every finger and toe I have that the devs don't break it even more in the next mod as I'm sure they are already working on that with 99% of their time rather than fixing how broken mod 4/5/6/7........ have been.
Dom@Freshour - Guardian Fighter.
Ever since then, it has been mostly a power creep in gear, less and less sets, less creativity, more tenacity, more gear gap, endless dailies to get the gear, and then people quit, and you have others with tenacity and gear and those who don't and get 1 shot by every single player in the game and then they also quit.
PVP has maybe 50 people in it who are any good. It encourages zero team play, zero skill, massive guilds with drains that were never tested by a single developer, rings that were NEVER tested by a single dev with no CD's totally ignoring CC resistance, CC immunity, everything.
- So here is how this mod goes. (not all, but most)
You solo Q, you get a premade with drains, you get wrecked.
You solo Q, you get a match of people with zero gear, and you get like 30 kills and you scratch ur head wondering how that happened?
You duo/trio - you get a premade, get wrecked
You duo/trio - you get pugs and destroy them 1k to zero b/c they have PVE gear and no tenacity.
You get 5 people - you crush them 1k to zero or they GG at campfire
You get 5 people - you get another group, it can be a good match, but if they have rank 2 rains and cowardice rings, you will lose by default. Or if they have a TR/DC ap bug spamming shockings, then you will also lose.
EASIEST WAY IN THE WORLD TO FIX IT.
1. Remove tenacity from all gear, and give a base tenacity based off either blue/purple/orange or off item level. We can stop using horrrrrrrribly designed "pvp stats" on their tenacity rings, and actually have rings fit our builds.
2. Bring back the T1/T2 sets via lock box/dungeons (I think we still have a couple dungeons in the game right?) and scale their stats up so we can use set bonuses, unique sets.... not all be in the same generic gear.
3. Have basic pvp weapons from TOB store. Sure the Mul gear has similar damage, but no bonuses or anything, so maybe something in the middle purchased via glory. Or maybe pvp campaign or something (granted they fix all the bugged/broken ones you can't unlock). And for the love of GOD NO REFINING!!!! WE NEED ALTS, not more HAMSTER to refine w/out any good source of RP.
3 things. Honestly, just number 1 would fix 90% of the problems. You guys made this world of endless RP, you fueled all the Chinese gold/rp/ad sellers b/c no one can legit get this RP unless they are a veteran player and have a full 50 toons praying everyday/leadership like I do. You really expect someone to level legit to 70 and have a chance in pvp w/in 6 months? I promise unless they have some serious help or spend insane $$$$$$ they have no shot. (less and less spend money on ur game and more and more google ways to get it cheaper).
PVP is dying. SH pvp is full of multi boxing people just to get q's so they can farm the insane amount of SH's to get the gear on any alts or even mains who didn't get in on the initial month or two we used it. GG is dead.... maybe 5-10 matches per day period. Domination is a joke with cowardice rings/stealth rings/drains none of which were tested or are remotely balanced. I can repel someone across the freaking map who has a dot on me and they are rooted through all CC resist/immunity.
But no... you focus on banning people from the winter event? Seriously?! Like do you devs even know what pvp is like? Have you ever been in a competitive match (they are harder to find now). Go on youtube/twitch and look up the old dev's work back in the previous mods (I know you guys come and go a lot) - but you can see some serious pvp. Competition, strategy, all kinds of rotations for matches that were an hour.... it was insane.
Now, it is 15 minutes. If you have rank 2 drains you win. If you have stealth CW's and Hr's you win. If you have a broken OP (pally) who has a class that has never been fixed is still immortal (Yes they can die with more effort than it takes to kill 4 other bis classes at the same time) and he is using cowardice.... then GG...
- Please devs... Read this. Get that massive chip off your shoulder like you have a handle on this stuff.... and just do a few things to fix the only fun I have left in this game. PVE is a joke. It's boring. It is dailies. PVP is the same 2 maps.... can be boring. But it can also be extremely challenging. We test builds all the time, how the stats work, feats, enchants, etc. For what? Give us back our realm of competition. PVE is a dps race and it is just too easy. Pally made sure that PVE will never be hard again. But PVP..... please.... don't make the rest of the people left go to LOL, or SMITE
PS - future pvp class changes. LEAVE PVE OUT OF IT. You really need to stop ruining the PVE guys who hate PVP just because they are the same class. This makes even more people hate PVP, forces people into one path, one paragon, one build.... you did it for GF/GWF since the orig devs couldn't be creative enough to make different moves in the first place. But please. Make a point to never do it again. It does't make sense, it is not fair, and you have no reason to do so. They are separate. Difference, not related and you only force even more players to leave.
- Thanks for making it all the way to the bottom. I really hope PVP in this game can make it through this mod and I cross every finger and toe I have that the devs don't break it even more in the next mod as I'm sure they are already working on that with 99% of their time rather than fixing how broken mod 4/5/6/7........ have been.
Dom@Freshour - Guardian Fighter.
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Comments
on other way, pvp is so incredibly low entertaiment in this game, so i still somehow hope that someone at cryptic bang the table and say: "we need to rework it" . Its not one game company, its too devaluating their mark, provide entertainment on so low level
like i write before, they have rather ultratoxic forum and losing potential newbies. dont make a much sense. its far worse than bitching about pvp in other games oficial forums
The first inner look at majesty - https://youtu.be/8Yavk790hMA
The second build and some fun - https://youtu.be/b5U0H-Mdkxg
A little update - https://youtu.be/0F-qUKOv4UU
The thread where this can be found - http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1210188/bonk-a-tale-of-damage
They do broken stuff in pupose, so the only way to beat an average player with broken stuff/skills is to outgeared them with money it's easier.
About dailies, simple fact is not to counter bots or chinese farmers, but to keep you addicted to game. They say, play to get stuff, but can we really call that "playing"? Doing same mindless things everyday for hours without any challenge, in what a real person can rely that to bots. It's what industries are doing (and smart ppl), replacing humans by robots to do mindless tasks.
They need to read definition of the word " GAME"; for me a game = laughters, competitions, challenges good times. What we have here ? game = repetitive, frustrations, rages.
About old dungeons... of course they will bring it back one day, they won't throw them or delete the datas, they paid for it, they won't waste that money.
A company, well, a gaming company is not here to please people, they have to make sure they earn money.
What drives me nuts is how they get so focused on new content. When the new content is always so bad. If they would say okay guys, instead of releasing the next mod, we are going to do an entire mod based on bringing back dungeons, and fixing/reworking the old content so it is relevant and difficult. We even hired the old devs who made Sharandar and they are going to help us as they now make more money than any of us and are 10x more creative lol.
The hunt for new mods ... one would be sufficient in a year but 3 or 4?
I don´t need that. If they kept old dungeons and made small improvements/adjustements and fixes to PVP this game would work.
Then #2 wouldnt be to bring back old sets of gear etc etc it would be to NERF all the Self Healing that NON healing classes get.
- Drowned Weapons
- Water Wheel
- Lifesteal
- Feats/Powers on NON_healing classes.
I detailed this out here: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1209433/feedback-pvp-self-healing-is-too-much-ruins-the-fun-pvp-used-to-be/p1
The self healing is probably the BIGGEST issue in the game right now. For a "TL:DR" of my other thread.
- Drowned Weapons: NERF this to 25% (12.5% from HD) of your HP over 8 seconds (basically a bonus potion equivalent)
- Water Wheel (NERF this to 50% (25% because of healing depression))
- Lifesteal (Change Endless Consumption to a 5% CHANCE. Another good change would be make Lifesteal 200:1 and a base of 50% severity. This would drastically cut self healing in PVP.
- Feats/Powers on NON_healing classes. (These need to be removed IMO. Examples: HR's Wilds Medicine, CW's Chaotic Growth, GF's Fighters Recovery, GWF's Restoring Strike are just a few examples.)
But yeah:
1) remove tenacity on gear, give ALL players a base tenacity on character sheet.
2) REMOVE and reduce self healing sources on NON healing classes.
PvP in this game doesn't feel like it was ever intended to be a group activity; there's absolutely no benefit to running around together, beyond the fact that you need 5 (or 50) people beating on some OPs or DCs simultaneously to even see their health meter move. Aside from that, the countdown gets to 1, the gate drops, and it's 5 or 10 or 20 soloists running amok, and the results of the match are, more often than not, a result of random encounters at the same place and time.
DAoC had a system I really liked for group-based PvP: buffing classes buffed group members and had to stay within a certain distance of them or the buffs dropped. Kill the buffer... buffs drop. Once fights started, healers healed, cc classes cc'd, everyone had a role, and well coordinated groups routinely beat better geared guys that didn't work together.
Back to the 'non-starter' comment: yes, they added stupid items that were poorly designed and even more poorly implemented, but I really can't see a way that they can just make them all disappear overnight without losing thousands of (lame-HAMSTER) players who have come to rely on them. Sure, the implementation might be no more difficult than a database delete statement, but once that Pandora's box has been opened and the stupidity has come into the world, there's no way to make it un-happen.
Still... it's nice to dream...
Please clarify a point/reason next time rather than just saying a blanket statement so we can further a discussion
Thats the issue. If healers are too good, you wont need CC. If CC is too good, you wont need healers, etc etc.
I think this is the idea behind me saying we need to remove/lessen self-healing. Self healing is too strong for all nonhealing classes which allows them to not be reliant upon the healers. Which allows you to not feel like you NEED a healer for content.
Do this, then you can start adjusting things as you have mentioned. Remove the NON-core mechanics of the class (like DPS able to heal themselves, CC classes having good damage, etc etc) and youll start seeing those rolls re-emerge again.
core problem is: it takes ages to take part in PVP in this game, so most never come to the point, all that SH Boons, axebeaks, T negations etc. is an unacceptable hurdle to master
you have to cut all down to an acceptable degree, so you will find more premades and people will take part, learning and improving
all I see atm is what is very nicely written at the beginning of this thread, it´s the neverending ammount of gear
free PVP from that, just let some boons be relevant and you can enjoy this game
I have also proposed elsewhere that things like mount stats need to NOT be added to your character in PVP (like companions) as well as Boons - need to only be able to select 1 "active" set of boons rather than having them ALL active.
A proper match making system though would fix this. Yes it IS part of the problem. YOu have a 4k player up against a 2k player, part of the reason that 2k player doesnt stand a chance is because even if they DID "nuke" the 4k player down to 50% Hp, within a few seconds his wheel procs + pots + drowned weapons would have him back to full HP.
Self healing is just ONE of the issues in the game, power creep is another. The difference in sheer stats alone from boons, rank 12s, mounts etc is CRAZY when you compare a 4k BIS player to a "average" 3k Ilevel player without a stat mount. Add in secondary artifacts and depending on how you compare your talking norther of 15k in stats difference. Which is CRAZY.
The gear gap you mention here is just ONE of the issues, self healing is another BIG issue.
tbh forum fades away, thread become repetetive, 90% frustration in it, some good ideas but it all is nothing than theory ignored in every aspect by that company - or better say management - them are the responsable ones for sure
I do think that I have some patience, but my time is nearly up, I can´t see any future in it
I do face lots of games in dom allways some player wearing this stupid cowardring, it is abusive, and poisens every match.
Because, as you know, warlocks and some other classes that deal DOT damage are just repelled to nirvana, GWF does not feal it same way, he goes hulk and delas big burtst, same as GF or some other classes
Since I am to lazy to report these people, I just quit, it´s a waste of time and I hate it.
I also have to say; wearing a stealth revealring and an ambush ring in a TR dominated match gives you a big advantage, a very onesided negative implementation against one single class, despite the fact that the extreme "perms-SE" builds (all 10 seconds ) with 10k recovery, near no crit (100% from stealth) and low arp (pierce) but 20k power and a proper defence, dominate classes like warlock and some else, you get SE´d in a row.
... its all about your build.
I would add CW to your list of "self-healing" primarily with lifesteal + capstone you can nuke them down to low %s and with that capstone plus lifesteal plus drowned + water wheel etc they are back to full VERY quickly.
I just recall 70 and that it was all done via gear. IMO Our base HP should have scaled up ALOT more than it did now. I think players "base" is around 40k? when it should probably be more like 60-75k and then gear should add more given players more EHP than before - less likely to get 1-2 shot.
Players should have tenacity removed from gear and added as a pure "base" to character sheet. and then nerf sources of self-healing as well as fix paladin and add ICD to DC capstone. Fix Cowardice ring to obey CC resist/immune as well as ICD. Add an ICD on the stealth ring so it cannot happen more than once every 30 seconds + stealth should last a max of 6 seconds.
Then I think you would see PVP in a much much better place and players wouldnt NEED paladins to do PVE content given their HP boost.
These are just my thoughts though.
Split the queues and things will be good
sure there are build that rely on one botton, power+recovery focussed, high defence high AP gain , and thes guys spam SE about every 10 seconds i would say, did not look at the clock
it only is like sssshhhh sssshhhh sssshhhhh