drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
It makes me wonder if they are looking at ways to get back the millions of Zen and AD that people created out of nothing during the early stages of the game. Yes... I said millions of Zen.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Oh good lord, that's *it* for people with desk jobs.
I've never even used a browser script. All by hand.
Edit: Again and again, you (the royal you) punish legit players in the name of combating bots. I don't even know what to say anymore.
100% agree.
This change means I can only run one or two tasks on my three characters per week. After all the other ways they've made playing the game more difficult/tedious with limited AD revenue, but now this: what are legit players supposed to do? Can anyone tell us what the devs' picture is on AD generation? How do they think legit players putting in a few hours a week of in game time, with no other source of AD, are supposed to afford the reagents (let alone anything else) needed to progress your character - the prices of which they have absolute control over? How are legit players supposed to produce anything near the AD for a bunch of RNGCubes? How are we supposed to get 100K AD for a GMoP? 250K AD for stronghold structures? What is the revenue stream in place now that made this sound like a good idea?
If you don't want working-stiffs to play this game, just say so - don't talk down to us about fighting bots. Botters won't even notice this change in their AD generators, they will only notice the massive marketing boost you just gave them. This ensures that more of the AD in the economy is controlled by bots and through that AD, the AH, the few non-binding gear items, the enchants... basically, the foundations of the economy are getting handed over to those bots that sign in and rotate professions. Legit players are going to be poor, under geared, and tempted to buy from the botters, just so they can get the gear needed to do the 60-70 grind, let alone end-game enchants and gear.
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feralplatypusMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 36Arc User
You know what's the saddest thing? That they really don't care what we all write here. We can provide as much feedback as we want. It doesn't matter.
I'm afraid I have to lend my voice to the general uproar about the changes in Leadership. Since I absolutely detest reading comments where people devolve into a frothing range instead of offering constructive criticism, I'll attempt to restrain myself from doing just that.
I am not a botter.
I am also not a person who can log into your game engine on a whim.
I am sure there are many other people just like me. People with jobs, for example. If you haven't maxed out Leadership on all your characters, being able to log onto the gateway for just a few minutes to roll over professions is incredibly useful. Even if you have, sometimes people can't time their day to get out of work precisely when their professions roll over. This will hit people working multiple jobs particularly hard. There's nothing more frustrating than heading out the door with half an hour left to go on some Leadership task, knowing that most of the next 4-8 hrs are going to be wasted. Being able to log into the gateway from a phone or from a work computer allows players to gain a little AD, which makes them happier which inclines them more to play your game. The players win, the developers win. Also, I'm just going to put this out there: I'm more willing to spend money on a game I enjoy where I have a good relationship with the developers. If I'm grumpy at a game, I'm less likely to play it, which means I don't really have a cause to spend money on it. And if I feel like the developers are taking ham-handed action instead of looking out for the actual needs and desires of the player-base, why would I want to give them real money by buying zen?
I know you mean well. And I'm really excited for Strongholds; what I've seen in the test-shard looks great. Please don't alienate me now. This might cut back on botters, it might not; I've never done botting so I have no idea how easy this would be to get around. But I do know the people it'll hurt most are the ones who've been putting effort into your game when they didn't have to. And those are precisely the sort of people you should be courting.
... You couldn't have just integrated a Capcha in the Gateway?
Please consider that as a long-term solution.
I'd agree with this, otherwise there is no point to the Gateway for me anymore as I mainly use it for Leadership. It's pretty clear from all the other posts here that this is a bad idea, along with so many other things that have been done to the game as of late to kill of more and more of the legit playerbase. I'll be interested in seeing what happens with the developer blog for sure.
I've been a playing since the beta... but how much longer?
pity.... that a simple change like u cant set leadership on gate, makes every1 talk about it when bugs that really kill the game are not even mention, in case no 1 realises dungeons are near impossible cuz they are all bugged, every1 its taking double dmg for no reason, and dead it happens every 3-4min.
oh now i have to log in game to do my jobs, all goes crazy, every1 getting 1 shoot with bugs its ok.
in any case, do 16-20h jobs log 1 time per day set new jobs, its easy with 4-5 chars like normal player have, its hard if u have 50 (not my problem), there's 8 classes so why have 50 chars.
I would think just monitoring PE chat zones, even just filtering for the words "auction tax" and "fast speedy delivery" would grab most of the accounts in a matter of minutes.
I have been playing this game for nearly two years and they have NEVER made the slightest effort to use the chat zone data to hunt down the botters. Not once! And it is BY FAR the most obvious attack point. Instead, they make stupid decisions like this one.
That would mean someone from Cryptic might actually have to log into the game, and maybe even play it a little bit *gasp*
I have been playing this game for nearly two years and they have NEVER made the slightest effort to use the chat zone data to hunt down the botters. Not once!
This is a brutally ignorant statement. How do you know that they haven't tried? The problem is much greater than what appears on the surface of "zone chat". Please don't make really stupid broad sweeping statements. Zone chat has basically little or nothing to do with the game's bot problems.
For me, I have never been on Gateway nor do I even know how to access it (even after 2 years of playing NWO). But anything that prevents players from getting just a little bit ahead is ALWAYS a bad idea.
I play NWO on and off all day, as I work from home, so I have pleanty of time to log in and do whatever. This is proof POSITIVE that no one that has any say or development in this game actually plays it. Just spend 30 secs in Protectors Enclave and you will KNOW who the bots are as the Chat box is JAMMED FULL OF BOTS advertising Websites, so much so that I, as my entire guild have turned off chat for Zone and LFG.
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Some of the spammers are running hundreds of accounts I am sure, and just think of the revenue you would create from a spammer that has to re-create 20-30- even 50 accounts per day. $$$$$$
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I have been playing this game for nearly two years and they have NEVER made the slightest effort to use the chat zone data to hunt down the botters. Not once!
This is a brutally ignorant statement. How do you know that they haven't tried? The problem is much greater than what appears on the surface of "zone chat". Please don't make really stupid broad sweeping statements. Zone chat has basically little or nothing to do with the game's bot problems.
I agree...
Bots first took over black lake, then domination, then sharandar, now... the world!
They need to be hit hard.
Mind you all the items the bots bring to the game did cause me to spend more zen to convert to astral to buy their bot items to upgrade my gear. (come on like a guys name on auction house repeating 100 times with x99 of items was made legit)
If the bots were all gone, upgrading our gears would have taken so much longer.
Zen purchases for blood rubies would have been much higher.
The company would have made more money in the long run.
The power creep that is killing potential new players would not have existed as much.
The wall of OMG I CANT WIN IN PVP would not have existed as it does not for all lower lvl players 60 and under.
Something has to be done... It would be nice if they asked us what we wanted instead of just hammering us in the face.
Some of you will say, "At least we can still do professions in game". This is not the point.
The point is we suffer because of bots, in every way possible.
Perhaps we can stop the botters by avoiding names in the auction house that we feel are tied to botters.
Then again, everyone wants the cheapest items so I doubt that will happen.
It's a vicious cycle... never ending..... (pulls hair out)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Living proof that the demographic of this game has an average IQ of about 50...
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Living proof that the demographic of this game has an average IQ of about 50...
NO need to insult others and start a flame war..
We don't need this discussion shut down.
Our voices need to be heard.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Living proof that the demographic of this game has an average IQ of about 50...
NO need to insult others and start a flame war..
We don't need this discussion shut down.
Our voices need to be heard.
This is why knee-jerk reactions by this company happen. Poor, uninformed comments that do nothing to solve the problem and justify bad changes to the game.
Don't know why you felt offended by this, but I apologize to you then.
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Living proof that the demographic of this game has an average IQ of about 50...
Ummm... yeah. College Graduate (3.6 GPA) Tested at 132 I.Q. AND I run my OWN succussful business. Hmm. Your statement just showed yours. TY
Easy fix would have been... Gate leadership with a random numerical password every 45min when using it from gateway. A human has to be present for input... Pretty cheap and simple. They care not about botters, they use it as an excuse to remove AD development from the game. Look at rank 5 enchants, resonance stones, peridots, Unified Elements, and elemental aggregates. Tell me those guys stacking 500+ aren't botters. There's more obvious ways of spotting them, we all know that. These decisions are definitely helping no one, and not once have they changed something back based on community backlash so ive found it is just a waste of your breath.
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Living proof that the demographic of this game has an average IQ of about 50...
Ummm... yeah. College Graduate (3.6 GPA) Tested at 132 I.Q. AND I run my OWN succussful business. Hmm. Your statement just showed yours. TY
Regardless of your supposed intelligence, this is a Free To Play-game, having to pay for accounts goes against that. Furthermore, botting is prevalent even in games you have to pay for, and no matter how many "walls" you put in the way of botters, they will always find a way around it. The way I see it, the feasible way to squash botting into as close to non-existence as can be, is to develop good bot-detection and then use it to ban the culpable accounts/IPs.
But once again, I'm not tech-savvy, what would I know about how difficult it is to detect (most of the) programmed AI interference in a game like Neverwinter?
Funny thing is, they even know, that their action is hurting the players. They 'compensate' us with a double RP WE, YAY.
The new line seems to be ok, it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but here are some sweets and now shut up. If ppl keep complaining, there comes the 'we will look into it' and if the angry ungrateful mob decides to stop playing or keeps complaining, you will get a 'we understand your problems and we are working on it'.
Thing is, DONT do it in the first place. Why do you think that ppl are complaining, like that? Bc it is the last step into the wrong direction, to destroy every legit way to make a decent ammount of AD/ RP in game.
Up to Mod 5, if ppl asked me, if it is possible to begin NW and get decent gear in a reasonable ammount of time, I said yes, but dont expect to have the same gear as a beta player in one or two month.
Do they think that ppl say 'well there is no reasonable way to get RP/ AD ingame, lets spent a few thousand dollars to get good gear', really. It was ok for some ppl I know, to boost their gear with reasonable payments, but there was something to boost. Now you are either a beta player with a crapload of farmed AD, willing to pay thousands of dollars or you have a lvl 25 leadership army or you will never get decent gear (legit).
Numbers are going down and they wonder why, really? Ppl play to progress their char/ gear. Now they took every reasonable way to progress and ppl stop playing, thats it.
BTW, if there is more activity ingame after this changes its not bc there are more players, but bc there are scripted bots logging in to do leadership.
Because of bot issues, developers are, gradually, decreasing the AD based trades - many items, as armor, artifacts and so on now are picked linked to character or account, meaning you need actually play to equip and upgrade a character. On the other hand, the not linked items have, more and more, lower prices to sale... Enchantments are exceptions, and achieve high prices 'cause of this.
In a close future, I believe even "mark of potency" will be sold by Zen and/or lockbox coins (as coalescent protection) and no more by AD...
Bot is killing the Neverwinter (player to player) market.
And of course, as I have just tested, Harrowstorm remains unfixed.
Because <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players over was main priority.
Before anyone accuses me of bot armies, I have a single account with two characters, one of them not even at the level they can do professions (and my lvl 70 main)
I have been playing this game for nearly two years and they have NEVER made the slightest effort to use the chat zone data to hunt down the botters. Not once!
This is a brutally ignorant statement. How do you know that they haven't tried? The problem is much greater than what appears on the surface of "zone chat". Please don't make really stupid broad sweeping statements. Zone chat has basically little or nothing to do with the game's bot problems.
Oooh, fun! I would counter by calling you the "brutally ignorant" one, but I will allow your posts in this thread to speak for your intellect.
As for zone chat's role in the 2+ year botting problem in this game: Zone chat is basically THE reason that botters exist. It is where they hock their wares for something far more valuable than AD, RP, or Zen....cold, hard cash. Without that free advertising channel, botters in this game would be limited to a handful of fanatics bent solely on increasing their personal power in game. A problem yes, but nothing more than a nuisance in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that worries the big botters about this change is the possibility that real players will disappear.
As with many things, Cryptic decided to kill a fly with a sledgehammer....then watched helplessly as the fly quickly flew away unscathed. And - ooops! - the cat is dead! Que sera, sera.
Comments
Totally agree.. Thanks for this patch.. I would recommend to disable Gateway. This will be another "good" Cryptic solution against the bots.
100% agree.
This change means I can only run one or two tasks on my three characters per week. After all the other ways they've made playing the game more difficult/tedious with limited AD revenue, but now this: what are legit players supposed to do? Can anyone tell us what the devs' picture is on AD generation? How do they think legit players putting in a few hours a week of in game time, with no other source of AD, are supposed to afford the reagents (let alone anything else) needed to progress your character - the prices of which they have absolute control over? How are legit players supposed to produce anything near the AD for a bunch of RNGCubes? How are we supposed to get 100K AD for a GMoP? 250K AD for stronghold structures? What is the revenue stream in place now that made this sound like a good idea?
If you don't want working-stiffs to play this game, just say so - don't talk down to us about fighting bots. Botters won't even notice this change in their AD generators, they will only notice the massive marketing boost you just gave them. This ensures that more of the AD in the economy is controlled by bots and through that AD, the AH, the few non-binding gear items, the enchants... basically, the foundations of the economy are getting handed over to those bots that sign in and rotate professions. Legit players are going to be poor, under geared, and tempted to buy from the botters, just so they can get the gear needed to do the 60-70 grind, let alone end-game enchants and gear.
I am not a botter.
I am also not a person who can log into your game engine on a whim.
I am sure there are many other people just like me. People with jobs, for example. If you haven't maxed out Leadership on all your characters, being able to log onto the gateway for just a few minutes to roll over professions is incredibly useful. Even if you have, sometimes people can't time their day to get out of work precisely when their professions roll over. This will hit people working multiple jobs particularly hard. There's nothing more frustrating than heading out the door with half an hour left to go on some Leadership task, knowing that most of the next 4-8 hrs are going to be wasted. Being able to log into the gateway from a phone or from a work computer allows players to gain a little AD, which makes them happier which inclines them more to play your game. The players win, the developers win. Also, I'm just going to put this out there: I'm more willing to spend money on a game I enjoy where I have a good relationship with the developers. If I'm grumpy at a game, I'm less likely to play it, which means I don't really have a cause to spend money on it. And if I feel like the developers are taking ham-handed action instead of looking out for the actual needs and desires of the player-base, why would I want to give them real money by buying zen?
I know you mean well. And I'm really excited for Strongholds; what I've seen in the test-shard looks great. Please don't alienate me now. This might cut back on botters, it might not; I've never done botting so I have no idea how easy this would be to get around. But I do know the people it'll hurt most are the ones who've been putting effort into your game when they didn't have to. And those are precisely the sort of people you should be courting.
I'd agree with this, otherwise there is no point to the Gateway for me anymore as I mainly use it for Leadership. It's pretty clear from all the other posts here that this is a bad idea, along with so many other things that have been done to the game as of late to kill of more and more of the legit playerbase. I'll be interested in seeing what happens with the developer blog for sure.
I've been a playing since the beta... but how much longer?
bug report:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1191855/gfs-and-tank-palas-dr-bugs-it-happen-to-dps-classes-also
pics, 1 run of Kessel's bug happen more than 10 times:
https://plus.google.com/u/2/116876382499668835510/posts/YAgZvUaFPtp?pid=6174103859366515650&oid=116876382499668835510
oh now i have to log in game to do my jobs, all goes crazy, every1 getting 1 shoot with bugs its ok.
in any case, do 16-20h jobs log 1 time per day set new jobs, its easy with 4-5 chars like normal player have, its hard if u have 50 (not my problem), there's 8 classes so why have 50 chars.
That would mean someone from Cryptic might actually have to log into the game, and maybe even play it a little bit *gasp*
The best solution vs bots is ban them forever so people see that they do the crime they never play again!
If you think disabling the gateway is a solution then you should just amputate everything that bots have a hand in.. i.e. the entire game!
This is a brutally ignorant statement. How do you know that they haven't tried? The problem is much greater than what appears on the surface of "zone chat". Please don't make really stupid broad sweeping statements. Zone chat has basically little or nothing to do with the game's bot problems.
I play NWO on and off all day, as I work from home, so I have pleanty of time to log in and do whatever. This is proof POSITIVE that no one that has any say or development in this game actually plays it. Just spend 30 secs in Protectors Enclave and you will KNOW who the bots are as the Chat box is JAMMED FULL OF BOTS advertising Websites, so much so that I, as my entire guild have turned off chat for Zone and LFG.
You want to stop the Bots...
1.) Charge $5.00/$10.00/$20.00 USD for every new account created.
2.) MONITOR the chat and REPORTED Spam and BAN those accounts, once the bot creators realize that it will cost them more money then what they are making, they will stop.
Some of the spammers are running hundreds of accounts I am sure, and just think of the revenue you would create from a spammer that has to re-create 20-30- even 50 accounts per day. $$$$$$
I agree...
Bots first took over black lake, then domination, then sharandar, now... the world!
They need to be hit hard.
Mind you all the items the bots bring to the game did cause me to spend more zen to convert to astral to buy their bot items to upgrade my gear. (come on like a guys name on auction house repeating 100 times with x99 of items was made legit)
If the bots were all gone, upgrading our gears would have taken so much longer.
Zen purchases for blood rubies would have been much higher.
The company would have made more money in the long run.
The power creep that is killing potential new players would not have existed as much.
The wall of OMG I CANT WIN IN PVP would not have existed as it does not for all lower lvl players 60 and under.
Something has to be done... It would be nice if they asked us what we wanted instead of just hammering us in the face.
Some of you will say, "At least we can still do professions in game". This is not the point.
The point is we suffer because of bots, in every way possible.
Perhaps we can stop the botters by avoiding names in the auction house that we feel are tied to botters.
Then again, everyone wants the cheapest items so I doubt that will happen.
It's a vicious cycle... never ending..... (pulls hair out)
Living proof that the demographic of this game has an average IQ of about 50...
NO need to insult others and start a flame war..
We don't need this discussion shut down.
Our voices need to be heard.
This is why knee-jerk reactions by this company happen. Poor, uninformed comments that do nothing to solve the problem and justify bad changes to the game.
Don't know why you felt offended by this, but I apologize to you then.
Ummm... yeah. College Graduate (3.6 GPA) Tested at 132 I.Q. AND I run my OWN succussful business. Hmm. Your statement just showed yours. TY
Mod 7/8 had better be something really special to tempt me and others like me back to the game. Somehow I doubt it though.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
But once again, I'm not tech-savvy, what would I know about how difficult it is to detect (most of the) programmed AI interference in a game like Neverwinter?
The new line seems to be ok, it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but here are some sweets and now shut up. If ppl keep complaining, there comes the 'we will look into it' and if the angry ungrateful mob decides to stop playing or keeps complaining, you will get a 'we understand your problems and we are working on it'.
Thing is, DONT do it in the first place. Why do you think that ppl are complaining, like that? Bc it is the last step into the wrong direction, to destroy every legit way to make a decent ammount of AD/ RP in game.
Up to Mod 5, if ppl asked me, if it is possible to begin NW and get decent gear in a reasonable ammount of time, I said yes, but dont expect to have the same gear as a beta player in one or two month.
Here are the changes in MOD 6:
-dragon hoard nerf.
-DD nerf.
-salvage nerf.
-leadership nerf.
-xp nerf.
-overflow XP nerf.
Do they think that ppl say 'well there is no reasonable way to get RP/ AD ingame, lets spent a few thousand dollars to get good gear', really. It was ok for some ppl I know, to boost their gear with reasonable payments, but there was something to boost. Now you are either a beta player with a crapload of farmed AD, willing to pay thousands of dollars or you have a lvl 25 leadership army or you will never get decent gear (legit).
Numbers are going down and they wonder why, really? Ppl play to progress their char/ gear. Now they took every reasonable way to progress and ppl stop playing, thats it.
BTW, if there is more activity ingame after this changes its not bc there are more players, but bc there are scripted bots logging in to do leadership.
Because of bot issues, developers are, gradually, decreasing the AD based trades - many items, as armor, artifacts and so on now are picked linked to character or account, meaning you need actually play to equip and upgrade a character. On the other hand, the not linked items have, more and more, lower prices to sale... Enchantments are exceptions, and achieve high prices 'cause of this.
In a close future, I believe even "mark of potency" will be sold by Zen and/or lockbox coins (as coalescent protection) and no more by AD...
Bot is killing the Neverwinter (player to player) market.
Because <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players over was main priority.
Before anyone accuses me of bot armies, I have a single account with two characters, one of them not even at the level they can do professions (and my lvl 70 main)
Please, man.. Feel the irony..
Oooh, fun! I would counter by calling you the "brutally ignorant" one, but I will allow your posts in this thread to speak for your intellect.
As for zone chat's role in the 2+ year botting problem in this game: Zone chat is basically THE reason that botters exist. It is where they hock their wares for something far more valuable than AD, RP, or Zen....cold, hard cash. Without that free advertising channel, botters in this game would be limited to a handful of fanatics bent solely on increasing their personal power in game. A problem yes, but nothing more than a nuisance in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that worries the big botters about this change is the possibility that real players will disappear.
As with many things, Cryptic decided to kill a fly with a sledgehammer....then watched helplessly as the fly quickly flew away unscathed. And - ooops! - the cat is dead! Que sera, sera.