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Question Regarding Influence
instynctive
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
What is the reset/cooldown on Influence drops?
It doesn't seem to reset when everything else does.. is this intended, or an oversight?
It doesn't seem to reset when everything else does.. is this intended, or an oversight?
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Post edited by zebular on
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Best Answers
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drkbodhi
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
I was told that it is 20 hours. We are able to get 120 Influence per character every 20 hours. Each character and player have different CDs... based on when they first completed a HE.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OPLeadership Council of Civil AnarchySYNERGY Alliance0 -
Mantara
Member Posts: 22 Arc User
I dont understand the depreciationg returns on influence. Everything about these insane structure costs and miniscule rewards makes me depressed. I was excited when I say the lumber mill cost, It took 2 days to grind out the materials which was perfect for the expected reward. What I dont understand is why they didnt keep that same structure for ALL BASE LEVEL BUILDINGS? The requirements for the second building are more than 100 times greater than the first. If they realy wanted to be inclusive to all guild sizes base building costs should be much lower and leveling them up should cost more. It will be 6 months or more before we will have the curency stockpile to build a store and we will most likely never see a boon.0 -
beckylunatic
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
I find the individual cooldown on Influence really awkward to work around. I play a bunch of characters and not always at the same time or in the same order. So I pick up one and go run a little heroic and get a drop or 5 or 10 or nothing at all, because they haven't hit their reset. Ok, I grab somebody else and play with them and go back to the first character again later. The next day, who's off their cooldown and who got bumped even later? Eventually, I have characters that can't earn Influence at all that day because I have to sleep at some point, plus I've wasted time finding out who was still cooling down. Why not make it the same global daily quest reset as pretty much everything else? Then we just know we're good to go and don't need to manage our alts using a spreadsheet (especially since the reasoning for making Strongholds require lots of manual tending was to make it less like a spreadsheet). The worst thing that can happen is people playing right around the reset time can get two day's worth of Influence in quick succession, but they still have to wait for the next reset for more.
Either or both of the limitations on Influence drops/high Influence requirements for starter buildings are pretty grueling. I know that boon buildings ultimately add more quests for vouchers that can give Influence, but you need *so much* Influence to even think about making these, it seems rather Sisyphean. Requirements that are meant to bottleneck large guilds really do place an almost insurmountable obstacle in the way of small ones. It's dismaying, and it does make it feel like we can't really participate.
Tagging @asterdahl to this thread because I think it's important feedback. My habits on preview were to quickly get on and run a few missions after I was done regular gaming for the night, using a single character, so I wasn't aware of these mechanics during testing.0 -
ironzerg79
Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
I'd rather see a set influence gained per HE in the Stronghold zone, then some sort of timer.
If guilds want to go nuts and have HE grind parties, I think that's great. It encourages people to play. Right now, it's sort of discouraging because you knock out your quests and hit the Influence limit after a few HEs, so it's not super motivating to keep rolling.
I say give small HE events 5 influence, medium ones 15 and big ones 50. I want to make sure the numbers are there so it's more worthwhile to tackle the big ones if they're up, but not make people totally ignore the small ones. I don't want to see another IWD situation though with the opposite, where the train just runs past big ones and grinds the small ones all day long."Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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Answers
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
My GWF got 30, 15, 10 and 5.
My DC just got 60 and 30. Two other members of my non-partied party (seems to be more equipment drops if we aren't partied) also got only 60 and 30. We ran 6 HEs (mostly "medium", but a couple "easy" ones.. the drops came from the "easy" ones.)
But... I'm not gonna jump up and down and scream and holler and threaten to ragequit.. just gonna keep grinding and hope for the best.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
I disagree with your idea, Ironzerg -- because it will penalize small guilds and players who play off-hours from most of their guildmates, as well as almost force lengthy gameplay doing nothing but HEs.
Right now, almost any class can solo 3 of the small HEs, and get the 10 adventurer's shards and 105 influence in about 20 minutes.
With your idea, they would only be bringing in 15 influence. To get the same amount of influence they'd have to run 18 more HEs, which would be a ridiculous extension of time and effort.
*120 Influence (60+30+15+10+5).
Unless, of course, the game decides that you only get 90 for the day. Or 60. Or 5 (which happened to my partner).
But, I do agree that @ironzerg79 is on the right path. The bigger the heroic, the more the reward. To prevent any sort of "penalty" for "small guilds and players who play off-hours", reward 40 Influence to each of the 3 HEs for the quest.. or better yet, just add 120 Influence as part of the quest rewards.
Anything after that, however... 60 for 15+, 30 for 10+ and 15 for 5+.
Crunching some numbers (man, I hate mathing)...
Option One:
Reward 120 Influence for the HE quest. Assuming 3 5+ HEs every 20 minutes. That works out to be 135 Influence per hour (with my numbers above). If someone were to do that for a solid day, that would still be ~1/10 of what's required for a Level 2 Guild Hall.
Option Two:
Keep the amount of Influence per character per day at 120 (may as well just make it a part of the reward for the HE quest). Drop a zero off the end of the required Influence.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
To explain this a little bit, a big system like Strongholds needs to have certain elements which progress at a predictable rate. If for instance, influence did not diminish, it would then have to be doled out in extremely small amounts to account for the fact that it could be obtained infinitely. In this way, influence was designed to make it feel good to log in and knock out a few heroic encounters in your guild's stronghold.
However, we are aware that influence is creating a bottleneck for many guilds. We are also aware that many of you feel that running heroic encounters after influence is capped for the day is not worthwhile, but that you'd like to keep running heroic encounters in your stronghold. We've also noted concerns with the reset timer not being readily communicated.
While I can't promise anything for certain at this point, we are actively investigating these concerns.
It does feel good. Assuming it's rewarded. A lot of my guild members aren't getting the CTRL+F at the end of a Heroic, let alone Influence. If they go through an entire Heroic, and don't get a CTRL+F, the next Heroic, assuming they get the CTRL+F, will give only 30 Influence (assuming the Influence clock has restarted).
For every Heroic that doesn't reward a CTRL+F, that amount of Influence is "skipped".
We ran this test over several characters both partied and not partied. One of my characters sat out for two days on Heroics just to make sure that the clock had reset. He gained 50 Influence for the day (30+15+5).
And "bottleneck" isn't really an accurate term. "Cinderblock Wall" would be more appropriate. At current rate, it's going to take us 3 weeks to fulfill the Influence requirement for a Guild Hall L3, so we can build a Quarry so we can get the Stone so we can build a Marketplace L2.
Regardless.. we got the "no promises" disclaimer. No problem. We'll just keep banging things out like we always do, and hope for the best. Although, at this point, our progression is in complete limbo and it's a race to see what drops first: enough Influence to upgrade our Guild Hall, or enough stone vouchers to upgrade the Marketplace.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
You had a system in place already that resets things each day, I don't understand what would make you decide that the daily reset wasn't good enough. It limits everything else just fine, not sure why this was deemed an exception.
Make the influence drop rate consistently 120 for each char, and put in some sort of timer.
You can't make a rank 2 structure without a rank 5 guild hall. It is madness.
Neverwinter Census 2017
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A Level 4, actually.. unless I'm reading this completely wrong..
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
(Edit: Also, for some reason I thought I was replying to a post saying something about not being sure which build job would be possible first, by getting the stone from vouchers before the influence filled up.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
See folks - they do read the forums.
Communication is all we really need so thanks asterdahl
It's a trade off. There's an opportunity cost in every activity, and only so much time in a day (and thus time to earn resources, ie a hard limit) The limiting factor is always going to be time. Even if you guys offered something small, like 0 influence for small encounters, 5 for medium ones and 10 for big ones, it would still feel "worth it" for people to continue to play the game and engage in the content, while not significantly shrinking the overall time to build out the Stronghold.
And if a guild member is in the Stronghold grinding HE's for influence, he's not earning shards in dungeons or PvP. Or earning campaign treasures by doing quests in IWD, Shar, WoD, or DR. Or not earning Astral Diamonds, gold, or extra enchants and gear by doing other content.
Influence is a bottle neck, but the overall resources required is still enormous. The only difference is people can't earn influence outside the daily limit, whereas there's always mechanisms in place to earn the other currency required to upgrade Strongholds.
This is a separate issue that we are aware of and working to fix this ASAP. The minimum contribution requirements to receive rewards are being significantly adjusted. We apologize for any inconvenience caused, and any missed rewards.
This is something we're looking into, we know the current implementation leaves something to be desired. For a little insight into this, we definitely did not want to inundate everyone with even more daily quests. During module 6 we built a new system to allow for daily bonuses that reset but didn't require any player interaction with the bonus dungeon caches. (When those were released, they were originally on an 18 hour personal cooldown.) We're looking into whether we can put something similar in place for influence, or otherwise ease that experience.
As far as having an HE Influence cap goes, I don't see that it needs to be tied to a quest. Invoking rewards (new style) and AD refinement caps reset at the same time as daily missions. Players know this and can predict it, and it doesn't cause problems with situations like trying to do your Stronghold contribution questing on Friday evening and then again on Saturday morning.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The issue with the dungeon caches that appeared at their initial release was that only one player per party was receiving the cache. When this was fixed we also made an adjustment to move the caches from a personal lockout to a daily reset. It just so happens that we were able to get the daily reset without a quest functionality working around the same time we were able to fix the one per party issue. The 18 hour timer did actually function for the dungeon caches, although, as others have pointed out—it is less friendly than a global server reset.
As far as how and why influence made it in with a personal lockout: there are a number of cases in Neverwinter where a similar personal lockout is used, but they are generally less painful and/or have a significantly shorter lockout period. In this case, due to the team working on Strongholds not being familiar with the system used in the dungeon caches, and the fact that the design of influence evolved and changed throughout development, it was never moved over to a daily reset. The ball was dropped there and we are actively investigating making changes.
In regards to reports of inconsistent amounts of influence across different characters, and from day to day, we're investigating that issue as well and appreciate your patience.
Thats my two cents.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
I can live with problems...I work in IT and we have our share even at a larger company than PWE with more resources. Communication back and forth, acceptance of the problem, discussion of the problem, and then action toward resolving - this is how things get done.
+1 to the devs here/
Honestly, just knowing that you guys know and that you're working to fix it is a HUGE help. I'll be able to share this with my guild, and they will be a little less... grouchy. :-)
We really appreciate your hard work.
Dailies are fine. Well, with me, they're fine. The reason behind that is because I know that any time after 6am my time that I can go do *this* or go do *that*. There's no guesswork, or running around behind the Keep to slaughter spiders to see if my timer has reset...
It may be because I'm so structurally-minded though. Others may enjoy the chaos.
Regardless... the team is certainly doing right by the game and the players this mod. Thank you!
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
A +100 influence daily quest,
to complete an 'eligible' 15min foundry,
given by the stronghold 'scribe',
who also lists foundries created by your guildies.
please. ;D
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.