I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day.
What was the price of a GMOP on the first day of public access to NW? 100,000 AD. Cryptic has been charging out the wazoo from day 1; these sinks are not in response to AD farms. Please get your facts straight!
I considered reserving judgment because the game is still enjoyable for now (until I need to upgrade) and because I have good friends in the game. However, more important than that... I'm tired of supporting a dishonest company. Simple as that. If they had said straight up: "we are not making enough money and the game overall is at risk. Players: what can we do?" We would have given them many good suggestions. Instead.... This.
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day.
What was the price of a GMOP on the first day of public access to NW? 100,000 AD. Cryptic has been charging out the wazoo from day 1; these sinks are not in response to AD farms. Please get your facts straight!
Okay, you clearly weren't here the first day of public access, because we didn't even GET the current refining system until Module 2 - when it was put in place to help sink AD out of the system because people had been exploiting for months and they couldn't get it under control. Before that, all you had to do was fuse four of the same enchants together into the next rank. No refining, no marks.
Personally, I'm reserving judgement until after the changes. Maybe things won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Maybe the devs will decide that the changes are too extreme and add in other ways of earning AD. I don't know, but I don't want to quit a game that I still totally love just because of something like this. It's not like they are targeting just a few people with this. Everyone will be in the same boat. It should even the playing field between the people who have 50 characters and the people who only have 1 or 2.
The only way this change could level the playing field is if they did a server wipe and reset everyone back to level 1... with absolutely nothing in their banks. There are already so many different boats that people are in that to believe this change will put everyone in the same boat does not hold one bit of rationality. Those who are riding in the luxury liners will remain at the top, most of us in rowboats will lose our Evinrudes and be left with one oar, and the new players will be given a canoe without any paddles.
Your only way to fight it is to close your purset. It will also declare the death of the game, unfortunately.
Anyway you can run any content in purple so until purple is unplayable we can continue to play the game. I don't care about Mythic stuff, I know I will never see it but I'm ANGRY to face them in PVP.
Then don't PvP. Follow the great path shown by the Devs... if you don't like something, remove it from your game. And there're Training Puppets, go ahead and unleash your anger upon them!
Why doesnt really matter. The facts are that a new player cannot get what the rest of us have already. New players are not going to enjoy PVP because it is inevitable that they will meet up with a group of BiS PVPers that have zero chance of challenging. Sure, you can completely avoid PVP but is that really a reasonable response?
Well, the Devs are ignoring player feedback, only option left, not to participate in PvP. The same goes for the whole upgrading system, until the Devs come up with reasonable changes, hold on to your AD. At some point, the players have to draw a line...
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day.
What was the price of a GMOP on the first day of public access to NW? 100,000 AD. Cryptic has been charging out the wazoo from day 1; these sinks are not in response to AD farms. Please get your facts straight!
100% agree! The AD leadership farms are a result of ridiculous prices and not the other way around!
Again. THERE WERE NO GMOPS WHEN THE GAME LAUNCHED.
The GMOPs were added IN MODULE 2, AFTER some of the huge exploits (which had been running for MONTHS by that point), and, yes, people botting Leadership through the gateway, had introduced tons of AD that needed to be sunk.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Personally, I'm reserving judgement until after the changes. Maybe things won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Maybe the devs will decide that the changes are too extreme and add in other ways of earning AD. I don't know, but I don't want to quit a game that I still totally love just because of something like this. It's not like they are targeting just a few people with this. Everyone will be in the same boat. It should even the playing field between the people who have 50 characters and the people who only have 1 or 2.
I only HAVE 1 or 2. I supplement my income with Leadership and cash. I am not increasing the cash to offset the loss to Leadership. In fact, it makes pull back the wallet. Lack of progress will be the end of me playing.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
So Scott is dissembling (I'm using the kind word.) Not that I didn't recognize it, just want to drive it home. Things come out of this typing that are not true. This is the way of Cryptic. And they want our business....
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obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
... People hoping for a decrease of fixed prizes in near future will probably be disappointed. Cryptic will be monitoring the amount of AD in game and will decrease the fixed prizes, when they see a steady decrease in the global amount of AD - BUT all people with millions of AD will immediately stop spending ADs resulting in a deadlock - Cryptic waiting for people spending AD and players waiting for Cryptic to announce a decrease in fixed prices.
THIS. This is exactly what I plan to do. And I only have 1 toon farming Leadership. With no immediate changes and no decisions announced... this is what will happen.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
A leadership armies aren't exploiting as long as they are on the same account and you bought the extra slots. Astral resonator and Caturday were exploits. This isn't about the latter.
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
A leadership armies aren't exploiting as long as they are on the same account and you bought the extra slots. Astral resonator and Caturday were exploits. This isn't about the latter.
No, but using a bot to do professions is exploiting. Which a ton of players were doing. Seriously, do you have any idea how easy it was to bot professions? It was easier through the gateway, but even removing Leadership from there didn't stop it. Removing the AD from leadership was the right thing to do.
It's going to be chaotic for a while, but the dust will eventually settle. Just try to hang in there.
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
A leadership armies aren't exploiting as long as they are on the same account and you bought the extra slots. Astral resonator and Caturday were exploits. This isn't about the latter.
No, but using a bot to do professions is exploiting. Which a ton of players were doing. Seriously, do you have any idea how easy it was to bot professions? It was easier through the gateway, but even removing Leadership from there didn't stop it. Removing the AD from leadership was the right thing to do.
It's going to be chaotic for a while, but the dust will eventually settle. Just try to hang in there.
You are putting way, way too much faith into a company that is not deserving based off of their past discretions...
I was hopeful that based off of the recent communication that things were headed in the right direction...but this all feels like one big set up.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
It's going to be chaotic for a while, but the dust will eventually settle. Just try to hang in there.
If you recall, we are still on the heels of the chaotic Mod 6 implosion. What will be the next catastrophe?? Neverwinter is a very unstable place. Has been at least since April. I believe the Leadership Armies really got underway in reaction to Mod 6's removal of many AD trajectories, btw. They are just snowballing things even further, and the reckoning is going to be harsh.
If they think that there are some people out there with ill-gotten gains, why don't they just take a large chunk off the top of it. Instead of a 100 million ad cap (unbelievable) they could create a new cap at 30 million and wipe away a large amount of AD. Then they would only be punishing an elite subset instead of the whole player base. They could drop the character limit to 10 while they are at it. They seem to have no problems with unfairly changing rules mid-stream anyway.
I spend what I have. How much do you have socked away??
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
A leadership armies aren't exploiting as long as they are on the same account and you bought the extra slots. Astral resonator and Caturday were exploits. This isn't about the latter.
No, but using a bot to do professions is exploiting. Which a ton of players were doing. Seriously, do you have any idea how easy it was to bot professions? It was easier through the gateway, but even removing Leadership from there didn't stop it. Removing the AD from leadership was the right thing to do.
It's going to be chaotic for a while, but the dust will eventually settle. Just try to hang in there.
Please show me some evidence that those who were using easily downloaded scripts to do Leadership on the gateway suddenly decided to pay for, download, and set up in game bots to do their Leadership tasks. I doubt that you can as it is a conclusion based upon speculation versus reality. Running an in game bot versus an app script is like comparing apples to oranges -- while they may be similar they are not exactly the same.
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day. Now that they've removed the biggest cause of this, there's reason to believe they will also lower/remove the sinks, give it some time.
I see you agree this isn't about bots at all. I've been giving them time since they rendered my gear obsolete in Mod 6 and made the mobs meaner. This isn't a new thing. One step forward, two steps....
Well... no, it's not entirely about bots, or goldfarmers. This is because PLAYERS were exploiting. Tons of them.
A leadership armies aren't exploiting as long as they are on the same account and you bought the extra slots. Astral resonator and Caturday were exploits. This isn't about the latter.
No, but using a bot to do professions is exploiting. Which a ton of players were doing. Seriously, do you have any idea how easy it was to bot professions? It was easier through the gateway, but even removing Leadership from there didn't stop it. Removing the AD from leadership was the right thing to do.
It's going to be chaotic for a while, but the dust will eventually settle. Just try to hang in there.
Please show me some evidence that those who were using easily downloaded scripts to do Leadership on the gateway suddenly decided to pay for, download, and set up in game bots to do their Leadership tasks. I doubt that you can as it is a conclusion based upon speculation versus reality. Running an in game bot versus an app script is like comparing apples to oranges -- while they may be similar they are not exactly the same.
The main person who was writing the script for the gateway was giving away access to an in-game bot when leadership was removed from the gateway. No one had to pay for anything.
I dont want to be a BiS player in a sea of casuals. Its boring.
thank you for your words. maybe you can spend some time discuss this at your guild plagueing pvp with premades
They enjoy PVP. It is not their fault that the devs of the game have made it impossible for the casual player to compete effectively. Instead of blaming the people that love to play, blame the jerks who made it so that you can NEVER get gear as good as theirs. Now, instead of new guilds catching up and getting geared players, they will never catch up. Your solution to this issue is for the people in my guild to quit? Most of us have played since launch. Everyone needs to contact Cryptic and complain at them directly. http://mmos.com/developers/cryptic-studios
i am talking about attitude. not pvp system
"I dont want to be a BiS player in a sea of casuals"
many from your guild constantly play like to be BIS player in sea of casuals. thats what i talk about... no offense
I feel like briseda has a good attitude about this. Having good gear shouldn't make one a detriment to the game if the overall point of the PVP game is to have good gear and compete against other players. This one's on Cryptic for making gear so damned hard to acquire then not properly segregating the haves vs have nots.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
It should even the playing field between the people who have 50 characters and the people who only have 1 or 2.
Why do you think it is appropriate or fair to even that playing field? People that have 50 characters spent money buying character slots. They spent many, many hours leveling 40+ toons high enough for professions. They invested many months leveling Leadership to 20 then again to 25.
Why should we redistribute the economy to "even the playing field" between the people that invest that time and the people that did not.
Unlike the real economy, every player in the game had the exact same opportunity and played by exactly the same rules. The playing field was already even.
Evening the playing field is not a justification for this action.
PS - For the record I have 14 toons, 2-3 of which I actively play.
Why doesnt really matter. The facts are that a new player cannot get what the rest of us have already. New players are not going to enjoy PVP because it is inevitable that they will meet up with a group of BiS PVPers that have zero chance of challenging. Sure, you can completely avoid PVP but is that really a reasonable response?
They are not going to enjoy ECC either. You need serious gear including enchants to have a shot at doing it legit!
eGWD isn't much easier, either. The T1 dungeons are more reasonable now for lower geared people, but now 2 of the 3 T2's require a level of gear to complete legit that's going to be tough for anyone new to get. They'd need to get carried and unless they've got a helpful guild then their chances are nil.
Which is why so many people are still exploiting the last boss in eCC (why bother with eTOS, the easiest of the 3, when eCC can be farmed?) and who knows if that'll get fixed tomorrow or any time soon since I doubt it'd even be listed as a fix. But as long as it isn't, it's going to be maybe the only way for new players and characters to get the best PvE gear available to them.
Off topic, but could we get some account bound Elven gear for other classes from the element/protector seal vendor at some point?
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I'd like to point out that all of these ridiculous AD sinks were put in because there was trillions of AD floating around and billions being generated every day.
What was the price of a GMOP on the first day of public access to NW? 100,000 AD. Cryptic has been charging out the wazoo from day 1; these sinks are not in response to AD farms. Please get your facts straight!
100% agree! The AD leadership farms are a result of ridiculous prices and not the other way around!
Again. THERE WERE NO GMOPS WHEN THE GAME LAUNCHED.
The GMOPs were added IN MODULE 2, AFTER some of the huge exploits (which had been running for MONTHS by that point), and, yes, people botting Leadership through the gateway, had introduced tons of AD that needed to be sunk.
you are right. However that is when they introduced refining. Something many many players warned them not to do. They also made a point to say that this would free up space in our inventory (LOL) and that their intention is that the regents (aka GMOP) would drop IN GAME.
this has been long downward spiral unfortunately. I don't envy their position but at the same time its hard to feel sorry as the hole has been dug deeper and deeper for years now. Honestly at this point, you just get the feeling they don't have the bandwidth to make the necessary coding changes needed
Comments
Okay, you clearly weren't here the first day of public access, because we didn't even GET the current refining system until Module 2 - when it was put in place to help sink AD out of the system because people had been exploiting for months and they couldn't get it under control. Before that, all you had to do was fuse four of the same enchants together into the next rank. No refining, no marks.
Follow the great path shown by the Devs... if you don't like something, remove it from your game.
And there're Training Puppets, go ahead and unleash your anger upon them!
The same goes for the whole upgrading system, until the Devs come up with reasonable changes, hold on to your AD.
At some point, the players have to draw a line...
Again. THERE WERE NO GMOPS WHEN THE GAME LAUNCHED.
The GMOPs were added IN MODULE 2, AFTER some of the huge exploits (which had been running for MONTHS by that point), and, yes, people botting Leadership through the gateway, had introduced tons of AD that needed to be sunk.
With no immediate changes and no decisions announced... this is what will happen.
It's going to be chaotic for a while, but the dust will eventually settle. Just try to hang in there.
I was hopeful that based off of the recent communication that things were headed in the right direction...but this all feels like one big set up.
If they think that there are some people out there with ill-gotten gains, why don't they just take a large chunk off the top of it. Instead of a 100 million ad cap (unbelievable) they could create a new cap at 30 million and wipe away a large amount of AD. Then they would only be punishing an elite subset instead of the whole player base. They could drop the character limit to 10 while they are at it. They seem to have no problems with unfairly changing rules mid-stream anyway.
I spend what I have. How much do you have socked away??
Why should we redistribute the economy to "even the playing field" between the people that invest that time and the people that did not.
Unlike the real economy, every player in the game had the exact same opportunity and played by exactly the same rules. The playing field was already even.
Evening the playing field is not a justification for this action.
PS - For the record I have 14 toons, 2-3 of which I actively play.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Which is why so many people are still exploiting the last boss in eCC (why bother with eTOS, the easiest of the 3, when eCC can be farmed?) and who knows if that'll get fixed tomorrow or any time soon since I doubt it'd even be listed as a fix. But as long as it isn't, it's going to be maybe the only way for new players and characters to get the best PvE gear available to them.
Off topic, but could we get some account bound Elven gear for other classes from the element/protector seal vendor at some point?
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
The GMOPs were added IN MODULE 2, AFTER some of the huge exploits (which had been running for MONTHS by that point), and, yes, people botting Leadership through the gateway, had introduced tons of AD that needed to be sunk.
you are right. However that is when they introduced refining. Something many many players warned them not to do. They also made a point to say that this would free up space in our inventory (LOL) and that their intention is that the regents (aka GMOP) would drop IN GAME.
this has been long downward spiral unfortunately. I don't envy their position but at the same time its hard to feel sorry as the hole has been dug deeper and deeper for years now. Honestly at this point, you just get the feeling they don't have the bandwidth to make the necessary coding changes needed