pernament double refine doesn't work ?

windquake · December 2015

Hi, I just bought both main hand and offhand from twisted shop. When I did it I got quest that did lead me to npc who gave me Aquamarine that had effect "always under effect of double refine". When I put it into weapon it did give 3k points instead 1,5k but that is all... not a single other of my refine stones are double point even though I leveled my weapon to blue rank 15.
So what is wrong? Wasn't there in underdark patchnotes that we will always have 2x refine on any artifact weapon that is blue+ ?....kinda lost now.

darkstarcrash · December 2015

You misunderstand what "always double refinement" means.

If you put your artifact weapon or offhand into another artifact weapon or offhand, you will always get the double RP bonus. You will not get double RP bonus from refinement stones.

arabatur · December 2015

Cryptic has always had trouble creating Plain English language tootips.

windquake · December 2015

Well they could have pointed it better then all those weird question in npc that you got almost no answer. Anyway thanks, gonna wait for 29th then.

oldbaldyone · December 2015

if I recall correctly, they made several posts clarifying this mechanic, and a dev blog post clarifying it also. While they could add some flavor text to the tooltip to make it even more clear (the tooltip would have to be insanely long), I think saying they haven't gone far enough to clarify this mechanic is a bit of a stretch in this case. No matter what they do, some people just won't get it.

DevBlog: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9603333-developer-blog:-refining-artifact-weapons-change

Always Double Refinement - This applies to items when they are USED to refine other items. They are not subject to normal Double Refinement events at all (so you won't get double, then double again). This also I believe makes the item so that it cannot crit (this may just apply to weapons). There is no effect on the refinement value of items placed IN TO an Always Double Refinement item.

Its just a bone tossed to us to allow them to sleep better at night when they release a new artifact weapon set every mod....even though we still lose 20% each time...its better than nothing./waiting.

zebular · December 2015

The "Always Double Refinement" tag applies only to R15+ Artifact Weapons and works as thus: "Any artifact weapon that has been upgraded to rank 15 or above will always refine into another piece of artifact equipment at double the rate, whether an event is running or not."

As for those with unfounded claims that this is not explained in game:

"A new contact, the “Artifact Enthusiast,” has been added to the Moonstone Mask. She can answer questions regarding this special refining rule, but the short explanation again is: artifact weapons rank 15 and above, including all existing artifact weapons, will have a new tag, “Always Double Refinement.” When this tag is present, that item will always refine into artifact equipment at double the rate and will not be affected by the double refinement event."

nuitrari · December 2015

Wait a second, I used my legendary off-hand today to refine the new twisted off-hand, I refined it from level 1 to level 56 if I'm not wrong, got about 3.7 million refinement points.
You're saying that if I leveled it first to level 15 I would of gotten more points out of my legendary off-hand?

beckylunatic · December 2015

nuitrari said:
Wait a second, I used my legendary off-hand today to refine the new twisted off-hand, I refined it from level 1 to level 56 if I'm not wrong, got about 3.7 million refinement points.
You're saying that if I leveled it first to level 15 I would of gotten more points out of my legendary off-hand?

No. You've also got it backassward. The feeder artifact equipment needs to be at least level 15 to benefit from the feature of not being married to events to get the most out of it. You get no further bonus to the item being fed.

nuitrari · December 2015

Ok cool thanks for clearing that out

glubtal · December 2015

and will not be affected by the double refinement event
So, if I refine it with refinement stones, they wont count double during double refinement event?

theoddis1 · December 2015

glubtal said:
and will not be affected by the double refinement event
So, if I refine it with refinement stones, they wont count double during double refinement event?

you wont get 4x refinement on weapons. your other refinement should be the normal event 2x

beckylunatic · December 2015

glubtal said:
and will not be affected by the double refinement event
So, if I refine it with refinement stones, they wont count double during double refinement event?

Also backassward. When you refine a weapon, all the normal rules apply. When you use an old weapon for RP, the new rules are in effect.

zebular · December 2015

Always Double Refinement has nothing to do with refining stones. Always Double Refinement only applies to Rank 15+ Artifact Weapons, making them Always worth 2x RP (even in Double Refinement Events - meaning they will still be 2x, not 4x) when fed into another piece of Artifact Equipment (doesn't have to be weapons). It has no effect on the items fed into them. Also, before it is asked, yes - Off Hands are considered Weapons. Weapons include main hand and off hand.

mantera47 · December 2015

Maybe seeing actual values will help some people visualize better what "Always Double Refinement" means.

RP values for artifact MH from here: http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Artifact_weapon#Rank_Progression

So to give examples and a comparison between now (Underdark) and Pre-Underdark:

Pre-Underdark:

Normal day (NOT a 2x RP weekend):
Using level 15 artifact MH as RP into artifact MH is worth 17400 RP
Using Peridot as RP into artifact MH is worth 500 RP
Using Aquamarine as RP into artifact MH is worth 1500 RP
Using Lesser Resonance stone as RP into artifact MH is worth 2500 RP

2x RP weekend
Using level 15 artifact MH as RP into artifact MH is worth 34800RP
Using Peridot as RP into artifact MH is worth 1000 RP
Using Aquamarine as RP into artifact MH is worth 3000 RP
Using Lesser Resonance stone as RP into artifact MH is worth 5000 RP

NOW: Underdark:

Normal day (NOT a 2x RP weekend):
Using level 15 artifact MH as RP into artifact MH is worth 34800 RP
Using Peridot as RP into artifact MH is worth 500 RP
Using Aquamarine as RP into artifact MH is worth 1500 RP
Using Lesser Resonance stone as RP into artifact MH is worth 2500 RP

2x RP weekend
Using level 15 artifact MH as RP into artifact MH is worth 34800RP
Using Peridot as RP into artifact MH is worth 1000 RP
Using Aquamarine as RP into artifact MH is worth 3000 RP
Using Lesser Resonance stone as RP into artifact MH is worth 5000 RP

mercedesman · December 2015

For me, I leveled my twisted main and off to 35 and then ate my old legendary main and off into each. This put me about 40K RP below going legendary again.

Unknown · December 2015

This content has been removed.

windquake · December 2015

Main reason for this 2x refine from weapon was "so people won't need to wait for double refine to change for their new weapons",YET you will need to wait anyway, it is true that you gonna get like 90% of your old refine points but not 100% (which is mayor problem here) If you go from orange weapon you will end with epic, or if you go from 35 epic you will end with blue, so you will be forced to spent normal resonance stones to get back what you lost ( and who would do it in other time then in double refine ? maybe just p2w users )
So even though I find this feature "usefull" it still isn't what they pointed out with " you won't need to wait for 2x refine weekend"

beckylunatic · December 2015

windquake said:
Main reason for this 2x refine from weapon was "so people won't need to wait for double refine to change for their new weapons",YET you will need to wait anyway, it is true that you gonna get like 90% of your old refine points but not 100% (which is mayor problem here) If you go from orange weapon you will end with epic, or if you go from 35 epic you will end with blue, so you will be forced to spent normal resonance stones to get back what you lost ( and who would do it in other time then in double refine ? maybe just p2w users )
So even though I find this feature "usefull" it still isn't what they pointed out with " you won't need to wait for 2x refine weekend"

I am at an in-between stage with my weapons, not orange but enough of the way through purple that putting old into new would immediately net me a new purple weapon with a couple of lost levels. Every 2xRP event, I put in each character's collected bound stones and then round it off with unbound.

Anyone with a blue weapon benefits and they may also have advanced their old one far enough that they're not losing a quality rank by refining it immediately.

The feature gives you options.

oldbaldyone · December 2015

mercedesman said:
For me, I leveled my twisted main and off to 35 and then ate my old legendary main and off into each. This put me about 40K RP below going legendary again.

I see no reason at all really to do it backwards, although people insist on it. There is no different between leveling the keeper item to 35 and then feeding it the old item, and feeding the old item into the new right away and filling in the missing RP. All the former does is provide a chance at a miscalculation and a loss of RP.

Unless I'm missing something, just feed the old to the new, fill in the missing RP, and be done with it.

asterdahl · December 2015

ribbs1 said:
That stone you are given only makes the change more confusing.

The stone was included primarily to attempt to reinforce the idea that items with this tag on them feed into other items at double the rate, and not that they receive at double the rate.

That said, the quest that grants you the tutorial stone does not unlock until you have two artifact weapons of the same slot, so a lot of people are encountering this tag before it has been tutorialized. We understand that the nature of the tag is not immediately clear and could be misinterpreted. The problem is that it is a lot of information to convey in a very small space on an already crowded tooltip. We discussed changing the tag, but as there seemed to be no silver bullet, we've left it as-is, as making any changes now could further confuse the matter or be interpreted as a change in functionality.

It's still possible that this tag will change in the future, and I would like to apologize for any inconvenience the tag may have caused in terms of expected RP gain lost. We appreciate those of you who continue to spread the word both in game and on the forums about the nature of the tag.

Unknown · December 2015

This content has been removed.

zebular · December 2015

prettycelt said:

zebular said:

As for those with unfounded claims that this is not explained in game:

"A new contact, the “Artifact Enthusiast,” has been added to the Moonstone Mask. She can answer questions regarding this special refining rule, but the short explanation again is: artifact weapons rank 15 and above, including all existing artifact weapons, will have a new tag, “Always Double Refinement.” When this tag is present, that item will always refine into artifact equipment at double the rate and will not be affected by the double refinement event."
Technically, it is explained, yes. POORLY.
asterdahl said:

We understand that the nature of the tag is not immediately clear and could be misinterpreted. The problem is that it is a lot of information to convey in a very small space on an already crowded tooltip. We discussed changing the tag, but as there seemed to be no silver bullet, we've left it as-is, as making any changes now could further confuse the matter or be interpreted as a change in functionality.

There's a fantastically simple way they could have made this immediately much, much clearer on the tooltip. Where it says:
"Any artifact weapon that has been upgraded to rank 15 or above will always refine into another piece of artifact equipment at double the rate, whether an event is running or not"

You instead just add the single word 'Only', as in:
"Any artifact weapon (ONLY) that has been upgraded to rank 15 or above will always refine into another piece of artifact equipment at double the rate, whether an event is running or not."

Problem solved. Would that have been that hard?

"Any" and "Only" would be in contradiction with each other in that usage. As well, it wouldn't be a proper sentence the way you suggest to add "(ONLY)" there and would actually be confusing. I don't see what is confusing about the tool-tip as it is. It clearly says "any artifact weapon" and notes that they have to be "upgraded to rank 15" and even further states that they "refine into another piece of artifact equipment" with no where stating anything about refining stones or the use of them into the artifact weapon bearing the tag.

In my opinion, the tool-tip is fine as it is but if it does need clarifying, perhaps instead replace "Any" with "Only" and adjust possessives to actually clarify Artifact Weapons as the topic. For example, "Only Artifact Weapons that have been..." and so on. Better yet, perhaps even reword it entirely to be more to the point; "Rank 15 or higher Artifact Weapons are always worth double Refinement Points when fed into other Artifact Equipment, regardless of any running event." Capitalizing or even bolding the three topics/references will also help in purveying clarity.

adinosii · December 2015

I just wish this was not limited to artifact weapons, but artifact equipment (belts etc) as well.

mrgiggles651 · December 2015

"Always" not actually always. They need a different term. Adding an unannounced new npc that is in a place few go (Moonstone Mask) to explain things if you choose to talk to them doesn't really make up for that.

mantera47 · December 2015

mrgiggles651 said:
...Adding an unannounced new npc that is in a place few go (Moonstone Mask) to explain things if you choose to talk to them doesn't really make up for that.

IIRC, you get a quest to go talk to the npc from Knox.

pernament double refine doesn't work ?

Comments

Pre-Underdark:

NOW: Underdark: