PvP - My First Foray (and opinions)

saskdaddy · August 2015

I am a TR. I have been playing about 2 weeks now. My gear is from the rewards for doing Vigilance Quests throughout the storyline, and a couple of inexpensive pcs I bought from the auction. No PvP gear and 0% tenacity rating. I also have no PvP pots, but I'm not sure they would have been a great help to be honest, considering the kind of damage I was taking.

In keeping with my attempt to maximise the amount of AD I get a day, I have been doing all the daily quests for the bonus AD, this includes (for the firs time tonight), the 4 PvP matches. I also did the skirmishes for the first time tonight, and they too were a blast.

I expected my 1st PvP experinece to be 'painful', and it was. Although, not nearly as painful as I thought it might be. At the end of 4 matches, I tallied my scores and I averaged 3 kills for every 7 deaths. I even managed to get one 'double kill', although I'm not even sure how, lol. My team won 3 matches out of 4, but I'm sure I played no major role in any of the victories.

I queue up for the PvP, as a single player. As such, I am randomly placed with people and away we go. For those that don't know it, that's called 'pugging it'. And when you pug, you can end up with people like me that are not geared to the teeth and may not be as super fantastic badazz as you are. I had some whiners, but not many. Even had one guy encourage me, which was a pleasant surprise.

I am there to learn (and have fun). I will get better. I watch videos and read articles about my class and try to learn everything there is about it. The whiners don't bother me, I used to play Jade Dynasty - Vengence (another PWI game) and there was a player there called TheStyx that brought whiners to an all new (and untopable) level. So whine if you want to, it won't bother me.

My characters name is Harley Quinn, and I'll be doing the PvP 4 times a day for the bonus AD. If you're grouped with me, understand I am still very much a newbie trying to learn and get better, and it IS only a game. No need for you to go and /wrists over it. I'm having fun, you should be too! Hope to see you all on the battlefield.

Unknown · August 2015

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saskdaddy · August 2015

xsayajinx1 wrote: »

Hope I don't face you in any PvP match, in my team or opposites one doesn't matter.
You should first of all buy some blue tenacity gear from Auction House, queue afterwards please.
It will make your game and those of your teammates way more enjoyable.

Thanks!

I have a very limited amount of AD. What I do get is being used to buy the campaign boons to develop my toon. That is my priority over gear that will (eventually) only be replaced. It means some growing pains, but that's what developing a character usually means.... working to get to where you want to be.

Unknown · August 2015

This content has been removed.

neoxyphus · August 2015

What level and build, just wonderin'?

+1 xsayajinx1

kweassa · August 2015

1. Don't walk into a battlefield naked

Even up to this point, I see a lot of clueless people arguing that they don't feel any different with Tenacity gear, so they don't need it, and it's always the ones who are overgeared who are ruining their PvP experience. Not a word from them you should believe.

Gearing is always a part of PvP. Even in real life, more than half the battle starts from the point a fighting contract has been made, and Just as any professional fighter strives his best to bring his physical spec to a peak before he enters the ring, same with PvP.

Yes, people using r12 enchants or the notorious 'guild pvp gear' of recent, in lower levels of PvP, are basically no different from cheaters. These people are a problem, they should be ashamed of themselves for such despicable and dishonorable attitude. However, people claiming they do fine, or they should be doing find, with something like 300 IL in a lv60 PvP with 0% tenacity, no enchants at all and etc... these people are nothing but the opposite extreme of the spectrum that is PvP. They blame their laziness and inadequate preparation, unwillingness to better themselves and generally irresponsible attitude upon others.

Walking into the match without adequate levels of gearing is the same thing as walking into a battlefield naked without any weapons. When you get butchered by someone armed to the teeth, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Luckily, "adequate gear" is easy to come by in most cases, as they range at the lowest just a few hundreds of ADs, to at most less than 5k AD. Search for rare "Battlescared" tier equipment appropriate for your level. Having a full set of these still gives you around 34~37% Tenacity. It also gives you a quite a bit of HP bonus to fare better.

2. Opening your wallet is an option

Again, some people will have you think that anyone who uses any bit of money to better themselves as "wallet warriors". Unfortunately, those people have forgotten that NW is a F2P business model: they need to draw in money somewhere. People are expected to pay a certain amount of money in this aspect, and there's nothing wrong with it. If anything, people who insist in not paying a single dime of their own money into the game, actually have no right to complain about anything since technically, they aren't customers.

They don't contribute even a single penny to keep the game going or keep the devs hired. They're not part of the revenue, and at best they are clutters in the server bandwidth. Sounds harsh? Welcome to the reality.

Now, I do not condone of the recent practices this game has been showing. The amount of money they will draw out from you if you wish to stay competent, is just ridiculous and shameful attitude from the devs who basically treat the paying customers that pay their wages, as nothing but cash cows. But that being said, that does not mean you cannot have a reasonable spending plan. About 10 years ago, before the F2P model appeared, those were the days of subscription fees which usually cost 15 bucks. Considering the inflation of prices over the years, I would say it would be reasonable for someone to have a controlled spending plan of between 15~25 bucks per month.

Stick to the plan, control your spendings, and plan out your purchases wisely along with your manual RP collection. This is nothing abnormal, nor even wrong. It's not like you're spending thousands of dollars per month to satisfy your addiction to the game. A reasonable modest price that does justice for the efforts the devs who created, and are maintaining this game, is a fair deal and an honest deal.

3. Don't be shy to ask questions

Not all builds are created equal. Not all builds are viable. If someone has a totally PvE centered build, then that someone should stay in PvE. If that someone enters PvP with that build, it's not something anyone can prohibit so they are welcome to do so -- however, one must understand that one's chances of winning with such builds are slim, and therefore one becomes somewhat of a burden to the rest of the team. There's nothing unfair about it, or about such complaints. It's the reality.

If someone thinks this is unfair, then turn around the tables and see how no serious PvE player just walks in with random pug PvE queues. See how those PvE players are extremely picky about gear level and build and equipment. Those people want to PvE, so they naturally want to PvE with people who are fit for the task, not just any flippy floppy half-baked build that isn't efficient. You think PvP players are harsh? Those people actually kick people with inadequate equipment. In PvP you can't even kick anyone (unless you abuse a bug).

So, when you walk into a PvP match with 26k HP when everyone else is walking around with 50k, then clearly, you're doing something wrong. If someone complains about it, you'd better darned well listen to him. Curb your useless stubborn pride, and honestly ask him what you should do. 9 times out of 10, they will answer your questions sincerely and in earnest.

...

I hate the trollmade freaks and griefers and I view these people as the most distressing threat to the PvP community. But that don't mean I condone the actions of the majority of pug players who are generally clueless, skill-less, unprepared and despite being so thoroughly incompetent, are one of the most stubborn people with this thick gunk of pride that is not based on any skill or objective performance. To them, it's never themselves. It's always some other people that are absuing something, and never their clueless and idiotic behavior that loses the game.

Don't be like that. Accept what better players tell you, no matter how much pride it might tickle. Usually the guys who learn humility earlier on in the game, get to become talented players. Those who don't listen never take off from the scrub cesspool. Don't you forget that.

flyingleon · August 2015

The suggestions above are good. By the way, NCL is a good way to get pvp gear in no time. When last NCL came, my cw had all blue PvE gear(dread ring), ilvl 2.3k, I think I get 2 burning gears very soon with most of the wins. Yeah, I was lazy and it was a special event with double glory.

drkbodhi · August 2015

Hey saskdaddy... I am glad that your first foray was not too scary. As I said last night before I had to log off... the 70 Battlescarred gear will be 100x better than the stuff that you got from Vigilance questing... for PvP.

My suggestion is this... start talking in the channel and see who pops up. We have some VERY skilled TRs in there... and kweassa, as always has some great insights and suggestions. There are people who care in PvP... which is why we have the channel there... to help out.

My suggestion is this... play enough matches per day to get a few things... Glory and Seals. It took me a week of PvPing about 10+ matches a day, on all of my toons, to get the Grim gear. As I got better... that amount of time got shorter... with my CW I think I got the gear in 4 days. While you are earning the gear, you are also learning the ropes and developing a style.

There is a wealth of PvP knowledge... without joining a PvP guild.

saskdaddy · August 2015

drkbodhi wrote: »

Hey saskdaddy... I am glad that your first foray was not too scary. As I said last night before I had to log off... the 70 Battlescarred gear will be 100x better than the stuff that you got from Vigilance questing... for PvP.

My suggestion is this... start talking in the channel and see who pops up. We have some VERY skilled TRs in there... and kweassa, as always has some great insights and suggestions. There are people who care in PvP... which is why we have the channel there... to help out.

My suggestion is this... play enough matches per day to get a few things... Glory and Seals. It took me a week of PvPing about 10+ matches a day, on all of my toons, to get the Grim gear. As I got better... that amount of time got shorter... with my CW I think I got the gear in 4 days. While you are earning the gear, you are also learning the ropes and developing a style.

There is a wealth of PvP knowledge... without joining a PvP guild.

I think using a limited resource to invest in permanent status boost is a better idea than using it to invest in temporary gear that will only be replaced down the road.
That being said, I broke down and got myself a number of pcs of gear specifically with tenacity. My pve gear is decent, it is all blue with a number of purple pcs, as well as the elemental weapons set... so I think it's a good start. I am not going to replace the several purple pcs of gear I have for pvp, because I think the stats loss is too high, so I only bought pcs to replace the blue pcs... hope it helps.

I do research and read every webpage I find about my class, as well as searching youtube for videos. If you know of any webpages or videos you think I should definitely see, I'd appreciate knowing. I would certainly check them out.

The guide I have been using (PvE) is this one: PvE TR Build

I will eventually respec into a more pure PvP build, since it is my intention (once my character is 'finished') to be a pure pvp player. The build I am thinking of is this one: Neverwinter - Des - Trickster Rogue PvP

I am in a Guild that is very interested in Stronghold PvP, although I'm not sure if I would classify it as a PvP Guild... dunno. But I like the people and will be staying put... unless they kick me out, lol. I also found in the forums a 'PvPPugChannel' and I have joined that. Am hoping for some good tips from there as well.

saskdaddy · August 2015

kweassa wrote: »

1. Don't walk into a battlefield naked

Even up to this point, I see a lot of clueless people arguing that they don't feel any different with Tenacity gear, so they don't need it, and it's always the ones who are overgeared who are ruining their PvP experience. Not a word from them you should believe.

Gearing is always a part of PvP. Even in real life, more than half the battle starts from the point a fighting contract has been made, and Just as any professional fighter strives his best to bring his physical spec to a peak before he enters the ring, same with PvP.

Yes, people using r12 enchants or the notorious 'guild pvp gear' of recent, in lower levels of PvP, are basically no different from cheaters. These people are a problem, they should be ashamed of themselves for such despicable and dishonorable attitude. However, people claiming they do fine, or they should be doing find, with something like 300 IL in a lv60 PvP with 0% tenacity, no enchants at all and etc... these people are nothing but the opposite extreme of the spectrum that is PvP. They blame their laziness and inadequate preparation, unwillingness to better themselves and generally irresponsible attitude upon others.

Walking into the match without adequate levels of gearing is the same thing as walking into a battlefield naked without any weapons. When you get butchered by someone armed to the teeth, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Luckily, "adequate gear" is easy to come by in most cases, as they range at the lowest just a few hundreds of ADs, to at most less than 5k AD. Search for rare "Battlescared" tier equipment appropriate for your level. Having a full set of these still gives you around 34~37% Tenacity. It also gives you a quite a bit of HP bonus to fare better.

2. Opening your wallet is an option

Again, some people will have you think that anyone who uses any bit of money to better themselves as "wallet warriors". Unfortunately, those people have forgotten that NW is a F2P business model: they need to draw in money somewhere. People are expected to pay a certain amount of money in this aspect, and there's nothing wrong with it. If anything, people who insist in not paying a single dime of their own money into the game, actually have no right to complain about anything since technically, they aren't customers.

They don't contribute even a single penny to keep the game going or keep the devs hired. They're not part of the revenue, and at best they are clutters in the server bandwidth. Sounds harsh? Welcome to the reality.

Now, I do not condone of the recent practices this game has been showing. The amount of money they will draw out from you if you wish to stay competent, is just ridiculous and shameful attitude from the devs who basically treat the paying customers that pay their wages, as nothing but cash cows. But that being said, that does not mean you cannot have a reasonable spending plan. About 10 years ago, before the F2P model appeared, those were the days of subscription fees which usually cost 15 bucks. Considering the inflation of prices over the years, I would say it would be reasonable for someone to have a controlled spending plan of between 15~25 bucks per month.

Stick to the plan, control your spendings, and plan out your purchases wisely along with your manual RP collection. This is nothing abnormal, nor even wrong. It's not like you're spending thousands of dollars per month to satisfy your addiction to the game. A reasonable modest price that does justice for the efforts the devs who created, and are maintaining this game, is a fair deal and an honest deal.

3. Don't be shy to ask questions

Not all builds are created equal. Not all builds are viable. If someone has a totally PvE centered build, then that someone should stay in PvE. If that someone enters PvP with that build, it's not something anyone can prohibit so they are welcome to do so -- however, one must understand that one's chances of winning with such builds are slim, and therefore one becomes somewhat of a burden to the rest of the team. There's nothing unfair about it, or about such complaints. It's the reality.

If someone thinks this is unfair, then turn around the tables and see how no serious PvE player just walks in with random pug PvE queues. See how those PvE players are extremely picky about gear level and build and equipment. Those people want to PvE, so they naturally want to PvE with people who are fit for the task, not just any flippy floppy half-baked build that isn't efficient. You think PvP players are harsh? Those people actually kick people with inadequate equipment. In PvP you can't even kick anyone (unless you abuse a bug).

So, when you walk into a PvP match with 26k HP when everyone else is walking around with 50k, then clearly, you're doing something wrong. If someone complains about it, you'd better darned well listen to him. Curb your useless stubborn pride, and honestly ask him what you should do. 9 times out of 10, they will answer your questions sincerely and in earnest.

...

I hate the trollmade freaks and griefers and I view these people as the most distressing threat to the PvP community. But that don't mean I condone the actions of the majority of pug players who are generally clueless, skill-less, unprepared and despite being so thoroughly incompetent, are one of the most stubborn people with this thick gunk of pride that is not based on any skill or objective performance. To them, it's never themselves. It's always some other people that are absuing something, and never their clueless and idiotic behavior that loses the game.

Don't be like that. Accept what better players tell you, no matter how much pride it might tickle. Usually the guys who learn humility earlier on in the game, get to become talented players. Those who don't listen never take off from the scrub cesspool. Don't you forget that.

I did buy a number of pcs of blue gear with tenacity, it will hopefully give me a bit more survivability. I am new to the game, and I am a student when it comes to games. I listen, I watch and I soak up every bit of information I can when it comes to my characters and others.

I have already opened my wallet. I am dragonborn. I have the Dragon Ioun Stone (Aug Pet), and I own a wolf mount. I have future purchases in mind, but I will absolutely not become a P2W player. I've played enough mmo's to know that skill > gear every time.

Haven't been shy a day in my life, so that's not going to be a problem, lol. I make forum posts and ask questions... it's the only way to learn. And, obviously, people with real experience playing the game will know things I do not... that goes without saying. I am not close minded and I pay attention when experienced people tell me things... which is why I went and got myself some tenacity gear... that I had not panned on getting at this stage of my toon's development.

drkbodhi · August 2015

saskdaddy wrote: »

I am in a Guild that is very interested in Stronghold PvP, although I'm not sure if I would classify it as a PvP Guild... dunno. But I like the people and will be staying put... unless they kick me out, lol. I also found in the forums a 'PvPPugChannel' and I have joined that. Am hoping for some good tips from there as well.

Ummm... I know about the channel. I was talking to you last night on the channel after you sent a request for n invite. The names and faces thing can be a little bit of a headache. Let us know if you have any questions.

TBH... my GF got his first 2 pcs of Grim gear without having any Tenacity gear. It is a recommendation that I offer... for the betterment of all of the matches. My CW with his blue 70 pvp gear was killed just as fast as if he was naked.

Don't fall into the trap of looking at 2 year old videos. The class dynamics are completely different now. The MI/Exec is a good PvE build. In fact one thing he did not mention was the absolute need for the Lostmauth set for it to work well. This build also has some very high, real life, out of pocket costs. A legendary Red Ioun stone is VERY expensive... not to mention the other Epic companions. I do very well with my blue companions.

fatguns · August 2015

Forget about des vid, that was like 2years ago...

cesuke · August 2015

Man in lvl 70 u can get the Grim set in 5 days... Is pretty decent and btw u will own ppl and ppl will own u is the law of the life. I recomend u to just earn ur AD lvling to 60 is very fast to 70 probably 3 times 1 to 60 but anyways is fast...

saskdaddy · August 2015

fatguns wrote: »

Forget about des vid, that was like 2years ago...

Yes I realise that, but what most interested me about that video was a technique he refers to as 'weaving'... it's moving and still attacking at the same time, as opposed to having to stop moving and be standing still when attacking. I think it's an invaluable skill and I've been practising it... I still suck at it, but it'll come.

saskdaddy · August 2015

I am definitely open to suggestions where gear is concened. I have not yet researched 'end game' pvp gear, so I've no idea what to get... opinions most wanted.

My Current PvE Gear...

My current (new) PvP Gear... 1,044 Tenacity

My Current Companions...

My enchantments are mostly level 5, with two level 6 and one level 7. They are all ready to be upgraded to the next level, but I don't have any of those items that guarantee a success, I will be buying some of these very soon.

neoxyphus · August 2015

Wait ur in the 70 bracket? Thought you were in lower...

1800IL in 70 bracket...Call me noob but that seems pretty low for 70?

drkbodhi · August 2015

The range for 70 bracket is ANYONE above 70. I have seen 1200iL in a match. My GF has about the same iL as Harley... and has a winning record in PvP. My TR has a 2.3 iL... and TBH... with more I would kill more players... it wont make me better at PvP.

His numbers are actually more normal than abnormal for players who just start in PvP.

beckylunatic · August 2015

saskdaddy wrote: »

My enchantments are mostly level 5, with two level 6 and one level 7. They are all ready to be upgraded to the next level, but I don't have any of those items that guarantee a success, I will be buying some of these very soon.

The items that guarantee success are called coalescent wards and are worth much more than anything you stand to lose from a failed upgrade of these enchants, or honestly, just replacing them with higher ranked ones without going though the upgrade rigmarole. Even preservation wards may sometimes be worth more than just running the risk of losing your reagents. It's usually worth taking a few minutes to compare prices.

urabask · August 2015

beckylunatic wrote: »

saskdaddy wrote: »

My enchantments are mostly level 5, with two level 6 and one level 7. They are all ready to be upgraded to the next level, but I don't have any of those items that guarantee a success, I will be buying some of these very soon.

The items that guarantee success are called coalescent wards and are worth much more than anything you stand to lose from a failed upgrade of these enchants, or honestly, just replacing them with higher ranked ones without going though the upgrade rigmarole. Even preservation wards may sometimes be worth more than just running the risk of losing your reagents. It's usually worth taking a few minutes to compare prices.

Don't even have to really check. If any of the reagents are purple (rank 7+ enchants, greater marks of anything) you need to use a preservation ward. You can make an enchant worth ~400k AD for free with a coalescent ward so any time you'd use more than 400k AD worth of preservation wards use a coalescent ward.

saskdaddy · August 2015

Don't know if I did any better or worse in my 2nd night of PvP. My team won 4/4 matches, but I was not instrumental in any of the wins.
I did come across some people I know badly out geared me. I could barely do any damage even with my best skills, while they were taking 80% or more of my HP with a single attack.
I also have a question... I had one match where I fought another TR. He repeatedly used a skill that put a red circle around me that made it next to impossible to move, and I couldn't attack back. He put down this circle than ran away, and I could nothing but take massive damage. I've read through my skills, and I don't see anything that describes this... anyone know?

Unknown · August 2015

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saskdaddy · August 2015

Really? Because my smokebomb does not do what this one did. Mine puts out a cloud of purple smoke, there's no red circle, so I assume the red circle is what it looks like on the receiving end.
While I was inside the red circle, none of my skills were accessible, and the damage I was taking was unreal, but I have seen people using skills inside the range of my smokebomb and am wondering how.
I don't understand how his smokebomb can be so powerful, he did not have that much better gear than I do, because I did manage to kill him a time or two. None of his other skills hit me anywhere near as hard as that red circle. I was completely helpless inside of it, my movement was slowed to almost nothing, and I had access to none of my skills. I don't see other players having that same problem inside of my smokebomb... how come?

beckylunatic · August 2015

Smoke Bomb dazes opponents, so nobody should be able to use powers while inside it unless they are immune to control effects from using a power or artifact.

As stated, the slow effect only happens if cast from stealth, which would also make every tick of damage from the smoke crit. Smoke Bomb can do a surprising amount of damage if you don't get out of it.

Out of curiosity, is there any chance he hit you with Courage Breaker first? It's a daily power that also reduces movement speed.

drkbodhi · August 2015

The CB-SB combo has been brutal for me... even if they have a CC immunity they are stuck... taking damage.

Unknown · August 2015

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saskdaddy · August 2015

beckylunatic wrote: »

Smoke Bomb dazes opponents, so nobody should be able to use powers while inside it unless they are immune to control effects from using a power or artifact.

As stated, the slow effect only happens if cast from stealth, which would also make every tick of damage from the smoke crit. Smoke Bomb can do a surprising amount of damage if you don't get out of it.

Out of curiosity, is there any chance he hit you with Courage Breaker first? It's a daily power that also reduces movement speed.

He was spamming it, so I don't believe there was any daily involved. The reason it surprised me to learn it was smokebomb, is because I also use it in my rotation, and it sure wasn't having the same effect on him that it was having on me. He was still able to attack me, while all my attacts were unavailable. I'm certain I used it in stealth as well, but I will pay closer attention tonight and see what happens.

I will also make sure to use Courage Breaker whenever it is available before smokebomb.

beckylunatic · August 2015

If he could attack you, he was probably using Impossible To Catch.

kweassa · August 2015

Definitely Grim gear

drkbodhi wrote: »

The CB-SB combo has been brutal for me... even if they have a CC immunity they are stuck... taking damage.

Bud, VP breaks you free from CB.

If you're a WK, don't leave home without it your daily dose of VP.

kweassa · August 2015

saskdaddy wrote: »

Really? Because my smokebomb does not do what this one did. Mine puts out a cloud of purple smoke, there's no red circle, so I assume the red circle is what it looks like on the receiving end.
While I was inside the red circle, none of my skills were accessible, and the damage I was taking was unreal, but I have seen people using skills inside the range of my smokebomb and am wondering how.
I don't understand how his smokebomb can be so powerful, he did not have that much better gear than I do, because I did manage to kill him a time or two. None of his other skills hit me anywhere near as hard as that red circle. I was completely helpless inside of it, my movement was slowed to almost nothing, and I had access to none of my skills. I don't see other players having that same problem inside of my smokebomb... how come?

Often, in an attempt to ridicule the typical behavior of TR players who rely on SB blindly, and have this idiotic habit of spamming it every chance they get, in my case I would fully anticipate the incoming SB, and then as it is laid out I'd activate Oghma's, lay out my smokebomb right on top of their smokebomb, and slap them around inside the smokebomb radius while they are confused.

Also, 3rd strike of DF gives you immunity to CCs during the duration, so if you anticipate the timing right, you can hopefully time it so that the other TR mistakenly spams the SB while your own DF strikes are activating. You avoid being dazed by SB and still smack the TR inside it, and then simply dodge out of the way when DF is about to be finished. This is something that also works against HRs in a last-resort manner where you have no way to get out of the roots, so hopefully, for any reason if the HR gives you just enough time to activate DF, then you swing away and activate the 3rd set of strikes to ignore further roots and roll away into safety.

There are any number of reasons as to why your movement might have been slowed, and I've got a few good guesses as to why. Could have been bilethorn, or could have been a WK TR you've met, in which case DF is now the WK specialty move to those who know how to synergize this power with the paragon.

I don't smell anything particularly abnormal.

saskdaddy · August 2015

I went to the 10 vs 10 last night for the first time, and it was... painful. It become obvious quite quickly that people playing that are far better geared than I. I was doing very little damage and taking huge damage on almost everyone I faced... kind of frustrating, but meh.

OK, so PvP wise, what gear should I be after and how exactly do I go about getting it? If it matters, I think I am going to try the Scoundrel type of build, once I respec.

Unknown · August 2015

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PvP - My First Foray (and opinions)

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