There is one thing i wish they fix on the guardian fighter though. is that Delay glitch between Guarding and attacking. It is never instant like the other classes.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Great men are almost always bad men." “If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
There is one thing i wish they fix on the guardian fighter though. is that Delay glitch between Guarding and attacking. It is never instant like the other classes.
yeah that is extremely annoying, that(and that tanks were completely useless for solo content) made me drop my GF
One of the main reasons GF is soo strong in 1v1 PvP is due to target lock. that being said. They also can deal 1-rotation kills with the insane amounts of damage they can put out. The problem isnt GF's being weak. its paladins being too immortal.
plz buff them some. they are super squishy unless u block with shield.
tbh the paladin is MORE tanky than the GF and they dont need the shield block. y is this so?
1. CAN paladin use heroism and at the same time to give to his pt very much damage resistance ? no. GF can do it with villaine menace and knight valor. 2. CAN bane and aura of courage and aura of wisdom can be superior to into the fray tide of iron and tab mark ? no. Into the fray is buff for all monsters you and your pt will deal if rank 4 100% of dr as increased buff + actions points gain + speed + a small portion of temp hp. Bane maybe has 3 stacks but is limited to give its full potential to cast it to one monster all the stacks. Tide of iron AND TAB mark also reduce damage resistance. TAB mark also give combat advantage to the pt. 3. I want to do the run as fast i can. FOR this job i will never prefer a paladin over a gf because the facts i wrote above. 4. When i am playing my paladin protection i use shield of faith. I give you guys 50% damage reduction and 20% more healing for 20 seconds. that is more legit than the lie divine protector.
plz buff them some. they are super squishy unless u block with shield.
tbh the paladin is MORE tanky than the GF and they dont need the shield block. y is this so?
1. CAN paladin use heroism and at the same time to give to his pt very much damage resistance ? no. GF can do it with villaine menace and knight valor. 2. CAN bane and aura of courage and aura of wisdom can be superior to into the fray tide of iron and tab mark ? no. Into the fray is buff for all monsters you and your pt will deal if rank 4 100% of dr as increased buff + actions points gain + speed + a small portion of temp hp. Bane maybe has 3 stacks but is limited to give its full potential to cast it to one monster all the stacks. Tide of iron AND TAB mark also reduce damage resistance. TAB mark also give combat advantage to the pt. 3. I want to do the run as fast i can. FOR this job i will never prefer a paladin over a gf because the facts i wrote above. 4. When i am playing my paladin protection i use shield of faith. I give you guys 50% damage reduction and 20% more healing for 20 seconds. that is more legit than the lie divine protector.
Pretty much this. Dont act as every single aspect of OP was godlike. Strip him of DP and except of some personal tankiness he is inferior to GF. Now touch Binding Oath/Templars wrath and you have a tank that is inferior in any aspect. OP is broken as it is, mainly because of DP + maybe DC AP feat if you dont have enough AP gain to maintain it by yourself, but he has some issues as well, which are, however, overshadowed by DP being broken beyond reason. I agree OP needs nerfs, but my main fear is that it will be nerfed into SW / pre-mod 5 TR levels because they will weaken things that dont need weakening. For example OP is pretty bad at protecting his teamates without a daily - run with not-overgeared OP (possibly Bulwark) and without Virtuous DC (seriously, the AP feat is another thing that needs to be looked into), or just ask your OP not to use any daily and you will see what I mean - poor aggro managment and no defensive buffs for party, or poor ones if you sacrifice your main damage utilities - Aura of Courage/Wisdom - yes, OP itself will still not die, but his party members will fall much more often, than with a GF.
plz buff them some. they are super squishy unless u block with shield.
tbh the paladin is MORE tanky than the GF and they dont need the shield block. y is this so?
1. CAN paladin use heroism and at the same time to give to his pt very much damage resistance ? no. GF can do it with villaine menace and knight valor. 2. CAN bane and aura of courage and aura of wisdom can be superior to into the fray tide of iron and tab mark ? no. Into the fray is buff for all monsters you and your pt will deal if rank 4 100% of dr as increased buff + actions points gain + speed + a small portion of temp hp. Bane maybe has 3 stacks but is limited to give its full potential to cast it to one monster all the stacks. Tide of iron AND TAB mark also reduce damage resistance. TAB mark also give combat advantage to the pt. 3. I want to do the run as fast i can. FOR this job i will never prefer a paladin over a gf because the facts i wrote above. 4. When i am playing my paladin protection i use shield of faith. I give you guys 50% damage reduction and 20% more healing for 20 seconds. that is more legit than the lie divine protector.
so we're clear: my gear is all radiants in defensive and all silvery in offensive. and im nowhere close to bis. 2.7k il. justice build ( top line only). im a massive ball of hp, that can fire off encounters nearly constantly. i have no +ap artis ( except the cleric sigil which is my panic button. i dont have the + ap stat on my shield. i dont have +ap on my jewlery ( yet). and mostly im in rank 8's with no legendary or mythic. i do have a snail (which is stupidly overpowered) and my flame sprite is green.
1. if there is a ap cleric in the group absolutely. im already permabubble+ without any external ap. so the ap cleric is enough to get me heroism too. if you built for ap generation you could do shield and heroism if thats what you wanted. if i were rolling in r12's and my choice of mythics i could probably keep both up without external ap. 2. noone is arguing that gf's dont have good buffs. but aura of courage is 10-20% dmg increase to the party according to my parses, varies based on party makeup, trs and gwfs benenfit more than sw/cw, probably because they're closer so always getting the buff. hard to quantify a 25% increase in encounter cooldowns. mostly i keep it so my bubbles are faster. for 100% dmg immunity to everyone who isnt me ( i only get 80%). as for bane. well i only ever use it on bosses. which is really the only time the group needs the buff. most trash dies so fast its not worth debuffing. 3. run to 1st obstacle. pop bubble. everyone nukes. rinse repeat till at boss. not sure how you're doing that any faster than a pali. 4. you're welcome to use whatever dailies you want. but to ignore that permabubble trumps everything a gf could ever do is just burying your head in the sand. if im not gunna perma bubble i might as well just nuke. which i can fire off judgement every 10-15 seconds for the pittance that it does. 5. if you're not blocking and not using bubble you're making your healers life harder. dont want to use bubble. fine. but block. use bubble. do whatever the heck ya want.
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aimeesellersMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 342Arc User
The GF is just fine.... it is not "squishy". The shield is meant to be used, and is how the class is built. The Paladin, is obscenely overpowered. When a heal spec'd OP can out damage well geared TR's and CW's... when a Tank spec'd OP can make the whole party invulnerable... there is something horribly wrong.
The paladin is an "Easy Mode" tank. It doesnt take near the skill or gear to out tank a GF with one. And in PvP? They are just absurd.
You will find most of the players that are saying the OP is "just fine" have spent a good deal of AD gearing them up, and are happy with the "autopilot" auras and ubermode dailys they have that make playing one easy.
There is no need for buff, if GF class is based on shield, devs just need to fix the shield using. I think is big mistake that they let using the guild marks for stamina drain, every class is toasted, expecially the GF. Fix stamina recovering for at-will (5% is too low), shield also must have a stat for damage resistance without losing stamina. And the problem is solved.
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johnjohniiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 108Arc User
gf's need a boost. i don't know how this is even a discussion...
GF needs some defense buff? no.. not really, and its base damage was overbuffed in mod 5. What u really have to say is Paladins need some defense nerf.
You think they must have skipped this accidentally but no they don't...
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
GF is mostly fine as it is. It's the OP who's completely broken and throws the game out of balance.
I will admit to one thing. The GF's primary means of defense, guard, depends heavily on stamina/guard regen. This hurts new GFs dramatically who don't have all those artifact stats and the off-hand shield talent bonus.
It's the OP who's completely broken and throws the game out of balance.
Yes, because OP has shield. Devs must remove the shield from OP, and the class is fixed. Only one class should have shield, the GF, there can be only one. And I think that is very good idea to input stat on shield for damage resistance without losing stamina.
Playing GF, and already at 16k def. But I've been running T2 with 9k def + AC totalling 41% resistance at the time. GF is hard to play which is how I believe tanks should be. I just use a AP build up feats and stats to spam fighters recovery as often as possible and just try to manage mobs. Real Issue for me is OP being too overpowered. Most OP players even agree that OP needs to be nerfed. If the best players of a certain class is asking for their own class to be nerfed, you know that class needs to be nerfed. We really need to nerf OP because players are starting to think that NW is easy as pie game, and we really need to curb this culture quickly.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
It's the OP who's completely broken and throws the game out of balance.
Yes, because OP has shield. Devs must remove the shield from OP, and the class is fixed. Only one class should have shield, the GF, there can be only one. And I think that is very good idea to input stat on shield for damage resistance without losing stamina.
OP has shift, but.... do they actually use it to absorb damage....? I never seen any do so.
It's the OP who's completely broken and throws the game out of balance.
Yes, because OP has shield. Devs must remove the shield from OP, and the class is fixed. Only one class should have shield, the GF, there can be only one. And I think that is very good idea to input stat on shield for damage resistance without losing stamina.
OP has shift, but.... do they actually use it to absorb damage....? I never seen any do so.
I only see being used for healing. So I guess he's right that they don' t need shield lol.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
OP has shift, but.... do they actually use it to absorb damage....? I never seen any do so.
Shield has 8 AC, that is 5% damage reduction without diminishing returns, and 1.2k additional defense.
I was just joking, since you don't see Pally's actually holding up a shield for blocking maybe then can have something else that adds the same stats.
Paladin healers will use their shift mechanic to do a quick burst of healing or resist CC on occasions, can't rebalance everything around half the class.
OP has shift, but.... do they actually use it to absorb damage....? I never seen any do so.
Shield has 8 AC, that is 5% damage reduction without diminishing returns, and 1.2k additional defense.
I was just joking, since you don't see Pally's actually holding up a shield for blocking maybe then can have something else that adds the same stats.
Paladin healers will use their shift mechanic to do a quick burst of healing or resist CC on occasions, can't rebalance everything around half the class.
That was actually my point. Having that shield there for the animation is kinda funny since it's rarely used for blocking. Maybe they can add a crucifix, or another off hand for the animation. Still does exactly the same thing as a shield would do for pally, just an animation that makes sense.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
OP has shift, but.... do they actually use it to absorb damage....? I never seen any do so.
Shield has 8 AC, that is 5% damage reduction without diminishing returns, and 1.2k additional defense.
I was just joking, since you don't see Pally's actually holding up a shield for blocking maybe then can have something else that adds the same stats.
Paladin healers will use their shift mechanic to do a quick burst of healing or resist CC on occasions, can't rebalance everything around half the class.
That was actually my point. Having that shield there for the animation is kinda funny since it's rarely used for blocking. Maybe they can add a crucifix, or another off hand for the animation. Still does exactly the same thing as a shield would do for pally, just an animation that makes sense.
there are very few times that require my tankadin to block. ( mostly in egwd boss fight or when traven goes on his little rampage when you touch the keg) but i do it occasionally. its more useful for the CC immunity than the dmg reduction.
Comments
There is one thing i wish they fix on the guardian fighter though.
is that Delay glitch between Guarding and attacking. It is
never instant like the other classes.
"Great men are almost always bad men."
“If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
GF can do it with villaine menace and knight valor.
2. CAN bane and aura of courage and aura of wisdom can be superior to into the fray tide of iron and tab mark ? no. Into the fray is buff for all monsters you and your pt will deal if rank 4 100% of dr as increased buff + actions points gain + speed + a small portion of temp hp. Bane maybe has 3 stacks but is limited to give its full potential to cast it to one monster all the stacks. Tide of iron AND TAB mark also reduce damage resistance. TAB mark also give combat advantage to the pt.
3. I want to do the run as fast i can. FOR this job i will never prefer a paladin over a gf because the facts i wrote above.
4. When i am playing my paladin protection i use shield of faith. I give you guys 50% damage reduction and 20% more healing for 20 seconds. that is more legit than the lie divine protector.
1. if there is a ap cleric in the group absolutely. im already permabubble+ without any external ap. so the ap cleric is enough to get me heroism too. if you built for ap generation you could do shield and heroism if thats what you wanted. if i were rolling in r12's and my choice of mythics i could probably keep both up without external ap.
2. noone is arguing that gf's dont have good buffs. but aura of courage is 10-20% dmg increase to the party according to my parses, varies based on party makeup, trs and gwfs benenfit more than sw/cw, probably because they're closer so always getting the buff. hard to quantify a 25% increase in encounter cooldowns. mostly i keep it so my bubbles are faster. for 100% dmg immunity to everyone who isnt me ( i only get 80%). as for bane. well i only ever use it on bosses. which is really the only time the group needs the buff. most trash dies so fast its not worth debuffing.
3. run to 1st obstacle. pop bubble. everyone nukes. rinse repeat till at boss. not sure how you're doing that any faster than a pali.
4. you're welcome to use whatever dailies you want. but to ignore that permabubble trumps everything a gf could ever do is just burying your head in the sand. if im not gunna perma bubble i might as well just nuke. which i can fire off judgement every 10-15 seconds for the pittance that it does.
5. if you're not blocking and not using bubble you're making your healers life harder. dont want to use bubble. fine. but block. use bubble. do whatever the heck ya want.
The paladin is an "Easy Mode" tank. It doesnt take near the skill or gear to out tank a GF with one. And in PvP? They are just absurd.
You will find most of the players that are saying the OP is "just fine" have spent a good deal of AD gearing them up, and are happy with the "autopilot" auras and ubermode dailys they have that make playing one easy.
No... the GF is fine. Nerf the OP.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Invulnerability = tanky.
at best combat should be reworked everybody has cc break and after cc break, you will get few seconds cc imunity
I will admit to one thing. The GF's primary means of defense, guard, depends heavily on stamina/guard regen. This hurts new GFs dramatically who don't have all those artifact stats and the off-hand shield talent bonus.
Shield has 8 AC, that is 5% damage reduction without diminishing returns, and 1.2k additional defense.
but i do it occasionally. its more useful for the CC immunity than the dmg reduction.