Votekick abuse

dsn1118 · October 2015

As most of you know you cant kick people from dungeons even if there is a purple lockbox drop on the ground.Some people started to abuse this system.

Yesterday I was running etos with 2 friends and their guildmates.Suddenly I got DCed and found myself kicked out of the dungeon group(this is one other bug).Anyway I pm' d one of my friends who is still inside the dungeon and I asked if autoqueue get another tank for them.They said "Autoqueue found one but wait lets ask him nicely maybe he will leave".What do you think other tanks answer might be.1)Sure no problem(very unlikely but there are still some decent people) 2)Sorry but I really need this dungeons chest so I wont leave(more probable option)

Answer was:
"Give me 20 gold and I will leave".

Unfortunatley my friends paid the gold and dude left the group before I can remind my friends to take his name.This is resolved rather quickly.He might ask something more absurd or just got DCed so they cant kick him out of the group to leave them only option to leave dungeon and start from scrap.

Please take care of this "You cant kick people while there is a loot on the ground rule".

bioshrike · October 2015

They need to implement a system whereby the game will hold your spot for a bit longer, if you get DC'd.

ahrukin · October 2015

why not just pick up the drops then kick???
otherwise whenever a good drop comes up the main group can kick pugs and keep drops for them self. this is much worse than your situation.

dufisto · October 2015

ahrukin said:
why not just pick up the drops then kick???
otherwise whenever a good drop comes up the main group can kick pugs and keep drops for them self. this is much worse than your situation.

simple. some drops are for that player only. and if its on the ground you cant ever kick them.
now try kickin an afker. game simply wont let you.

ahrukin · October 2015

really? so if i am in a pt and i have a drop just for me, if i dont pick it up i can never be kicked from the party? anyone test this for confirmation ?

inyawayupdeep · October 2015

Pretty sure it's correct have done several ToS runs where someone disconnect right at the start and you can't boot them, usually have to finish without them.

jaotut · October 2015

You don't even need to be in a dungeon for this to happen, if someone disconnects in a party, you can't kick them most of the time because you can't even find that high value green item it's talking about.

dufisto · October 2015

jaotut said:
You don't even need to be in a dungeon for this to happen, if someone disconnects in a party, you can't kick them most of the time because you can't even find that high value green item it's talking about.

at least in an open world party you can reform the group. cant do that in a dungeon without restarting

zibadawa · October 2015

Yeah, party kick system is whack.

Cryptic: "Oh noes, peoples is being jerks with kicks! Let's overreact and basically make it impossible to kick anyone!"

Players: "You dips, now it's 10 times worse in the other direction."

Cryptic: "*6 months of crickets* We're busy with the next mod, so we'll maybe think about having a guy analyze the worthiness of analyzing that for the possibility of being investigated sometime later."

mentinmindmaker · October 2015

The votekick system was badly abused before they made these changes. So overall I would say the current state is an improvement.

It could need some additional adjustments though:
* Items on ground belonging to the missing player only should not block a votekick
* And you shold be autokicked if you are gone for more than 10 minutes

snotty · October 2015

all they'd really have to do the fix the issue is just make the drop table to only include rare or above items.

But on the other hand I do like the new system for the most part because I've seen the kick system abused too much over the years. So when the children cant play well with each the parents have to step in and rarely are the children happy with the results.

We only have ourselves to blame.

jaotut · October 2015

How was the previous vote kick system abused?

I thought it'd be the most logical if there's 3 votes in the party to kick someone, then it's pretty clear that person being voted is not wanted by the party.

suicidalgodot · October 2015

jaotut said:
How was the previous vote kick system abused?

I thought it'd be the most logical if there's 3 votes in the party to kick someone, then it's pretty clear that person being voted is not wanted by the party.

...from your cocky presentation I'd have thought you old enough (in this game) to remember:

- Boss dead - votekick, so the loot roll chances are better. Best played with a group of three, grabbing two poor sods to do the messy work.
- Also GS votekicking at run launch until you get your guy .
- or even worse: Votekicking until you get the uber who pulls you through...

There's more.

goldmoon · October 2015

Before in mod 5, there is always 1~2 aholes roll need in gg lair fast runs

I dont see much problem in vote kicking

dsn1118 · October 2015

Yeah new system is nice.But they have to remove no kicking when there is a drop on the ground rule.Boss drops are player specific now so no more kicking people for rolling.Not be able to kick people while there is a drop on the ground is absurd at best.We cant kick people who got DCed,we cant kick people who doesnt keep up with party.I liked making PUG runs before.This problems pushed people away from joining PUG runs to help low item level starter players

dsn1118 · October 2015

Also I just remembered one other guy I encountered in Shores of Tuern.Dude just followed us from behind spammed Trs atwill which throw daggers until we reached endboss and stood at the entrance died with first attack.Yeah votekick has been abused but it was also a tool to make freeloaders to behave

suicidalgodot · October 2015

...yeah.

I don't like the current system either. But excessive abuse IS what brought that upon us...

jaotut · October 2015

Well now the boss drops are all individual loots. You can't see what other people can pick up, so there's no advantage to kick someone to increase your chance at getting nothing.

regenerde · October 2015

Simple change, if you go into a dungeon/skirmish with your own full group, you can kick/invite/reinvite any player.
If someone is kicked or gets a disconnected, no automated replacement is coming from the regular queue.

mahburg · October 2015

All you have to do is wait 15 minutes then the loot disappears then you can kick, its a pain waiting that long five minutes should be enough, but that's what we have had to do when someone dc's and fails to return

urlord283 · October 2015

I get DCed more than you would expect... I don't think it is wrong if the kicks me afterward.

I think folks kick much less than before

silverkelt · October 2015

DCs should be handled totally different, 60 seconds after d/c you should be able to kick them, no matter what.

suicidalgodot · October 2015

silverkelt said:
DCs should be handled totally different, 60 seconds after d/c you should be able to kick them, no matter what.

...regarding that reconnecting takes like 3 minutes (if it is a game client crash, I'd consider this too short...

snotty · October 2015

jaotut said:
Well now the boss drops are all individual loots. You can't see what other people can pick up, so there's no advantage to kick someone to increase your chance at getting nothing.

vote kicking still gets abused though not as much.

One good example of this is an ELOL run I did once, the DC we started with proceeded to kick someone every time the team wiped. No joke, I think he kicked about a dozen people by the time we got to the end. And then after a few wipes on the dragon I got kicked even though I was always the last man standing. Ironically I managed to get back into the team through que and after a few more wipes someone (not me) voted for him to be kicked and after he got replaced we beat the dragon no problem.

Which of course begs the question, was he the problem all along?

Also, just today I did a ECC run and after killing the first boss the DC got vote kicked because he was, and I quote "useless".
Now from what I could see he was there fighting and picking up anyone that fell. Cant remember if he was throwing heals or not because I was too busy dodging red spots but even if he wasn't it shouldn't have mattered since we 4 manned the rest of the dungeon with no wipes.

So in my opinion it was an unnecessary kick.

I do think anyone that DCs should be able to be kicked after 5 mins but here does need to be some sort of buffer to allow the person that DCed to have a chance to get back in. I've seen people get kicked like as soon as they DC which is just flat out ignorant.

krymkac · October 2015

New vote kicking system is a joke. The only things you can roll on are r5s or green HAMSTER... Do they really think some one would kick ppl over it?! Btw you can still kick most of the time.. just need to get out of the instance. GM help ftw. Ppl been asking for changes when we still had a decent loot in dungeons/skirmishes. Shows how much devs know about the game/play it. I so do wish they make auto-rolls system so we wont have to spam shift+3 every time another "but... but.. i need to refine my gear so i pick up every single green item" optimist appears. I am ok with 5-7 min timer for dced/newly arrived person but they need to fix the queue first. To respect the roles. You still can enter without a full group, still can get a dps instead of a tank/healer or get full dps party at the start. With that in mind its kinda dump to lock the queue after a certain amount of kicks/deserters.

sobac · October 2015

snotty said:
all they'd really have to do the fix the issue is just make the drop table to only include rare or above items.

System can't distinguish between a green unidentified item or a peridot, so this rule, unless customized, it's ok IMO. And you can kick a dc'ed person after 5 min, more than enough to restart the game in case of crash.

I see quite worse Q system in general. Imagine 2 CWs, 2 TRs, and HR. And unless you are 3k, some dng/skirmishes require at least tank or healer. So when one of the, lets say, TRs leave, party in most cases will get ANOTHER TR!! C'mon

And I, personally, don't like to see two red X at the beginning of the dng/skir and start playing with 3 members

Would rather prefer as it was before, message with "not enough players" and you are in Q again, so you can finish some other stuff you can solo.

zibadawa · October 2015

sobac said:

System can't distinguish between a green unidentified item or a peridot, so this rule, unless customized, it's ok IMO. And you can kick a dc'ed person after 5 min, more than enough to restart the game in case of crash.

I see quite worse Q system in general. Imagine 2 CWs, 2 TRs, and HR. And unless you are 3k, some dng/skirmishes require at least tank or healer. So when one of the, lets say, TRs leave, party in most cases will get ANOTHER TR!! C'mon And I, personally, don't like to see two red X at the beginning of the dng/skir and start playing with 3 members Would rather prefer as it was before, message with "not enough players" and you are in Q again, so you can finish some other stuff you can solo.

Many times have I been loaded up into eLoL with three people, or 5 strikers. It's insulting, really.

asterotg · October 2015

mentinmindmaker said:
The votekick system was badly abused before they made these changes. So overall I would say the current state is an improvement.

It could need some additional adjustments though:
* Items on ground belonging to the missing player only should not block a votekick
* And you shold be autokicked if you are gone for more than 10 minutes

10 minutes, really? A decent group can clear most dungeons in that time. The new system is better, how? I remember getting kicked 10-20 times before the changes. I kicked hundreds of players. 'Oh, a good example for a vote kick abuser!', no. I did CN and DK farmruns. Before votekick I did form GREEDRUN groups. For those a little bit dense I repeated in the dungeons 'greedrun, so dont roll need on epic gear or I will kick you'. I did have to kick at last 2 or 3 players a week.

Now we have personal loot, so a loot kick is out of the question, but to prevent the loot kick, they made tis changes AFTER it became obsolete leaving us with abusers, DCed players and no option to kick bad apples.

Before these changes there was the need to behave somehow decent and dont run your mouth like a gutter child or there was the possibility, that you get kicked. Now you can vent your personal anger, rant, insult and abuse to your delight, bc no one can do anything. 'Write a ticket', you say. The answer, if you get one is, put him on ignore.

Que for a dungeon, change character, que with the next char, relog wth the first, help kill the boss, relog with the second and kll the boss. Two dungeons in the time of one, same goes for skirmishes.

Before they implemented personal loot this system was idiotic, now it is obsolete and does help grievers and abusers.

mahburg said:
All you have to do is wait 15 minutes then the loot disappears then you can kick, its a pain waiting that long five minutes should be enough, but that's what we have had to do when someone dc's and fails to return

As I said before, you can complete most dungeons in less then 15 minutes with a decent group.

mentinmindmaker · October 2015

I just wanted to remind people one thing:
Do not autoclick yes on a kick vote. If the kick is badly argued, or you do not fully agree, or it comes in a busy situation, click NO.

Reason why votekick is/was a problem is people monkey clicking on yes. Make NO your default votekick click. That would solve a lot of problems.

mahburg · October 2015

asterotg said:

mentinmindmaker said:
The votekick system was badly abused before they made these changes. So overall I would say the current state is an improvement.

It could need some additional adjustments though:
* Items on ground belonging to the missing player only should not block a votekick
* And you shold be autokicked if you are gone for more than 10 minutes
10 minutes, really? A decent group can clear most dungeons in that time. The new system is better, how? I remember getting kicked 10-20 times before the changes. I kicked hundreds of players. 'Oh, a good example for a vote kick abuser!', no. I did CN and DK farmruns. Before votekick I did form GREEDRUN groups. For those a little bit dense I repeated in the dungeons 'greedrun, so dont roll need on epic gear or I will kick you'. I did have to kick at last 2 or 3 players a week.

Now we have personal loot, so a loot kick is out of the question, but to prevent the loot kick, they made tis changes AFTER it became obsolete leaving us with abusers, DCed players and no option to kick bad apples.

Before these changes there was the need to behave somehow decent and dont run your mouth like a gutter child or there was the possibility, that you get kicked. Now you can vent your personal anger, rant, insult and abuse to your delight, bc no one can do anything. 'Write a ticket', you say. The answer, if you get one is, put him on ignore.

Que for a dungeon, change character, que with the next char, relog wth the first, help kill the boss, relog with the second and kll the boss. Two dungeons in the time of one, same goes for skirmishes.

Before they implemented personal loot this system was idiotic, now it is obsolete and does help grievers and abusers.
mahburg said:
All you have to do is wait 15 minutes then the loot disappears then you can kick, its a pain waiting that long five minutes should be enough, but that's what we have had to do when someone dc's and fails to return
As I said before, you can complete most dungeons in less then 15 minutes with a decent group.

I concur but I was trying to help those who were stuck with the current reality not the world we may never get to see which you (and I) would prefer

silverkelt · October 2015

there was no reason to change the rules.. but regardless. darnt I miss old dk, pk runs.. Easy, fast , rewarding.. use rewards to upgrade your toons. What a concept.. hint , hint, wink, wink.

Votekick abuse

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