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Begging for Instance Invites is not Engaging Gameplay

tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
edited November 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
First off, a little credit.
  • The R.A. Salvatore Featured Quest was fun (it was also short).
  • The new skirmishes are a step in the right direction. The mechanic is more than TAB Q E R.
However, the mechanism for obtaining motes for the new weapons is beyond absurd. It's not just that there is a lot of time involved, it's that
  • There is only one way to get the motes. Why not also make them available as long-ish duration crafting tasks, bring back Karru and allow fire motes to occasionally drop from the fire giants (similar solutions for other types), and here's an idea... allow Foundry authors to craft appropriately themed foundries that drop an appropriate mote upon completion? (There are many suggestions for preventing exploitation in the foundry forum).
  • They can apparently be farmed by just standing there. Lazy players get the same benefit as players that grind their rear off. Same issue as campfire sitting in Tiamat (which is also not solved). Surely it can't be THAT hard to measure that a minimal level of engagement has been demonstrated by a toon sitting inside an HE boundary.
  • Most of all, to be efficient you have to spend game time begging for an invitation to an instance. Over and over. For 100 HE's. That is a horrible break in the suspension of disbelief. It is not engaging game play. Perhaps you need to modify the spawn times when this new content is first released, or scale it to the number of players in all instances. Perhaps it would be sufficient to add additional means to obtain the motes. Developers, just sit down and look at /zone in the fire and water mote zones. Watch for 10 minutes and ask yourself if it looks like players are having fun, or if they are frustrated.
Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
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Comments

  • andorrabellandorrabell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 437 Arc User
    Agreed. Begging to complete content is not fun. I need a well of sanity after farming this on one character.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,366 Arc User
    So far I've farmed it on three

    Agreed. Begging to complete content is not fun. I need a well of sanity after farming this on one character.

    So far I've farmed it on three, though on the latest one my patience with all the instance begging really broke. I couldn't count all of the people I had to put on my ignore list just so I could see the timer list. For myself, I don't ask for invites, I just make a quick mental list of the next three or four "best" instances to jump to next and get whichever one I can.
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  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    omg..

    kudos I guess, no way I would. Just no way. This is also the sort of silliness that just makes pvp less attractive to me. But I will put that more on , at this time in the game, I JUST cant sit around and find active instances on multiple toons to complete this mess.. I guess those who can, should be rewarded.

    I just cant.
  • drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    I have spent a few hours grinding it out by staying in the same instance then I realized, last night, that I was wrong. I collected 25 in 90 minutes by paying attention to the spawn timers... and hitting them as I saw fit. I did this solo, I did not try to lean on others to help me do that.
    I do not mind helping the occasional one off players requesting for an invite. I do feel that if I can figure it out... then others can. However, in a week or so the activity in these areas... in an effort to farm the motes... will drop.​​
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  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User


    They can apparently be farmed by just standing there. Lazy players get the same benefit as players that grind their rear off. Same issue as campfire sitting in Tiamat (which is also not solved). Surely it can't be THAT hard to measure that a minimal level of engagement has been demonstrated by a toon sitting inside an HE boundary.
    this isnt true for the earth weapon. at least half the time slaad invasion doesnt drop motes for my cleric. and thats when she's nuking. if shes healing its more like a 10% drop rate. 200k heals less contribution than 3k nukes. i guess they use the same contribution mechanism as dragonflight. tanks and healers are always on the bottom of the list. my barely 2.2 wizzy contributes more than a 3k tank, or my healadin keeping everyone alive?....
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    edited November 2015
    Here's an example of the "engaging game play". /zone chat covering about 20 seconds

    [Zone] INV FIRE PLEASE
    [Zone] DC 2.5k LFG Fire pls
    [Zone] invite for fire plz
    [Zone] inv for fire
    [Zone] Invite for FIRE please and Thank You
    [Zone] inv fire
    [Zone] inv Fire pls 99/100
    [Zone] inv fire please
    [Zone] Invite for FIRE please and Thank You
    [Zone] inv for FIRE pls
    [Zone] invite for fire plz
    [Zone] inv fire pls 14
    [Zone] inv for fire plsi
    [Zone] inv Fire pls 99/100
    [Zone] inv 14 pls
    [Zone] inv fire please
    [Zone] plis
    [Zone] inv fire pls
    [Zone] inv fire
    [Zone] invite for fire plz
    [Zone] inv fire please
    [Zone] invite me for fire please
    [Zone] Invite fire pretty please
    [Zone] inv for FIRE pls
    [Zone] inv ff pls cw 2,9 k :)
    [Zone] Invite for FIRE please and Thank You
    [Zone] inv fire plz
    [Zone] inv Fire pls 99/100
    [Zone] invt fire
    [Zone] inv fire pls
    [Zone] inv fire
    [Zone] inv fire please
    [Zone] DC 2.5k LFG Fire pls
    [Zone] Invite for FIRE please and Thank You
    [Zone] invite for fire plz
    [Zone] inv fire pls
    [Zone] inv for FIRE pls

    (Edited: Character names removed. Please do not name and shame, even if only character names and not handles. Thanks! ~Zeb)
    Post edited by zebular on
    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    I agree that begging for instance invites is not engaging game play. I don't really understand why people stand there and beg for invites. In Drowned Shore, they call out the times that the crab will be up on each given instance. Rather than sitting and begging for invite, people go to the one that has room and the least amount of time. Some people still beg, but all the begging does is fill people's ignore lists. Perhaps someone should do this same system of calling out what time which instances will have the HE up, and less people will beg for invites.
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  • snottysnotty Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 476 Arc User
    Sorry to say but I think most of (but not all) the beggers are just really lazy or greedy. The lazy ones are the ones that don't wanna be bothered trying to keep the timers in mind and switch fast to the next instance like the rest of us do. The greedy ones are the ones that figure by begging someone will invite them to the next instance where the crab will be up in a minute or two.

    And of course there are some people begging because they don't understand how the timers work.
  • melodicahmelodicah Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    I was questing out there and happened upon one of the encounters, so I helped out. I noticed someone in chat griping because nobody would take the time to invite them. I was torn between thinking they were right and they were lazy since I noticed the people posting the timers. I've seen people spam invites for dragons in zones when the map isn't even full yet and they could just switch to the instance. People are definitely lazy.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    ok.. so many misconceptions here..

    Point A. If a instance is full, there is no other way to get in, what if you dont have the entire rotation down?

    Take Point B. today is crazy.. EVERY instance is full in nano seconds.. EVERY one, you can barely get 4-5 ahead in the rotation at all , thats a 10-15 min wait easily if not more.

    Sure.. when ITS not that busy you can get the rotation down and jump it, but thats NOT all the time.

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    Post edited by zebular on
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    People ask for those invites for a simple reason ... they want to PLAY the game, not sit around and WAIT to play the game whenever the HE comes up in the next open instance. It's not the players fault for wanting to play ... this disaster of a quest is the developer's fault for requiring 100 motes from heroic encounters and then making it so only ONE heroic encounter in each zone reliably dropped the mote.
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  • zibadawazibadawa Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I agree that begging for instance invites is not engaging game play. I don't really understand why people stand there and beg for invites. In Drowned Shore, they call out the times that the crab will be up on each given instance. Rather than sitting and begging for invite, people go to the one that has room and the least amount of time. Some people still beg, but all the begging does is fill people's ignore lists. Perhaps someone should do this same system of calling out what time which instances will have the HE up, and less people will beg for invites.

    At certain times of day, begging is the only recourse because every single zone is filled to the normal maximum at all times. I want to get the fire weapons for my DC, but every time I go there it's 12 instances at at least 10 of them are maxed out. Also it's a LOT easier to assure you can get into the next zone in the sequence in time if you've effectively got 4 other people trying on your behalf (aka: being in a party makes it a lot easier).

  • tantrumusmaximustantrumusmaximus Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    +1000 on Begging is the lamest form of progression.

    X player says "GO GO 12 Everyone GO 12"

    Yet 12 is not available, send advertising player an invite request.... Never an invite (maybe 1 out of 10 tries someone invites.)

    Ask for invite and nobody invites.... Why even advertise if nobody can get to your instance because you WONT INVITE???

    SAD.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    depends on who is there.. this is what i usually do when I was farming (especially on the later half.)

    4 is UP, 4 is UP.. INVITE YOURSELF to me if you want in(i wont invite)

    I would then accept the 3-4 people who actually understood that if they invite to me, they would get into the instance.. they got in, I disbanded party and I would do it all over again.

    There were times when I could jump the instances enough that it would work and other times when it wouldn't.

    If it was REALLY busy I had no recourse but to ask for invites, sometimes I would get in, sometimes I wouldn't. Better to give yourself a 40-50% shot at another instance, then just sitting around doing nothing for ten more mins..

    Im sorry you dont like the spam.. it wasnt the players who thought of this system.. it was the devs.

    We do what we have to do to progress, no matter the HAMSTER they throw at us.


  • urlord283urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    I agree...
    one source is nuts
    We should be able to get them like the Pinwheel looking things
    Make them or have a random chance in content

    Deves

    Please consider this
  • szejhuludpuchaczszejhuludpuchacz Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    I have grinded my fiery set. That was long and painful. Now, thanks to patch, I will get same slow and boring grinding in drowned shore. Blame myself I wasn't farm DS 1st.
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  • crizpynutzcrizpynutz Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    People ask for those invites for a simple reason ... they want to PLAY the game, not sit around and WAIT to play the game whenever the HE comes up in the next open instance. It's not the players fault for wanting to play ... this disaster of a quest is the developer's fault for requiring 100 motes from heroic encounters and then making it so only ONE heroic encounter in each zone reliably dropped the mote.

    Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. This was Mod8 - Underdark. A new campaign. Not little patch update. I really enjoyed the RA Salvatore written story line and wish there was more of it. In fact, instead of making people stand in place farming the same HE 100 times for a new weapon set begging to jump instances, why not add more to the plotline with increasing difficulty? Maybe have us farm the HE 25 times instead of 100 and do some other stuff instead. Everyone has their own opinions but IMO, the mote farm of a single HE was not nearly the best option and forgive me for this, but it feels very lazy and lacking creativity.
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I agree that begging for instance invites is not engaging game play. I don't really understand why people stand there and beg for invites. In Drowned Shore, they call out the times that the crab will be up on each given instance. Rather than sitting and begging for invite, people go to the one that has room and the least amount of time. Some people still beg, but all the begging does is fill people's ignore lists. Perhaps someone should do this same system of calling out what time which instances will have the HE up, and less people will beg for invites.

    Remember that you you cannot instance hop by yourself if there are 20 ppl in that instance but you can still be invited and then switch to said instance before it maxxes out.
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  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    lirithiel said:

    Remember that you you cannot instance hop by yourself if there are 20 ppl in that instance but you can still be invited and then switch to said instance before it maxxes out.

    That is exactly it. 50% more people can earn motes by using the invite system.

    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • feralplatypusferalplatypus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 36 Arc User
    I was really glad with many of the recent changes in the game but this mots farming is an absolute horror.

    I got to 61 farming crabs for my pally's new weapons. I couldn't stand farming for the fire one on my cw. Now with the spawn time for the crabs changed both are unbearably boring.

    I don't mind taking a long time to reach the goal. Took me a very long time to get the last Tiamat boon and that was ok. Why? Because I could do other things in the meantime. I didn't have to sit for an hour at the Tiamat's temple door waiting for it to open.

    But here, if I want to get those mots, I'm stuck. I have to sit on this one map and wait for the encounter to spawn. I can't switch to a different character because I will respawn in a different instance. I can't go to a different map and do other stuff there for the same reason. So it's just this - sitting and waiting for 25 minutes with absolutely nothing to do.

    Seriously, this is the most boring thing the devs have come up with yet.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    I dont know.. waiting for dragons to pop in mod 4.. wasnt exactly the highlight of my day.
  • jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User
    the worst is waiting and instant changing and out of 10 HEs getting 7 motes
  • zibadawazibadawa Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User

    I was really glad with many of the recent changes in the game but this mots farming is an absolute horror.

    I got to 61 farming crabs for my pally's new weapons. I couldn't stand farming for the fire one on my cw. Now with the spawn time for the crabs changed both are unbearably boring.

    I don't mind taking a long time to reach the goal. Took me a very long time to get the last Tiamat boon and that was ok. Why? Because I could do other things in the meantime. I didn't have to sit for an hour at the Tiamat's temple door waiting for it to open.

    But here, if I want to get those mots, I'm stuck. I have to sit on this one map and wait for the encounter to spawn. I can't switch to a different character because I will respawn in a different instance. I can't go to a different map and do other stuff there for the same reason. So it's just this - sitting and waiting for 25 minutes with absolutely nothing to do.

    Seriously, this is the most boring thing the devs have come up with yet.

    You can do the vigilance quests. You get more xp per quest than any campaign quest (only the demonic HE's are better than spinward rise quests), and you can get some profession resources, including on occasion elemental aggregates or unified elements.
  • feralplatypusferalplatypus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 36 Arc User
    I've done all vigilance quests multiple times as I was leveling my characters so no, thank you. And getting profession resources is not a terribly exciting prospect either.
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator

    I dont know.. waiting for dragons to pop in mod 4.. wasnt exactly the highlight of my day.

    At least then, you could form your own party and to run the dungeon when you were ready to do so.
    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • rangeldino#8818 rangeldino Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Well, the rotation and those stuff definitly makes the farming much easier, and if I am honestly, I never saw the asking for an invite as begging... Cause if someone invites me to the instance, he has an advantage, too, cause with my help the crab goes easier / faster down, cause I can spot the crab, go on the other side of it, so I get the damage and not the DDs on the other side (also they make a bit more damage)... And if someone dies I can revive (if he´s nearby me, don´t want to pull the crab directly on the group), and my healer can also heal other players. So, more safety for all. I mean, sometimes the instances are full but not because of farmers but with other players, 20 people on the instance, but just 4 at the crab... And with 4 players you have to fight the crab with strategy, definitly.

    I needed around 9hrs for farming the water weapons. Sometimes I made the little HE´s, cause I was curious for them, and happy if I got a mote therefrom... What a nice time. Now I farm the earth weapons, cause the buff on them is better for a tank that doesn´t move much, the water weapons I farmed, well, cause I´m a little collector ^^ But farming earth weapons is way harder, cause there are not so many people farming them. Full instances are not often a problem, in most cases there are just two or tree instances at all... The Slaad HE (that´s the one with 100% droprate for earth weapons) is not possible to solo for me, even if I get with tactical fighting the portals and the normal slaads down, but the boss is simply to strong to solo... And the time runs out, too. Maybe if I would have 4k, but with 2,5k... no chance. So I have to farm the little HE´s for 5 or for 10 ppl, often solo, always happy if someone helps me, even if he doesn´t make watchable damage or if I have to revive him, but it´s at least a little variety... Those little HE´s have a droprate of 25%, what means that I have to do 400 of them. I´m now at 73/100 motes, I´m happy for any variety, even if I would fail a HE cause I had to revive someone I wouldn´t be angry... I farmed around 10 days till now, everyday around 3-5hrs. A little difference to the two days I needed for water weapons.

    And if I have the earth weapons and overcome the psychical damage of 400 HE´s, I may will farm fire and air weapons too, for my collection of madness. And I can guarantee you, if there are enough farmers to fill the instances, I will "beg" there for invite. And if I am in an instance where the action is, I will ask if someone needs an invite, too. It has nothing to do with proudness or good gameplay to farm those motes solo. Soloing an HE once is a sign of good gameplay (well, ok, its not so hard if you are over 2k), but soloing it 100 times is a sign of frustration. Life is to short for that.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    I don't see a reason to beg. Just keep track of the timers and jump with the crowd from instance to instance. You can get the whole thing done in 8 hours.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • zibadawazibadawa Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I don't see a reason to beg. Just keep track of the timers and jump with the crowd from instance to instance. You can get the whole thing done in 8 hours.

    Read the thread.

    If there's a decent number of people actually doing the instances, which is pretty much guaranteed if someone is keeping track of timers, then instances will fill up in a number of seconds. You might never be part of the crowd; and even if you are a part of it, it's entirely plausible that at some point you will fail to transfer in time and will lose that crowd. Your only recourse is to beg for an invite in this case. Every time I've gone looking to get the fire set for a character, there have only ever been one of two situations to find: it's a dead zone and no one is doing any HE's at all; or, every instance is at or near max and it's impossible to get into anything without begging.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,820 Arc User
    This is a 4 month old thread. The one who brought this back to life has only 1 post.
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