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grumble grumble 60-70 changes
wulfenblu
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
hey guys, somewhat new account here. yes, this is exactly what the topic suggest, a grumble. I haven't played them yet on this account, but I see this change, in my opinion, as potentially boring for the higher levels...I don't want to feel the need to only play until level 65 or so, then have to wipe the character and start over out of boredom/falling asleep before 1 a.m.
I noticed on the last accounts I had(I haven't been kicked off the games or anything, just switched browsers and such a few times and had issues with getting back into the old accounts), that when I got to level 60, almost immediately, I regained interest in playing...as frequently as life would allow, and even put stuff on hold in life(such as my gf) to play, because of the heightened challenge. While many of the baddies did need some nerfing, I wouldn't have dropped their buffs by quite that much, personally. I'll be able to provide more accurate feedback once I reach that point again on this account.
before... from about lvl 37-58, the game became almost boring aside from checking in on professions, occasionally going through mobs like a hot knife through butter, and some of the foundry quests(those that weren't utterly broken) were quiter interesting. once I hit 60, almost every class I've played(except cleric, they're hard all the way through), has suddenly become challenging enough to make me want to beat the challenges.
Now I realize, a lot of folks were complaining about the 60+ stuff being way too hard. But what's the point of running though a game without having a challenge? If you were able to beat the challenges after a few tries(and deaths, usually) without the baddies being nerfed, then why is it too hard? I don't see it as such, I see it as part of playing a game(except when there is no way the person can figure out how to beat that part of the game, no matter what approach they try, with their current character)
Otherwise, it's just more grinding, which I thought was part of what neverwinter -wasn't- about? drop the grinding down a bit and keep the quests interesting? yes, storylines are almost all awesome. yes, many of the early level quests are challenging but not discouraging. If anything though, I'd personally like to see a -slight- increase in difficulty on many of the quests from lvl 40-55, and possible a bit of a nerfing on the epic level quests? not near the dropping of the entire buff on baddie hp, or the major reduction in their damage, but half of that nerf for those that couldn't find a way to beat the quests at all?
I play games like NW for the challenge factor, not just the graphics and awesomeness of killing lots of things. If I wanted something I could almost autopilot, I'd play one of the phone games I used to when I was bored and waiting on a ride, call, or whatever.
Props on the devs, though, for doing their best to please the masses. That's what customer service is all about I guess.
just an opinion, but it is mine, after all.
Cheers,
-Wolfy
(wulfenblu)
coments and debate are more than welcome. It may add interest to my time between playing, once I start on this nw account.
I noticed on the last accounts I had(I haven't been kicked off the games or anything, just switched browsers and such a few times and had issues with getting back into the old accounts), that when I got to level 60, almost immediately, I regained interest in playing...as frequently as life would allow, and even put stuff on hold in life(such as my gf) to play, because of the heightened challenge. While many of the baddies did need some nerfing, I wouldn't have dropped their buffs by quite that much, personally. I'll be able to provide more accurate feedback once I reach that point again on this account.
before... from about lvl 37-58, the game became almost boring aside from checking in on professions, occasionally going through mobs like a hot knife through butter, and some of the foundry quests(those that weren't utterly broken) were quiter interesting. once I hit 60, almost every class I've played(except cleric, they're hard all the way through), has suddenly become challenging enough to make me want to beat the challenges.
Now I realize, a lot of folks were complaining about the 60+ stuff being way too hard. But what's the point of running though a game without having a challenge? If you were able to beat the challenges after a few tries(and deaths, usually) without the baddies being nerfed, then why is it too hard? I don't see it as such, I see it as part of playing a game(except when there is no way the person can figure out how to beat that part of the game, no matter what approach they try, with their current character)
Otherwise, it's just more grinding, which I thought was part of what neverwinter -wasn't- about? drop the grinding down a bit and keep the quests interesting? yes, storylines are almost all awesome. yes, many of the early level quests are challenging but not discouraging. If anything though, I'd personally like to see a -slight- increase in difficulty on many of the quests from lvl 40-55, and possible a bit of a nerfing on the epic level quests? not near the dropping of the entire buff on baddie hp, or the major reduction in their damage, but half of that nerf for those that couldn't find a way to beat the quests at all?
I play games like NW for the challenge factor, not just the graphics and awesomeness of killing lots of things. If I wanted something I could almost autopilot, I'd play one of the phone games I used to when I was bored and waiting on a ride, call, or whatever.
Props on the devs, though, for doing their best to please the masses. That's what customer service is all about I guess.
just an opinion, but it is mine, after all.
Cheers,
-Wolfy
(wulfenblu)
coments and debate are more than welcome. It may add interest to my time between playing, once I start on this nw account.
pfft!
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
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Or start your very own personal guild, and then build your own Stronghold... that should also be a nice challenge.
So, yeah-quite challenging.
I second that you want challenge you can do it really cheap just don't upgrade your equipment and you will have all the challenge you want. Or better yet stay in your starter gear.
Yes, those attacks should hurt, but there should be a chance to survive them too.
It's not a challenge if i'm not doing my very best with everything i got(including the best gear i can get).
Although i believe they should continue on making 60-70 easier, i'm really annoyed by what you think will be a good solution the problem, since by that logic, if you want to NOT have a challenge, stop lvling at 60 then create a new toon to lvl from 1-60.
yes, that would add challenge, but that would also nuke half of my definition of 'fun' gameplay. I'm not generally much of a social player, tending to prefer solo except as necessary. This is why I frequently nerf my own equipment, and swiotch to weaker, less familiar to me powers, when playing. makes stuff challenging without having to constantly deal with the people. Usually even wipe zone, trade, and say from my social and default chat tabs, and have the log and one other for zone and such that I label 'pure drivel'. This post was, honestly, to get a little of that 'drivel' going, for entertainment purposes.
that is exactly where my problem comes in. It's also not fun to just wipe the character once stuff gets boring again, and have to leave the storyline unfinished every time. maybe a character that I use for the uber-nerfed new 60+ story and baddies, equipped with the worst I can manage? Methinks so...
next few were griping about the 60+ content insta-killing them. then they don't know how to build a character that can take those hits, or they don't know how to use what they have built properly. It'd be called a balanced character build. Where you put that balance, is up to you. My builds, generally, don't do disgusting damage based on their ability scores and equipment, but mostly on their powers. The reason it becomes chalenging again, is because I do survive, and have to keep fighting and fighting, instead of run-by and go to the next one.
another said something of "if you want a challenge, stay weak or better yet in starter gear" yeah. after this nerf, it will likely be possible to beat the baddies with just the starter gear... but the starter gear also looks like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.(Yes, you can call me a hypocrite, but as I said, I don't play -just- for the graphics, though that is a big part of why I was willing to download a 10 gig game, plus a few gigs worth of patches, to begin with, obviously.)...so.
I saved this one for last, because I actually considering completely disregarding it. My view is a minority one, yes? so you're saying that people who play these massive games(which on slower connections can take more than a few hours for the initial download, and for those with the bare minimum capable connection, up to most of a day), don't want gameplay? they just want to be able to nuke through the entire game in a week, then have nothing to do but foundry quests, prestige and glory point accumulation, get pretty equipment, and professions? unless it's actually making them real world money or some other type of important advancement, what would be the point? to just sit in front of a pc(or laptop if you have one that good), and boredly look at the pretty pictures? That's what they make video sites of all types for... just saying.
bottom line, in my opinion:
why play a game, if there is no reward for work? to be instantly a bada$$, all that something for nothing bunk that it seems society wants these days, and to just chitchat? social apps have a lot of games that allow all of that, many with nearly as good of graphics, in a browser and with a minimal download, also for free. I'm a minority because I believe in a game that continues to be fun for more than a week? wow. everyone on this planet must have worse ADD than I do... anyway, off of this one for a bit, going to actually play on this account(yes, I just downloaded nw yesterday, first time in a few months, because I did like the game then, and hopefully will still like it)
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
The view that nerfing the difficulty is a bad thing is a minority view. That's the only thing I'm saying; please stop placing words in my mouth simply because it's easier to argue against a straw man :P
For myself, when I was leveling to 70, I found the game to be punishingly boring. It took too long to kill enemies, it was difficult to solo some basic quests, and just playing the game was an exercise in frustration. I can sympathize with concerns of the game being too easy and thus boring, but prior to mod 6 (well, mod 5 to an extent), that's just how the game had been designed; designed in such a way as to be appealing to casual players.
I like NWO because I can pick it up, play a little bit without a whole lot of frustration, and then move on to something else. It's not a huge time sink for me to be part of the game. That's what NWO used to excel at, and it's something that a lot of games fail at.
Put another way, of course the game is too easy. That's the point!
About the level 60-70 content, try epic dungeons and skirmishes for another enlightening experience. After a few runs, you should understand, why a lot of players react a bit touchy on this subject.
1-70 is just like an intro into the game and D&D Neverwinter in general. You dont wanna turn away potential players/customers during your intro.
Like others have mentioned in other threads; I didnt want to say anything in the official thread, but it crossed my mind prior to my post there; the change also has to do with the xbox community.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I had the exact opposite problems. too easy before, the buff made it challenging(though I admit, more of a grind, but part of classic rpg play, no?), but now the buffs are going almost completely away. only a few minor ones remain, and with the newer equipment...idk. it's either, imho, nerf my gear, or burn through like wildfire. I'll see, if I get to that point without sleeping before 1 a.m. I only stay up that late because I have insomnia issues, unless I play a game that is so boring with it's ease that it lulls me to sleep.
really? a gf? they're simple, with the right build, even at the 60-70 range. until the buff... then again, yes, it became too difficult with them(and clerics, always had a hard time with clerics).. refer to last response in this comment for my opinion, if you wish. and the level cap, yes, have to agree, that is always fun to go through, no matter what, with being challenging and pretty good content, almost no matter what class is used.
thanks for the input mates. I'll dig a bit further into it, one of these days... dealing with woman problems though, so...likely be a few days before I even start on this account, unfortunately(almost did a few times, but she called, lo and behold, each time I got the character created. go figure)
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
Which strategy game do you play?
I know you said you dont want to spend money, but a couple suggestions that do cost money but are very fun/time consuming/can be challenging are the Paradox games (Victoria, Europa Universalis). I play Europa Universalis IV and love it.
But again I understand what you are looking for, but 1-70 wasnt and shouldnt be the difficulty they adjusted it to. They made a mistake honestly, and now are attempting to recourse to minimize the affect on the other platform.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
you, sir, are mistaken. I'm a noob as of late, but played frequently back in the day. So you're probably right on this particular point, as I don't have a lot of experience past the middle of mod 5, messed around with 6 and...honestly... got a life outside of gaming, due to boredom with the stuff before the 60+ gaming in it. So yes, on current NW play, I'm a semi-noob.
Just one more point... have you ever evaluated humans and their strong taste for that which frustrates themselves, as wel as other humans? Things like figuring stuff out... arguing... things like that? Perhaps your own desire for me to point out your flawed logic in using the term 'shut up' in reference to another human? Again, it is a plea for attention and to make your ego larger. So, when one human says to another to 'shut up', what they're really saying is 'keep talking so that one of us will win'. this is known, I believe, almost by definition, a desire for challenge. intriguing concept, I will not heed your request for a debate regarding those levels, and will bow to your so far superior knowledge and desire to have your ego stroked. In appeasing this ego stroking, I will also grant you the very thing you ask for, but clearly have no insight into the psychology of the human animal in regards to. Nice ego. If it needs that much boosting, I'm more than happy to oblige. I will now do exactly as requested, shutting up in reference to you.
Toodles.
-Wolfy
next one:
yeah DS is... gotta admit, almost too hard without looking up a quarter of the game worth of guides, imho. Difference between challenging and impossible, is having to look into a guide not published by the manufacturer. PoE is okay, had fun with it for awhile, but like a lot of others... just yeah. got bored.
My all time favorite is tribal wars(not 2...that's back to the same as all the other p2w mmorts genre), for mmorts. They only allow a full completion of a task if it's under ten minutes. all other bonuses are usually 50% time cut, and the premium points are expensive enough that it makes the game nearly impossible to get a massive advantage over everyone else unless you have really deep pockets. that's why I like it so much, it's a much more level playing field(dependent on which world you're playing, different world settings for each).
Paradox series I haven't touched yet.
So yes, I'm looking for what almost doesn't exist(challenging and not entirely p2w but with smaller boosts for the paying players), though regenerde gave me a couple of titlesof mmorpgs to check out, both b2p and f2p, a couple of which were old standby's from back in my frequent gaming days.
either that, or something that is straight up buy the game, one flat price, and everyone is on equal ground at the start, no major bonuses for having an infinitely deep pocket. Ya know? Something akin to a -game- instead of flat out capitalism. Like a lot of xbox and ps2 games used to be(and many still are), but for pc, and without having malware coming in the browser page or game download. There's not enough of them out there for PC, in either end of the spectrum, that I've found, and obviously none that I've found at all to meet my wishes for a 'perfect' mmorpg, rts, fps,or tbs. just one in any of those genres(except fps. always have stunk at those) available for pc, fair to play, whether paying for the initial game or not?
Economic equality, challenge, and mmo qualities in one game... NW had it right. They started <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stuff up though in more recent years. Now they're going for fair but no challenge... wrong turn imho. oh well, can't always get what you want unless you make it yourself, right?
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
I like you. Some people would think that is a bad thing...
lmao yeah, most would. you should see some of the crazy schnikies conversations I have with my close friends, you think this is bad...
okay, this is off topic, soooo... scoot over to inbox or whatever. I'm off to look into some resources regenerde supplied(that I'm sure most of you folks already knew about, being currentl;y avid gamers) that I had mostly forgotten about.
Cheers,
-Wolfy
My awesomeness comes not from studying psychology.
It comes from being studied by therapists for decades.
If, we as humans, do not have direct and indirect stimulus that will have an effect on our existence... why in the hell are we choosing to live?
Being the person that I am... I know that there are 3 kinds of people in this World:
- 'People who like to suffer'
- 'People who seek the end of suffering'
- 'People who help others end their suffering'
There are a lot more of the first type of person than the other 2 combined. Finding myself among those on smallest group on that list... I am driven to enlighten and guide.For those that have been here for a long while, there was a trend for awhile that thought leveling was too fast and they wanted to be able to "turn off" or otherwise curtail XP gain while they did some stuff. Well, after a long while the devs - in a mostly unrelated set of changes to the old sentiment - adjusted various XP requirements and gains. It generated (and still is) generating complaints and flak.
The Mod 6 difficulty increase had the people, who complained about the pre-mod6 state, happy. The difficulty increase though had a very large negative response from others who did not think this way. The devs tested and decided to scale it back. A large group of people are happy and the group that liked the the mod 6 changes are now on the offensive.
Cryptic's developers can't win and I give them a small amount of pity for the fact that no matter what, some group of players will be going at them for something.
Now, I've never really agreed with @drkbodhi in anything, but I will say that he/she/it missed a couple of types of people in that list. There are even smaller groups below the #3:
4. 'People that enjoy the suffering of others'
5. 'People who are blessed*'
*Blessed does not mean they necessarily are 'born with everything' or such. There are those types in here as well, but there are people who can and do work hard for everything they've gotten. The blessed refers to the fact that they had the 'good fortune' to have the opportunity, the luck to be 'in the right place at the right time', or the simple fact that random chance seems to favor them more than others.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
Without using the AH, "No crafted items" is pretty redundant, because the only half-decent crafted items are things you're likely going to need dragon eggs for.
I think this may be the wrong genre for you, honestly.
Not meaning to be a prick or anything, but MMORPGs are designed in such a way as to keep people playing over long periods of time to earn increasing rewards. The point of the game is not to have individual encounters be extremely challenging, but instead the accumulation of wealth/power.
Now, there are certainly challenges in much of the group and pvp content. I think that it makes sense than 60-70 are *relatively* easy, with few roadblocks or challenges. Because, after all, the real game starts after level 70, not before it. Everything else is essentially just an extended tutorial.
Also. Story, lore, scenery. Those are the 3 things that defines lvl 1-60 more than anything. With that said I'm getting a feeling that OP just rushed through this content with little to no care for those 3 things due to him stating he would get sleepy from the lack of challenge. Had OP felt some sort of excitement over those 3 things he woulda wanna see more, read more and so on.
There are people like that though with little care for lore and such and that's ok. As for myself (my point of view), I never got sleepy going through this content because I enjoyed the scenery, lore, story, everything, quite honestly because of everything the game has offered, 1-60 in this game is the best leveling experience I've ever had, and I've played hundreds of mmo's. Also I still don't fall asleep during 1-60 even if its not challenging, although there's a different reason for that now though as making a new char to me now is like a breath of fresh air from all the time spent playing on my main.
Also I feel that 1-60 as it is is an excellent "tutorial" to prepare you for when sh*t gets real at 61+. You get plenty of time to work on perfecting your class and utilizing mechanics to It's full potential. Though that depends solely on YOU. What I mean by this is either you're the person who perfects a certain skill rotation and learn to play around this to the full potential, or your'e the person who just hit keys with no thought put into it. Either you're the person that that master using block/sprint/dodge rolls to avoid as much damage as possible or you're the person that just stands there and face tank while you kill. Now which one are you?
For these reasons I feel that the 1-60 challenge is just fine where It's at and shouldn't be touched.