ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Well, to that point...over the weekend our guild missed a three kill on the dragons by 2%, so I'm one of those guys who leans towards the "every bit counts".
But to answer the question, yes it will. The monster will take an additional 2% of damage from all sources for 4 seconds (I think that's how long the debuff lasts).
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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tamsirlidianMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
Hey, I had a few question about respecing from SS to MoF. Ran some ACT (2min on dummies in DR). First is my basic SS setup following Ironzerg79's guide with greater lightning enchantment. http://postimg.org/image/5dr0e9h3d/
Second is MoF with 15 point in thaum for Spelltwisting postimg.org/image/q44y23gll/
And last is respec with that guide's template postimg.org/image/795kicpev/
Surprisingly I lose around 1-2% damage total from changing classes simply. Could someone explain me if it's right so or just if I did something false while running my tests. Can give more details if needed
OP mentioned that it stacks 5 times, and non critical hit resets it. If I understand it correctly: if I can land 5x critical hits within 4 secs, the monster will take 10% extra damage for the next 4 secs... This is quite a lot.
If the above statement is true, then the next question is what type of damage trigger the debuff? If it can be triggered by all type of damage (DOTs, at wills, encounter power etc) then the stacking can be done quite easily, and the value of upgrading vorpal beyond perfect is quite significant.
Sorry, I know the above questions could be answered with simple testing in test server, but I dont have a pure or trans vorpal at the moment.
tamsirlidianMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
I read it, that's why I ask if my ACTs are wrong. Going from SS to MoF I lose around 3-5% total damage on 2 min rotation gaining the debuff and more CC in the process, which seems a great trade for me. I've heard the damage was supposed to be 50% of that of one SS, here on my ACT it's only about 10 time less.
How can you obtain those orbs you are mentioning in your posts? I tried googling it but only found out its related to strongholds. Am I right to assume that you can buy it off the stronghold marketplace?
Also additionally I have comment regarding defense enchantments. Are you also taking into account that part of the extra HP will be turned into damage done via your offensive enchantments? Or is the damage boost so tiny in comparison to the loss of survivability when stacking HP over lifesteal?
I'm going to be honest, I am still working on my MoF toon. Had it since they first came out with the path. This is seriously a good build. I don't have all of this because I've been testing things on my own to see how they work. But I may change things around to this. I do like playing the Mof but I also have a Spellstorm CW as well. Something about not really wanting to choose between the two but being able to play whatever I want. This is great. Thank you
As someone who has just come back to the game and has been struggling with all the changes, this guide is amazing, Thankyou Don't suppose you want to write a DC one ?
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beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
How can you obtain those orbs you are mentioning in your posts? I tried googling it but only found out its related to strongholds. Am I right to assume that you can buy it off the stronghold marketplace?
There are confusions about at which level Main Hands and Off Hands will be available, see "Stronghold Rank 8 vs 16" topic on reddit (I am not sure if can link it).
Also additionally I have comment regarding defense enchantments. Are you also taking into account that part of the extra HP will be turned into damage done via your offensive enchantments? Or is the damage boost so tiny in comparison to the loss of survivability when stacking HP over lifesteal?
Damage boost from additional HP is too low to notice it, imo.
@tamsirlidian Results on dummies can be a way different than in dungeons or in pvp. I am pretty sure that going with your 2nd build (prev MoF one) with some similiar geared SS will result in being beaten about 100% in DPS. Also notice that this build is PvP focused, then there are party–wide buffs in use that buffs both you and others (especially the other CW) so you should never be placed just a few percents below SS in Paingiver. Again, if you want to make a high AoE DPS, go SS paragon.
@xsloane I don't play any other character so I won't write any other class nor paragon guide.
tamsirlidianMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
My main concern was if I was able to do solo-content and fill out the DPS that CW or other DPS class do during a dungeon to kill mobs. Don't care much about paingiver.
Surprised there is no plagure fire in your guide.
It's very easy to stack plague on monsters by using steal time and icy terrain.
Recently, I switched from perfect vorpal to perfect plague fire. No regrets.
Sold my p. vorpal and bought a p. terror for my DC.
My main concern was if I was able to do solo-content and fill out the DPS that CW or other DPS class do during a dungeon to kill mobs. Don't care much about paingiver.
CW is very versatile class, excellent for soloing and for party support.
For difficult soloing, my renegade MoF with spell twisting uses this:
ray of enfeeblement (tab) + fanning the flame + chill strike (to put chill on boss) + disintegrate + ice knife (and of course, swath of destruction)
If you want to rank higher on paingiver while clearing mobs in dungeons, change to oppressive force because it has unlimited targets and requires no aiming. If you don't care about paingiver, then just use furious immolation on mobs.
Just how good are the Tranquil and Tenebrous Enchants compared to the Brutal / Savage enchants that they would replace? I have noticed the Tenebrous proc somewhat, but haven't noticed anything with the Tranquil. Not saying they are not as good as you say, just wondering HOW GOOD.
Just how good are the Tranquil and Tenebrous Enchants compared to the Brutal / Savage enchants that they would replace? I have noticed the Tenebrous proc somewhat, but haven't noticed anything with the Tranquil. Not saying they are not as good as you say, just wondering HOW GOOD.
Tenebrous and Tranquil multiprocs with SB and tabbed FtF (respectively directly and once taking damage within 0.5s). SB and FtF treats all hit enemies as one target in the meaning of offense & defense enchant procs, AP gain etc.
No one SS skill, however, works that way. This is interesting, because instead, lightning damage, while single proccing offense & defense enchants and AP gain, multiprocs Storm Spell, Lostmauth, and… Weapon/Armor enchants.
There are a deeper, interesting ways with dots. Like, encounter Icy DoTs multiprocs (generally), while encounter arcane dots does not (like EF or RoE) at all. But OF multiprocs (as its daily). Futher comp., FI seems not multiproccing nothing but AP gain.
It is insane mess and I did never got deeper and deeper as it shows me a bigger and bigger mess. In short words: Yes for MoF because of multiproccing on Fire spells (except FI), No for SS.
How much armor penetration should i aim for, shouldnt i use rank 12 savage enchants?
You should aim as many Arpen to fit 59.5% Resistance Ignored for PvE and as many Arpen as looks reasonable in PvP vs targeting classes (Back to the Armor Penetration depression for more details).
One tranquil, then rest Savage looks a best option for most well geared MoFs. Back to the Maximum Hitpoints for more details.
At what Crit Chance % do you think is the right amount to move from Chilling Presence + 10% Crit Chance Feat to Phantasmal?
Taking just average Critical Chance:
76.(6)%
However, it will change slightly if we count Lostmauth or once we not that Critical Chance part over 100% is wasted. I didn't made a futher comparations, but seeing over 120% Critical Chance in fight makes me sure that Phantasmal looks a better choice for well geared MoF.
Side note: I think it's very close to the 100% for Spell Storm because of Storm Spell and its non–critical procs. And counting Lostmauth, I think its about 85% Critical Chance for MoF and 95% Critical Chance for Spell Storm.
Hi! all so im a MoF sub class too obv and i was looking through this brilliant guild. got a question though (might have been asked previously idk..): my crit severity is capped at 97% without any point in dragon's fury (now i dont know if crit sev goes beyond 97% but if it does theres no indication (if not directly even in tooltip it doesnt say or show an hidden percentages)
my char is tiefling, feats: full renegade and 2 in oppressor, have an allure ioun stone upgraded to epic status...rest well differed a bit from this guide just so as to be a tet-bit unique to my build
so back to question...i have the 5th tyrrany of dragon's boon point (one we get through Haarl's book) and i have choices between dragon's fury, dragons thirst or dragon's grip as mentioned in your guide but my trouble is my crit sev is at 97% , now if what people say is true then i might have more than 97% outa which 97% shows up rest is hidden if that true it would make sense to invest in all 3 of dragon's fury to get pure dps but if not its a waste of boon points...in case dragon's fury isnt a viable option then im left with the other 2 so...which one should i put all 3 in or which 2/3 shall i mix up (as in none having all 3 points invested in them)!?
@ash1113: I would prefer 1 point per boon. Meaning lifesteal, controlbonus and crit severity. Just thinking that's the way to get the most benefit per point.
@etelgrin: I think beatannier mentioned that rimefire will crit if the source of chill was also a crit. Don't know why you need Critical Conflagration for that. And the tests i did last week show that rimefire crits can also can proc Lostmauth's vengeance.
@beatannier: First of all, thanks for this very good and detailed guide. I fell in love with my MoF all over again^^ Also i like the way you build up your guide, pointing out the basic cw mechanics and explaining the different skills in detail. Insipired by a thread in this library, i did some testing and now i would like to hear your opinion about that. The thread that got my attention was this one. Even though i don't agree on his conclusion that critical conflagration is the best way to distribute smolder, i came to consenting his point about CoI being more useful on tab as FtF. My main reason for taking FtF on tab was to open a battle with an encounter that would spread smolder on nearby enemies to make the most benefit of swath of destruction. CoI on the other hand gets a bigger redius, providing a lot of chill and also lots of Lostmauth procs. But foregoing FtF on tab requires us to spread Smolder with scorching burst manually which again requires a more skilled and focused gameplay if we want to effectively use swath of destruction. In my tests, i did the most damage with tabbed CoI (+IT, FtF and ST) compared to other rotations and was also able to keep smolder/rimefire up the whole time. (And back to @etelgrin: This rotation had way more hits of Lostmauth's vengeance than even a SS build.) My conclusion was that tabbed CoI is recommendable for MoFs that aim to maximize their own damage as long they manage to spread smolder fast and aimed, because if the mobs die before you can put smolder on them - why do you play a MoF with swath of destruction?
That's the one point i'd like to hear your opinion about. During those tests, i came up with two other things bugging me. First my Tenebrous enchantment you also recommend in your Guide. It was only a Rank 10 with 3%, but its damage was so low that i sold it right after the tests. Second: Furios Immolation. I really love this Daily - and it seems it does more then i thought. During my tests i was hitting with an effectiveness of 125% most of the time. These 25% are clear: 20% from swath of destruction, 5% from the bitter cold feat. But i noticed that i also had hits with an effectiveness of 145%. These seemed to occure randomly, for a second at max, but also occured regularly for about 5 seconds after using Furios Immolation. But i can't find any information why this happens. All i can say is that it happens. It seems to be working even on big targets like the beholders on the stronghold map for example, although it is really hard to trace it if you are in group because there are way to many debuffs.
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beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
edited October 2015
+20% for 5s after Furious Immolation? I am pretty sure it is because of stacking Smolder.
Rimefire Smolder provides +20% damage buff. Then, Furious Immolation puts also regular Smolder that will last togheter with Rimefire Smolder until affected enemy gains another Chill source or until 5s passed (because regular Smolder lasts 5s).
Both Rimefire Smolder and Smolder stacks, providing 2× +20% buff. With Bitter Cold, it is +45% damage buff.
PS Fun fact: Combustive Action puts +24% damage buff from all sources (unlike its description) for all. Togheter with +20% from Combustive Action, it provides +44% damage buff for all. With above mentioned double Smolder, it is 2× +44% = +88% damage boost for all party. Then, add single +5% from Bitter Cold = +93% damage buff for all. Not even mentioning other feats and buffs. Unfortunatelly, in practice, you won't be able to put double Smolder effective, not mentioning second Control Wizard with his Chill, removing regular Smolder that goes togheter with Rimefire Smolder.
romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited October 2015
Smolder + Rimefire Duration of Smolder = 5 seconds Duration of Rimefire = 10 seconds
Without Icy Veins: It is pretty easy. Just apply smolder to the target and place a critting Icy Terrain. If you happen to use Critical Conflagration, a simple Icy Terrain(has to crit) will apply both. Once Smolder + Rimefire are active, you can extend their duration by using fire and cold based spells so they don't wear off. Important, once Smolder wears off and only Rimefire is active, you cannot re-apply smolder unless Rimefire is gone.
With Icy Veins: This part is tricky, since Icy Veins overrides Smolder, no matter what. The secret here is to apply Smolder first (with tabbed Fanning or Scorching Burst) then place a critting Icy Terrain, then get outside of Icy Veins range and not cast cold based spells, but Scorching Burst/Fanning the Flame until Smolder appears on the target. After this happens, all you have to do is to refresh Smolder and Rimefire by casting fire/cold spells.
In my opinion, the double Rimefire/Smolder is only worth the trouble when you don't run Icy Veins, otherwise it just takes too much work and time to get it up. Time which you could have used to deal damage with other spells instead.
Comments
But to answer the question, yes it will. The monster will take an additional 2% of damage from all sources for 4 seconds (I think that's how long the debuff lasts).
http://postimg.org/image/5dr0e9h3d/
Second is MoF with 15 point in thaum for Spelltwisting
postimg.org/image/q44y23gll/
And last is respec with that guide's template
postimg.org/image/795kicpev/
Surprisingly I lose around 1-2% damage total from changing classes simply. Could someone explain me if it's right so or just if I did something false while running my tests. Can give more details if needed
If the above statement is true, then the next question is what type of damage trigger the debuff? If it can be triggered by all type of damage (DOTs, at wills, encounter power etc) then the stacking can be done quite easily, and the value of upgrading vorpal beyond perfect is quite significant.
Sorry, I know the above questions could be answered with simple testing in test server, but I dont have a pure or trans vorpal at the moment.
Am I right to assume that you can buy it off the stronghold marketplace?
Also additionally I have comment regarding defense enchantments. Are you also taking into account that part of the extra HP will be turned into damage done via your offensive enchantments? Or is the damage boost so tiny in comparison to the loss of survivability when stacking HP over lifesteal?
Don't suppose you want to write a DC one ?
@tamsirlidian Results on dummies can be a way different than in dungeons or in pvp.
I am pretty sure that going with your 2nd build (prev MoF one) with some similiar geared SS will result in being beaten about 100% in DPS.
Also notice that this build is PvP focused, then there are party–wide buffs in use that buffs both you and others (especially the other CW) so you should never be placed just a few percents below SS in Paingiver.
Again, if you want to make a high AoE DPS, go SS paragon.
@xsloane I don't play any other character so I won't write any other class nor paragon guide.
Surprised there is no plagure fire in your guide.
It's very easy to stack plague on monsters by using steal time and icy terrain.
Recently, I switched from perfect vorpal to perfect plague fire. No regrets.
Sold my p. vorpal and bought a p. terror for my DC.
For difficult soloing, my renegade MoF with spell twisting uses this:
shield (tab) + steal time + icy terrain + disintregrate + furious immolation
For non-solo boss fights, usually:
ray of enfeeblement (tab) + fanning the flame + chill strike (to put chill on boss) + disintegrate + ice knife
(and of course, swath of destruction)
If you want to rank higher on paingiver while clearing mobs in dungeons, change to oppressive force because it has unlimited targets and requires no aiming. If you don't care about paingiver, then just use furious immolation on mobs.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
Just how good are the Tranquil and Tenebrous Enchants compared to the Brutal / Savage enchants that they would replace? I have noticed the Tenebrous proc somewhat, but haven't noticed anything with the Tranquil. Not saying they are not as good as you say, just wondering HOW GOOD.
SB and FtF treats all hit enemies as one target in the meaning of offense & defense enchant procs, AP gain etc.
No one SS skill, however, works that way.
This is interesting, because instead, lightning damage, while single proccing offense & defense enchants and AP gain, multiprocs Storm Spell, Lostmauth, and… Weapon/Armor enchants.
There are a deeper, interesting ways with dots. Like, encounter Icy DoTs multiprocs (generally), while encounter arcane dots does not (like EF or RoE) at all. But OF multiprocs (as its daily). Futher comp., FI seems not multiproccing nothing but AP gain.
It is insane mess and I did never got deeper and deeper as it shows me a bigger and bigger mess.
In short words: Yes for MoF because of multiproccing on Fire spells (except FI), No for SS.
You should aim as many Arpen to fit 59.5% Resistance Ignored for PvE and as many Arpen as looks reasonable in PvP vs targeting classes (Back to the Armor Penetration depression for more details).
One tranquil, then rest Savage looks a best option for most well geared MoFs.
Back to the Maximum Hitpoints for more details.
Taking just average Critical Chance:
76.(6)%
However, it will change slightly if we count Lostmauth or once we not that Critical Chance part over 100% is wasted.
I didn't made a futher comparations, but seeing over 120% Critical Chance in fight makes me sure that Phantasmal looks a better choice for well geared MoF.
Side note: I think it's very close to the 100% for Spell Storm because of Storm Spell and its non–critical procs.
And counting Lostmauth, I think its about 85% Critical Chance for MoF and 95% Critical Chance for Spell Storm.
Thanks man!!
If you have any time, what are your opinions on the Terror aug?
16k power
10.2k crit
2k recovery
67% arm pen( i pvp alot so it drops when I lose my ioun)
I usually run spellstorm for pvp, but I respec a lot for the twitch viewers to show how powerful MoF can be. It is a highly underrated build for sure.
Xerxes - GWF
Eazy - DC
Tyrian - TR
Xerxes - GWF
Eazy - DC
Tyrian - TR
so im a MoF sub class too obv and i was looking through this brilliant guild. got a question though (might have been asked previously idk..): my crit severity is capped at 97% without any point in dragon's fury (now i dont know if crit sev goes beyond 97% but if it does theres no indication (if not directly even in tooltip it doesnt say or show an hidden percentages)
my char is tiefling, feats: full renegade and 2 in oppressor, have an allure ioun stone upgraded to epic status...rest well differed a bit from this guide just so as to be a tet-bit unique to my build
so back to question...i have the 5th tyrrany of dragon's boon point (one we get through Haarl's book) and i have choices between dragon's fury, dragons thirst or dragon's grip as mentioned in your guide but my trouble is my crit sev is at 97% , now if what people say is true then i might have more than 97% outa which 97% shows up rest is hidden if that true it would make sense to invest in all 3 of dragon's fury to get pure dps but if not its a waste of boon points...in case dragon's fury isnt a viable option then im left with the other 2 so...which one should i put all 3 in or which 2/3 shall i mix up (as in none having all 3 points invested in them)!?
thx
I would prefer 1 point per boon. Meaning lifesteal, controlbonus and crit severity. Just thinking that's the way to get the most benefit per point.
@etelgrin:
I think beatannier mentioned that rimefire will crit if the source of chill was also a crit. Don't know why you need Critical Conflagration for that. And the tests i did last week show that rimefire crits can also can proc Lostmauth's vengeance.
@beatannier:
First of all, thanks for this very good and detailed guide. I fell in love with my MoF all over again^^ Also i like the way you build up your guide, pointing out the basic cw mechanics and explaining the different skills in detail.
Insipired by a thread in this library, i did some testing and now i would like to hear your opinion about that. The thread that got my attention was this one. Even though i don't agree on his conclusion that critical conflagration is the best way to distribute smolder, i came to consenting his point about CoI being more useful on tab as FtF.
My main reason for taking FtF on tab was to open a battle with an encounter that would spread smolder on nearby enemies to make the most benefit of swath of destruction. CoI on the other hand gets a bigger redius, providing a lot of chill and also lots of Lostmauth procs. But foregoing FtF on tab requires us to spread Smolder with scorching burst manually which again requires a more skilled and focused gameplay if we want to effectively use swath of destruction.
In my tests, i did the most damage with tabbed CoI (+IT, FtF and ST) compared to other rotations and was also able to keep smolder/rimefire up the whole time.
(And back to @etelgrin: This rotation had way more hits of Lostmauth's vengeance than even a SS build.)
My conclusion was that tabbed CoI is recommendable for MoFs that aim to maximize their own damage as long they manage to spread smolder fast and aimed, because if the mobs die before you can put smolder on them - why do you play a MoF with swath of destruction?
That's the one point i'd like to hear your opinion about. During those tests, i came up with two other things bugging me. First my Tenebrous enchantment you also recommend in your Guide. It was only a Rank 10 with 3%, but its damage was so low that i sold it right after the tests.
Second: Furios Immolation. I really love this Daily - and it seems it does more then i thought. During my tests i was hitting with an effectiveness of 125% most of the time. These 25% are clear: 20% from swath of destruction, 5% from the bitter cold feat. But i noticed that i also had hits with an effectiveness of 145%. These seemed to occure randomly, for a second at max, but also occured regularly for about 5 seconds after using Furios Immolation. But i can't find any information why this happens. All i can say is that it happens. It seems to be working even on big targets like the beholders on the stronghold map for example, although it is really hard to trace it if you are in group because there are way to many debuffs.
I am pretty sure it is because of stacking
Both
PS Fun fact:
Togheter with +20% from
Unfortunatelly, in practice, you won't be able to put double
I was wondering smt for a while.
Is it possible for only a MoF cw in pve team that can hold both rimfire and normal smolder aspect together on mobs, boss?
If so how? Could you pls acknowledge me?
Duration of Smolder = 5 seconds
Duration of Rimefire = 10 seconds
Without Icy Veins: It is pretty easy. Just apply smolder to the target and place a critting Icy Terrain. If you happen to use Critical Conflagration, a simple Icy Terrain(has to crit) will apply both. Once Smolder + Rimefire are active, you can extend their duration by using fire and cold based spells so they don't wear off. Important, once Smolder wears off and only Rimefire is active, you cannot re-apply smolder unless Rimefire is gone.
With Icy Veins: This part is tricky, since Icy Veins overrides Smolder, no matter what. The secret here is to apply Smolder first (with tabbed Fanning or Scorching Burst)
then place a critting Icy Terrain, then get outside of Icy Veins range and not cast cold based spells, but Scorching Burst/Fanning the Flame until Smolder appears on the target. After this happens, all you have to do is to refresh Smolder and Rimefire by casting fire/cold spells.
In my opinion, the double Rimefire/Smolder is only worth the trouble when you don't run Icy Veins, otherwise it just takes too much work and time to get it up. Time which you could have used to deal damage with other spells instead.